Matt Dumba first NHL player to take a knee

[King Heffy]

Just now, Honks in Darkness said:

 

I aint going to even dignify that garbage with a click.  Time to watch some hockey.

[JM_]

1 minute ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

If you think destroying how race relations have been in the US and/or Canada is good, then I would strongly suggest a study of human history, and of human rights elsewhere in the world at the present time.  A lot of people would greatly, greatly benefit from study of the US and/or Canadian constitutions and how they have been implemented to improve human rights in both countries more or less continuously for decades.

 

You should take great care that you have a better solution than what is currently the greatest equality probably ever achieved in human history, before tearing down the system that has led to that result.

 

You are basically suggesting tearing down the system that produced a black president for eight years in a row, before one administration has passed since his presidency.

 

As I said earlier in the thread, let us not pretend things are more extreme than they are at the present time, just to feel good about thinking they are bad.

interesting. I would never have had that reaction to this. All I'm hearing is that people would like equal treatment under the law, not to change it. I don't read into this at all anyone trying to tear down anything but intolerance. 

 

[Gnarcore]

1 minute ago, Jimmy McGill said:

interesting. I would never have had that reaction to this. All I'm hearing is that people would like equal treatment under the law, not to change it. I don't read into this at all anyone trying to tear down anything but intolerance. 

 

Bingo. 

[Elias Pettersson]

Perhaps I’m ignorant because I’m Swedish, but what does Black Lives Matter have to do with the National Anthem?  Is the National Anthem racist?  If so why don’t they change it?  I’ve read the Star Spangled Banner, what words in the anthem inspire racism?  Also, there were two black hockey players beside Dumba who were standing while he was kneeling.  So those black players don’t believe there is racism?  Really confusing.  

 

Also, isn’t there other avenues to express racism and get people’s attention besides sporting events and kneeling for an anthem that basically has nothing to do with racism?  This whole kneeling thing was actually started by Colin Kapernick, a guy who was raised by white parents in a white neighbourhood who played a game where he made millions of dollars and was sponsored by a company (Nike) who hires slaves in China to make their shoes for 20 cents an hour. Not the greatest role model for racism if you ask me.  

[King Heffy]

10 minutes ago, Honks in Darkness said:

Of course you aren't. Just keep consooming media driven, corporate propaganda that purposely fills your head with completely fake narratives that are easily defeated with FBI statistics and even a grade school level of critical thinking. 

 

You will click on garbage like Huff Po and Buzzfeed articles but won't give the time of day to something that could actually challenge you mentally. Typical.

It's challenging mentally because that level of drivel is produced by and for people who are severely mentally challenged.  You're suggesting the ****hole to the south of us doesn't have a race problem despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary.  I have better things to do than watch Neo-Nazi propaganda, such as watch the playoffs.

 

7 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Perhaps I’m ignorant because I’m Swedish, but what does Black Lives Matter have to do with the National Anthem?  Is the National Anthem racist?  If so why don’t they change it?  I’ve read the Star Spangled Banner, what words in the anthem inspire racism?  Also, there were two black hockey players beside Dumba who were standing while he was kneeling.  So those black players don’t believe there is racism?  Really confusing.  

 

Did you read the third verse?

Edited August 2, 2020 by King Heffy

[Kevin Biestra]

6 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Perhaps I’m ignorant because I’m Swedish, but what does Black Lives Matter have to do with the National Anthem?  Is the National Anthem racist?  If so why don’t they change it?  I’ve read the Star Spangled Banner, what words in the anthem inspire racism?  Also, there were two black hockey players beside Dumba who were standing while he was kneeling.  So those black players don’t believe there is racism?  Really confusing.  

 

Also, isn’t there other avenues to express racism and get people’s attention besides sporting events and kneeling for an anthem that basically has nothing to do with racism?  This whole kneeling thing was actually started by Colin Kapernick, a guy who was raised by white parents in a white neighbourhood who played a game where he made millions of dollars and was sponsored by a company (Nike) who hires slaves in China to make their shoes for 20 cents an hour. Not the greatest role model for racism if you ask me.  

 

BLM doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the national anthem, but kneeling was popularized by Colin Kaepernick, as you said, in the NFL as a protest a while back, largely with respect to police brutality.  Since the George Floyd incident, it has obviously gained more popularity.  If one actually looks into the BLM organization, one will find that their platform covers far, far more things than police brutality, and some of the items might surprise some people.

 

As to the players standing versus kneeling...everyone in their right mind can agree that racism is bad.  Some black people support kneeling, some white people support kneeling, some black and white people don't.  Some support it but don't want to kneel themselves out of respect for their flag, country or veterans.

As to the Star Spangled Banner, as it is sung today, there is nothing racist about it.  The kneeling is more directed at just what the kneeler thinks to be a racist country in general.  However, I will add that there is a now-deleted (or at least unsung) verse in the Star Spangled Banner that does refer to slaves and not in a fashion that celebrates their hard-won freedom.  If someone wanted to take issue with the long-form version of the anthem, I would have a hard time disagreeing with them.

