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[proposal]Virtanen as a sweetener to move Brandon Sutter (retention required?)


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[proposal]Virtanen as a sweetener to move Brandon Sutter (retention required?)
 

Few questions:

 

1) Would Virtanen being used as a sweetener be enough to move Sutter?

 

2) With Virtanen as a sweetener, would retention still likely be required to move Sutter?  If so, how much?

 

Assuming that we were able to make the above move without retention, we would clear $5,625,000 of cap.  
 

Miller-Pettersson-Toffoli

Pearson-Horvat-Boeser

Roussel-Gaudette-MacEwen

Motte-Beagle-Eriksson 

 

If Ferland is healthy, Motte switches to the right side and Eriksson comes out of the line-up.

 

FWIW - I would also let Leivo walk (1.5 million off the books) and also unqualify Stecher (2.325 million) to clear up another 3.825 million, which would give us about 9.45 million in extra cap.  
 

In an independent deal, Demko + draft pick should be a good enough sweetener to move Eriksson which would give us a little more than an extra 7 million in cap.  
 

That should be more than enough money to re-sign Toffoli, Markstrom, and Tanev.

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Sutter is signed for only one year though. Virtanen would have scored 20 goals this season... I think 20 goal scorer sweetener to move out cap with only 1 year left is a bit too much.

 

If it were Eriksson and not Sutter, I might consider including Virtanen as a sweetener.

 

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2 hours ago, DarkIndianRises said:

[proposal]Virtanen as a sweetener to move Brandon Sutter (retention required?)
 

Few questions:

 

1) Would Virtanen being used as a sweetener be enough to move Sutter?

 

2) With Virtanen as a sweetener, would retention still likely be required to move Sutter?  If so, how much?

 

Assuming that we were able to make the above move without retention, we would clear $5,625,000 of cap.  
 

Miller-Pettersson-Toffoli

Pearson-Horvat-Boeser

Roussel-Gaudette-MacEwen

Motte-Beagle-Eriksson 

 

If Ferland is healthy, Motte switches to the right side and Eriksson comes out of the line-up.

 

FWIW - I would also let Leivo walk (1.5 million off the books) and also unqualify Stecher (2.325 million) to clear up another 3.825 million, which would give us about 9.45 million in extra cap.  
 

In an independent deal, Demko + draft pick should be a good enough sweetener to move Eriksson which would give us a little more than an extra 7 million in cap.  
 

That should be more than enough money to re-sign Toffoli, Markstrom, and Tanev.

Everything you said made some sense until you mentioned LE.   Demko is not enough to move LE sorry.  Hate to say it but you could be onto something here.   Agree Stecher is likely too steep for us now ... and Leivo too simply because we have enough contracts and need to shed some.   I was thinking we move Pearson because he’s not a cap dump...but this has some merit too.

 
Really I think a lot depends on how well the team does this post season.   The longer we can hang on and the more heroes we have the better the chances cap dumps start looking like hockey trades.  Personally I’d rather keep JV then Pearson given the age difference and the cap hit (he keeps it up and he’s going to have some interest next off season for sure).  JV can play the L side too which helps in case Ferland goes down ..  plus we still have Bear who was over a PGP player in the AHL this year.

 

The biggest concern I have with this deal is AG needs a lot of work at face offs still and another year with Sutter would surely help with that.   Don’t know what team could afford both Sutter and JV with nothing back other then picks and prospects too...likely something would come back our way that would count against the cap hit...

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56 minutes ago, Fanuck said:

^This! 

JV has shown legit potential to be a 20g+ scorer who's physically involved in the game and who, while he's still learning the ropes on/off the ice of being a pro athlete, is young enough that he could be considered a 'core' asset for a long time.  

 

Can't adequately relate how frustrating it is to see all these threads about trading Jake/Brock/Demko/Gawd/ect..

 

Maybe some ppl haven't been around long enough to remember what it was like when we had NO prospects/young kids whatsoever of this caliber?  

 

Yeah, I get the issues of the cap and contract clauses but giving away all of our depth doesn't sound like a way to build a contender. 

 

No doubt.  Cap is the issue for sure and I doubt many fans have the stomach to let Markstrom walk (let alone TT who some seem to think is the second coming of ...____ fill in the blank.) or Tanev and TT or whomever.   That said I 100% agree age matters and we definitely need as much of our prospect pool intact to help create cheap cap relief for the team if we ever will truly compete with this core....otherwise we will have to resort to a lot of the same old same old.  Well actually a lot LESS of the same old same old - goodbye depth.   If JB has 7 guys he thinks can play in the NHL they are the ones we need to start coming in - maybe in groups of 2 or 3.... TO played 6 rookies not too long ago - we could too.   I don’t care one bit about losing a lottery ticket next year for Miller - he’s worth every cent.   I do think that we could be looking at one more down year before we get over the hump and might as well just get it over with.

