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Hart Trophy finalists unveiled

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2020 Hart Trophy  

57 members have voted

  1. 1. Who will win the Hart Trophy?

    • Leon Draisatil
      21
    • Nathan Mackinnon
      20
    • Artemi Panarin
      14

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2 hours ago, theo5789 said:

I get this, but I just look at the argument in both threads and they're generally the same argument. Even the nominees are the same. Personally I rather win the award voted by my peers as the media has too much bias and watches the East more than the West.

 

Anyway, I understand why there are two awards, but just think that with two different voters for it, they could both be voting for the same thing for both awards. They should have one group of voters and distinguish the difference between the two on what to vote for. But if they want to do a media/player award, then I think it could branch out further to more recognition. However at the same time, these awards are just props to give players more money on their contracts and we need less reasons for agents to inflate contracts.

 Nothing wrong with a little recognition for a well played season for these guys.  It’s a little academy awards like I will give you that - but it does matter a lot later for folks interested in hockey history that want to get a feel for how good these guys were playing  against their peer group at different times.  First and second team all-star’s matter for that a lot too.  
 

Who cares about the cap - it is what it is.    Players get paid for the most part fair market value.     Factually McDavid compared to the big three best players  is grossly underpaid (compared to their peers)  and should have gone for the max (which for sure they would have given him) but did not hoping the extra money would  help the team.   Crosby did the same thing (and percentage wise were virtually identical deals).  Hockey players as a bunch are not at all like Baseball and a Basketball players when it comes to greed.   Definitely more team players.  There is a saying that after a baseball game cabs are called for each player and they go to their hotel or airport like that.  Where as hockey players will get on a bus and shuttle as a team.   Hockey is the best sport on the planet by far - and these guys get paid nothing like the big three.  And are nothing like them too. 
 

I hate it when I read the dis-respect towards some of the best in the sport.  McDavid crashes into a goal post and blows his knee up.  Instead of taking the surgical route recommended (which would require 12 months off) he re-habbed his knee the hard way - in fact was a pioneer on this making an entirely new procedure - it involved a ridiculous amount of commitment.  He cried when he was told it could mean a year off.   And sucked it up and literally created a new way to deal with those types of injuries.   Incredible really and The information is available back East.
 

Whenever I read about BB should be traded for this or that I also wonder how many fans  understood what he went through with his back.   These guys are above and beyond as far as pros go and deserve every penny.   And if they win a trophy they have most definitely deserved it.   Hes better then ever right now - in fact an Eastern based article was recently written about him on NHL.com - great read. 


This bull-crap about Eastern bias is funny too - because of how overblown it is.   Move back East and find out more about it.   It’s some sort of victim culture some fans have locked onto and seem to enjoy.    I’d suggest for starters just subscribe to THN (Based in TO).   Anyone who has would have enjoyed the real story of who found EP and not some of the silly stories floating around here. (Hint it’s not Delmore).   And have enjoyed EP on the cover a couple of times - same as BB and QHs.   40 issues a year for $60ish bucks ... easy and cheap hockey fix.   Eastern bias indeed.   Maybe check out the Hart trophy winners the past 30 years and see how many came from the west, or the other awards too.  The Mantra everyone hates us but we don’t care is ironic.  If you really don’t care why bother even saying that.   

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37 minutes ago, timberz21 said:

Agree on paper, but I think they are playing above their head also, which is why I said they had a better team mentality which boosted their wins IMO.

 

Also Panarin reminds me of when Hall won the trophy, with the difference that the Devils made the playoffs, which is usually a big factor in the decision.  SC qualifier aside...the Rangers were sitting in 11th position in the East and were a very longshot to make the playoff in a "normal" season.

Agreed the NYR have no business in the playoffs... they should have been a bottom five team based on their roster without Panarin.   Watched Zibanejad his entire career ... what he’s doing in NY is nothing like he was doing in OTT with the same chances (he got plenty in OTT too).    He’s impressing ... guess we will see during the play-ins if they belong at all.  It’s a fair tournament structure.   For all those Kakko fans ... so far not much right? 

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3 hours ago, peaches5 said:

Okay, Mackinnon is not better than McDavid. McDavid is the best player in the game without any doubt. That is like arguing Crosby in his prime wasn't the best player in the game. Nobody is even close to McDavid. 

