[Report] Canucks to part ways with Judd Bracket

[Fred65]

2 hours ago, butters said:

you've met and evaluated lots of scouts I am sure

Nope it's just normal like every other profession, some good lots of mediocrity and some out right bad. It's a bell curve. Vcr has 16 amateur scouts but there was only one Director of amateur scouting

Edited June 7, 2020 by Fred65

[IBatch]

7 hours ago, aGENT said:

Who knows for sure but the guys in the organization? It's certainly the story you've been sold by the anti-Benning portions of the media. That said, I don't think either was 'against' rebuilding. They could both see the writing on the wall.

 

But Linden was the one making statements like 'unfair to the Sedins' and since his departure, Benning has arguably made some of his better moves.

 

That reality would strongly suggest you've got the general sentiment backwards.

Definitely looking forward to a tell all in the future.  Whatever the rift was Linden will and should be forgiven any wrong doing.   Ownership and management used his as human pr shield which was a little shameful don’t you think?

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, Fred65 said:

Nope it's just normal like every other profession, some good lots of mediocrity and some out right bad. It's a bell curve. Vcr has 16 amateur scouts but there was only one Director of amateur scouting

I doubt any pro scouts are “ out right bad”.    At least none that have put the time in and aren’t granted a job post career (and those guys are still pros too).  Much has been said about scouting EP.   Who was it exactly that insisted they should look at him in the first place and insisted?  And who actually got the recognition?

[Gawdzukes]

The amount of tools on this site losing their minds and criticizing management is over the top stupid. CDC is really losing its credibility. 

[Junkyard Dog]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

I doubt any pro scouts are “ out right bad”.    At least none that have put the time in and aren’t granted a job post career (and those guys are still pros too).  Much has been said about scouting EP.   Who was it exactly that insisted they should look at him in the first place and insisted?  And who actually got the recognition?

Delorme was according to Benning the first guy hard for Petey and Gradin was to follow.

[aGENT]

2 hours ago, IBatch said:

Definitely looking forward to a tell all in the future.  Whatever the rift was Linden will and should be forgiven any wrong doing.   Ownership and management used his as human pr shield which was a little shameful don’t you think?

Yes and no. It was pretty obvious that was going to be part of his role IMO.

 

If it wasn't to him...

Edited June 8, 2020 by aGENT

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, Junkyard Dog said:

Delorme was according to Benning the first guy hard for Petey and Gradin was to follow.

Inge Hammarstrom discovered EP and insisted the Canucks take a look at him first and urged the them to pick him from the start...he doesn’t get the recognition but he’s the guy we should all be thanking.   Also the same guy that had to push PHI into taking Forsberg at 6 in 1991, and urged to take Jagr too - instead they picked Ricci.  ... as a player he was one of the first ever guys to come from the European leagues (TO I think..)... his track record is pretty darn good.  Just glad Delmore was convinced- but it was not Delmore at the start. 

 

2 hours ago, IBatch said:

I doubt any pro scouts are “ out right bad”.    At least none that have put the time in and aren’t granted a job post career (and those guys are still pros too).  Much has been said about scouting EP.   Who was it exactly that insisted they should look at him in the first place and insisted?  And who actually got the recognition?

It was a bit of luck at that.   EP like Lafleur is completely self taught - no skill coaches, a cerebral player who learned on his own - grew up in a small town 100kms from Timra (where Inge lives) and playing second tier is where he first became noticed by Hammarstrom.  We as an organization played it cool.   We should also be grateful we didn’t get the first or second overall pick that year as I’m not sure we’d have passed on one of the big two (Hirschier/Patrick).   Lotto ball Karma.   THN covered this well a few years ago - can google the article. 

Edited June 8, 2020 by IBatch

[Ballisticsports.]

2 hours ago, IBatch said:

Inge Hammarstrom discovered EP and insisted the Canucks take a look at him first and urged the them to pick him from the start...he doesn’t get the recognition but he’s the guy we should all be thanking.   Also the same guy that had to push PHI into taking Forsberg at 6 in 1991, and urged to take Jagr too - instead they picked Ricci.  ... as a player he was one of the first ever guys to come from the European leagues (TO I think..)... his track record is pretty darn good.  Just glad Delmore was convinced- but it was not Delmore at the start. 

