Salary cap could remain around the current 81.5 million for the next 3 seasons.

[D-Money]

56 minutes ago, Hairy Kneel said:

So on a 10M dollar contract 2M can be deferred? Allowing for more cap space for the 3 year cap freeze?

As far as I understand it, it’s just a deferral of actual cash, to help teams with cash flow. I don’t think it will affect the cap at all (but waiting for 100% confirmation).

[mll]

1 hour ago, Hairy Kneel said:

So on a 10M dollar contract 2M can be deferred? Allowing for more cap space for the 3 year cap freeze?

It's 10% and not 20% and it's only for next season.  Sounds like an automatic deferral and not an option. 

 

Friedman tweets it's going to be really tight for teams at the cap.  Sounds like it's the latter option as he wrote a few days ago.  The payment gets deferred but not the counting.  

 

If the accounting was also deferred it would create roughly 10% cap space.  It would be somewhat illogical because that space would then be gone the following season as the salary deferral is only for next season.   By also deferring the accounting it would allow teams to give out contracts of up to some 90M but have them count for only 81M to the cap (10% of 90M) but the following season those contracts would be worth 90M and the cap is still 81.5M.

 

[J.I.A.H.N]

The first thing that popped out at me was UFA free agency.......

 

Markstrom, Toffoli, Tanev are our big 3

 

I wonder how loyal they will be when asked to take discounts because of a flat cap, when some teams other than the Canucks will have cap space, even with a flat cap

 

For instance, if Benning had projected to have the cap rise by 3 million, before Covid hit, and he knew he would be tight against it, then it throws his accounting amuck.

 

This impacts Markstrom's 6.00 million, and Tanev's 6.00 million, not to mention Toffoli's 5.5. million

 

IMO, this is a problem faced around the league, which will show in how teams sign veterans...................or if they really do!

 

IMO, with the uncertainty surrounding Covid and whether this and next season are actually played (I certainly have some reservations on that)

 

(Just look at the state of California, who had Covid relatively controlled and opened up, and now have an avalanche of new cases, and are now pulling back on openings)

 

This is a Covid story, rather people want to think it is or not, and in my opinion...........

 

IF I was Benning, I would be Trading Markstrom for peanuts (it will look like 2022 3rd for the rights to negotiate prior to their being cut loose, and then another higher

 

compensary pick, if signed (maybe a added 2nd or another 3rd if signed)

 

Again, I am only using our guys as examples, as this will happen around the league.

 

So, it stands to reason that with Covid here, and IMO, the following seasons uncertainty, that keeping your younger guys under contract (AKA Demko and to a lesser degree

 

Toffoli) will safe guard your team long term.

 

(This could have easily gone in a Canuck forum, but this is league wide issue)

[qwijibo]

48 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

The first thing that popped out at me was UFA free agency.......

 

Markstrom, Toffoli, Tanev are our big 3

 

I wonder how loyal they will be when asked to take discounts because of a flat cap, when some teams other than the Canucks will have cap space, even with a flat cap

 

For instance, if Benning had projected to have the cap rise by 3 million, before Covid hit, and he knew he would be tight against it, then it throws his accounting amuck.

 

This impacts Markstrom's 6.00 million, and Tanev's 6.00 million, not to mention Toffoli's 5.5. million

 

IMO, this is a problem faced around the league, which will show in how teams sign veterans...................or if they really do!

 

IMO, with the uncertainty surrounding Covid and whether this and next season are actually played (I certainly have some reservations on that)

 

(Just look at the state of California, who had Covid relatively controlled and opened up, and now have an avalanche of new cases, and are now pulling back on openings)

 

This is a Covid story, rather people want to think it is or not, and in my opinion...........

 

IF I was Benning, I would be Trading Markstrom for peanuts (it will look like 2022 3rd for the rights to negotiate prior to their being cut loose, and then another higher

 

compensary pick, if signed (maybe a added 2nd or another 3rd if signed)

 

Again, I am only using our guys as examples, as this will happen around the league.

