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[proposal] 2020 draft - targeting Braden Schneider via trade. Worth it? Cost?


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[proposal] 2020 draft - targeting Braden Schneider via trade.  Worth it?   Cost?
 

I am still of the belief that the Canucks have all of the pieces within their system *except* for a young top pairing calibre “all situations” defenseman that can realistically take over from Alex Edler one day.  
 

Juolevi, Woo, Tryamkin, and Brisebois are the closest things that we have to that, but objectively speaking, expecting any one of those guys to take fill the shoes of Alex Edler one day is likely asking for too much.  I would be glad to be proven wrong however.

 

I then started fantasizing about the idea of trading Podkolzin + (Juolevi) to Colorado for Bowen Byram.    The Canucks bring in a Vancouver raised talent, while the Avs add more scoring prowess beyond their top line (I.e. someone to play behind and complement Raantanen).  I figured with Gerard and Makar already there, the Avs might be willing to move Byram to us, while Juolevi could give them a little bit of insurance.   I then realized that making such a deal would be too risky since Podkolzin could very well end up being much better than Byram.     
 

Also - if the Canucks are unable to sign Toffoli, then we’d likely need Podkolzin in our system to ensure that our organizational depth on RW stays strong.    
 

I said “no” to my own trade proposal!  :-o

 

My next line of thought was Nils Hoglander + (???) for Braden Schneider (Slated to go around 18th overall at this year’s draft) but just as the case with Podkolzin, I felt that losing Hoglander would be too much of a blow to our organizational depth on LW (ie if Ferland LTIR’s / retires while Pearson and Roussel leave over the coming years, then the Canucks will be in dire need of a good 2nd line LW’er). 
 

Long story short - the Canucks need Podkolzin and Hoglander in their system.

 

I still like the idea of trading for and drafting Braden Schneider however.   He’s projected to be a big solid stay at home defensive defenseman that skates quite well.   He likely won’t be a superstar, but he projects to be the guy that “yings to the yang” of a superstar dman (ie the Muzzin to the Doughty).   
 

I think Schneider might be able to be that guy for Quinn Hughes and I’d be willing to trade for that.    
 

Would you be willing to trade for Braden Schneider?   If so, what do you think the asking price would be and what would you be willing to give up?  
 

Does Virtanen land Schneider?   Would JV be a good bargaining chip, or would you rather package JV as a sweetener to get rid of a bad contract?   Or, would you rather just keep JV? Juolevi is starting to show signs of life after battling through injuries and adversity.  I personally would rather keep Juolevi at the current time.

 

Does Adam Gaudette and Jett Woo land Braden Schneider?

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1 hour ago, DarkIndianRises said:

[proposal] 2020 draft - targeting Braden Schneider via trade.  Worth it?   Cost?
 

I am still of the belief that the Canucks have all of the pieces within their system *except* for a young top pairing calibre “all situations” defenseman that can realistically take over from Alex Edler one day.  
 

Juolevi, Woo, Tryamkin, and Brisebois are the closest things that we have to that, but objectively speaking, expecting any one of those guys to take fill the shoes of Alex Edler one day is likely asking for too much.  I would be glad to be proven wrong however.

 

I then started fantasizing about the idea of trading Podkolzin + (Juolevi) to Colorado for Bowen Byram.    The Canucks bring in a Vancouver raised talent, while the Avs add more scoring prowess beyond their top line (I.e. someone to play behind and complement Raantanen).  I figured with Gerard and Makar already there, the Avs might be willing to move Byram to us, while Juolevi could give them a little bit of insurance.   I then realized that making such a deal would be too risky since Podkolzin could very well end up being much better than Byram.     
 

Also - if the Canucks are unable to sign Toffoli, then we’d likely need Podkolzin in our system to ensure that our organizational depth on RW stays strong.    
 

