[Report] Canucks to part ways with Judd Bracket

[Maddogy]

If J.B. recognized Judd Brackett's gift and promoted him to head Canucks' amateur scouting department, wouldn't he be able to find a capable replacement for Judd Brackett?

 

If Judd Brackett is one of the best in the business, why didn't 29 other NHL teams fire their directors of amateur scouting and hire Judd?

[Ballisticsports.]

2 minutes ago, Maddogy said:

If J.B. recognized Judd Brackett's gift and promoted him to head Canucks' amateur scouting department, wouldn't he be able to find a capable replacement for Judd Brackett?

 

If Judd Brackett is one of the best in the business, why didn't 29 other NHL teams fire their directors of amateur scouting and hire Judd?

Linden hired Benning and promoted Brackett

[Ballisticsports.]

Benning was hired by Linden for the GM job and is now overseeing Lindens job

It appears Benning and (un)Weisbrod  now want to oversee Bracketts past job too

They both should just concentrate on the job they have imo, instead of one that they may both find more interesting than their own !

Good management requires team mentality as well (and not just for the players), concentrate doing your own job and excel at what you were hired for and trust your team to do their jobs

If they hire a replacement for Brackett, that person will be taking it for the money and title mostly, till they become bored or disenchanted 

I think someone within gets the job, but will be basically the same job they have, but with a new title and pay thrown in and the less important boring part the other 2 don't want to do

[tas]

31 minutes ago, ba;;isticsports said:

Benning was hired by Linden for the GM job and is now overseeing Lindens job

It appears Benning and (un)Weisbrod  now want to oversee Bracketts past job too

They both should just concentrate on the job they have imo, instead of one that they may both find more interesting than their own !

Good management requires team mentality as well (and not just for the players), concentrate doing your own job and excel at what you were hired for and trust your team to do their jobs

If they hire a replacement for Brackett, that person will be taking it for the money and title mostly, till they become bored or disenchanted 

I think someone within gets the job, but will be basically the same job they have, but with a new title and pay thrown in and the less important boring part the other 2 don't want to do

what do you suppose a general manager generally manages?

 

benning is in charge of hockey ops and every director or department lead therein reports to him. like he said earlier about brackett, there is no director of amateur scouting who has autonomy over the scouting staff. it's not how it works. 

[Elias Pettersson]

Judd Brackett was hired by Mike Gillis back in 2008.  Our drafting sucked until Benning was hired in 2014.  I highly doubt that was a coincidence...

[Ballisticsports.]

1 hour ago, tas said:

what do you suppose a general manager generally manages?

 

benning is in charge of hockey ops and every director or department lead therein reports to him. like he said earlier about brackett, there is no director of amateur scouting who has autonomy over the scouting staff. it's not how it works. 

I honestly don't know  fully what a Gm duties are tas?

I guess i believed what i read from these GM's 

I suppose i should consider your opinion as well ?

 

Yzerman

My philosophy is, unless I want to go out there (scouting), which I don't think is possible in the game today to be a general manager and go fly around the world and watch all these players and decide on who we are going to pick at the draft, that to me it's just meddling on my part and just confusing things,'' Yzerman said.

"For me to go and watch a player once or twice or read about a player and decide he is better than another player, I'm just throwing darts and I don't want to do that.''

Armstrong

The model varies from table to table, but most teams put the running of the draft table in the hands of the director of amateur scouting and/or the assistant GM, while the GM takes a step back to let his troops conduct the business of restocking the prospect shelves.

Having a GM make selections based on seeing a young player perhaps once or twice as opposed to the 15 to 20 times an amateur scout will see the player "is the most dangerous scouting of all," St. Louis GM Doug Armstrong said.

Sometimes during draft day, Armstrong will refer back to a comment made by a scout during earlier meetings, but in general, he will let his staff -- led by director of amateur scouting Bill Armstrong -- run the show.

