The Canucks’ depth on RW and long term implications and strategies

[Patel Bure]

The Canucks’ depth on RW and long term implications and strategies:  
 

I think it goes without saying that our organizational depth on RW just might be our biggest strength from a short term and long term perspective (although perhaps a case can be made for our goaltending, center, and LW positions but I digress).

 

Here is what our depth on RW looks like:

 

-Toffoli

-Boeser

-Virtanen

-Leivo

-Eriksson

-MacEwen

-Podkolzin

-Lind

-Jasek

-Lockwood

 

I would argue that the Canucks are in a position where they could use their strength and depth on RW to fill holes in weaker areas such as prospects on right side defense, draft picks, or whatever they choose.

 

It would obviously involving a balancing act between....

 

1) Short term and long term cap ramifications.

2) Quality of depth on RW

3) How much each individual RW’er on our team would fetch us in a trade to round out weaker areas in our organization.

 

For example, having......

 

xxx-xxx-Toffoli

xxx-xxx-Boeser

xxx-xxx-Podkolzin 

xxx-xxx-Virtanen

 

Would give us tremendous depth on RW, but it would likely give us future cap problems.  Furthermore, we would likely still have holes in other areas of our team and so having such an overwhelming strength on RW would be unnecessary (especially when you consider the fact that Virtanen and Podkolzin would deserve to play higher up in the line-up in an ideal setting).

 

On the flip side, if you went with....

 

xxx-xxx-Podkolzin

xxx-xxx-Virtanen

xxx-xxx-Lind or Leivo

xxx-xxx-MacEwen or Lind

 

It likely means that the Canucks walked away from Toffoli to save cap, while trading Boeser to shore up other areas on the team (ie defense, etc.).   However, I think most would agree that going with this kind of depth on RW would be very risky.   We still don’t know what we have in Podkolzin, and Virtanen’s inconsistency could make him a misfit in a top 6 role.

 

Moving Podkolzin and Boeser would likely net us fantastic returns in terms of shoring up other areas on our team, but would you be comfortable with......

 

xxx-xxx-Toffoli

xxx-xxx-Virtanen

xxx-xxx-Lind or Leivo

xxx-xxx-MacEwen or Lind
 

So my questions are as follows:  
 

1) How would you organize our depth on RW?  What players would be moved or unsigned?  Why?

 

2)  If you choose to move a certain player on our RW to shore up other areas in our organization, what kind of return would you expect?

 

In answering my own question, I *might* be inclined to go with my Podkolzin and Boeser idea from above, but I don’t think I’d be that aggressive.    I’d probably attempt to go with Toffoli, Boeser, Leivo, and MacEwen and see what type of returns I could get with Virtanen (low 1st?) and Podkolzin (exceptional defensive prospect?) but I honestly have no idea.

[canuktravella]

 toffoli and virtanen  will be resigned

boeser is going nowhere  macewen will play in van next yr     jake played left wing in junior no reason  he cant now

 podzolkin has another yr in khl  at some point we will  make a trade  to fit him in lineup but thats   a ton of  time away 

[IBatch]

Lind can play either side and Podz is getting some time at C so we have some options with those guys.  Yes we are strong.  However your depth chart id argue isn’t correct and BB should be ahead of TT.  There are five different ways to explain it but let’s just stick with age for now.   TT is a rental.  Fans need to start getting that into their heads.   JV is a better signing IMO as well.   Cap matters and outside of EP he was by far our best performer money wise and still will be with a bridge deal.   LE is an anchor we have to live with.  Maybe he retires - maybe he doesn’t.  But I’d say it’s total pre-mature to worry about next steps until that at least has come and passed. 
 

FYI after Marchand check out Boston’s LW depth.   Hmmm...what 25ish points next up?   And they won the presidents trophy.  We don’t need complete balance on both sides - id say trade Pearson - sigh JV Markstrom, and Tanev and say goodbye and thanks for the memories to TT IF LE doesn’t retire.  Only IF he retires can we consider him otherwise- zero chance.  BB isn’t going anywhere.  JB just said this.  He has NO intention on trading him and has had NO discussions about it.