Yep.   Doesn’t mean he’s Hart worthy- but I would agree with this statement.   He’s a very special player and the definition of generational - and the heir apparent of Crosby in many ways.   If he had better teammates he could score 150 points in a year.  If Carlson was dishing pucks.  If Bouchard can do what he was supposed to, he’s going to add a ton of points from the back end...

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3 minutes ago, IBatch said:

 Nothing wrong with a little recognition for a well played season for these guys.  It’s a little academy awards like I will give you that - but it does matter a lot later for folks interested in hockey history that want to get a feel for how good these guys were playing  against their peer group at different times.  First and second team all-star’s matter for that a lot too.  
 

Who cares about the cap - it is what it is.    Players get paid for the most part fair market value.     Factually McDavid compared to the big three best players  is grossly underpaid (compared to their peers)  and should have gone for the max (which for sure they would have given him) but did not hoping the extra money would  help the team.   Crosby did the same thing (and percentage wise were virtually identical deals).  Hockey players as a bunch are not at all like Baseball and a Basketball players when it comes to greed.   Definitely more team players.  There is a saying that after a baseball game cabs are called for each player and they go to their hotel or airport like that.  Where as hockey players will get on a bus and shuttle as a team.   Hockey is the best sport on the planet by far - and these guys get paid nothing like the big three.  And are nothing like them too. 
 

I hate it when I read the dis-respect towards some of the best in the sport.  McDavid crashes into a goal post and blows his knee up.  Instead of taking the surgical route recommended (which would require 12 months off) he re-habbed his knee the hard way - in fact was a pioneer on this making an entirely new procedure - it involved a ridiculous amount of commitment.  He cried when he was told it could mean a year off.   And sucked it up and literally created a new way to deal with those types of injuries.   Incredible really and The information is available back East.
 

Whenever I read about BB should be traded for this or that I also wonder how many fans  understood what he went through with his back.   These guys are above and beyond as far as pros go and deserve every penny.   And if they win a trophy they have most definitely deserved it.   Hes better then ever right now - in fact an Eastern based article was recently written about him on NHL.com - great read. 


This bull-crap about Eastern bias is funny too - because of how overblown it is.   Move back East and find out more about it.   It’s some sort of victim culture some fans have locked onto and seem to enjoy.    I’d suggest for starters just subscribe to THN (Based in TO).   Anyone who has would have enjoyed the real story of who found EP and not some of the silly stories floating around here. (Hint it’s not Delmore).   And have enjoyed EP on the cover a couple of times - same as BB and QHs.   40 issues a year for $60ish bucks ... easy and cheap hockey fix.   Eastern bias indeed.   Maybe check out the Hart trophy winners the past 30 years and see how many came from the west, or the other awards too.  The Mantra everyone hates us but we don’t care is ironic.  If you really don’t care why bother even saying that.   

I'm all for awards and I think there could be many awards given out (eg best defensive dman, award for most assists/best passer, etc). I think the Hart and Lindsey is a minor difference, so if they're going to have these two, then there might as well be more. I was just saying though that more awards leads to agents having reasons to inflate contracts (when in reality they've gained monetary rewards for winning the trophies). So while I would like for more awards, I don't like what it would do for contract talks. In a cap world, agents take every angle they can to bump up contracts which is a hindrence to the teams and the league.

 

As for the eastern bias part, it may be less obvious on the upper levels of the league as there is more coverage on them overall. But when you dip down further into the lineups, there is lesser known. It's quite simple in that it's easier for the East to watch their games at 7ish their time and may not be bothered to stay up past midnight on a regular basis and will just catch the highlights which misses out on a lot of what's happening. I think that's why a lot of awards are simplified to most points generally winning because it's an easy way to not have to deep dive into thinking who really deserves the awards. Just because there are articles written about Western teams (because some writers were assigned to dig into it), doesn't mean there isn't a bias in the grand scheme. Look at TSN and SN when a Toronto news story comes out.

 

19 of the past 30 Hart trophy winners came from Eastern teams. So 11 from the West with 4 of those coming from more central teams (games that start at like 8pm in the East). In the next grouping of 30 Hart trophy winners, 18 of 30 came from out East. Of the remaining 12, 8 won by the greatest player in the history of the game.

 

Calder trophy isn't too different 18 of the last 30 out East with 12 in West (4 from central teams, so 8 truly Western teams).

 

Selke tells a different story with the East winning 13 of 30. However, 11 central leaving 6 west.

 

And like I said, this is just in the upper echelon of the league, get down further in the lineup and it's much more of a gap. That SN article of the top UFAs that you mentioned before has Tanev as an honourable mention despite being a top 4 RD and has players aging out (35+) and 3rd line forwards ahead of him. Go figure.

