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[Report] Canucks to part ways with Judd Bracket

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-Vintage Canuck-

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My guess would be Judd knows the better picks were his (maybe even the ones they never made too) and probably feels he has earned more say

I highly doubt, that, if he was just a tag along he would be that confident

He probably feels in hindsight I have pushed all the right guys that you picked and maybe didn't

Didn't Weisbrod come from Boston and have connections with JB?

In those videos, Weisbrod sure looked like the typical company yes man :)

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7 hours ago, Darkstar said:

Let me explain further. If the Canucks had 1 or 2 of those contracts, it wouldn't be as bad. You do need veteran depth players to fill out a roster. The fact that the team has Beagle, Sutter, Roussel, and Eriksson making over 3 million a year, all of whom can barely crack the top 9 of the roster, is an "albatross". It would be a different scenario if the Canucks had a top 3 PK in the league, as some of the above mentioned players are known to be half-decent defensively. But the Canucks are paying a premium for the 16th best PK in the league. I can't think of many teams in the league that pay as much as the Canucks to fill out the fourth line. 

 

It's worrisome because it feels as though the team doesn't learn from this, and that they will sign another 4th line guy to a 3-4 million dollar contract once these are moved out, instead of re-signing the key pieces on the team.

Rousel had a down year, could probably stem from having to start the season late from his knee surgery, but the year before, he was defintely worth the 3 million for his production and his overall play. I think he can have a pass

 

Beagle, production isn't there (no suprise) but when he's out of the lineup, he defintely affects the team. If you guys recall, Horvat mightily struggled without Beagle in the lineup because he was jumping over the boards every other shift to take every other faceoff which affected his scoring due to fatigue. Thats where Beagle's value is, he's the teams 2nd best faceoff guy and takes the load out of Bo's shoulders and is a more than competent 4th liner. Is $3 million a lot? Its on the high side yes, but its not ridiculous but having him in the lineup affects the teams chances of winning by just simply keeping all the centres in their usual role

 

Sutter on the other hand, yes the guy is overpaid and I hope he gets traded. He hasn't built enough equity there to know hes an integral part of this team because he's been injured so much the past few seasons. 4.4 million is a lot to pay for a guy thats not noticeable 80% of the time, thats not very good defensively when hes brought in to be a "shut down" centre and is very inconsistent offensively

 

I don't really need to get into Eriksson, everyone knows hes grossly overpaid

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2 hours ago, Curmudgeon said:

Just connecting dots here, but if Mike Gillis is hired as President or Czar or Pope in New Jersey, he may hire Brackett to something more than he was here. Don't forget that it was Gillis who hired Brackett here in the first place.

 

And I wouldn't be sure about Biech, unless the scouting staff has embraced analytics as their primary scouting tools. Somehow, I don't see Benning turning the department over to the computer guys.

I agree, I like Biech's insight, but a majority of CDCers if they put in the time, can probably do what Biech does. Benning would be an idiot to hire an armchair QB so to speak

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Just remember Canucks scouts have an internal rating system. Scouts just rate players with pre made categories. 

Give each box a number 1-10 factory line scouting system. 

 

Im sure Canucks scouting will be ( A ) ok.

Edited by HockeyHarry
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2 hours ago, DeNiro said:

Futa would be a good choice.

 

Responsible for drafting current Canucks Pearson and Toffoli. Also nabbed the Blackhawks current stud Kubalik in the 7th round.

Haha no way Futa comes here to be Bennings puppet 

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You guys are kidding yourselves. If you watch the mic'd ups from our all draft years half the time Benning doesn't even know what the prospect looks like or their stats. Brackett's been the one feeding these information and directing who to draft. (Which is what a scout director should be doing, nothing wrong with that). But with him leaving, this will be a loss. 

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I liked Judd, thought his late round (3rd-5th round) picks were solid and turned into players who are or will play in the NHL. 
 

I think Judd is confident that he could have gotten a few other picks right in past drafts where Benning decided to act in a different direction. Ollie over Mathew for example. McCn over Pastarnak. 
 

But I think when all is said, Benning is the person who came in and totally restructured and restored our scouting department. Jim laid the foundation for a scouting department that proved to be successful after some trial and errors. 
 

Virtanen pick is trending in the right direction and there’s still a lot of untapped potential there. Benning also picked Boeser which he was a big fan of. He picked Mcan over Pasta so there’s one he missed. But mcan still turned into a serviceable player(kinda messed up his development). Then he picked  Ollie which made sense.. we literally had no d prospects at that time. But that was a great learning experience that we should  always pick BPA and noT for a positional need, but even When picking for position he missed on Charlie Mccavoy. Ollie could turn out but for now you don’t build your defence around him as originally planned. then we get two straight jackpots in Elias and Quinn. Now we have Vasily in the mix that looks like he can play. 
 

The scouting culture has been set by Benning and it’s been improved over the years. This culture didn’t just benefit the team, it also benefited the scouting people through better job prospects like internal promotions ( ie in Judds case) and future job prospects  (ie. Judds case again).  Not a bad culture if you ask me. 


 

 

Edited by Setyoureyesontheprize
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11 hours ago, 24K PureCool said:

You can't blame JB if what he said is true. No GM in the league would give up control in the 1st and 2nd round. If Judd wants full control even in the first round, he would have to become the GM and I doubt any team is desperate enough to give him that position. Maybe Buffalo in a year might. 

