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[PGT] Vancouver Canucks at St. Louis Blues | Aug. 12, 2020 | Canucks lead series 1-0

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1 hour ago, Law of Goalies said:

Actually..if he had the desire like a MacEwen, he would definitely be a superstar. His talent along with crazy work ethic. I really do wonder why he is like that. I actually saw glimpses of it when it was in Utica..the desire I mean. The few games I saw, he was skating quite hard (the fans who watch utica more regularly can chime in).

 

But the funny thing is, I was reading one of his scouting reports on eliteprospects.com and it says as follows: 

 

A formidable adversary for any challenger, Jake Virtanen is an imposing power forward in the truest sense. Possesses a non-stopping motor and creates an abundance of on-ice energy when throwing his weight around and establishing his physical presence. Exhibits world-class skating ability, and can blow by defenders just as easily as he can go through them. Stands up for his teammates and never backs down from a challenge. Displays a wicked, NHL-level release that challenges goaltenders of all skill levels. Becoming a recognizable asset when playing a more defensive role as well. All-in-all, a physical power forward that has the character traits, work ethic, and individual skills to pose a threat to whoever stands in his way. (Curtis Joe, EP 2015) 

 

The bolded part is the part I am confused considering his performances since he was drafted.

One of the reports I read said he had all of that and one of the best shots they have seen for a long time, but a lower than average hockey IQ with a view that if he came good would be an exception player but because of the hockey IQ may become a bust 

 

obviously paraphrasing but I do wonder if the desire bit is down to being asked to do things he is finding difficult, and as such mentally is switching off 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Pete M said:

Capture.PNG

Tanev being on that points list has some foreshadowing here. This feels like....I wont say it.. This is good tho..

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5 minutes ago, UKNuck96 said:

One of the reports I read said he had all of that and one of the best shots they have seen for a long time, but a lower than average hockey IQ with a view that if he came good would be an exception player but because of the hockey IQ may become a bust 

 

obviously paraphrasing but I do wonder if the desire bit is down to being asked to do things he is finding difficult, and as such mentally is switching off 

 

 

 

I've always thought it was a confidence thing. You see him double clutching out there. He needs a coach to not throw him under the bus twice a season, and to just be able to play. If he can't do it after that, then I will change my opinion.

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Expecting a big game of JV. He’s now had 4 straight games to get his feet under him, and although he has been steady he hasn’t performed at the level we know he can. 
 

 

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11 hours ago, IBatch said:

Goldobin never figured out the NHL level - JV did.  He’s already far surpassed what Goldobin and even Bear will ever accomplish in the NHL.   People here love Hansen ... he’s really not much different..already matched Hansen’s best year.   Nothing wrong with a career middle six player as long as the cap makes sense - and so far on that front absolute aces - McJesus would have to score 300 points to make the two comparable ... points per dollar ... one year deal one million more show me deal.  Maybe his career is over after that (doubt it )....JVs got the chops for a 10-12 year career - he’s barely started IMO.

Sorry, I should have been more clear. When I said Jake's entering into Goldobin territory, I meant age wise he's entering into the same age (24 ash years old) where what you see is what you get with a player. I mean, I guess there could be a chance that Jake is a late bloomer, but I don't think that's it. I think it's more of a consistency issue with Virtanen. If he can figure that part of his game out - then watch out. 

 

With where his game is currently at - I think he's worth 2.5-3 million tops on his next deal. And I'd sign him to a 1 year deal for him to prove that he deserves what he's getting on his next deal. If he doesn't live up, then maybe at that time a change of scenery will do the player some good, and the organization can benefit as well. 

 

I am a fan of Virtanen. I want him to succeed. But his play in these playoffs and the play in, so far, have been....well, underwhelming. He's not noticeable in a good way out there. 

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13 minutes ago, Setyoureyesontheprize said:

Expecting a big game of JV. He’s now had 4 straight games to get his feet under him, and although he has been steady he hasn’t performed at the level we know he can. 
 

 

You think he breaks out tomorrow night against St. Louis? 

 

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17 minutes ago, VanIsleNuckFan said:

Tanev being on that points list has some foreshadowing here. This feels like....I wont say it.. This is good tho..

Makar with only two points? C'mon, we know who the real calder winner should be :P

 

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23 minutes ago, UKNuck96 said:

One of the reports I read said he had all of that and one of the best shots they have seen for a long time, but a lower than average hockey IQ with a view that if he came good would be an exception player but because of the hockey IQ may become a bust 

 

obviously paraphrasing but I do wonder if the desire bit is down to being asked to do things he is finding difficult, and as such mentally is switching off 

 

 

 

Like what? 

 

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I had no issues with JV's game.  What's with all the complaining?  

 

Everybody did their job in game 1 and JV played well in his limited ice time.  Complaining about any of that is kind of foolish. 

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14 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

Like what? 

 

I’m not inside jakes head so no idea/ I’m just speculating based on a scout report.

 

it could be the system he is playing, the ability to read the play and be in the right position, it could be set play moves, etc who knows

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12 hours ago, IBatch said:

Said this before the series started and will say it again.   Adding TT IF we are already winning still could back-fire.   If it were up to me I’d let him sit even if healthy until we do lose a game and then put him in.   Especially considering how great our second line has been playing - don’t mess with that one bit - if TT is ready to go put him on the third line so it has a little more teeth.  McEwen should probably also stay.   Against St Louis we need a 6’5” guy that can throw his fists fast and hard. 