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3 hours ago, theo5789 said:

I'm all for awards and I think there could be many awards given out (eg best defensive dman, award for most assists/best passer, etc). I think the Hart and Lindsey is a minor difference, so if they're going to have these two, then there might as well be more. I was just saying though that more awards leads to agents having reasons to inflate contracts (when in reality they've gained monetary rewards for winning the trophies). So while I would like for more awards, I don't like what it would do for contract talks. In a cap world, agents take every angle they can to bump up contracts which is a hindrence to the teams and the league.

 

As for the eastern bias part, it may be less obvious on the upper levels of the league as there is more coverage on them overall. But when you dip down further into the lineups, there is lesser known. It's quite simple in that it's easier for the East to watch their games at 7ish their time and may not be bothered to stay up past midnight on a regular basis and will just catch the highlights which misses out on a lot of what's happening. I think that's why a lot of awards are simplified to most points generally winning because it's an easy way to not have to deep dive into thinking who really deserves the awards. Just because there are articles written about Western teams (because some writers were assigned to dig into it), doesn't mean there isn't a bias in the grand scheme. Look at TSN and SN when a Toronto news story comes out.

 

19 of the past 30 Hart trophy winners came from Eastern teams. So 11 from the West with 4 of those coming from more central teams (games that start at like 8pm in the East). In the next grouping of 30 Hart trophy winners, 18 of 30 came from out East. Of the remaining 12, 8 won by the greatest player in the history of the game.

 

Calder trophy isn't too different 18 of the last 30 out East with 12 in West (4 from central teams, so 8 truly Western teams).

 

Selke tells a different story with the East winning 13 of 30. However, 11 central leaving 6 west.

 

And like I said, this is just in the upper echelon of the league, get down further in the lineup and it's much more of a gap. That SN article of the top UFAs that you mentioned before has Tanev as an honourable mention despite being a top 4 RD and has players aging out (35+) and 3rd line forwards ahead of him. Go figure.

Sure time zones are factor ... like back West most folks aren’t home in time to see the games let alone watch them when they are juggling kid pick-ups and making dinner etc.   At best can watch the third period uninterrupted...yet it’s not that hard to watch the first period or two of western games out East and go to bed so I’d call that a wash at best (especially with PVR).  In 94 game 7 I told my boss I had to be home by 4:30 to watch the game ... we finished close to 5:00 and I had to pedal my ass off to get home just in time to see the latter half of the first period and that’s without kids and a family...and no PVR...sucked so bad only time I cried over hockey in my life.   
 

As far as trophies go the only time I thought anyone was robbed was when Lidstrom won his last  Norris and Perry took the Hart...both Western wins - and a little bit when Cujo didn’t beat Kolzig for the Vezina.    Other then that not much to complain about close enough in my books.   Sorry I don’t see the bias the same way.   Pretty sure most who have split time in both coasts would agree.   Nobody cares about the Canucks or TO where I live - it’s all about the Senators.   Local media is in every NHL city concentrating on their team.  Since half are in the western conference and half in the east what does it really matter?  Sure some history around the original six team exists - mostly because before 1970 that’s all you had the cheer for... in our family you were either a Habs fan or a Leafs fan same as the rest of the country.  Unfortunately most of that generation has died or seniors now.   Guess those folks could have some bias for sure.   But they aren’t working media jobs anymore unless your that old fossil who keeps comparing esoteric guys like Tiny Thompson to Rask (Fischler - do you know who I’m talking about) - and the few that remain are invaluable especially when it comes to all-time rankings as they saw it first hand (also why Sawchuk still is considered the best goalie ever - and why some that know better would say Bobby Hull was the fastest skater ever and had the hardest shot ever ... nobody has slapped a 120 mile an hour shot yet he was clocked doing it - and could supposedly skate 30mph faster then McDavid)....

 

Anyways I see you logic but will just politely disagree.   Leaving near OTT for just over a decade now I’ve never seen a Leaf or Canucks article - it’s all about and only about the Senators as it should be (poor me I know ha ha).   For sure there are more teams closer together in the East and that’s where headquarters are but I’d don’t at all think they are out to get any franchise or that any one franchise is favoured.  TO has 7.5 million people - it’s one of the biggest cities in Canada and the US.   And it’s an original six team.  Don’t confuse their market size for bias.   It for sure is not. 