 

Yes our R wing depth is a strength for this years playoffs only.  It’s 100% not sustainable.  
 

Edit: Thanks for this thread but this looks dangerously like another f!ck you BB thread in the making and I don’t like it.   The proposal thread are loaded with them.  Anyone who’s watched this team for very long time can attest that the best ever career starts so far start with Linden,Bure, EP, QHs AND BB and go down from there.  He was tied for 5th in R wing scoring just before he went down.  And had another year full of things to distract him.   Ten games of TT looking for his legacy deal is not nearly as great as BB.   I can’t understand how anyone wouldn’t get that.   I like TT but he’s a luxury we simply can’t afford until LEs off the books.  JB I’m sure feels exactly the same. 
 

BTW:  Experts with zero skin in the game recently ranked the best fantasy forwards top 100 at NHL.com.  I won’t debate their credentials as of course they are better then you or I as otherwise they wouldn’t get the job.  BB was ranked 56.   TT 70 one spot behind Horvat.  

Edited July 16, 2020 by IBatch

[Frozen Water Walker]

NHL Top 15 Right Wings

13. Brock Boeser, Vancouver Canucks

Total points: 40

Season stats: 45 points (16 goals, 29 assists) in 57 games

Career playoff stats: N/A

Boeser has been one of the more productive right wings in the NHL during the past three seasons with 156 points (71 goals, 85 assists) in 188 games. Among right wings during that time, he's tied for 15th in goals, tied for 16th in points and 12th in points per game (0.83; minimum 100 games) despite being 58th in games played.

[IBatch]

6 minutes ago, Frozen Water Walker said:

NHL Top 15 Right Wings

13. Brock Boeser, Vancouver Canucks

Total points: 40

Season stats: 45 points (16 goals, 29 assists) in 57 games

Career playoff stats: N/A

Boeser has been one of the more productive right wings in the NHL during the past three seasons with 156 points (71 goals, 85 assists) in 188 games. Among right wings during that time, he's tied for 15th in goals, tied for 16th in points and 12th in points per game (0.83; minimum 100 games) despite being 58th in games played.

Where does TT fit during that span?  Or where does his career fit overall? 40-50 is my guess.  But hey let’s trade a 22ish year old guy, Calder runner up, all-star MVP for a career middle sixer.   CAL trading Hull doesn’t sound much different.  Idiotic. 

[Patel Bure]

9 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Lind can play either side and Podz is getting some time at C so we have some options with those guys.  Yes we are strong.  However your depth chart id argue isn’t correct and BB should be ahead of TT.  There are five different ways to explain it but let’s just stick with age for now.   TT is a rental.  Fans need to start getting that into their heads.   JV is a better signing IMO as well.   Cap matters and outside of EP he was by far our best performer money wise and still will be with a bridge deal.   LE is an anchor we have to live with.  Maybe he retires - maybe he doesn’t.  But I’d say it’s total pre-mature to worry about next steps until that at least has come and passed. 
 

FYI after Marchand check out Boston’s LW depth.   Hmmm...what 25ish points next up?   And they won the presidents trophy.  We don’t need complete balance on both sides - id say trade Pearson - sigh JV Markstrom, and Tanev and say goodbye and thanks for the memories to TT IF LE doesn’t retire.  Only IF he retires can we consider him otherwise- zero chance.  BB isn’t going anywhere.  JB just said this.  He has NO intention on trading him and has had NO discussions about it.

 

Yes our R wing depth is a strength for this years playoffs only.  It’s 100% not sustainable.  
 

