HHOF Class of 2020: Ken Holland, Marian Hossa, Jarome Iginla, Kevin Lowe, Kim St-Pierre, Doug Wilson

[RUPERTKBD]

10 hours ago, Crabcakes said:

 

This guy?  Name's Randy

That's Bo Bandy to you....

 

As far as the inductees, I won't get to much into it other than to say that if I were an NHL GM and I was offered a trade for Almo or Alfie, straight up for Lowe, Hoss or Wilson, I would have been able to say yes fast enough.

[PhillipBlunt]

Hossa’s inclusion is a slap in the face to other players who deserve it way more, like Alfredsson, Fleury, and Mogilny. 
 

His move to the LTIR is a sham. What I’ll always remember about Hossa is how quickly and dramatically he fell to the ice, as if shot, when he and Honey Badger were reaching for the puck as it fell. 

[peaches5]

How the &^@# does Kevin Lowe make the hall of fame. They are making the HOF such a joke.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

Lowe is a fringe HHOFer at best.  But the mess he made in Edmonton (think Gillis being in charge of a rebuild) makes me not to mad at his selection.  DECADES+ of lottery pick finishes and the Coilers aren’t really any further ahead.  Lowe can take a good amount of credit for that. 

[Nave]

Mogilny got snubbed again. He was one of the three first Russian superstars to play in the NHL, along with Federov and Bure. At one time, it wasn't crazy to think he was the best of the three. He's an important player to me because he played for the Canucks and Devils, my two favourite teams. He was such a skilled player

[GB5]

I like all the candidates except Lowe.

 

Sure he was a great defensive defenseman bu so have a lot of other guys that never get looked at and he was a train wreck as a General manager.

 

The h

Hall of Fame seems to have very discretionary criteria for admission.

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

3 hours ago, GarthButcher5 said:

I like all the candidates except Lowe.

 

Sure he was a great defensive defenseman bu so have a lot of other guys that never get looked at and he was a train wreck as a General manager.

 

The h

Hall of Fame seems to have very discretionary criteria for admission.

If we’re talking “defensive” players, I’d much rather have seen Claude Provost finally get into the Hall, instead of Lowe.

 

Provost played over 1000 games, won 9 Cups, appeared in 11 all-star games, won the first ever Masterton (1968), and, had the Selke actually been around in his day, he probably would’ve taken home a handful of them over his career (since he’s arguably one of the greatest “shutdown” players of all time).

 

Provost won the most Cups of anyone not in the Hall. And every other player with 8 or more Cups is already in.

Edited June 26, 2020 by SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME

[wai_lai416]

Mogilny easily better than everyone on that list.. Iginla is great but Almo is easily superior in skill if not for injury easily more points than Iginla.. although Iginla plays with more toughness and leadership.. + Almo have a cup too which seems to be a debate for ppl whether they should be in the HOF or not

[thundernuts]

On 6/24/2020 at 10:12 PM, Squamfan said:

lol piere thurgon not in and he has 1500 points

 

think Fleury not in because of this kind of stuff

 

  

Perhaps.  He’s definitely outspoken, and has had his share of demons and public meltdowns, but on the ice, he was great.  I’d take Fleury in his prime over Turgeon any day.

[King Heffy]

On 6/25/2020 at 10:25 PM, thundernuts said:

Perhaps.  He’s definitely outspoken, and has had his share of demons and public meltdowns, but on the ice, he was great.  I’d take Fleury in his prime over Turgeon any day.

For me the positive impact Fleury had by coming forward against James outweighs the negative political meltdowns.

[thundernuts]

59 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

For me the positive impact Fleury had by coming forward against James outweighs the negative political meltdowns.

Agreed.  

[Kevin Biestra]

On 6/25/2020 at 9:19 AM, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Lowe is a fringe HHOFer at best.  But the mess he made in Edmonton (think Gillis being in charge of a rebuild) makes me not to mad at his selection.  DECADES+ of lottery pick finishes and the Coilers aren’t really any further ahead.  Lowe can take a good amount of credit for that. 

 

I'm open to Kevin Lowe, but he is really just a hair's width above Charlie Huddy, who had a very similar career.

 

Anyway, if we're going to induct based on being part of a dynasty, there is no question in my mind that John Tonelli (Islanders) is way higher on the ladder of people that need to be inducted.  And I would probably induct Butch Goring and perhaps Peter Mahovlich first as well.

 

And don't get me started on other players I would have inducted well beforehand as well, e.g. Brian Propp, Pierre Turgeon, Bernie Nicholls, Theoren Fleury, Alexander Mogilny, Jeremy Roenick, Rod Brind'Amour, Charlie Simmer, Rick Martin, Dave Taylor.  Probably Randy Carlyle and maybe Tim Kerr.  Tom Barrasso, Mike Vernon, Ron Hextall.