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4 hours ago, IBatch said:

Yep.   Doesn’t mean he’s Hart worthy- but I would agree with this statement.   He’s a very special player and the definition of generational - and the heir apparent of Crosby in many ways.   If he had better teammates he could score 150 points in a year.  If Carlson was dishing pucks.  If Bouchard can do what he was supposed to, he’s going to add a ton of points from the back end...

McDiver literally had a linemate nominated for the Hart.  While the rest of his team is trash, that should take away any excuses.  Most overrated player in the game, behind MacKinnon and Ovechkin still.  He's a good player but calling him a generational talent is far too generous.

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1 hour ago, King Heffy said:

McDiver literally had a linemate nominated for the Hart.  While the rest of his team is trash, that should take away any excuses.  Most overrated player in the game, behind MacKinnon and Ovechkin still.  He's a good player but calling him a generational talent is far too generous.

Sure.  A PGP guy in a shortened rookie year at 18,  one of the youngest Art Ross winners ever without Draisaitl’s help but please do educate me.   Regular Hart candidate and aside from Kucherov recently the first player off any fantasy hockey board ... aside from Crosby and Ovi who else has managed as much has he has the past 20 years over the same span?  For that matter not many ever have.   I don’t say that lightly - wouldn’t call anyone else in the league other then Ovi and Crosby generational.   His skill set is top tier, a level above even the best for the most part.   On pace for his fourth consecutive 100 point season, this time close to 120 just like last year ... how many players have ever done that their first five years?  
 

 

MacKinnon has a much better supporting cast.   Not sure if your joking or not.   Only players I remember doing what he’s done are Hawerchuk, WG and Mario Lemieux.   That’s a tiny list but please go on.  

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2 hours ago, IBatch said:

Sure time zones are factor ... like back West most folks aren’t home in time to see the games let alone watch them when they are juggling kid pick-ups and making dinner etc.   At best can watch the third period uninterrupted...yet it’s not that hard to watch the first period or two of western games out East and go to bed so I’d call that a wash at best (especially with PVR).  In 94 game 7 I told my boss I had to be home by 4:30 to watch the game ... we finished close to 5:00 and I had to pedal my ass off to get home just in time to see the latter half of the first period and that’s without kids and a family...and no PVR...sucked so bad only time I cried over hockey in my life.   
 

As far as trophies go the only time I thought anyone was robbed was when Lidstrom won his last  Norris and Perry took the Hart...both Western wins - and a little bit when Cujo didn’t beat Kolzig for the Vezina.    Other then that not much to complain about close enough in my books.   Sorry I don’t see the bias the same way.   Pretty sure most who have split time in both coasts would agree.   Nobody cares about the Canucks or TO where I live - it’s all about the Senators.   Local media is in every NHL city concentrating on their team.  Since half are in the western conference and half in the east what does it really matter?  Sure some history around the original six team exists - mostly because before 1970 that’s all you had the cheer for... in our family you were either a Habs fan or a Leafs fan same as the rest of the country.  Unfortunately most of that generation has died or seniors now.   Guess those folks could have some bias for sure.   But they aren’t working media jobs anymore unless your that old fossil who keeps comparing esoteric guys like Tiny Thompson to Rask (Fischler - do you know who I’m talking about) - and the few that remain are invaluable especially when it comes to all-time rankings as they saw it first hand (also why Sawchuk still is considered the best goalie ever - and why some that know better would say Bobby Hull was the fastest skater ever and had the hardest shot ever ... nobody has slapped a 120 mile an hour shot yet he was clocked doing it - and could supposedly skate 30mph faster then McDavid)....

 

Anyways I see you logic but will just politely disagree.   Leaving near OTT for just over a decade now I’ve never seen a Leaf or Canucks article - it’s all about and only about the Senators as it should be (poor me I know ha ha).   For sure there are more teams closer together in the East and that’s where headquarters are but I’d don’t at all think they are out to get any franchise or that any one franchise is favoured.  TO has 7.5 million people - it’s one of the biggest cities in Canada and the US.   And it’s an original six team.  Don’t confuse their market size for bias.   It for sure is not. 

The sports media job is to watch these games. We are not comparing working joes like us. Surely their work schedules revolve more around game times where in the East, the last game would end at 1am. Like you said, they might watch a period and catch the highlights for the rest of the game whereas out West, there's more opportunity to watch all of the action. There's local media for sure, but the national media is TSN and SN and we know where their loyalties lie.