 

So, it stands to reason that with Covid here, and IMO, the following seasons uncertainty, that keeping your younger guys under contract (AKA Demko and to a lesser degree

 

Toffoli) will safe guard your team long term.

 

(This could have easily gone in a Canuck forum, but this is league wide issue)

Covid will make it a buyers market. Only so many teams have surplus cap space. That said the top UFA’s will get their money. They always do. 
 

It’ll be interesting to see what happens with Vancouvers free agents.  Barring a trade to free up cap space I don’t see Benning being able to keep everyone. 
 

As far as Markstrom goes.  If he’s not resigned I seriously doubt anyone will give up a 3rd + a higher conditional pick for his rights.  The league is bound to keep the negotiating period leading up to free agency.  UFA rights simply  don’t hold that value.  

[J.I.A.H.N]

4 hours ago, qwijibo said:

Covid will make it a buyers market. Only so many teams have surplus cap space. That said the top UFA’s will get their money. They always do. 
 

It’ll be interesting to see what happens with Vancouvers free agents.  Barring a trade to free up cap space I don’t see Benning being able to keep everyone. 
 

As far as Markstrom goes.  If he’s not resigned I seriously doubt anyone will give up a 3rd + a higher conditional pick for his rights.  The league is bound to keep the negotiating period leading up to free agency.  UFA rights simply  don’t hold that value.  

Not Attacking you Q

Just trying to make my point

 

So, lets go on the premise that all the owners will have a diversified investment portfolio

Of which, commercial real-estate, as well as residential real-estate are one of the more heavily invested in realms

 

I would say, that first off the teams, will not have the same value today as 6 months ago ( nor the same leveraging power)

and the same thing can be said of the real-estate

So, they simply just will not have the cash to spread around

 

Now we know that the Cap Ceiling is an imaginary line, and that actual money spend is minus escrow

So, in practical terms, they have never spent all that money, and in some cases, far less

 

Now how that works, towards my point, is that.........they simply do not have the money to spend in most cases

and so when it comes to the top end players, most teams are already committed to some big contracts

and finding more big money, may be a little difficult, regardless of how much cap space the have

 

Now, dealing with our 3 big time players, and probably some of our lesser players as well

Since we just don't know what the next 2 to 3 years will throw at us, in terms of Covid and revenue

I would wager to bet that, it is changing the landscape immensely

 

I would argue that in the case of Markstrom and Tanev, the contracts will be based on 2 good years and 2 not so good years

based on their age...............

So why would you commit to players that will be entering their not so good years, while paying them for good years?

If the next season or maybe 2 are in jeopardy?

 

Really this impacts Virtanen, Leivo, Gaudette, Toffoli, McEwen as well, not to mention Tryamkin and Rathbone, both who are in the same limbo as the others........

 

IMO, this looks to be a case of short term pain for long term gain............

 

As for the picks coming our way............it really doesn't matter what the deal is to talk to them, and more so, if they are signed by the other team...........maybe a 4th to talk to them, and a nother 2nd if they sign..............exclusive negotiating rights are valuable, if you actually are able to sign them..............

 

Really, I threw this premise out there to get a responds to how I feel about what may happen............people are in such a rush.....I see our window in 3 years when looking at the age of our team..............I think that does not work out so well for Markstrom and Tanev..........and Toffoli, really!