 

Definitely glad to see Doug Wilson in though...been waiting a long time for that one.

 

I'm not necessarily against inducting Lowe, but there were other players I named that needed to get in first if that's where the bar is set.

Edited June 30, 2020 by Kevin Biestra

[King Heffy]

18 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

I'm open to Kevin Lowe, but he is really just a hair's width above Charlie Huddy, who had a very similar career.

 

Anyway, if we're going to induct based on being part of a dynasty, there is no question in my mind that John Tonelli (Islanders) is way higher on the ladder of people that need to be inducted.  And I would probably induct Butch Goring and perhaps Peter Mahovlich first as well.

 

And don't get me started on other players I would have inducted well beforehand as well, e.g. Brian Propp, Pierre Turgeon, Bernie Nicholls, Theoren Fleury, Alexander Mogilny, Jeremy Roenick, Rod Brind'Amour, Charlie Simmer, Rick Martin, Dave Taylor.  Probably Randy Carlyle and maybe Tim Kerr.  Tom Barrasso, Mike Vernon, Ron Hextall.

 

Definitely glad to see Doug Wilson in though...been waiting a long time for that one.

 

I'm not necessarily against inducting Lowe, but there were other players I named that needed to get in first if that's where the bar is set.

Foote too if Lowe is worthy.  Agree with 90% of your list, although I'm biased against Turgeon for reasons already discussed.

[Kevin Biestra]

@IBatch @189lb enforcers?

 

Yo man what you guys think about this.   

[zimmy]

The simple truth is this, there was nothing special or extraordinary about Kevin Lowe, certainly nothing that sets him apart from a long list of defensive minded defence man in his era. If Doug Lidster had been lucky enough to play his formative years on that Oiler team of the eighties, he would be the one heading to the hall of fame.
 

For Kevin Lowe it was right place right time and while team accomplishments do factor in when the HOF voters make their determinations, for some of us who watch the game and appreciate the skills needed to make a long career in this league, there are a myriad of similarly skilled d-men who are every bit as worthy to heap praise upon.

[Kevin Biestra]

17 minutes ago, zimmy said:

The simple truth is this, there was nothing special or extraordinary about Kevin Lowe, certainly nothing that sets him apart from a long list of defensive minded defence man in his era. If Doug Lidster had been lucky enough to play his formative years on that Oiler team of the eighties, he would be the one heading to the hall of fame.
 

For Kevin Lowe it was right place right time and while team accomplishments do factor in when the HOF voters make their determinations, for some of us who watch the game and appreciate the skills needed to make a long career in this league, there are a myriad of similarly skilled d-men who are every bit as worthy to heap praise upon.

 

Yeah, it's kind of weird that Randy Carlyle has a Norris Trophy and Kevin Lowe was never a Norris finalist.  I was a little surprised to see that Lowe did play in seven All-Star Games though.  That was pretty impressive.

 

I never thought I'd see him in the HOF though.  Doug Lidster is a pretty good comparable...and Doug's 63 point season would have been an 80 point season or better in Edmonton, and that would have really left an impression, as the Oilers never really had a second true offensive defenseman to back up Paul Coffey.  It usually went from Coffey with 120 points to someone else (Lowe / Huddy / etc.) with 45 points or so if I remember right.  Much like the Islanders dynasty where Potvin was a clear first ballot HOF'er but few people talk about anyone else from that blueline nowadays.

 

I always said Babych would have been a 100 point defenseman and in the HOF if he had started his career with Edmonton instead of Winnipeg.

[IBatch]

18 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said:

@IBatch @189lb enforcers?

 

Yo man what you guys think about this.   

I don’t mind Lowe getting the call - he was Edmonton’s defensive consciousness for a decade and won six cups...see your Huddy post from above and funny thing is I thought of him too.  He was a very good two-way defenseman and also had some Norris votes and all-star games/cups and finals under his belt.   If I had to pick someone from todays game it might be Suter...another minute muncher or more appropriately Vlasic in SJ, I suppose if either of them won six cups they’d get the HHOF call too at some point despite never really getting much Norris attention or first or second star all-star berths.  I expect this will be contraversial for quite some time... and maybe it lowers the bar a bit too.  EDM at its peak of power sent 11 guys to an all-star game.   Sure the league was smaller back then... but they also didn’t have some quacked out “inclusive” BS they do now where legitimate all-stars are passed on just so ARI or even VAN has to be represented ...  Patches should have made it this year on his own accord not as some replacement BS... 