Edit: Thanks for this thread but this looks dangerously like another f!ck you BB thread in the making and I don’t like it.   The proposal thread are loaded with them.  Anyone who’s watched this team for very long time can attest that the best ever career starts so far start with Linden,Bure, EP, QHs AND BB and go down from there.  He was tied for 5th in R wing scoring just before he went down.  And had another year full of things to distract him.   Ten games of TT looking for his legacy deal is not nearly as great as BB.   I can’t understand how anyone wouldn’t get that.   I like TT but he’s a luxury we simply can’t afford until LEs off the books.  JB I’m sure feels exactly the same. 

I hear what you’re saying but trust me when I say that my post wasn’t intended to be some kind of passive aggressive swipe against Boeser.   I would love to keep Boeser as I’m sure Benning would as well, but we also have to be cognizant of the future cap.   What type of salary would Boeser command once he hits UFA? (assuming that he starts performing like he did two seasons ago).    
 

Will the Canucks really let Toffoli walk away after having given up so much to acquire him?  Can Virtanen be signed to a long term cost effective deal and become a good 2nd line winger?    What type of return could Boeser get in a trade?  What about Virtanen?  
 

Those are the things that Benning needs to think about when assessing short term and long term plans.

 

I would even consider the following:  (although I’d have to give it some thought).

 

xxx-xxx-Toffoli

xxx-xxx-Boeser

xxx-xxx-Leivo

xxx-xxx-MacEwen

 

Virtanen gets moved for a low 1st to clear cap, while Podkolzin is moved for an elite defensive prospect.    Guys like Lind and Tryamkin can be used as sweeteners to move some bad contracts such as Sutter, Baertschi, etc.

 

The young “stud” defensive prospect that we trade Podkolzin for could then replace Edler one day as our top pairing “all situations” defenseman.

[IBatch]

8 minutes ago, DarkIndianRises said:

I hear what you’re saying but trust me when I say that my post wasn’t intended to be some kind of passive aggressive swipe against Boeser.   I would love to keep Boeser as I’m sure Benning would as well, but we also have to be cognizant of the future cap.   What type of salary would Boeser command once he hits UFA? (assuming that he starts performing like he did two seasons ago).    
 

Will the Canucks really let Toffoli walk away after having given up so much to acquire him?  Can Virtanen be signed to a long term cost effective deal and become a good 2nd line winger?    What type of return could Boeser get in a trade?  What about Virtanen?  
 

Those are the things that Benning needs to think about when assessing short term and long term plans.

 

I would even consider the following:  (although I’d have to give it some thought).

 

xxx-xxx-Toffoli

xxx-xxx-Boeser

xxx-xxx-Leivo

xxx-xxx-MacEwen

 

Virtanen gets moved for a low 1st to clear cap, while Podkolzin is moved for an elite defensive prospect.    Guys like Lind and Tryamkin can be used as sweeteners to move some bad contracts such as Sutter, Baertschi, etc.

 

The young “stud” defensive prospect that we trade Podkolzin for could then replace Edler one day as our top pairing “all situations” defenseman.

Well that’s a relief although I still noticed you are suggesting maybe we should consider it given his cap hit.   JV made 1.5 million this year - how is subtracting his salary going to make the 3.5 million difference to keep TT? Plus Leivo will want a raise too.   Again TT is absolutely, 100% 300% a rental unless LE retires. No way we can keep him otherwise.  JB is not an idiot and is not trading BB. 
 

Where is the money coming from ? Pearson. Have been saying this for weeks now.  We can’t afford both and even then I think it would cost both Pearson and JV to keep TT.  Why?  Markstrom.  Tanev. 
 

Edit:  OK. I will play ball.  IF and all my posts are against this IF we trade BB it has to be a cap savings event.  That means we’d have to roll the dice on a RHD like Dobson ... id say Bouchard but no way we’d do that in our own division.    Ugh.  JV isn’t going to get us a first ... maybe a second.  Picks are gold now especially with Covid.   Just give him a one year bridge and and a million to his pay cheque and say goodbye to Leivo and save some money. 