It’s not abnormal for a GM to give up control of the scouting department. Yzerman let Al Murray take full control of the scouting department for Tampa. Same with Trevor Timmins for Montreal.

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10 hours ago, theo5789 said:

How dare that advisor not see in the future that their pick would be riddled with injuries after the pick was made.

Yeah, and Tkachuk an All star

 

There is always opportunity cost, and that is a huge cost to pay.

Edited by Pete M
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6 hours ago, gmen81 said:

Haha no way Futa comes here to be Bennings puppet 

Yep, there won’t be any top candidates coming to have a title of Head of Scouting but actually having even the day to day activities of the department run by Benning and Weisbrod. (Like Benning publicly said he was going to do months ago).

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Benning worked his ass off to get himself in a position to be GM of a hockey team and Bracket wanted to skip all the work in the trenches and be the man making the decisions. At least the draft decisions. No matter how good that person is you can't allow insubordination. There has to be a chain of command. Like Benning said I don't think there is going to be an NHL team that is going to give Bracket what he wants.. unless he isn't a scout but assistant GM or GM.

 

I am not huge Benning fan either but you can't allow what Bracket tried to do. It's not good leadership to hand over autonomy to someone in a department that you yourself came from. It shows weakness and will be your undoing especially if Bracket in a few years went to Aquilini and said make me GM or I am leaving look at the drafting I did. This was all me.

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I just listened to J.B.’s interview regarding Judd’s departure. J.B. sounds very sincere. It is clear that as a former director of amateur scouting himself

he takes drafts personally. This could turn out good or bad for the Canucks. However, if he identified Judd as a talent and promoted him throughout the ranks, I am confident that J.B. can find another competent guy to fill the role.

 

Here are what I think are J.B’s biases:

 

- he doesn’t seem to know much about goalies

 

- He likes skilled D like Hughes and Rathbone, he does not hold their small size against them

 

- He loves physicality, size and skating for forwards, he does not have a problem adding skill to the team even if some size are lacking, for instance Hoglander. However overall he favours a tough physical team over what Montreal seems to be building.

 

These are the biases that are expected to continue or even amplify when a new director of amateur scouting arrives.

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1 hour ago, shiznak said:

It’s not abnormal for a GM to give up control of the scouting department. Yzerman let Al Murray take full control of the scouting department for Tampa. Same with Trevor Timmins for Montreal.

Tampa's drafting in the late rounds...one word...."outstanding!"

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2 hours ago, shiznak said:

It’s not abnormal for a GM to give up control of the scouting department. Yzerman let Al Murray take full control of the scouting department for Tampa. Same with Trevor Timmins for Montreal.

Tampa Bay has a rating system. They rate all the players based off their own algorithms and then pick the best player available. It is very similar to what Vancouver has been doing. 

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7 hours ago, spook007 said:

And hammer meets head.... 

If Benning has to take the rap for everything, surely he’d want to participate in the discussions, and have the final say... in particular regarding issues, where he feels most comfortable

 

If you were a builder by trade, you hardly let somebody else build your house, without having the final say....

Incredible it’s so hard to understand for some...

Great post, Bracket was a part time scout when Benning was hired in 2014? Benning has always made final say and for Bracket to want this control says a lot about his personality? Bracket has only been head of scouting since what 2016??? Nothing will change in the drafting department as Jim Benning has always had the final say since day one and will continue this amazing drafting record...
Thanks Jim Benning ....Look previous 20 years before Benning  lots of years we drafted and nobody turned pro...

 

Bennings first year drafting in Vancouver = Virtanen - McCann - Demko - Tryamkin - Forsling -  NHL players drafted  2014, 5 players - 

Go to Hocket Database-- Draft - Shows every year.... 

Jim has developed a big pool of prospects in 6 years...Future is bright and exciting...

We only had a few prospects when Benning took over..

 

 

 

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11 hours ago, theo5789 said:

So both prospects were highly regarded, is that a surprise? Benning has praised DeLorme for being the persistent presence towards Pettersson. So yes perhaps Benning may have wanted Glass (likely being able to see him more than he could've seen EP personally) and he was the "BPA" at our pick anyway. By the time the draft came, Benning was fully on board with EP and it showed on the draft floor (pointing at him and even attempting to trade down past Glass, but didn't want to fall too far to miss their target altogether). If Benning really wanted Glass that badly, he would've had him. He's the GM with the final call, he would've had his way and he did because he and the draft team wanted Pettersson at the draft.

Benning always had final say and  especially with 1st and 2nd rounds picks. Benning wanted Pettersson just was shocked he was at #5..  Benning made that good decision on Pettersson..

Just like Quinn Hughes he was there for Vancouver at #7 no brainer thank the Wings and other teams between 3-6.  Hughes should not of gone past 5th overall.

Edited by wildcam
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9 hours ago, spook007 said:

Yes funny how they never bring that up.... 

yup. But now the army of Benning haters has a new shiny toy. Its pretty sad the amount of pure hate thrown the guys way in this market. I wish they would just shut up but its a free country. 

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26 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

yup. But now the army of Benning haters has a new shiny toy. Its pretty sad the amount of pure hate thrown the guys way in this market. I wish they would just shut up but its a free country. 

Agree 100%
Worst part is they would still complain if he gave us the cup.
Don’t have problem with different view points, as different perspectives are always important. 
But this constant Benning bashing is nothing short of disgusting. 

Pathetic really... 

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