 

Lowe knows he’s a tier down.... he said as much in his comments about getting the call.   Thing is he was a key part of their core - at least on par with Moog and probably Anderson as far as importance goes.   Others have mentioned Foote - good comparable- but imagine Foote winning six cups?   How many NHLers have even done that since he was drafted?  Three.  All drafted the same year in different rounds.   I’m ok with his inclusion - he was a leader and a rock for Edmonton.   

[Kevin Biestra]

14 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Lowe knows he’s a tier down.... he said as much in his comments about getting the call.   Thing is he was a key part of their core - at least on par with Moog and probably Anderson as far as importance goes.   Others have mentioned Foote - good comparable- but imagine Foote winning six cups?   How many NHLers have even done that since he was drafted?  Three.  All drafted the same year in different rounds.   I’m ok with his inclusion - he was a leader and a rock for Edmonton.   

 

Anderson...still 4th in NHL history for playoff points and 5th for goals.  And may have retired as high as 3rd for goals (can't remember if/when Hull and Messier passed him).  I'd have to say Glenn was more important than Lowe (and shouldn't have waited that long to get inducted) and harder to replace.  Regular season, I'd say Lowe and Anderson were close to even, but come playoff time Anderson pulled a Linden and did it often enough that he's 4th all time in playoff points compared to 63rd all time in regular season points.

 

Yeah, I think anyone who wins 6 Cups nowadays is probably getting into the Hall even if they have Loui Eriksson's role on the team.  Hossa is just the beginning of these three-Cup Blackhawks charging the gate at the Hall of Fame.

 

I remember there being some grumbles when Dick Duff got inducted.  Six Cups but never a single vote for anything ever at the end of the season.  Never scored 30 goals, never scored 60 points.  Never in the top 10 for points in any season.  But, like Lowe, 7 All Star Games.

Edited July 1, 2020 by Kevin Biestra

[Gurn]

 Glen Anderson was a heck of a hockey player, just not that good a person, imo. Which probably held him out of the hall for a bit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenn_Anderson#:~:text=Anderson playing in the 2008 Legends Classic in,Leafs%2C New York Rangers%2C and St. Louis Blues.

 

"Anderson's post-playing career was mired by a legal battle over child support. He was accused of reneging on child support payments to a woman with whom he had fathered a child out of wedlock. The case has since been settled. It was reported that the bad publicity from this case had kept Anderson out of the Hockey Hall of Fame for a long time.^[48]"

[IBatch]

14 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Anderson...still 4th in NHL history for playoff points and 5th for goals.  And may have retired as high as 3rd for goals (can't remember if/when Hull and Messier passed him).  I'd have to say Glenn was more important than Lowe (and shouldn't have waited that long to get inducted) and harder to replace.  Regular season, I'd say Lowe and Anderson were close to even, but come playoff time Anderson pulled a Linden and did it often enough that he's 4th all time in playoff points compared to 63rd all time in regular season points.

 

Yeah, I think anyone who wins 6 Cups nowadays is probably getting into the Hall even if they have Loui Eriksson's role on the team.  Hossa is just the beginning of these three-Cup Blackhawks charging the gate at the Hall of Fame.

 

I remember there being some grumbles when Dick Duff got inducted.  Six Cups but never a single vote for anything ever at the end of the season.  Never scored 30 goals, never scored 60 points.  Never in the top 10 for points in any season.  But, like Lowe, 7 All Star Games.

 No arguments there.   What I was trying to say was his importance level (Lowe) to that Edmonton team especially, was on a similar level to Anderson’s,  without Lowe or someone else like him around the net Furh and Moog would have had an even a harder time and have to make even more slot saves.  Lowe was definitely part of that groups core through thick and thin and don’t mind that he’s got the recognition.   Do feel that the bar is creeping lower the past few years though.   It also bugs me a bit that some better players won’t ever get in because of how they value cup rings - especially now with how hard it is with guys who played in 21-30ish team era.   At some point they won’t value that at the same level,  Lowe is probably the last guy who will ever get in with more then 3-4. 
 

Edit:  THN has been beating a drum the past five years or so that the HHOF has relaxed its standards ... first and second team all-star selections, personal hardware and cups used to be weighed higher then they seem to be now ... going from elite super-stars/stars down to the hall of very good.  Rechi and Anderchyuck getting in on longevity  .... Sundin was never a top centre, no individual hardware - did win a gold medal though ... wonder if he didn’t play in TO if he’d get in .... what’s really all that different between him and Turgeon?  Except Turgeon did score 131 points once and over 100 a couple times.   And played in the dead puck era too.  

Edited July 2, 2020 by IBatch