I said “no” to my own trade proposal!  :-o

 

My next line of thought was Nils Hoglander + (???) for Braden Schneider (Slated to go around 18th overall at this year’s draft) but just as the case with Podkolzin, I felt that losing Hoglander would be too much of a blow to our organizational depth on LW (ie if Ferland LTIR’s / retires while Pearson and Roussel leave over the coming years, then the Canucks will be in dire need of a good 2nd line LW’er). 
 

Long story short - the Canucks need Podkolzin and Hoglander in their system.

 

I still like the idea of trading for and drafting Braden Schneider however.   He’s projected to be a big solid stay at home defensive defenseman that skates quite well.   He likely won’t be a superstar, but he projects to be the guy that “yings to the yang” of a superstar dman (ie the Muzzin to the Doughty).   
 

I think Schneider might be able to be that guy for Quinn Hughes and I’d be willing to trade for that.    
 

Would you be willing to trade for Braden Schneider?   If so, what do you think the asking price would be and what would you be willing to give up?  
 

Does Virtanen land Schneider?   Would JV be a good bargaining chip, or would you rather package JV as a sweetener to get rid of a bad contract?   Or, would you rather just keep JV? Juolevi is starting to show signs of life after battling through injuries and adversity.  I personally would rather keep Juolevi at the current time.

 

Does Adam Gaudette and Jett Woo land Braden Schneider?

Most mock drafts Ive seen have Schneider going between 10th and 13th.  I doubt any of your suggestions would interest the teams in that range 

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Too much.  Esp. in the cap era, top picks' prices are always prohibitively exorbitant (ELC's are basically gold nowadays).

Possibly young, established roster player and next year's high pick or top prospect.  If we want a Brandon Carlo I feel like we could easily get one with the 3rd rounder we have for this year, no need to trade prime assets.

Edited by Phil_314
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I'd avoid trading any of the youth for a draft pick. It's just a step backwards at this point.

 

Yes, I think Gaud would get you a mid first round pick. Tonnes of guys taken in that range never amount to a player of Gaudette's calibre... a team lacking depth at center would make that trade in heartbeat. I definitely would not include Woo in the deal.

Straight up, I wouldn't trade Gauds for a mid 1st though. Gaud may still need seasoning and is sheltered, but he has some of those top 6 qualities and I see him developing into a 2nd line center in the next few year. If he cant figure some things out, faceoffs primarily, a switch to the wing would work fine too. 

He's got great hands, vision, decent shot, passes well. Defensive awareness/own zone play needs some work, but he's still young. Not just anyone can win the Hobey Baker after all.

 

Filling Edlers skates will be a tough task, but Quinn changes the landscape a bit in that regard. Edler has always been tasked the 1D job without actually being all that elite, or being considered a true 1D. I'm happy to see Joulevi making steps in the right direction, I'd given up on him, so seeing him on the ice and looking fairly reliable and comfortable is a great sign and I now I can see him rounding out into top 4 D.

As this team continues to grow and develop prospects I expect we'll be in a position to move a quality young forward AND see that player as not being a big loss because of our depth.

 

Basically, wait it out. There's no pressure on the Canucks to replace Edler ASAP, he's still super effective, in fact he's playing better now than he did from 2013-2018.

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16 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

Most mock drafts Ive seen have Schneider going between 10th and 13th.  I doubt any of your suggestions would interest the teams in that range 

I thought he was ranked around the 20 spot..?

 

 

Edit - from elite prospects

 

Player Facts
Date of Birth
Position
D
Age
18
Height
6'2" / 187 cm
Place of Birth
Weight
209 lbs / 95 kg
Nation
Shoots
R
Youth Team
Contract
-
NHL Draft
Top Prospect eligible for the 2020 NHL Entry Draft

Brother: Marek Schneider

 

 

 

Edited by luckylager
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54 minutes ago, luckylager said:

I thought he was ranked around the 20 spot..?

 

 

Edit - from elite prospects

 

Player Facts
Date of Birth
Position
D
Age
18
Height
6'2" / 187 cm
Place of Birth
Weight
209 lbs / 95 kg
Nation
Shoots
R
Youth Team
Contract
-
NHL Draft
Top Prospect eligible for the 2020 NHL Entry Draft

Brother: Marek Schneider

 

 

 

Pronman on the Athletic had him at 13 yesterday. 