Edited July 1, 2020 by janisahockeynut

[qwijibo]

2 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

Not Attacking you Q

Just trying to make my point

 

So, lets go on the premise that all the owners will have a diversified investment portfolio

Of which, commercial real-estate, as well as residential real-estate are one of the more heavily invested in realms

 

I would say, that first off the teams, will not have the same value today as 6 months ago

and the same thing can be said of the real-estate

So, they simply just will not have the cash to spread around

 

Now we know that the Cap Ceiling is an imaginary line, and that actual money spend is minus escrow

So, in practical terms, they have never spent all that money, and in some cases, far less

 

Now how that works, towards my point, is that.........they simply do not have the money to spend in most cases

and so when it comes to the top end players, most teams are already committed to some big contracts

and finding more big money, may be a little difficult, regardless of how much cap space the have

 

Now, dealing with our 3 big time players, and probably some of our lesser players as well

Since we just don't know what the next 2 to 3 years will throw at us, in terms of Covid and revenue

I would wager to bet that, it is changing the landscape immensely

 

I would argue that in the case of Markstrom and Tanev, the contracts will be based on 2 good years and 2 not so good years

based on their age...............

So why would you commit to players that will be entering their not so good years, while paying them for good years?

 

Really this impacts Virtanen, Leivo, Gaudette, Toffoli, McEwen as well, not to mention Tryamkin and Rathbone, both who are in the same limbo as the others........

 

IMO, this looks to be a case of short term pain for long term gain............

 

ASs for the picks coming our way............it really doesn't matter what the deal is to talk to them, and more so, if they are signed by the other team...........maybe a 4th to talk to them, and a nother 2nd if they sign..............exclusive negotiating rights are valuable, if you actually are able to sign them..............

 

Really, I threw this premise out there to get a responds to how I feel about what may happen............people are in such a rush.....I see our window in 3 years when looking at the age of our team..............I think that does not work out so well for Markstrom and Tanev..........and Toffoli, really!

Look at your premise another way.  If you’re saying owners will greatly restrict GM’s in their spending, it’s certainly possible. But here’s the thing.  A big market team with cap space (for instance Montreal) May see a UFA they’re interested in (let’s say Toffoli just for ease.). Since they’re already committed to spending less than Vancouver and they have the cap space to do it, they could easily outbid a cap strapped team like Vancouver.  It won’t happen for every free agent. But the top guys will always get their money in pretty much every circumstance.  

[J.I.A.H.N]

2 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

Look at your premise another way.  If you’re saying owners will greatly restrict GM’s in their spending, it’s certainly possible. But here’s the thing.  A big market team with cap space (for instance Montreal) May see a UFA they’re interested in (let’s say Toffoli just for ease.). Since they’re already committed to spending less than Vancouver and they have the cap space to do it, they could easily outbid a cap strapped team like Vancouver.  It won’t happen for every free agent. But the top guys will always get their money in pretty much every circumstance.  

Oh, I agree, which makes it even more important to get exclusive rights of bargaining, if possible..........as like the team that currently owns their rights

Which is where I the intitial pick coming from.aka 1 for the rights, the other for the signing..............

 

Personally, I believe Aqualini will be bleeding profusely over this Covid virus.

 

On another note, I think this is time to ask the League for forgiveness on the Luongo Re-capture penalty, or at the very least a extention, somewhat like a buyout over more years.

 

These are going to be tough years..........

[qwijibo]

1 minute ago, janisahockeynut said:

Oh, I agree, which makes it even more important to get exclusive rights of bargaining, if possible..........as like the team that currently owns their rights

Which is where I the intitial pick coming from.aka 1 for the rights, the other for the signing..............

 

Personally, I believe Aqualini will be bleeding profusely over this Covid virus.

 

On another note, I think this is time to ask the League for forgiveness on the Luongo Re-capture penalty, or at the very least a extention, somewhat like a buyout over more years.

 

These are going to be tough years..........

I’d be willing to be real money that there is no way that will happen.  The Luongo penalty has no actually Dollar amount attached to it.  It costs the Aquilinis nothing.  It lowers the cap available to the Canucks, but that’s exactly what it was meant to do.
 

 Keep in mind that when the Canucks we’re reaping  the advantages of Luongo’s contract structure the cap was less than $60m. I doubt you’ll find much sympathy from the league now. 

[Pete M]

So when are they signing Tryamkin to his $2.5M contract?

[Pete M]

So when are they signing Tryamkin to his $2.5M contract?