Chayka

“It really is their show,” said Coyotes general manager John Chayka, whose team has seven picks in this year’s draft, including five among the first 74. “Those guys work all year and they fly a lot, drive a lot of miles, stay in a lot of hotels, make a lot of sacrifices. Seeing their players play at the NHL level is rewarding for them. I don’t do the scouting like they do so this is their time to take the reins.”

[tas]

9 minutes ago, ba;;isticsports said:

I honestly don't know  fully what a Gm duties are tas?

I guess i believed what i read from these GM's 

I suppose i should consider your opinion as well ?

 

Yzerman

My philosophy is, unless I want to go out there (scouting), which I don't think is possible in the game today to be a general manager and go fly around the world and watch all these players and decide on who we are going to pick at the draft, that to me it's just meddling on my part and just confusing things,'' Yzerman said.

"For me to go and watch a player once or twice or read about a player and decide he is better than another player, I'm just throwing darts and I don't want to do that.''

Armstrong

The model varies from table to table, but most teams put the running of the draft table in the hands of the director of amateur scouting and/or the assistant GM, while the GM takes a step back to let his troops conduct the business of restocking the prospect shelves.

Having a GM make selections based on seeing a young player perhaps once or twice as opposed to the 15 to 20 times an amateur scout will see the player "is the most dangerous scouting of all," St. Louis GM Doug Armstrong said.

Sometimes during draft day, Armstrong will refer back to a comment made by a scout during earlier meetings, but in general, he will let his staff -- led by director of amateur scouting Bill Armstrong -- run the show.

Chayka

“It really is their show,” said Coyotes general manager John Chayka, whose team has seven picks in this year’s draft, including five among the first 74. “Those guys work all year and they fly a lot, drive a lot of miles, stay in a lot of hotels, make a lot of sacrifices. Seeing their players play at the NHL level is rewarding for them. I don’t do the scouting like they do so this is their time to take the reins.”

right, and yet none of that was in question. my comment, and everything that I've seen reported or discussed by those in the know, alludes to the fact that the issue was over control of the scouting STAFF, not the draft table. my interpretation of things from what I've read is that brackett wanted at least a strong say or maybe even complete autonomy over the employment and deployment of the scouting staff, which is unreasonable when benning is responsible for personnel.

Edited July 17, 2020 by tas

[Ballisticsports.]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Judd Brackett was hired by Mike Gillis back in 2008.  Our drafting sucked until Benning was hired in 2014.  I highly doubt that was a coincidence...

Hmm

2008 Bracket was part time with lil influence

2014 Isn't that the year Linden Promoted Bracket and hired Benning?

Isn't it possible they all did their jobs well, but now one has all of them?

 

Not directed at you, but, why do so many on here pretend to be fans, and then as soon as someone is gone dis them?

 

I am off for the weekend on an Adventure motorcycle ride, Looking forward to the play-ins that we

 

[Ballisticsports.]

1 minute ago, tas said:

right, and yet none of that was in question. my comment, and everything that I've seen reported or discussed by those in the know, is that the issue was over control of the scouting STAFF, not the draft table. my interpretation of things from what I've read is that brackett wanted at least a strong say or maybe even complete autonomy over the employment and deployment of the scouting staff, which is unreasonable when benning is responsible for personnel.

Ok i don't pretend to know everything

I just know it is important to have trust in your staff and let them do their job and have a good team  enviroment, Benning and Weisbrod have stated wanting to do more than there own job , something the other GM are not interfering with, If The Canucks sucked at the Draft, then i guess Brackett or Benning would have had to make changes to the staff

So my take is,

Either we were sucking at the drafting and needed to make changes

or

It was personality or powerplay or meddling issues

[tas]

2 minutes ago, ba;;isticsports said:

Ok i don't pretend to know everything

I just know it is important to have trust in your staff and let them do their job and have a good team  enviroment, Benning and Weisbrod have stated wanting to do more than there own job , something the other GM are not interfering with, If The Canucks sucked at the Draft, then i guess Brackett or Benning would have had to make changes to the staff

So my take is,

Either we were sucking at the drafting and needed to make changes

or

It was personality or powerplay or meddling issues

it's a workplace, these things happen everyday. brackett was probably a Linden loyalist, and it's only natural to vilify your boss. if you've never witnessed it, you've never been employed. 