NHL.com had him around 15th 

 

draftsite has him at 11 

 

yesterday sports net had him at 12 


TSN didn’t have him in the top 15 yesterday 

 

it’s anyone’s guess where he actually goes. But there seems to be a consensus that he goes mid to low teens. 

 

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

Pronman on the Athletic had him at 13 yesterday. 

NHL.com had him around 15th 

 

draftsite has him at 11 

 

yesterday sports net had him at 12 


TSN didn’t have him in the top 15 yesterday 

 

it’s anyone’s guess where he actually goes. But there seems to be a consensus that he goes mid to low teens. 

 

 

 

 

Picks are always a crap shoot. The further out of the top 5 you drift the less accurate the players actual impact becomes.

I like Bob Mac, and a 17 ranking isnt at all bad, but lots of players taken at 17 dont amount to much.

My point is that I wouldn't trade Gaudette for that spot. Woo was ranked in the teens before getting injured and was seen to be a steal in the 2nd round.

 

Anyways, I'm a no to trading Jake,  Gaudette or Joulevi for a 17 OA pick. It just doesn't make sense. We're not really dealing from a position of strength with any of those moves. In a few years we can start looking at those types of moves, but right now it would only set us back.

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2021 draft is supposed to be deep with good d-prospects. I say we hold off on moving out good young players to draft an unknown, albeit projected top end d-man in this year's draft. I think I would rather trade our assets for an established top pairing d-man if possible this offseason and then we can draft a d-man in 2021 and develop. We have loads of good pieces to potentially move out, that could land us a solid top pair, current NHLer that would fit our young core.

 

I am thinking players like Pesce, Ristolaninen, Sanheim, Fabbro, Parayko, Severson. If we could land one of these d-men, it would certainly be a nice add to our blue line. I know the cost would be high but we have a glut of wingers and Demko could be enough to make the deal appealing to a team in need of a young, up and coming tender (Carolina, Buffalo) where (Nash, Philly, NJ) might like to add someone like Virtanen or Gaudette based on their needs and wants.

 

*Carolina has a tonne of D and could be a good trade partner if we have some pieces that interest them.

 

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2 hours ago, luckylager said:

I'd avoid trading any of the youth for a draft pick. It's just a step backwards at this point.

 

Yes, I think Gaud would get you a mid first round pick. Tonnes of guys taken in that range never amount to a player of Gaudette's calibre... a team lacking depth at center would make that trade in heartbeat. I definitely would not include Woo in the deal.

Straight up, I wouldn't trade Gauds for a mid 1st though. Gaud may still need seasoning and is sheltered, but he has some of those top 6 qualities and I see him developing into a 2nd line center in the next few year. If he cant figure some things out, faceoffs primarily, a switch to the wing would work fine too. 

He's got great hands, vision, decent shot, passes well. Defensive awareness/own zone play needs some work, but he's still young. Not just anyone can win the Hobey Baker after all.

 

Filling Edlers skates will be a tough task, but Quinn changes the landscape a bit in that regard. Edler has always been tasked the 1D job without actually being all that elite, or being considered a true 1D. I'm happy to see Joulevi making steps in the right direction, I'd given up on him, so seeing him on the ice and looking fairly reliable and comfortable is a great sign and I now I can see him rounding out into top 4 D.

As this team continues to grow and develop prospects I expect we'll be in a position to move a quality young forward AND see that player as not being a big loss because of our depth.

 

Basically, wait it out. There's no pressure on the Canucks to replace Edler ASAP, he's still super effective, in fact he's playing better now than he did from 2013-2018.

Yes, you don’t trade a a top nine beauty like Gaudette having stolen him in the 5th round 

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1 hour ago, luckylager said:

Picks are always a crap shoot. The further out of the top 5 you drift the less accurate the players actual impact becomes.