[Pete M]

So when are they signing Tryamkin to his $2.5M contract?

[VegasCanuck]

Got to say, I was completely wrong on this. I really didn't think that the owners would ever agree to delinking revenue from salaries, even for a couple of seasons.

 

So, looks like they are going to run at 81.5 million, but with a 20% escrow for first season. Really hope this gets done so that we have cost certainty and know exactly what we can spend as a team.

 

 

[IBatch]

On 6/26/2020 at 8:24 PM, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Hopefully this means we’ll have an easier time re-signing Toffoli.

Markstrom too.   Really we are one of the best positioned teams for this scenario as far as where we are in the competitive cycle.   Two years a lot of money will be available and we will still be in the low spending - contracts remaining level and UFAs not getting what they might have if the cap continues to climb.   Sure these guys need to be replaced - and a lot of them will with the “fab 7” JB believes will make the NHL from our prospect pool.  
 

I predict the following guys will be traded or not re-signed once they are up : LE, Sutter, Beagle, Roussel, Pearson, Benn, Leivo, and Bear.   Maybe a hockey trade in there too.   Love Pearson but he’s working towards getting his legacy contract and if he keeps it up will surely get it.  Don’t think we can swing both Pearson and TT, will be one of the other past maybe next season.    Stetcher might be out too, this off-season if Tree comes back.  The team we have now and the next year or so won’t look anything like the one we will have three years from now. 
 

Yes I’m aware of the bonus money ... that said look at what happened to SJs lineup since acquiring Kalrsson...and TO...and EDM, CAL and Vegas and soon COL once their young guys get their second contract etc.   We have some issues but it’s only going to get better.   Love the quote that says as a GM if your not having trouble managing your cap that your not trying hard enough.   Our cap issues won’t get serious until Horvat and other draft picks start getting to their third contracts ...that’s our best cap window ... thankfully they will be staggered..

[IBatch]

On 7/3/2020 at 8:02 PM, VegasCanuck said:

Got to say, I was completely wrong on this. I really didn't think that the owners would ever agree to delinking revenue from salaries, even for a couple of seasons.

 

So, looks like they are going to run at 81.5 million, but with a 20% escrow for first season. Really hope this gets done so that we have cost certainty and know exactly what we can spend as a team.

 

 

The owners have had it great since the cap came in... first rolling back salaries and fixing them at I think 54%...then the next time they put them over a barrel and did it again going down to a 50/50 cut.   Their collective “war chest” is massive .... plus new teams coming in lining their pockets with over 1 billion in expansion fees.   It’s an elite club, that used to be a somewhat risky one that now is a streamlined cash cow...revenue splitting between franchises included.  Not to mention off-book revenue the players never see and how collectively franchise value has more then doubled on average during that time period.  Now rich people keep getting richer with minimal risk - and have the luxury and pride attached to owning one of only 32 franchises.    So yeah they can afford it - and so far have been excellent bosses during Covid too.   Have to give it to Bettman, he’s turned the NHL into a prospering well run business.   Maybe the most influential person in the history of the NHL.   Don’t like that he’s constantly booed ... he’s earned my respect despite not liking some of the things that have occurred during his reign. 

[IBatch]

On 7/1/2020 at 6:22 PM, janisahockeynut said:

Oh, I agree, which makes it even more important to get exclusive rights of bargaining, if possible..........as like the team that currently owns their rights

Which is where I the intitial pick coming from.aka 1 for the rights, the other for the signing..............

 

Personally, I believe Aqualini will be bleeding profusely over this Covid virus.

 

On another note, I think this is time to ask the League for forgiveness on the Luongo Re-capture penalty, or at the very least a extention, somewhat like a buyout over more years.

 

These are going to be tough years..........