 

It was a bit of luck at that.   EP like Lafleur is completely self taught - no skill coaches, a cerebral player who learned on his own - grew up in a small town 100kms from Timra (where Inge lives) and playing second tier is where he first became noticed by Hammarstrom.  We as an organization played it cool.   We should also be grateful we didn’t get the first or second overall pick that year as I’m not sure we’d have passed on one of the big two (Hirschier/Patrick).   Lotto ball Karma.   THN covered this well a few years ago - can google the article. 

I believe this as well.

Delorme just happened to be in the same country and room to talk and report what Inge had shown and told him

[butters]

6 hours ago, Fred65 said:

Nope it's just normal like every other profession, some good lots of mediocrity and some out right bad. It's a bell curve. Vcr has 16 amateur scouts but there was only one Director of amateur scouting

that's an organisational principal. Even if they were all equally good, you still only have one leader. 

 

And given the nature of this career, I don't know that is similar enough to other professions. Each profession has its own minimum standards. 

[IBatch]

8 hours ago, ba;;isticsports said:

I believe this as well.

Delorme just happened to be in the same country and room to talk and report what Inge had shown and told him

In an odd way we should be thanking Ulf  Dahlen for being close friends with Inge,  and then having a son who played on the same team and was good friends with EP that happened to end up playing in Timra together.    It was Dahlen Inge went to watch, but it was EP he ended up picking up that “special” vibe from right away.  He used playing against Wayne Gretzky as an example of how he exuded a lot of the same “special” and how he was able to spot it.   He wasn’t ranked that high because of where he was playing and because of being so darn skinny.    In a re-draft Makar is probably his stiffest competition.    Love that he “learned center” at the NHL level - something he’s still working on but seriously wow this kid is dynamite.  Also he reached out to the Canucks and had to get them to come to Sweden/Timra to check him out a couple of times.   Not sure at which point he became their guy if still available at 5, or what they would have done if Hirshier or Patrick were also available...a perfect storm of circumstances for us - again lotto ball Karma.    Same with Hughes but to a lesser degree.   For me this made up for OJ.  

[Fred65]

Inge Hammerstrom, I can't find him in the list of Canucks scouts

 

https://www.nhl.com/canucks/team/coaches-and-staff 

?

I must be behind the times

[Ballisticsports.]

29 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

Inge Hammerstrom, I can't find him in the list of Canucks scouts

 

https://www.nhl.com/canucks/team/coaches-and-staff

?

I must be behind the times

Wikipedia even mentions him as a scout as well

[Fred65]

29 minutes ago, ba;;isticsports said:

Wikipedia even mention,  him as a scout as well

Yeah I noticed the Wikipediamake  mention, the problem with Wiki is you never know how uptodate it might be. I thought Vcr would have listed him,maybe a part timer ?

[theo5789]

2 hours ago, Fred65 said:

Yeah I noticed the Wikipediamake  mention, the problem with Wiki is you never know how uptodate it might be. I thought Vcr would have listed him,maybe a part timer ?

https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/1581/inge-hammarstrom

 

This seems to show that he stopped being a scout after the 2017-2018 season. And before the crowd that suggests that we are firing everyone involved with EP, the man was 70 years old at that time, so it's very plausible that he's retired now (or isn't a full timer anymore). If he retired, then it was a nice parting retirement gift that he gave us with EP.

 

With that said, surely the scouting system goes beyond the scouts listed as even they probably have branches of connections in different areas to help gather information from as many books and crannies of the world. So if Inge is still watching games, surely our current scouts could still give him a call and see if there's anyone popping up of interest in his area (but of course now that he's not tied to a club, any team could give him a call technically now).

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, theo5789 said:

https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/1581/inge-hammarstrom

 

This seems to show that he stopped being a scout after the 2017-2018 season. And before the crowd that suggests that we are firing everyone involved with EP, the man was 70 years old at that time, so it's very plausible that he's retired now (or isn't a full timer anymore). If he retired, then it was a nice parting retirement gift that he gave us with EP.

 

With that said, surely the scouting system goes beyond the scouts listed as even they probably have branches of connections in different areas to help gather information from as many books and crannies of the world. So if Inge is still watching games, surely our current scouts could still give him a call and see if there's anyone popping up of interest in his area (but of course now that he's not tied to a club, any team could give him a call technically now).