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Both teams sign and trade*

 

to DET: Jake Virtanen* and Thatcher Demko

 

to VAN: Tyler Bertuzzi*

 

DET needs a young goalie who can give this team a better chance to win. Who do they have now? Howard (35) and Bernier (32). Demko will want to be a starter very soon and they have to re-sign Markstrom. DET would also get in return an amazing power forward (as some here would suggest), who just keeps getting better.

 

Bertuzzi sure would look good on Petey's wing with Boeser, and then that 2nd line...

 

Bertuzzi - Pettersson - Boeser 

Miller - Horvat - Toffoli

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4 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

Both teams sign and trade*

 

to DET: Jake Virtanen* and Thatcher Demko

 

to VAN: Tyler Bertuzzi*

 

DET needs a young goalie who can give this team a better chance to win. Who do they have now? Howard (35) and Bernier (32). Demko will want to be a starter very soon and they have to re-sign Markstrom. DET would also get in return an amazing power forward (as some here would suggest), who just keeps getting better.

 

Bertuzzi sure would look good on Petey's wing with Boeser, and then that 2nd line...

 

Bertuzzi - Pettersson - Boeser 

Miller - Horvat - Toffoli

Tyler's probably going to want $5 million himself (RFA) after performing pretty well on Detroit's first line so we're taking on more cap.  Also you might as well start AHL stars at that point if you're taking him off the top of their lineup.  They are BARREN.

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14 minutes ago, Phil_314 said:

Tyler's probably going to want $5 million himself (RFA) after performing pretty well on Detroit's first line so we're taking on more cap.  Also you might as well start AHL stars at that point if you're taking him off the top of their lineup.  They are BARREN.

Well, they're in a rebuild right now. Eventually they'll be very good with Zadina, Rasmussen, Svechnikov, Veleno and Seider developing. A good young goalie gives them a better chance to win now and down the road. Otherwise DET will be like the Oilers, a lot of scoring talent, but can't keep the puck out of their net. DET would still have guys like Abdelkader, Mantha, Nielsen, Larkin - and Virtanen. Maybe they add a few more veterans (like Sutter) to carry the load until the youngens arrive. 

Edited by NUCKER67
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I'd rather just keep Sutter for the final season of his deal, see if we can trade him at the deadline (or negotiate a cheaper new contract citing Covid) and move longer-term vets. 
If Sutter plays well he can also up his trade value.

Save the sweeteners for someone like Beagle IMO.  Gonna need to shed the years with term.
Down for the Loui + Demko deal, then if Oettinger's anywhere close to sniffing at the Stars' backup spot I'd try to poach Khudobin (16-8, relatively cheap).  

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46 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

Well, they're in a rebuild right now. Eventually they'll be very good with Zadina, Rasmussen, Svechnikov, Veleno and Seider developing. A good young goalie gives them a better chance to win now and down the road. Otherwise DET will be like the Oilers, a lot of scoring talent, but can't keep the puck out of their net. DET would still have guys like Abdelkader, Mantha, Nielsen, Larkin - and Virtanen. Maybe they add a few more veterans (like Sutter) to carry the load until the youngens arrive. 

So they'll trade one of their few established bright spots... why?  You mentioned they'll be good eventually but forget that they were a historically bad team this past year.  Nielsen and Abdelkader have far from righted the ship, with basically only Mantha/ Larkin/ Hronek somewhat pulling their weight.
As recently as 2018 this team had no depth, with Boeser tied with Daniel for the team scoring lead (both the Twins and Vanek were aging out).  At this point, would you as GM have traded a still-growing Boeser to get back an unproven goalie in Tristan Jarry and a serviceable 30-point forward in Conor Sheary? (don't know how they'll pan out)

Top players in their respective position are often what it takes to win, and unless Demko is the second coming of Dominik Hasek he's going to need a D-group that can transition the puck and a forward group that can give him run support.  Moving Bert for this return does neither IMO and would probably fit in quality for quantity category.  I could be wrong and Jake could become a 40-50 point guy but he still comes with uncertainty and Demko could also be stunted in development behind a roster with next to no talent.         

Edited by Phil_314
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Virtanen for Travis Sanheim could be worthwhile. i  have a feeling we lose that deal though. MacEwan is kicking butt at camp and jake is losing his grip on even 4th line duties lol. I suspect if they sit him out they will give him a go before the series is over to really motivate him. I can't see how getting sat the first few games wouldn't be motivation of its own. The bonus with Jake though is he can play LW (i think he plays it better). So perhaps he bumps Eriksson or someone on the left side out and we can have both.

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