Yes, tough years for everyone.   Tough for the recent graduates looking to join the workforce, instead bad to Mom and Dads... or recent retirees watching they life’s work go down in big chunks...not to mention small businesses.  The Aqualini’s will divest themselves in certain areas and gobble up stocks while they are down grinning the entire time knowing full well when things swing the other way (which they most certainly will) that they’ve just added a pile of more wealth to their portfolio long term.  This cycles happen once a decade or so and it’s not the rich that hurt from it - they gain the most and the middle class suffers through it unbeknownst to a lot they just handed it over to the 1%.  
 

Hard for the average folks to get in on,  not impossible but not at all easy either.  Pretty sure there isn’t an owner in the league that won’t have a many back ups to keep things going - and also bet that most will come out if this smelling like roses with a pile more holdings taken mostly from the middle class.   Just how  the world works.   Worst case they lose one entire year of hockey - it’s possible.   They did it in 2004....and can do it again if they have too - and this time they’ve enjoyed 15 years of growth and income on their investment(s) and don’t have a dozen or so franchises bleeding money.  As far as NHLers go not worried about their finances either - sure a lot of them can add a lot to their portfolios too with good advice.

 

Its the system the world runs on.  If we were all rich who would do the work? 

Edited July 5, 2020 by IBatch

[IBatch]

On 7/1/2020 at 6:14 PM, qwijibo said:

Look at your premise another way.  If you’re saying owners will greatly restrict GM’s in their spending, it’s certainly possible. But here’s the thing.  A big market team with cap space (for instance Montreal) May see a UFA they’re interested in (let’s say Toffoli just for ease.). Since they’re already committed to spending less than Vancouver and they have the cap space to do it, they could easily outbid a cap strapped team like Vancouver.  It won’t happen for every free agent. But the top guys will always get their money in pretty much every circumstance.  

I’m sure the GMs will try hard to low ball the next crop of UFAs.   I’m also certain someone won’t be able to control theirselves too...it’s been going on since salary disclosure...

[IBatch]

On 7/1/2020 at 1:06 PM, janisahockeynut said:

The first thing that popped out at me was UFA free agency.......

 

Markstrom, Toffoli, Tanev are our big 3

 

I wonder how loyal they will be when asked to take discounts because of a flat cap, when some teams other than the Canucks will have cap space, even with a flat cap

 

For instance, if Benning had projected to have the cap rise by 3 million, before Covid hit, and he knew he would be tight against it, then it throws his accounting amuck.

 

This impacts Markstrom's 6.00 million, and Tanev's 6.00 million, not to mention Toffoli's 5.5. million

 

IMO, this is a problem faced around the league, which will show in how teams sign veterans...................or if they really do!

 

IMO, with the uncertainty surrounding Covid and whether this and next season are actually played (I certainly have some reservations on that)

 

(Just look at the state of California, who had Covid relatively controlled and opened up, and now have an avalanche of new cases, and are now pulling back on openings)

 

This is a Covid story, rather people want to think it is or not, and in my opinion...........

 

IF I was Benning, I would be Trading Markstrom for peanuts (it will look like 2022 3rd for the rights to negotiate prior to their being cut loose, and then another higher

 

compensary pick, if signed (maybe a added 2nd or another 3rd if signed)

 

Again, I am only using our guys as examples, as this will happen around the league.

 

So, it stands to reason that with Covid here, and IMO, the following seasons uncertainty, that keeping your younger guys under contract (AKA Demko and to a lesser degree

 

Toffoli) will safe guard your team long term.

 

(This could have easily gone in a Canuck forum, but this is league wide issue)

For me anyways I see Markstrom as a must sign both for now and the long term.  He’s only 30, has low miles compared to a lot of goalies his age - and entered his prime this season.   Can’t see how he won’t still be a capable goalie at 35 ...