You’ve pretty much nailed it.  He used to scout for PHI - and is responsible for them picking Forsberg at 6 as well as adamantly telling them to go for Jagr despite him basically telling everyone he wouldn’t play for them (and secretly telling PIT he’d play with Mario so which we all know is what happened)...they picked Ricci (and sent both over for Lindros).    Guess we were lucky...have tried a few times to share this information and got blasted (NO it was Delmore!)  ... nice to see some people looking deeper into it - nothing wrong with JB comments - but it does show that there can be more behind the story and both Delmore and Brackett deserve props too / but neither “discovered” him.    
 

And Very likely never would have without the awesome tip.   He was a little off the board at five,   But they certainly did their homework and kept it under wraps.   One of the better scouting success stories we’ve ever had.  I for one was shocked when we took him.  At the time there was limited information about him and the draft as a whole it was quite underwhelming- no “franchise” or super hyped guys ...  Nolan Patrick so far really isn’t too far from his namesake Patrick Stefan at this point ...Hirschier is ho hum for a first overall...Makar has just had a fantastic rookie year..as a 20 year old.   Heiskanen is looking very solid too.   But EP is the “Alien” and out of all of them looks to have the chops to challenge for an Art Ross in his prime ... and he’s ours!

[theo5789]

12 hours ago, IBatch said:

You’ve pretty much nailed it.  He used to scout for PHI - and is responsible for them picking Forsberg at 6 as well as adamantly telling them to go for Jagr despite him basically telling everyone he wouldn’t play for them (and secretly telling PIT he’d play with Mario so which we all know is what happened)...they picked Ricci (and sent both over for Lindros).    Guess we were lucky...have tried a few times to share this information and got blasted (NO it was Delmore!)  ... nice to see some people looking deeper into it - nothing wrong with JB comments - but it does show that there can be more behind the story and both Delmore and Brackett deserve props too / but neither “discovered” him.    
 

And Very likely never would have without the awesome tip.   He was a little off the board at five,   But they certainly did their homework and kept it under wraps.   One of the better scouting success stories we’ve ever had.  I for one was shocked when we took him.  At the time there was limited information about him and the draft as a whole it was quite underwhelming- no “franchise” or super hyped guys ...  Nolan Patrick so far really isn’t too far from his namesake Patrick Stefan at this point ...Hirschier is ho hum for a first overall...Makar has just had a fantastic rookie year..as a 20 year old.   Heiskanen is looking very solid too.   But EP is the “Alien” and out of all of them looks to have the chops to challenge for an Art Ross in his prime ... and he’s ours!

I agree that DeLorme didn't discover him, but Benning has said he was the loud voice that brought EP to their attention. The thing is Benning always credits his scouting staff for the work they do. He often says "we", when they get the player they targetted. Scouts are usually in the field doing their jobs, so they don't report directly to Benning, but DeLorme must've been the "lucky" guy to get the info, however he pushed hard to get EP's name in the conversation. Surely every scout will think the guy they are scouting could/should be the pick they should go for. DeLorme had to go with the info he had and stick to his guns on one guy.

 

So the crowd that is trying to pin all the good picks on Brackett need to realize it's a group effort and it's more complicated than just one guy getting the job done. Benning has praised this group, hell even Brackett does. So with this in mind, with Benning at the helm and supposedly having too much of a footprint in this department, perhaps he is doing something right with this group. Brackett was a good piece here, but he wanted a bigger role and to take away from what Benning has developed. With the way the media has propped up Brackett here though, he's going to have big shoes to fill wherever he goes.

 

Though aside from Patrick, I think I would be happy with any of the other 4 players and wouldn't be too upset if I was one of those teams and "missed out" on EP.

[Ghostsof1915]

Delorme used to be our chief scout. And during some of the worst drafting this franchise has known. I'm more curious how he's kept his job all these years. 

[theo5789]

8 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Delorme used to be our chief scout. And during some of the worst drafting this franchise has known. I'm more curious how he's kept his job all these years. 

DeLorme is still the chief amateur scout through this period of success (just not the director). Perhaps he didn't have good direction before (which Benning brought) or maybe he's a good scout, but not good at running the show.

[Ghostsof1915]

1 minute ago, theo5789 said:

DeLorme is still the chief amateur scout through this period of success (just not the director). Perhaps he didn't have good direction before (which Benning brought) or maybe he's a good scout, but not good at running the show.

That's what I'm curious about as well. 

[FairPM]

To play devils advocate... Maybe the gm in power didn't make good picks? Or the quantifiable system benning implemented made the difference? The Delorme mystery is a good one...