 

As to everything involving Nike, China, and so on and so forth, it isn't that difficult to find hypocrisy if one starts turning over stones.

[Kevin Biestra]

23 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

interesting. I would never have had that reaction to this. All I'm hearing is that people would like equal treatment under the law, not to change it. I don't read into this at all anyone trying to tear down anything but intolerance.

 

The thing is that in both countries there is equal treatment under the law, at least in the letter of the law.  If anything, whites and/or white men would be occasionally disadvantaged by the letter of the law.

 

For a variety of reasons, some of which get discussed and some of which don't, actual results in society in a number of measures are not equal across the board on all metrics.  There is debate to be had on what needs to be addressed and how to address it.  Some suggestions are reasonable and some are pretty far out there, to put things charitably.

 

There is also some serious debate to be had about the methodology to use for implementing change.  This, in particular might surprise a good number of people...

 

From another reasonably popular black commentator.

 

 

Edited August 2, 2020 by Kevin Biestra

[Elias Pettersson]

10 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

It's challenging mentally because that level of drivel is produced by and for people who are severely mentally challenged.  You're suggesting the ****hole to the south of us doesn't have a race problem despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary.  I have better things to do than watch Neo-Nazi propaganda, such as watch the playoffs.

 

Did you read the third verse?

Yes I did Heff:

 

“Whose broad stripes and bright stars through the perilous fight”

 

Forigve my ignorance but what exactly is racist about that?  And if It is racist why hasn’t anyone changed it?  There have been many black singers that I have watched sing this anthem so beautifully like Whitney Houston an Beyoncé. Never once did they mention that 3rd verse was racist. President Obama was in power for 8 years and never felt the need as the most powerful man in the world to change the anthem. So why are we trying to change it now?

[Kevin Biestra]

5 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Yes I did Heff:

 

“Whose broad stripes and bright stars through the perilous fight”

 

Forigve my ignorance but what exactly is racist about that?  And if It is racist why hasn’t anyone changed it?  There have been many black singers that I have watched sing this anthem so beautifully like Whitney Houston an Beyoncé. Never once did they mention that 3rd verse was racist. President Obama was in power for 8 years and never felt the need as the most powerful man in the world to change the anthem. So why are we trying to change it now?

 

I think he meant the third (now unsung and largely unknown) full verse, to which I referred earlier.  It's not very well known these days.

 

And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion,
A home and a country, should leave us no more?
Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave:
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave,
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

 

But anyway...the song basically has been changed long ago to ignore or delete that verse.

[bishopshodan]

37 minutes ago, Honks in Darkness said:

Don't expect people who get their entire political worldviews from the mainstream media and superhero movies to be able to understand how much they've been duped by the fallacious narrative of 'systemic white supremacy'.

I know right.

The whole world is such a clown show, the reptilians have controlled our media for a long time. Thank god we have a few people that haven';t been blue pilled such as Q that are out there trying to stop the pedo's in power. 

 

I don't watch videos on a discussion board but because I saw some black people posted in those on the last page... that obviously means the BLM movement is just another honk honk hoax to keep control. The media needs to be destroyed, I think we could all just gather all the truth we need from places like Reddit and 4chan.

[King Heffy]

15 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Yes I did Heff:

 

“Whose broad stripes and bright stars through the perilous fight”

 

Forigve my ignorance but what exactly is racist about that?  And if It is racist why hasn’t anyone changed it?  There have been many black singers that I have watched sing this anthem so beautifully like Whitney Houston an Beyoncé. Never once did they mention that 3rd verse was racist. President Obama was in power for 8 years and never felt the need as the most powerful man in the world to change the anthem. So why are we trying to change it now?

And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion,
A home and a country, should leave us no more?
Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave:
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave,
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

 

 

[King Heffy]

7 minutes ago, Honks in Darkness said:

I also love how you bring up the South in a complete deflection from the topic at hand, which is alleged systemic bias against blacks. Of course there are many places where racial unrest is prevalent. When you try to force two people together who historically, for many different reasons, have never gotten along in blacks and whites, there's always going to be racial tension. Trying to hide from that fact is for brainless conservatives like Ben Shapiro or the like. There are ways of remedying it which I'm not going to get into here, but this is not the topic we're discussing.

 

I'm not bringing up the American South, I'm bringing up their entire ****hole of a country.

[Elias Pettersson]

5 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

I think he meant the third (now unsung and largely unknown) full verse, to which I referred earlier.  It's not very well known these days.

 

And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion,
A home and a country, should leave us no more?
Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave:
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave,
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

 

But anyway...the song basically has been changed long ago to ignore or delete that verse.

Oh I see.  I didn’t know there was an extension to the song. I’ve never heard that verse before. Obviously it isn’t sung anymore so they did change it and take it out of the anthem. That verse does seem to be racist for sure. But nobody sings that part anymore. It’s not a part of the anthem as we know it now.