 

everything is going to be ok. 

[Ballisticsports.]

5 minutes ago, tas said:

it's a workplace, these things happen everyday. brackett was probably a Linden loyalist, and it's only natural to vilify your boss. if you've never witnessed it, you've never been employed. 

 

everything is going to be ok. 

Yes, I've seen how it affects the office when a boss hires someone he trusts, then stabs that boss in the back to get his job and goes after others job and that does not create a good environment if you have experienced that one as I have (outside of Canucks)

 

If Brackett was a Linden loyalist , why wasn't Benning?

Linden hired him?

 

Sure everything may be ok and i never said it wouldn't, just sharing info  picking up info and opinions.

It has no affect on the operation of the Canucks, hearing peoples opinions is interesting to me, just like when talking to friends, people who are overbearing with no respect for others having different opinions, don't have friends for long that want to talk to them

[tas]

1 minute ago, ba;;isticsports said:

Yes, I've seen how it affects the office when a boss hires someone he trusts, then stabs that boss in the back to get his job and goes after others job and that does not create a good environment if you have experienced that one as I have (outside of Canucks)

 

If Brackett was a Linden loyalist , why wasn't Benning?

Linden hired him?

 

Sure everything may be ok and i never said it wouldn't, just sharing info  picking up info and opinions.

It has no affect on the operation of the Canucks, hearing peoples opinions is interesting to me, just like when talking to friends, people who are overbearing with no respect for others having different opinions, don't have friends for long that want to talk to them

that's quite the narrative you've woven in your imagination in light of how little info we actually have. 

[Ballisticsports.]

1 minute ago, tas said:

that's quite the narrative you've woven in your imagination in light of how little info we actually have. 

What of your narrative tas ?

We all have Very little information, with no insider information and why i am not so steadfast in saying i am right and anyone who disagrees with me is wrong, You asked about my employment and shared 1st hand what i witnessed 1st hand and how it affected moral and  created turmoil and lack of respect that we previously had (Maybe this is happening, maybe it isn't)

 

In the long run none of our opinions matter and things will go on, we are just commenting on the little info we have and observe and form opinions on

I am not butt hurt , maybe Benning is a jerk power tripper, or a nice guy, maybe Benning is that?

 

Anyways I am off, enjoy your weekend

[tas]

17 minutes ago, ba;;isticsports said:

What of your narrative tas ?

We all have Very little information, with no insider information and why i am not so steadfast in saying i am right and anyone who disagrees with me is wrong, You asked about my employment and shared 1st hand what i witnessed 1st hand and how it affected moral and  created turmoil and lack of respect that we previously had (Maybe this is happening, maybe it isn't)

 

In the long run none of our opinions matter and things will go on, we are just commenting on the little info we have and observe and form opinions on

I am not butt hurt , maybe Benning is a jerk power tripper, or a nice guy, maybe Benning is that?

 

Anyways I am off, enjoy your weekend

maybe I'm just jaded. I came back here after months away, excited for hockey and to discuss it with others, thinking maybe people would be refocused on the positive, but no luck. 

 

i genuinely wonder, if the NHL stopped broadcasting games, but started broadcasting front office meetings instead, would the people here be upset or thrilled?

[coolboarder]

38 minutes ago, tas said:

maybe I'm just jaded. I came back here after months away, excited for hockey and to discuss it with others, thinking maybe people would be refocused on the positive, but no luck. 

 

i genuinely wonder, if the NHL stopped broadcasting games, but started broadcasting front office meetings instead, would the people here be upset or thrilled?

