Have we ever had so much young talent at once?

[filthycanuck]

On 7/20/2020 at 9:47 AM, GhostsOf1994 said:

Young talent? Yes.

People forget that, Bertuzzi, Naslund, Mogilny, Bure, Linden, Ohlund, Mccabe on the same roster.

Linden was never part of that team since he got traded for Bert, he came back old and bure mogilny and mccabe weren't there anymore. The amount of talent coming up AFTER those guys though have a lot to be desired. Josh Holden, Harold Druken, remember those guys? Druks was considered one of the teams of top prospects during that time, thats how sad the drafting was. They hit though on Matt Cooke, somewhat on Jarko Ruutu and Peter Chaefer (who became Sami Salo). This version of the team has much much more talent coming up from below the ranks, it bodes well for the team going forward in the next 2- 5 years, rather than riding the same ponies the whole time

[IBatch]

5 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Yeah Linden arriving immediately gave us the 1989 Calgary series.  There was no five years of "learning to play the right way in a good environment" stuff...guy just hit the ice from game one as a winner.  And if I remember right, he was Don Cherry's choice for the Calder.

 

As for Nedved....yeah he just had a weird career, right up to coming out of nowhere as an old dude to play for the Czechs in that last Olympics.  He just marched to a weird drum like Bryzgalov, but still managed 300 goals.  That whole draft was weird.  Jagr basically scored 2000 points as the fifth pick, but the first three - Nolan, Nedved and Primeau all looked like the biggest flops in NHL history.  They all had like 12 points the first year and the whole league was scratching their heads.  Then they all found their footing and had great careers.

Linden at 18 was already a playoff driver ...  that was one of the most thrilling Canuck series ever (Otto kicked it in),  Vernon saved their bacon or no cup for Calgary yet - and without it no rivalry either.   Then it seemed like every year with Linden we’d get an automatic bye in the first round - guaranteed to win a series pretty much for years.    Know we don’t have the same support but it really was something... how many years did the WCE team win a series (was it one time?) Although they did win with Luongo his first year but that was, well all Luongo and guess who - Linden near retirement.  How many series did the Sedin era team win a series?  Naslund was still captain with Luongo/Linden vs Turco.    We can only hope that this core can win as many series as the Linden teams did ... even with all the youth that’s a tall order, especially with soon to be 32 teams.  

[tas]

10 hours ago, IBatch said:

Linden at 18 was already a playoff driver ...  that was one of the most thrilling Canuck series ever (Otto kicked it in),  Vernon saved their bacon or no cup for Calgary yet - and without it no rivalry either.   Then it seemed like every year with Linden we’d get an automatic bye in the first round - guaranteed to win a series pretty much for years.    Know we don’t have the same support but it really was something... how many years did the WCE team win a series (was it one time?) Although they did win with Luongo his first year but that was, well all Luongo and guess who - Linden near retirement.  How many series did the Sedin era team win a series?  Naslund was still captain with Luongo/Linden vs Turco.    We can only hope that this core can win as many series as the Linden teams did ... even with all the youth that’s a tall order, especially with soon to be 32 teams.  

by my count, linden-led teams won the same number of series as sedin-led teams - 6 each. 

 

linden:

91-92 x 1

92-93 x 1

93-94 x 3

94-95 x 1

 

sedins:

06-07 x 1

08-09 x 1

09-10 x 1

10-11 x 3

[WeneedLumme]

4 hours ago, tas said:

by my count, linden-led teams won the same number of series as sedin-led teams - 6 each. 

 

linden:

91-92 x 1

92-93 x 1

93-94 x 3

94-95 x 1

 

sedins:

06-07 x 1

08-09 x 1

09-10 x 1

10-11 x 3

I don't think it is completely fair to give the 06-07 series to the twins rather than Linden. While the Sedins got more ice time in that series, Trevor, despite his venerable age, led the team in plus-minus (+4 compared to the twins combined -13), points (7 points compared to the twins combined 9 points), and game winning goals (2 compared to the Sedins combined 1).

[Hogs & Podz]

On 7/20/2020 at 9:47 AM, GhostsOf1994 said:

Young talent? Yes.

People forget that, Bertuzzi, Naslund, Mogilny, Bure, Linden, Ohlund, Mccabe on the same roster.

But drafted BY the canucks... This is the best by far... Especially if Hogs and Podz turn out

[tas]

6 hours ago, WeneedLumme said:

I don't think it is completely fair to give the 06-07 series to the twins rather than Linden. While the Sedins got more ice time in that series, Trevor, despite his venerable age, led the team in plus-minus (+4 compared to the twins combined -13), points (7 points compared to the twins combined 9 points), and game winning goals (2 compared to the Sedins combined 1).

doesn't matter, it was a sedin-led team during the sedin era. 