I like Bob Mac, and a 17 ranking isnt at all bad, but lots of players taken at 17 dont amount to much.

My point is that I wouldn't trade Gaudette for that spot. Woo was ranked in the teens before getting injured and was seen to be a steal in the 2nd round.

 

Anyways, I'm a no to trading Jake,  Gaudette or Joulevi for a 17 OA pick. It just doesn't make sense. We're not really dealing from a position of strength with any of those moves. In a few years we can start looking at those types of moves, but right now it would only set us back.

This.  We still don’t know what we truly have in Gaudette and OJ.  Jake is also still improving his game.  I’m not comparing any of these players to Cam Neely, but that trade still stings to this day.  

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16 minutes ago, sonoman said:

Yes, you don’t trade a a top nine beauty like Gaudette having stolen him in the 5th round 

Well you can... and even do once he's actually expendable, but right now he's a perfect fit and is far more valuable to us than a prospect who is probably 3 years out.

I bet in 3 years Gauds will be worth a 1st round pick + prospect to a contender. And even then we'll probably want to keep him for abother year.

All that for a 5th rounder.

Edited by luckylager
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4 hours ago, DarkIndianRises said:

[proposal] 2020 draft - targeting Braden Schneider via trade.  Worth it?   Cost?
 

I am still of the belief that the Canucks have all of the pieces within their system *except* for a young top pairing calibre “all situations” defenseman that can realistically take over from Alex Edler one day.  
 

Juolevi, Woo, Tryamkin, and Brisebois are the closest things that we have to that, but objectively speaking, expecting any one of those guys to take fill the shoes of Alex Edler one day is likely asking for too much.  I would be glad to be proven wrong however.

 

I then started fantasizing about the idea of trading Podkolzin + (Juolevi) to Colorado for Bowen Byram.    The Canucks bring in a Vancouver raised talent, while the Avs add more scoring prowess beyond their top line (I.e. someone to play behind and complement Raantanen).  I figured with Gerard and Makar already there, the Avs might be willing to move Byram to us, while Juolevi could give them a little bit of insurance.   I then realized that making such a deal would be too risky since Podkolzin could very well end up being much better than Byram.     
 

Also - if the Canucks are unable to sign Toffoli, then we’d likely need Podkolzin in our system to ensure that our organizational depth on RW stays strong.    
 

I said “no” to my own trade proposal!  :-o

 

My next line of thought was Nils Hoglander + (???) for Braden Schneider (Slated to go around 18th overall at this year’s draft) but just as the case with Podkolzin, I felt that losing Hoglander would be too much of a blow to our organizational depth on LW (ie if Ferland LTIR’s / retires while Pearson and Roussel leave over the coming years, then the Canucks will be in dire need of a good 2nd line LW’er). 
 

Long story short - the Canucks need Podkolzin and Hoglander in their system.

 

I still like the idea of trading for and drafting Braden Schneider however.   He’s projected to be a big solid stay at home defensive defenseman that skates quite well.   He likely won’t be a superstar, but he projects to be the guy that “yings to the yang” of a superstar dman (ie the Muzzin to the Doughty).   
 

I think Schneider might be able to be that guy for Quinn Hughes and I’d be willing to trade for that.    
 

Would you be willing to trade for Braden Schneider?   If so, what do you think the asking price would be and what would you be willing to give up?  
 

Does Virtanen land Schneider?   Would JV be a good bargaining chip, or would you rather package JV as a sweetener to get rid of a bad contract?   Or, would you rather just keep JV? Juolevi is starting to show signs of life after battling through injuries and adversity.  I personally would rather keep Juolevi at the current time.

 

Does Adam Gaudette and Jett Woo land Braden Schneider?