 

So again why kneel for an anthem that isn’t racist?  If they are protesting the racism of white cops I totally agree that is an issue that needs to be addressed.  But police brutality of white cops against black minorities doesn’t have anything to do with the national anthem, so the whole kneeling thing doesn’t make a lot of sense to me other than to use sports as a way of protesting. Which I don’t agree with. Lots of other avenues to protest police brutally and racism in general. 

[nux4lyfe]

2 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Well, if you're at all interested in hearing a few black voices on what you've said...  I don't really expect anyone to watch them, but these are four fairly popular black voices / commentators if anyone is interested.

 

 

 

 

 

Brah, Did you steal my identity!?!? All of them spit the truth and I follow them all.

[King Heffy]

Just now, Elias Pettersson said:

Oh I see.  I didn’t know there was an extension to the song. I’ve never heard that verse before. Obviously it isn’t sung anymore so they did change it and take it out of the anthem. That verse does seem to be racist for sure. But nobody sings that part anymore. It’s not a part of the anthem as we know it now.

 

So again why kneel for an anthem that isn’t racist?  If they are protesting the racism of white cops I totally agree that is an issue that needs to be addressed.  But police brutality of white cops against black minorities doesn’t have anything to do with the national anthem, so the whole kneeling thing doesn’t make a lot of sense to me other than to use sports as a way of protesting. Which I don’t agree with. Lots of other avenues to protest police brutally and racism in general. 

The idea is to kneel until the USA becomes a country worthy of being proud of.

[Kevin Biestra]

3 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

I'm not bringing up the American South, I'm bringing up their entire ****hole of a country.

 

Why Ed Bailey, what an ugly thing to say.

[King Heffy]

2 minutes ago, Honks in Darkness said:

I mean, the South may have its struggles but they pale in comparison to Detroit or Chicago. I'd rather live in the most run down area in the South than your average neighbourhood in either of those two cities. 

 

Don't act like America doesn't have immense problems outside of the South. There are lots of $&!#hole places in other areas as well. 

Reading comprehension isn't a strength for you I take it.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Undrafted said:

As a black hockey fan, while I'm glad to see this, the other side of the coin is apparent when you peruse the comments sections of CBC and SN.  Pretty much all of the comments there are attacking Dumba, BLM (and BIPOC in general), and chastising Bettman and the league for letting this event happen.

 

You make it sound like race relations were good at some point in history.  Nothing could be further than the truth.  This is DECADES overdue.

That's unfortunate, I haven't seen any bad comments on this but then again I avoid the comment section of SN like a plague!  I think some people take the movement the wrong way as if it's saying "Only Black Lives Matter", when it's not about that.  Anyways, it's been one of the silver linings to come out of Covid.  We need a reset button once in a while in this world.  
How do you feel about non-black people being often the most vocal and getting in front of the BLM movement? 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Honks in Darkness said:

I mean, the South may have its struggles but they pale in comparison to Detroit or Chicago. I'd rather live in the most run down area in the South than your average neighbourhood in either of those two cities. 

 

Don't act like America doesn't have immense problems outside of the South. There are lots of $&!#hole places in other areas as well. 

Yeah, Mid West has some of the worst cities in the world.  I heard something that boggled my mind the other day.  Apparently for July 4th, they had ONE HUNDRED shootings in one day, in the city of Chicago.  I still can't wrap my head around that. 

[Kevin Biestra]

4 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

So again why kneel for an anthem that isn’t racist?  If they are protesting the racism of white cops I totally agree that is an issue that needs to be addressed.  But police brutality of white cops against black minorities doesn’t have anything to do with the national anthem, so the whole kneeling thing doesn’t make a lot of sense to me other than to use sports as a way of protesting. Which I don’t agree with. Lots of other avenues to protest police brutally and racism in general. 

 

A lot of people aren't entirely sure why specifically they are protesting or kneeling at this point.

 

Racist white cops would be the go-to answer.  But the degree to which that is an issue does still need to be substantiated.  If the data and numbers backed it up definitively, I suspect we would be constantly hearing about those numbers and not a more amorphous systemic thing that is "out there."  The figures I have seen thus far suggest that per thousand interactions with the police, white unarmed suspects are killed at an equal or even slightly higher rate than black suspects.  People don't want to hear that though or are shocked and claim it to be impossible.  But from the numbers I have seen white cops are scared to shoot black suspects, and likewise black cops are scared to shoot white suspects.  Both tend to shoot their own race more frequently.  If figures exist to suggest otherwise, I'd like to see them.

 

Anyway yes, individual racist cops exist and they should lose their jobs.  And indeed they will I would suspect if their racism can be demonstrated.  But there are many, many people not even interested in improvements in policing and police reform.  There is a serious movement to actually live in a nation without any police at all.  With actual sitting elected high level US politicians trying to achieve this as we speak.

 

Anyway, as to kneeling and all of it...there are many ways to fight racism.  It doesn't necessarily have to be kneeling.  It doesn't necessarily have to be supporting BLM.