[WeneedLumme]

1 hour ago, tas said:

doesn't matter, it was a sedin-led team during the sedin era. 

If you say so. Personally, I would say the player who led the team in points and game winning goals led the team to the series win. Much like when Kesler put the team on his back for one series in 2011, when the Sedins were being shut down by tight checking.

[tas]

2 hours ago, WeneedLumme said:

If you say so. Personally, I would say the player who led the team in points and game winning goals led the team to the series win. Much like when Kesler put the team on his back for one series in 2011, when the Sedins were being shut down by tight checking.

it's a team sport. the sedins led their team by 20+ pts that year. it was the beginning of their era. I wasn't talking about the best player series-by-series and I don't think the person I responded to was either. 

[rychicken]

About every 3-5 years many proclaim we may have the best young crop in franchise history, and most of the time they either plateau or fizzle.
This time, it does seem different - I don't think we have to worry too much about that happening with EP and QH

In the years after the '82 run, we were told we had the best young D in the league - Belland and Schliebener were going to be back-end stalwarts for years to come....

83/84D -  couple of years later it was JJ Daigneault, etc etc
 

                                                                            Age                        GP

 

[Putgolzin]

On 7/20/2020 at 9:29 PM, Chris12345 said:

Probably right but...remember a lot can go sideways.

 

Players 25 and under? Definitely not prospects but some hope in the year 2001? That's when 25 was young lol. Now a 25 year old is a vet!

 

Bert

Mo

Henrick

Daniel

Auld (great prospect)

Allen (4th overall)

Jovo

Ohlund

Druken

Cooke

Shaefer

Ruttu 

Cloutier

Holden

Sopel

Chuborov

 

Sure a lot were grinders but we didn't know that in 2001.

 

 

This is bang on - those were exciting times.

All those Drukens and Holdens looked like they were going to be great players. Schaefer and Cooke looked to be hockey players too.

That's before you even started talking about future hopes for the Sedins and emergence of the WCE.

Too bad lots of them didn't pan out.

 

[GhostsOf1994]

On 7/22/2020 at 10:50 PM, Hogs & Podz said:

But drafted BY the canucks... This is the best by far... Especially if Hogs and Podz turn out

If you go by canucks drafted only players, this may end up being an all time best players team, you are correct though.

 

Pettersson Boeser Virtanen Horvat Gaudette

Hughes, Joulevi, Rathbone,Woo, Hoglander, Podkolzin, Tryamkin...

[Chris12345]

12 hours ago, nzan said:

This is bang on - those were exciting times.

All those Drukens and Holdens looked like they were going to be great players. Schaefer and Cooke looked to be hockey players too.

That's before you even started talking about future hopes for the Sedins and emergence of the WCE.

Too bad lots of them didn't pan out.

 

Oh I remember. Bryan Allen...I was so excited about him.

 

The thing is all these guys are so sexy and most don't make it.

 

Rodin? Don't get me started.

 

 

Edited July 25, 2020 by Chris12345

[IBatch]

On 7/22/2020 at 7:42 PM, tas said:

by my count, linden-led teams won the same number of series as sedin-led teams - 6 each. 

 

linden:

91-92 x 1

92-93 x 1

93-94 x 3

94-95 x 1

 

sedins:

06-07 x 1

08-09 x 1

09-10 x 1

10-11 x 3

Sedins didn’t lead the teams until Naslund left ... and Linden was on those teams too.   His first 79 playoff games he scored 80 points ... too. 

Edited July 25, 2020 by IBatch

[tas]

1 minute ago, IBatch said:

Sedins didn’t lead the teams until Naslund left ... 

our definitions of "lead" differ.

[IBatch]

7 hours ago, tas said:

our definitions of "lead" differ.

They didn’t become playoff drivers until after Naslund and Linden were gone.   And didn’t lead the teams until they did either.   Linden was on all but 4 of those playoff series wins which was my original point - that when we had Linden it was almost an automatic by to the second round - even old Linden.   The Sedins were great once they peaked - but it was short lived and you’d be hard pressed to find one series that they were the best players.   Pretty sure most would agree to that statement- or at least the ones that watched all of them and aren’t just going by games played and stat lines.
 