Ah, the old Raymond. Ballard and a 2nd for...(insert star player here, Crosby I think it was) thread comes back for more

can we just pin this thread and when anyone feels the need to dump players for a top pick/player they can rearrange the pieces

peace

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Yeah, I think we keep out young guns.......as pointed out Hogs, Pods, Lind, Juolevi, Rathbone, Woo and DiPietro

 

My question is.......where are we with Jasek, Michaelis, Gadjovich, Lockwood, Karlsson, Keppen, Focht, Malone, McDonough, and Utunen

 

If any of these secondary prospects shine through, they will give us some chips to move around in later years

 

Other wise, lets hope that Benning can pull a rabbit out of his.........ummm? Hat! That's it, hat! in the 3rd round and beyond this fall

 

My only concern about next years draft is with Covid.........who knows what we will pick and if they are actually any good.........but that is next year.

 

Lets just see how our younguns turns out!

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35 minutes ago, lmm said:

Ah, the old Raymond. Ballard and a 2nd for...(insert star player here, Crosby I think it was) thread comes back for more

can we just pin this thread and when anyone feels the need to dump players for a top pick/player they can rearrange the pieces

peace

Not exactly.   
 

I don’t think Braden Schneider (who will likely go anywhere from 11-20) would be considered to be a star player, and wouldn’t command “Raymond, Ballard, and a 2ndish” type package (atleast I don’t think?).    
 

Trading up to draft Schneider wouldn’t be easy, but I definitely think it’s doable.  
 

Here is how I see the Canucks right now.   
 

We have all the necessary key pieces moving forward, *except* for a top pairing “all situations” dmen that can realistically fill the shoes of Edler one day:  
 

-Franchise center = check.  Pettersson.

-Match-ups center = check.  Horvat.

-Franchise offensive defenseman = check.  Hughes.

-1st line sniper = check.  Boeser.

-Elite goaltending = check.  Markstrom.

-Good prospects within the system = check.  Podkolzin, Hoglander, Juolevi, Rathbone, Rafferty.

-Veteran leadership = check.  Miller, Toffoli, Pearson, Eriksson, Roussel, Beagle, Sutter, Eriksson, Tanev, Myers.

 

The only thing really missing in our system, in my opinion, is the two way “all situations,” “Edler replacement.”  The closest thing we have in our system to an Edler replacement, is Juolevi, Tryamkin, Woo, and Brisebois, and with respect to those 4 players, I don’t think it’s realistic to assume right now that any of those guys will be top pairing all situations dmen that will be able to do what Edler is currently doing for us.  
 

Hence, my suggestion for trading for Schneider.

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31 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Jake and Demko could get some teams interested.  That's a hefty price to pay though.

If

 

1) the Canucks were able to sign Toffoli (or were extremely confident that a deal would be able to get done and that Toffoli wanted to stay here).

 

2) The Canucks has other ‘sweetener’ players available to them outside of Virtanen and Demko that could be possibly used to get rid of guys such as Baertschi, Eriksson, and/or Sutter,

 

then I would absolutely consider a deal like that.   
 

Assuming Toffoli re-signs here, the Canucks would be set on RW for a long time.

 

-Boeser

-Toffoli

-Podkolzin

-MacEwen

 

With the expansion draft looming, the Canucks would likely lose Demko anyways and so signing a cheap veteran back-up might be in the Canucks best interests anyways.   
 

I’m saying that I would make this deal (unless the Canucks REALLY felt that Schneider was worth it), but positionally and stylistically, Schneider really could be “the missing piece” in terms of checking all of the boxes for this organization.  

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8 hours ago, King Heffy said:

Jake and Demko could get some teams interested.  That's a hefty price to pay though.

 

Virtanen's trade value might have just tanked.   He was not even able to make games 1 of the play-ins and it took injury to get him into the lineup.  He also didn't even reach the 10 minute mark in the games he played.  

 

The executives in the Edmonton bubble got to see him play and how he was not particularly trusted by Green.  He will be 24 this month and has played close to 300 NHL games.  He's not a young player with untapped potential anymore.