Edited July 16, 2020 by IBatch

[Patel Bure]

3 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Well that’s a relief although I still noticed you are suggesting maybe we should consider it given his cap hit.   JV made 1.5 million this year - how is subtracting his salary going to make the 3.5 million difference to keep TT? Plus Leivo will want a raise too.   Again TT is absolutely, 100% 300% a rental unless LE retires. No way we can keep him otherwise.  JB is not an idiot and is not trading BB. 
 

Where is the money coming from ? Pearson. Have been saying this for weeks now.  We can’t afford both and even then I think it would cost both Pearson and JV to keep TT.  Why?  Markstrom.  Tanev. 

In terms of your last question (where is the money coming from?), I think the Canucks have some kind of plan in place with regards to Loui Eriksson.   Here’s what I’m thinking:

 

1) Eriksson will either be packaged with a sweetener (young player) to Ottawa or Detroit (I’m thinking Demko).

 

2) The Canucks and Eriksson already came to an “under the table” agreement where Eriksson would retire at the end of this season (31 of 36 million will have already been paid to Eriksson), under the condition that Eriksson wouldn’t be sent to the minors this season.  Complete theory on my part, but I suspect that this was why he was never sent down.  I also suspect that this was why Benning felt comfortable signing both Ferland and Myers.

[Patel Bure]

43 minutes ago, canuktravella said:

 toffoli and virtanen  will be resigned

boeser is going nowhere  macewen will play in van next yr     jake played left wing in junior no reason  he cant now

 podzolkin has another yr in khl  at some point we will  make a trade  to fit him in lineup but thats   a ton of  time away 

I’d love for your scenario to play out, but where would the money come from?  Would we let Tanev walk? (Tryamkin signed a one year deal in the KHL by the way).    Bye bye Markstrom?   Something would have to give cap wise.

[IBatch]

1 minute ago, DarkIndianRises said:

In terms of your last question (where is the money coming from?), I think the Canucks have some kind of plan in place with regards to Loui Eriksson.   Here’s what I’m thinking:

 

1) Eriksson will either be packaged with a sweetener (young player) to Ottawa or Detroit (I’m thinking Demko).

 

2) The Canucks and Eriksson already came to an “under the table” agreement where Eriksson would retire at the end of this season (31 of 36 million will have already been paid to Eriksson), under the condition that Eriksson wouldn’t be sent to the minors this season.  Complete theory on my part, but I suspect that this was why he was never sent down.  I also suspect that this was why Benning felt comfortable signing both Ferland and Myers.

That’s some crystal ball you have there.  Did JB have one for Covid too?  Nobody did.  He wasn’t sent down because he was the BPA.  And TG plays with what he has to work with.  JV had a great season by his standards and deserves a one year bridge for it.  Like I said - the only way we re-sign TT is if LE is off the books ... he might want the 5 million on the table ... that’s a lot of doughnuts even for him.

[JeremyCuddles]

Trading Boeser for anything other than a massive overpayment is idiotic. Hate to use harsh wording but that's the way it is. I love Toffoli, would love to keep him. But not at the expense of Boeser. Unless we get a true number 2 right handed D-man in that 22-25 age range for Boeser a trade is not smart. Teams generally don't trade those guys either. I think it'd be idiotic to trade Podkolzin too. When he comes to the NHL he'll be a 3rd line quality player at the start of his ELC, that's 3 years of a 3rd liner (At worst he'll be a third liner) making bottom 6 cap. And he'll only get better from there. Cheap, quality player that plays hard in all 3 zones and has a competitive edge to him. Sad to say, if cap crunch really hits. Just let Toffoli and possibly Tanev walk. Hughes is a stud, he'll find success no matter who his linemate is, so losing Tanman would suck but is not the end of the world.