 

However  Toffoli could be another bad signing ... or he could be great or just ok.    We don’t really need him ... and if we do sign him might as well say goodbye to either Pearson or JV.  Like you said can’t afford them all.   The list of mid level guys who lost their mojo soon after or a year or two into their UFA deal is very very long.   For every Tavares, Panarin or Stamkos there is five  guys like Neal, Lucic, LE, Foligno, Ladd, Skinner, Duchene, Clarkson etc.. Karlsson maybe too.    I do feel pretty good about adding Toffoli  - but not sure we win if that means Pearson or JV have to go and how it could affect BB’s development too...glad I don’t have to make the tough decisions for sure. 
 

Edit: Pretty sure if Toffoli wants to stay we will offer him a contract - and that it’s a exit strategy for Pearson (we trade him while his stock is high - and get a modest upgrade in his old linemate Toffoli).   If we don’t sign him then we can offer the contract to Pearson instead - win win. 

[VegasCanuck]

15 hours ago, IBatch said:

The owners have had it great since the cap came in... first rolling back salaries and fixing them at I think 54%...then the next time they put them over a barrel and did it again going down to a 50/50 cut.   Their collective “war chest” is massive .... plus new teams coming in lining their pockets with over 1 billion in expansion fees.   It’s an elite club, that used to be a somewhat risky one that now is a streamlined cash cow...revenue splitting between franchises included.  Not to mention off-book revenue the players never see and how collectively franchise value has more then doubled on average during that time period.  Now rich people keep getting richer with minimal risk - and have the luxury and pride attached to owning one of only 32 franchises.    So yeah they can afford it - and so far have been excellent bosses during Covid too.   Have to give it to Bettman, he’s turned the NHL into a prospering well run business.   Maybe the most influential person in the history of the NHL.   Don’t like that he’s constantly booed ... he’s earned my respect despite not liking some of the things that have occurred during his reign. 

I actually don't think Bettmanhas done a bad job. He's brought cost certainty to the league, and I think overall, the current CBA, although not perfect, has worked pretty well for both sides.

 

All documents need periodic updating to adjust for real life usage. There are things in the CBA that need to be adjusted for both sides to work better, I do think there is other revenue that should be included into the CBA to be fair for the players, but that also might be better to wait till the next revision as the owners are stepping up and offering to pay the players at a really high level, and assume greater financial risk. 

 

This could easily be 2 - 3 years before fans are allowed back in the buildings.

 

[IBatch]

17 hours ago, VegasCanuck said:

I actually don't think Bettmanhas done a bad job. He's brought cost certainty to the league, and I think overall, the current CBA, although not perfect, has worked pretty well for both sides.

 

All documents need periodic updating to adjust for real life usage. There are things in the CBA that need to be adjusted for both sides to work better, I do think there is other revenue that should be included into the CBA to be fair for the players, but that also might be better to wait till the next revision as the owners are stepping up and offering to pay the players at a really high level, and assume greater financial risk. 

 

This could easily be 2 - 3 years before fans are allowed back in the buildings.

 

Well maybe I suppose.. the timeline the public were  given near the beginning was 1.5 years for a cure being available and given to the mass public and it seems that with 20 or vaccines ready for trials by or in the fall that they are on course (including one in Canada that looks very promising - delivers more anti-bodies so far then the actual virus does).   Guess we will have to wait and see.   It could also be next season at some point too.

[JeremyCuddles]

Nobody is gonna have cap, so I am not too worried about potentially losing guys. They can leave, but where they gonna go? Lol. New Jersey? They are gonna need to save cap too for their big name draft picks eventually. Ottawa? Yeah I am sure players are lining up to go to play for a team owned by Melnyk. That's not even including the fact he wasn't even interested in paying Erik Karlsson. Is he gonna let the GM pay for UFAs during a pandemic? Doubtful.

 

This team is on the up and up. Take a 1 or 2 year deal and stick with a playoff team. The alternatives aren't very good in free agency. Toffoli may return to LA, if they are interested in bringing him back. But I still believe he'd be down for Vancouver. West coast team, again in a much better position for playoffs than LA. Tanev and Marky will take cheaper deals to stay here. The alternatives are New Jersey or Ottawa.