I don't look at that in a vacuum.

Imo it cannot be separated from the fact the team is rolling with a true shutdown one-two punch.  Sutter and Beagle lines make the team better.  Sheltering Gaudette - as talented a young player as he is - is not a winning formula imo = it's a development formula.  It's time for the winning formula.

 

Meaning Horvat's line is no longer the secondary shutdown unit  - and Green can go back to utilizing them advantageously, in more of a true dual role.  I'm not sure I'd be very concerned with Toffoli in the lineup - he's clearly a significantly more threatening winger than LE at this point, and he's not a soft or vacant defensive forward himself.  If you're talking simpy about the "if it aint broke don't fix it" philosophy, I don't necessarily disagree with you, but the team went out and acquired Toffoli for a number of reasons - and imo he gives them more of a lethal one-two scoring line punch to go with that one-two shutdown punch they have with the luxury of a healthy Sutter and Beagle.  For that reason there is literally no chance I mess with the 3rd line - Toffoli imo is not the right fit there - I'd leave that at Sutter/Roussel/Virtanen.

 

For me it might come down to how healthy Beagle turns out to be.  If his hand mends well enough that he can resume the heavy lifting - and particularly the dzone draws, etc that he is as good as anyone in the NHL at handling - then I'm more likely to allow Horvat's line to lean towards a seriously threatening secondary scoring unit - ie putting Toffoli back in the top 6.  If Beagle isnt' healthy, it may dictate to some degree that a presence like LE is important to keep on that second line - he fits the defensive winger role exceptionally well in that context.

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8 minutes ago, VancouverHabitant said:

I had no issues with JV's game.  What's with all the complaining?  

 

Everybody did their job in game 1 and JV played well in his limited ice time.  Complaining about any of that is kind of foolish. 

I don't think its complaining. I think we all have really high expectations for JV..

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Hahahaha. Same. Marner can defend himself. 

Or Dubas can defend him.   Which I found curious - his sideways way of attempting to back of all the heated criticism the team is facing - by making it about Marner - when really, it is squarely on him and his 'build' - something neither he nor Spamaplan have managed to  man up on.  I think Dubas has too much combination of young arrogance, insecurity lurking just beneath the surface, and an overactive defense of his ego - rather than a more ruthless and honest criticism of himself - at this point to truly dig deep enough into the possible faults in the way he's built that team.  Imo they actually got worse this year - in spite of their young talent growing closer to their primes.  Dubas is still too obstinate to own it - and seemed to double-down on his determination to build a new age contender.   I haven't seen anything yet to convince that it's a winning formula - and can't think of any team that has every been particularly successful with similar apporaches (Pittsburgh may be the closest 'comparable' - but I'd argue that the winning Pitts teams had far more grit, far more experience, and far batter defensive forwards up and down their lineups to be considered comparable to the present Leafs.

If I were the owner of th Leafs - not a word I heard out of Shanahan or Dubas following this loss would suffice.  That may change over time, but remarkably, the denial still appears to have a firm hold on that managment group.

Edited by oldnews
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23 hours ago, cuporbust said:

No, he doesn't.  He has been doing this since he started here. The kid will probably never consistently put it all together. 

People have always questioned his hockey IQ but I question his emotional IQ. He is no longer a rookie, he is a veteran and needs to be more like Bo and less like a frat brat, he needs to act like Petey, Brock and the other young guns, committed to their game during the season and off-season. We have players younger than Jake with far greater maturity both at the NHL level and in the AHL. I said this before and got flamed, but if JB could convince a team to take LE's contract but we'd have to throw in Jake as a sweetener, I'd take that trade every day. Big Mac has made Jake superfluous on this team. He's been a pro for what five years and still hasn't learned to fight? He's supposed to be a sandpaper guy, but he's back to turning wide circles, hitting nobody and not making anything happen. He might eventually figure it out, but I fear he'll turn out like so many of the guys I played with and watched through junior hockey who were always bigger, stronger and more talented than everybody else because they developed earlier so they never learned a work ethic. They would eventually get to a level where everybody caught up size and skill wise. Some successfully learned to work hard, most just burned out. I hope Jake eventually figures it out, but I'm not seeing it.

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21 minutes ago, canuckleheads fan said:

People have always questioned his hockey IQ but I question his emotional IQ. He is no longer a rookie, he is a veteran and needs to be more like Bo and less like a frat brat, he needs to act like Petey, Brock and the other young guns, committed to their game during the season and off-season. We have players younger than Jake with far greater maturity both at the NHL level and in the AHL. I said this before and got flamed, but if JB could convince a team to take LE's contract but we'd have to throw in Jake as a sweetener, I'd take that trade every day. Big Mac has made Jake superfluous on this team. He's been a pro for what five years and still hasn't learned to fight? He's supposed to be a sandpaper guy, but he's back to turning wide circles, hitting nobody and not making anything happen. He might eventually figure it out, but I fear he'll turn out like so many of the guys I played with and watched through junior hockey who were always bigger, stronger and more talented than everybody else because they developed earlier so they never learned a work ethic. They would eventually get to a level where everybody caught up size and skill wise. Some successfully learned to work hard, most just burned out. I hope Jake eventually figures it out, but I'm not seeing it.

Well, some people just dont have the same character as others.  That's life.

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