 

I dunno why so many people are willing to trade the Virtanens, Podkolzins, and Boesers. The returns on these guys won't be what we need. Boeser won't get us Dumba since they clearly want a stud center. And if we beat them in the play ins they very may draft Lafreniere, making their need for Boeser even less than it already is. And I am not sure I'd swap Boeser for Risto straight up. And I doubt Buffalo would want to add. There are not many right handed top 2 d-men on the market. And the d-men on the market I don't think I'd move for Boeser. 

 

And of those RWers you posted, I am pretty sure at least half can swap wings if need be. MacEwen even has some center experience under his belt. So we shouldn't feel forced to make a move cause we have a lot of guys that have playe RW before.

[Chris12345]

This again....so many variables to the equation. 

 

Imagine a world where NHL players don't sign in Van and prospects flop?

 

TT, Leivo sign elsewhere? Lind and Jasek flop? 

 

I've learned to expect the unexpected. 

Edited July 16, 2020 by Chris12345

[Provost]

I would trade Boeser this year, assuming you could get a good return for him and go with:

Toffoli
Virtanen
Leivo
Macewan

Then next offseason after Virtanen has had a full season in the top 6, I would trade him.

Toffoli
Podkolzin
MacEwan
Lind

Of course it depends on the return, but if you can get a top 4D PLUS get rid of a cap dump for Boeser you are improving the team... you have also turned Toffoli into an asset where he isn't one right now as a pending UFA.  Fairly early next season Podkolzin can come in when the KHL is done, and he can slide into the 3rd line spot to see how he plays and if he is ready for a top 6 role the next year.
Then the next year there will be teams who can't protect all their top 4D in expansion so you should be able to get another top 4D plus maybe a decent pick or prospect for Virtanen (assuming Podkolzin can replace him).

In the end our RW is still really solid AND you have entirely re-invented your defence which is really hard to do.  You have also opened up a crap ton of cap space with having young and cheap guys in those roster spots.

Edited July 16, 2020 by Provost

[Patel Bure]

1 hour ago, N7Nucks said:

Trading Boeser for anything other than a massive overpayment is idiotic. Hate to use harsh wording but that's the way it is. I love Toffoli, would love to keep him. But not at the expense of Boeser. Unless we get a true number 2 right handed D-man in that 22-25 age range for Boeser a trade is not smart. Teams generally don't trade those guys either. I think it'd be idiotic to trade Podkolzin too. When he comes to the NHL he'll be a 3rd line quality player at the start of his ELC, that's 3 years of a 3rd liner (At worst he'll be a third liner) making bottom 6 cap. And he'll only get better from there. Cheap, quality player that plays hard in all 3 zones and has a competitive edge to him. Sad to say, if cap crunch really hits. Just let Toffoli and possibly Tanev walk. Hughes is a stud, he'll find success no matter who his linemate is, so losing Tanman would suck but is not the end of the world.

 

I dunno why so many people are willing to trade the Virtanens, Podkolzins, and Boesers. The returns on these guys won't be what we need. Boeser won't get us Dumba since they clearly want a stud center. And if we beat them in the play ins they very may draft Lafreniere, making their need for Boeser even less than it already is. And I am not sure I'd swap Boeser for Risto straight up. And I doubt Buffalo would want to add. There are not many right handed top 2 d-men on the market. And the d-men on the market I don't think I'd move for Boeser. 

 

And of those RWers you posted, I am pretty sure at least half can swap wings if need be. MacEwen even has some center experience under his belt. So we shouldn't feel forced to make a move cause we have a lot of guys that have playe RW before.

One of the reasons why I’m open to trading the Boeser’s, Virtanen’s, and Podkolzin’s, is to see what kind of return we’d get on those guys while shoring up areas in which we need help in (ie  good defensive prospects on our right side D).     
 

Edler-Stecher

Hughes-Tanev

Benn-Myers

 

Is decent for now, but the need to replace Edler one day (top pairing situations dman) is a very tall order.   Tanev is also leaving his prime years as well.    So it’s not just about “having the best RW’ers on our team as possible,” but rather, taking a short and long term wholistic view of the team into consideration.    
 