 

He has arbitration rights also.  Drance thinks he could have a case to ask for 3-3.5M through arbitration.  Not many teams, if any, will be willing to take that risk.  The arbitration award is several weeks after free agency and teams could be forced to clear cap space late in the off-season to sign him.  Teams are not allowed to walk away if an award is under a certain amount - it was around 4.4M last year.

 

Edited by mll
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21 hours ago, DarkIndianRises said:

[proposal] 2020 draft - targeting Braden Schneider via trade.  Worth it?   Cost?
 

I am still of the belief that the Canucks have all of the pieces within their system *except* for a young top pairing calibre “all situations” defenseman that can realistically take over from Alex Edler one day.  
 

Juolevi, Woo, Tryamkin, and Brisebois are the closest things that we have to that, but objectively speaking, expecting any one of those guys to take fill the shoes of Alex Edler one day is likely asking for too much.  I would be glad to be proven wrong however.

 

I then started fantasizing about the idea of trading Podkolzin + (Juolevi) to Colorado for Bowen Byram.    The Canucks bring in a Vancouver raised talent, while the Avs add more scoring prowess beyond their top line (I.e. someone to play behind and complement Raantanen).  I figured with Gerard and Makar already there, the Avs might be willing to move Byram to us, while Juolevi could give them a little bit of insurance.   I then realized that making such a deal would be too risky since Podkolzin could very well end up being much better than Byram.     
 

Also - if the Canucks are unable to sign Toffoli, then we’d likely need Podkolzin in our system to ensure that our organizational depth on RW stays strong.    
 

I said “no” to my own trade proposal!  :-o

 

My next line of thought was Nils Hoglander + (???) for Braden Schneider (Slated to go around 18th overall at this year’s draft) but just as the case with Podkolzin, I felt that losing Hoglander would be too much of a blow to our organizational depth on LW (ie if Ferland LTIR’s / retires while Pearson and Roussel leave over the coming years, then the Canucks will be in dire need of a good 2nd line LW’er). 
 

Long story short - the Canucks need Podkolzin and Hoglander in their system.

 

I still like the idea of trading for and drafting Braden Schneider however.   He’s projected to be a big solid stay at home defensive defenseman that skates quite well.   He likely won’t be a superstar, but he projects to be the guy that “yings to the yang” of a superstar dman (ie the Muzzin to the Doughty).   
 

I think Schneider might be able to be that guy for Quinn Hughes and I’d be willing to trade for that.    
 

Would you be willing to trade for Braden Schneider?   If so, what do you think the asking price would be and what would you be willing to give up?  
 

Does Virtanen land Schneider?   Would JV be a good bargaining chip, or would you rather package JV as a sweetener to get rid of a bad contract?   Or, would you rather just keep JV? Juolevi is starting to show signs of life after battling through injuries and adversity.  I personally would rather keep Juolevi at the current time.

 

Does Adam Gaudette and Jett Woo land Braden Schneider?

First off, I believe, much like Moritz Seider last draft, Schneider will be taken earlier then projected.

Many scout sites have him going in the top 15.

Gritty, sandpaper players are getting tougher to find. The fact that he's a right hand dman which seems to be getting equally rare, only ups his value.

Many think his offensive game has another level yet and he has untapped talents that could make him the steal of the draft.

As always, the price tag is going to be high and may be more then we can afford at this time.

Any team owning a top 15 pick is going to want a guaranteed winner.

Who do we have that fits that category?

Petey, Hughes, Boeser, Miller, Horvat.

The next tear would be Virtanen, Gaudette, Demko, Stetcher, Macewen, Podkolzin, Hoglander, maybe Tryamkin.

A lot of question marks there.

We have all of our picks next season available but, after just completing the Miller trade with this years first rounder; Do we want to go down that road again?

Another factor that's beginning to emerge is this teams current success.

Do we want to upset the chemistry this team is building by taking away a key piece?

My answer is,, as much as I want this guy, I'm not willing to pay the price it would take to get a top 15 pick.

I'm not willing to deal any of Petey, Hughes, Boeser, Miller, or Horvat, one of which, I believe, would be the price tag.

So I have to say no.

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