I believe they are already showcase the behind the scene with road to winter classic shows but it doesn't show the management side of thing.  I would love to see some of the management side of things with a TV rights for it outside the game broadcast.  I'd be thrilled to watch that to enhance debates on the forum.  It could have been released at end of the season, after the draft but no team is willing to reveal their strategies to their rival teams or they could have burned their bridge if they find that they were ripping other teams off through trades or burned a certain agents bridge through free agents if they were talking trash on certain agents who was asking for more money or term.  

 

Maybe release some of those management side of things  for a documentary 10 years later for some interesting TV or some of them may no longer work there.  Sometimes the team would release some of the behind the scene of scouting meeting but won't reveal everything on YouTube.

[tas]

5 minutes ago, coolboarder said:

I believe they are already showcase the behind the scene with road to winter classic shows but it doesn't show the management side of thing.  I would love to see some of the management side of things with a TV rights for it outside the game broadcast.  I'd be thrilled to watch that to enhance debates on the forum.  It could have been released at end of the season, after the draft but no team is willing to reveal their strategies to their rival teams or they could have burned their bridge if they find that they were ripping other teams off through trades or burned a certain agents bridge through free agents if they were talking trash on certain agents who was asking for more money or term.  

 

Maybe release some of those management side of things  for a documentary 10 years later for some interesting TV or some of them may no longer work there.  Sometimes the team would release some of the behind the scene of scouting meeting but won't reveal everything on YouTube.

the point was that we should all go back to enthusiastically loving sausage instead of diving into how its made -- it's never a good idea to find out. 

[MoneypuckOverlord]

It was Jim Benning who implemented a new drafting system for our scouts and instructed them in what too look for.  If anything Judd Bracket although is a product of Jim Benning.  That said it really sucks to lose him but maybe he wanted a change?

 

On 7/17/2020 at 12:11 AM, Maddogy said:

If Judd Brackett is one of the best in the business, why didn't 29 other NHL teams fire their directors of amateur scouting and hire Judd?

because it's not a good timing to hire a new amateur scout right now, with Amateur leauges in limbo for next season.  In other words there might not even be any scouting going on for the time being.  I think in the mean time until we know for certain what will happen in the CHL and amateur leagues we won't be in a hurry to replace Judd.   

[mll]

10 hours ago, tas said:

right, and yet none of that was in question. my comment, and everything that I've seen reported or discussed by those in the know, alludes to the fact that the issue was over control of the scouting STAFF, not the draft table. my interpretation of things from what I've read is that brackett wanted at least a strong say or maybe even complete autonomy over the employment and deployment of the scouting staff, which is unreasonable when benning is responsible for personnel.

It was also the process - in his twitter message Brackett writes that an agreement could not be reached on the level of input on staff personnel and the process.

 

Benning's quote also indicates that it's far more about say on who to draft than personnel.

 

Edited July 18, 2020 by mll

[tas]

5 hours ago, mll said:

It was also the process - in his twitter message Brackett writes that an agreement could not be reached on the level of input on staff personnel and the process.

 

Benning's quote also indicates that it's far more about say on who to draft than personnel.

 

either way, tough titty.

 

this is benning's boat to navigate how he sees fit until frank says otherwise. if brackett doesn't wasn't to paddle, let him walk the plank. 

[spook007]

5 hours ago, tas said:

either way, tough titty.

 

this is benning's boat to navigate how he sees fit until frank says otherwise. if brackett doesn't wasn't to paddle, let him walk the plank. 

This...End off...

 

If drafting goes down like a lead balloon over the next 2-3 seasons, maybe Brackett was really the mastermind. If not then maybe just maybe Benning was right, and did what ANY manager would do, if staff are unhappy and don't wanna work the way you as manager, wants them to....

Incredible amount of tears and hero worship going on here without knowing the full ins and outs...