I personally don’t feel comfortable letting Toffoli walk away for nothing after having given up an arm and a leg to get him.   Given Toffoli’s age, I think he can be signed to a pretty decent long term AAV as well.  
 

I would love to keep Boeser and Podkolzin as well, but we simply can’t ignore the type of returns that those guys would fetch, along with the fact that rolling with Toffoli and Virtanen as your top 6 RW *might* not be the worst thing in the world (especially if Virtanen can be signed long term to a cost effective AAV and performs consistently as a 2nd line winger). 

[Patel Bure]

6 minutes ago, Provost said:

I would trade Boeser this year, assuming you could get a good return for him and go with:

Toffoli
Virtanen
Leivo
Macewan

Then next offseason after Virtanen has had a full season in the top 6, I would trade him.

Toffoli
Podkolzin
MacEwan
Lind

Of course it depends on the return, but if you can get a top 4D PLUS get rid of a cap dump for Boeser you are improving the team... you have also turned Toffoli into an asset where he isn't one right now as a pending UFA.  Fairly early next season Podkolzin can come in when the KHL is done, and he can slide into the 3rd line spot to see how he plays and if he is ready for a top 6 role the next year.
Then the next year there will be teams who can't protect all their top 4D in expansion so you should be able to get another top 4D plus maybe a decent pick or prospect for Virtanen (assuming Podkolzin can replace him).

In the end our RW is still really solid AND you have entirely re-invented your defence which is really hard to do.  You have also opened up a crap ton of cap space with having young and cheap guys in those roster spots.

I like your ideas a lot.   
 

Toffoli and Podkolzin on the Canucks’ right side should be pretty formidable, while Boeser and Virtanen can eventually be used to free up cap space while addressing our needs on defense.   

[poet]

I know people hate the idea of trading Boeser, but something’s got to give. You need to look at Toffoli over Boeser as not just a straight up comparison, but as Toffoli plus a high end D prospect...not to mention the assets we gave up to get Toffoli. 
 

Given the fact that I’m also worried about his injury history, I’m fine if JB explores trade options for Boeser...

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, N7Nucks said:

Trading Boeser for anything other than a massive overpayment is idiotic. Hate to use harsh wording but that's the way it is. I love Toffoli, would love to keep him. But not at the expense of Boeser. Unless we get a true number 2 right handed D-man in that 22-25 age range for Boeser a trade is not smart. Teams generally don't trade those guys either. I think it'd be idiotic to trade Podkolzin too. When he comes to the NHL he'll be a 3rd line quality player at the start of his ELC, that's 3 years of a 3rd liner (At worst he'll be a third liner) making bottom 6 cap. And he'll only get better from there. Cheap, quality player that plays hard in all 3 zones and has a competitive edge to him. Sad to say, if cap crunch really hits. Just let Toffoli and possibly Tanev walk. Hughes is a stud, he'll find success no matter who his linemate is, so losing Tanman would suck but is not the end of the world.

 

I dunno why so many people are willing to trade the Virtanens, Podkolzins, and Boesers. The returns on these guys won't be what we need. Boeser won't get us Dumba since they clearly want a stud center. And if we beat them in the play ins they very may draft Lafreniere, making their need for Boeser even less than it already is. And I am not sure I'd swap Boeser for Risto straight up. And I doubt Buffalo would want to add. There are not many right handed top 2 d-men on the market. And the d-men on the market I don't think I'd move for Boeser. 

 

And of those RWers you posted, I am pretty sure at least half can swap wings if need be. MacEwen even has some center experience under his belt. So we shouldn't feel forced to make a move cause we have a lot of guys that have playe RW before.