 

I respect your view and I agree to disagree.

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13 hours ago, theo5789 said:

I'm all for awards and I think there could be many awards given out (eg best defensive dman, award for most assists/best passer, etc). I think the Hart and Lindsey is a minor difference, so if they're going to have these two, then there might as well be more. I was just saying though that more awards leads to agents having reasons to inflate contracts (when in reality they've gained monetary rewards for winning the trophies). So while I would like for more awards, I don't like what it would do for contract talks. In a cap world, agents take every angle they can to bump up contracts which is a hindrence to the teams and the league.

 

All I know is we can make room for one by getting rid of the Messier Leadership Paperweight.

 

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10 hours ago, theo5789 said:

The sports media job is to watch these games. We are not comparing working joes like us. Surely their work schedules revolve more around game times where in the East, the last game would end at 1am. Like you said, they might watch a period and catch the highlights for the rest of the game whereas out West, there's more opportunity to watch all of the action. There's local media for sure, but the national media is TSN and SN and we know where their loyalties lie.

 

I respect your view and I agree to disagree.

Only the Adams is voted by broadcasters - I suppose in that case your view makes sense although it’s not like the Canucks haven’t won the ones they should have.  Quin and Vignault were the only deserving ones so far.
 

Vezina the GMs do - does that also have an eastern bias?  And all the rest including the Conn Smythe are done by the pro hockey writers association, 180ish members spread out all over Canada and the US.   Like I said the only time bias would even matter would be these sort of things - and so far going back to the late 70’s at least the only robbery I remember was Lidstroms last Norris - and Perry winning the Hart over D Sedin and it was an eastern based company THN that wrote a convincing story as to why - using it as the example as to why not all Harts were created equal, and maybe Cujo and he was in TO everyone’s favourite jealousy meter when it comes to bias.   Not sure how this started about a dialogue as to why “awards just bump players cap up” to a bias thing but I’d need some other examples to really feel it.  THN is mostly based back east and they’ve been big supporters of JB and the team so don’t see it there other then a few wtf’s early on.   Aside from awards what else would any bias real or imagined even effect?  Lottery Balls?   Scheduling?  Influence maybe?   Some of the announcers aren’t very good ... that’s for sure.   I have always like Rhudey and he’s been pretty nice to us.  Ferraro not as much and he’s from BC go figure. 

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27 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Only the Adams is voted by broadcasters - I suppose in that case your view makes sense although it’s not like the Canucks haven’t won the ones they should have.  Quin and Vignault were the only deserving ones so far.
 

Vezina the GMs do - does that also have an eastern bias?  And all the rest including the Conn Smythe are done by the pro hockey writers association, 180ish members spread out all over Canada and the US.   Like I said the only time bias would even matter would be these sort of things - and so far going back to the late 70’s at least the only robbery I remember was Lidstroms last Norris - and Perry winning the Hart over D Sedin and it was an eastern based company THN that wrote a convincing story as to why - using it as the example as to why not all Harts were created equal, and maybe Cujo and he was in TO everyone’s favourite jealousy meter when it comes to bias.   Not sure how this started about a dialogue as to why “awards just bump players cap up” to a bias thing but I’d need some other examples to really feel it.  THN is mostly based back east and they’ve been big supporters of JB and the team so don’t see it there other then a few wtf’s early on.   Aside from awards what else would any bias real or imagined even effect?  Lottery Balls?   Scheduling?  Influence maybe?   Some of the announcers aren’t very good ... that’s for sure.   I have always like Rhudey and he’s been pretty nice to us.  Ferraro not as much and he’s from BC go figure. 

Conn Smythe is pretty much awarded to the highest scoring forward that gets to the finals, unless there's a unreal goaltending performance. There's an equal number of GMs in the west and east, so who knows. I don't know what the representation is from the media in the voting. Like I've said before, it's probably not as obvious in the awards where's it's generally amongst the best in the league who are highlighted more.

 

I think I was just saying I didn't want more awards because it would give more reason for agents to ask for more. But if there were to be more awards, I'd prefer to win the ones votes by my peers who have played against me and have a better understanding of what I've done on the ice.

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I've never been much of a fan of disqualifying a player's accomplishments because he has a good linemate. IMHO, an MVP makes his linemates better, just as much as they make him better.

 

I remember the predictions of point drop offs for Hank, when Danny was injured. It didn't happen......

 

Leon is the real deal and deserves the Hart. I believe he'll win it.

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