  Linden was the biggest reason Luongo’s first season we made it last Turco after Luongo himself ... and he was almost retired then.   Few players in the NHL are actually better come playoff time but he was definitely one of them.   Same with Courtnall, Babych and Ronning.     The Sedins for sure don’t fall into that catagory.    And if stats are what your looking for Lindens played 21-22 more playoff games then the Sedins or 4-5 series and scored 25 ish more points then either of them.   Virtually every playoff  stat is superior by a large margin yet the Sedins had a superior regular season stat line by a fair margin ... Linden was a leader on this team from his first to last game - and the torch wasn’t passed completely until after Luongo was done his short captaincy. 

Edited July 25, 2020 by IBatch

[Patel Bure]

No, we haven’t, and our accumulation of this young talent hasn’t just been as a result of “hoarding top picks and prospects due to losing.”  The Canucks, as an organization, have landed a number of top picks and prospects from many different rounds of the draft.   
 

What I find truly hilarious however (and simultaneously sad and pathetic), is how a certain hockey message board (HF Canucks) along with certain members in the media (CanucksArmy for the most part, The Athletic for the most part) have basically tried to give Judd Brackett 90-95% of the credit for every single good pick while blaming Benning for 90-95% for every error.   
 

Translation:  “We may have been wrong about Benning, Weisbrod, and ownership a few years back with regards to the Canucks becoming the next Buffalo Sabres/Edmonton Oilers and so we’re trying to place credit some place else instead of being men and owning up to the fact that we may have been wrong.”

[Nuxfanabroad]

3 minutes ago, DarkIndianRises said:

 

Translation:  “We may have been wrong about Benning, Weisbrod, and ownership a few years back with regards to the Canucks becoming the next Buffalo Sabres/Edmonton Oilers and so we’re trying to place credit some place else instead of being men and owning up to the fact that we may have been wrong.”

Thanks, DIR. Hit the nail on the head!

[Nuxfanabroad]

3 minutes ago, DarkIndianRises said:

 

Translation:  “We may have been wrong about Benning, Weisbrod, and ownership a few years back with regards to the Canucks becoming the next Buffalo Sabres/Edmonton Oilers and so we’re trying to place credit some place else instead of being men and owning up to the fact that we may have been wrong.”

Thanks, DIR. Hit the nail on the head!

[Patel Bure]

1 hour ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Thanks, DIR. Hit the nail on the head!

My pleasure and thank you for the complement.

 

While I don’t want to continuously throw shade at HF Canucks (although I’ll admit that I enjoy it), it just never ceases to amaze me as to the mindset of that place.   They love the Canucks yes, but they hate ownership and management even more to the point where they’d rather be see the Canucks lose and be “proven correct,” rather than seeing the Canucks win and be proven incorrect whether they are even aware of this on a conscious level.    Long story short, that place just disgusts me.

 

Do you know what their number one discussion has been for the past two months?    “Elias Pettersson was a Brackett and Linden pick while Benning wanted Glass” (even though Thomas Drance et. al clearly prefaced their statements by saying that this is what they heard from some credible sources inside, but neither he nor they know for absolute certainty.”  

Edited July 28, 2020 by DarkIndianRises

[mikeyman109]

On 7/22/2020 at 12:16 AM, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Yeah Linden arriving immediately gave us the 1989 Calgary series.  There was no five years of "learning to play the right way in a good environment" stuff...guy just hit the ice from game one as a winner.  And if I remember right, he was Don Cherry's choice for the Calder.

 

As for Nedved....yeah he just had a weird career, right up to coming out of nowhere as an old dude to play for the Czechs in that last Olympics.  He just marched to a weird drum like Bryzgalov, but still managed 300 goals.  That whole draft was weird.  Jagr basically scored 2000 points as the fifth pick, but the first three - Nolan, Nedved and Primeau all looked like the biggest flops in NHL history.  They all had like 12 points the first year and the whole league was scratching their heads.  Then they all found their footing and had great careers.

Really the issues with Nedved were he never really lived up to the place where he was picked especially with the player picked after him being Jagr. The draft that year was in Vancouver and the crowd was sure mixed up after the pick. I was one who wanted Jagr. The talk was how we needed a big center and we deferred to the Gretzky like body. It was obviously a mistake considering the career Jagr had however we dont know how we would have developed Jaromir and whether he would have stayed in Vancouver. I think there was some contract issues in the Czech League that had to be sorted out and that scared the Canucks off. Others might know more about that than me.

As for young talent, this is definitely the best young roster we have had assembled here. Three straight Calder candidates, still a few more players developing and a couple more left to join the team. Competition is key to development but the fact the veterans will not play over the youth if they dont play well is helping also. Love to see what would happen if this team either does some damage in the playoffs or somehow falters against the Wild but wins the Lafreniere derby. Either way we should be able to add another good young prospect to the mix this draft or have a fun run in this crazy mixed up season.