Great post.   Agree to all of this.  One thing that a lot of BB proposals don’t include is that the cap space coming back rarely works to sign TT anyways.  Yeah sure trade him for Risto all two years of his cap hit of 5.4. - how is that going to help us sign TT?.  Or Parayoko three more years at 5.5... or Provorov 6 years at 6.75 and he’s a LHD...  we do that and we still can’t sign a Tanev, Markstrom, JV and TT.   
 

IF and as I’ve stated dozens of times now IF we trade BB it’s so we can sign TT,  very likely a downgrade even in the short term, very likely in the long term  - could even be LE bad although I don’t think so (or go the Salo/Ferland/Sutter route and just be injured all the time) and want to fix an organizational need it should be for a guy like Dobson or Bouchard.    A RHD with a lot of promise who’s still on an ELC.   I still hate the idea.  
 

Six times in our entire history have we drafted a player as good or better and that it. An average of one every decade almost  - and three of them have happened in the past five years.   No thanks.   Adding TT would be awesome - the subtraction almost definitely is LE.  Trade wise we’d have to give Podz and a pick up at least.   Already lost Madden and a second ... how freaking desperate are we to get a little bit better?  We didn’t win more games with him in the lineup instead of BB did we? 

[JeremyCuddles]

1 hour ago, DarkIndianRises said:

One of the reasons why I’m open to trading the Boeser’s, Virtanen’s, and Podkolzin’s, is to see what kind of return we’d get on those guys while shoring up areas in which we need help in (ie  good defensive prospects on our right side D).     
 

Edler-Stecher

Hughes-Tanev

Benn-Myers

 

Is decent for now, but the need to replace Edler one day (top pairing situations dman) is a very tall order.   Tanev is also leaving his prime years as well.    So it’s not just about “having the best RW’ers on our team as possible,” but rather, taking a short and long term wholistic view of the team into consideration.    
 

I personally don’t feel comfortable letting Toffoli walk away for nothing after having given up an arm and a leg to get him.   Given Toffoli’s age, I think he can be signed to a pretty decent long term AAV as well.  
 

I would love to keep Boeser and Podkolzin as well, but we simply can’t ignore the type of returns that those guys would fetch, along with the fact that rolling with Toffoli and Virtanen as your top 6 RW *might* not be the worst thing in the world (especially if Virtanen can be signed long term to a cost effective AAV and performs consistently as a 2nd line winger). 

If we're trading Boeser for a D prospect that's 2 steps forwards 3 steps back. And we didn't give up an arm and a leg for Toffoli. It was a 5'11 150 pound center that can potentially play top 6 if he overperforms and a 2nd rounder. It's a decent package but overall it'd be a very easy pill to swallow given Madden didn't fit anywhere over Horvat, Petey, Gaudette. And we gonna play a 150 pounder at 4th line center? Not likely. As mentioned our RW depth is massive. So he didn't fit there either. We gave up little to get Toffoli.

 

The return on Podkolzin won't be high either, not high enough to warrant even trading him. And I can't preface this enough, he'll be cheap. We're trading ELC players at a time we need NHL ready players on cheap contracts. It's bass ackwards. Let Tanny and Toffoli walk before trading good young players. These guys can be replaced from within. Woo, Rathbone and Juolevi are in the system as well. So Edler leaving may not be for years given Hughes has taken top pair duties now and Edler can add a year or two to his hockey life with that mileage taken off. Juolevi has potential in my books and Rathbone looks really solid. We'll draft a D or two this draft as well.

 

I am not against trading Boeser, but the return needs to be more than "D prospects" and if it's more than prospects we won't sign Toffoli anyway. Lol. That's ridiculous. Pod I am against trading, and Virtanen won't fetch much so trading him just seems wasteful.

Edited July 16, 2020 by N7Nucks

[IBatch]

39 minutes ago, poet said:

I know people hate the idea of trading Boeser, but something’s got to give. You need to look at Toffoli over Boeser as not just a straight up comparison, but as Toffoli plus a high end D prospect...not to mention the assets we gave up to get Toffoli. 
 

Given the fact that I’m also worried about his injury history, I’m fine if JB explores trade options for Boeser...

First off if you believe him (JB) he’s not and has no conversations about trading him with anyone and no intention to do so.   That’s fake news.     Second off I agree that’s the only way you can look at it - a prospect for a proven .85ish NHLer, top 15 league wide since he’s arrived points wise despite missing games.   
 

Good grief.  Toffoli is a solid NHL vet but he’s not an upgrade.   He’s played with Kopitar and never was able to move up their lineup despite it been fairly thin RW wise.   One 30 goal season which Boeser would have surely surpassed his rookie year....three 20 goal seasons ...  I like him and do believe they playing with EP and Miller he could end up having more 30 goal seasons ... but he’s not an upgrade.    When Boeser peaks he will obliterate those totals.   Nobody in the league considers TT a top line player where as everyone believe’s BB is (with the exception of a certain portion of this fanbase which is to put it bluntly - naive).
 

ONE 82 game season without distractions and top six minutes will cement BB’s legacy in the league - or that I’m certain.   He’s got the talent to explode.  Bare minimum he’s a 30-30 consistent winger - best case he challenges for the Richard one day.   Sure I could be wrong but I believe his floor is like Toffoli’s peak, we have him on a decent contract and should see what he can do.   I can tell you this that no GM in the league would trade BB for Toffoli straight over.   And with Covid coming whatever his agent and him were hoping to get us not reality.   One expert said before he’d command in the 5 x 5 range (not 5.5 - not 6 and certainly not 7 like I’ve read a few posters suggest) ... he’s around the 10th best option in a buyers market for this years UFA class.   Last year we saw a few guys sign for a lot less then we thought they would.   This year TT isn’t well positioned to ask for much - Hoffman and Dandanov are better options for the few teams that can afford a good boost.

 

So yeah - we could sign TT and trade BB for a prospect that may never make it.  Or keep BB and  cut our losses.   No way wed be in the market for TT this summer if BB wasn’t injured in the first place right? Who among us would be like - hey let’s flip BB for lottery tickets and sign TT instead.   There are other ways.  Pearson.  Leivo.  Bear.  Ferland.   Pearson a trade as he’s not a cap dump and won’t further pick away at our pool - Ferland either on LTIR or in the lineup.  Bear give him some games and raise his stock or just let him play it out.  Leivo bye bye - give JV his raise.    
 

 

Edited July 16, 2020 by IBatch

[IBatch]

20 minutes ago, N7Nucks said:

If we're trading Boeser for a D prospect that's 2 steps forwards 3 steps back. And we didn't give up an arm and a leg for Toffoli. It was a 5'11 150 pound center that can potentially play top 6 if he overperforms and a 2nd rounder. It's a decent package but overall it'd be a very easy pill to swallow given Madden didn't fit anywhere over Horvat, Petey, Gaudette. And we gonna play a 150 pounder at 4th line center? Not likely. As mentioned our RW depth is massive. So he didn't fit there either. We gave up little to get Toffoli.

 

The return on Podkolzin won't be high either, not high enough to warrant even trading him. And I can't preface this enough, he'll be cheap. We're trading ELC players at a time we need NHL ready players on cheap contracts. It's bass ackwards. Let Tanny and Toffoli walk before trading good young players. These guys can be replaced from within. Woo, Rathbone and Juolevi are in the system as well. So Edler leaving may not be for years given Hughes has taken top pair duties now and Edler can add a year or two to his hockey life with that mileage taken off. Juolevi has potential in my books and Rathbone looks really solid. We'll draft a D or two this draft as well.

 

I am not against trading Boeser, but the return needs to be more than "D prospects" and if it's more than prospects we won't sign Toffoli anyway. Lol. That's ridiculous. Pod I am against trading, and Virtanen won't fetch much so trading him just seems wasteful.

Nice to see some get this.  Agree with all of it.