[Discussion] Arizona/OEL

[mll]

6 hours ago, Alflives said:

True, but how many in that market actually watch hockey?  I’m thinking it’s not very many.  

Coyotes, during the pandemic when fans would expect to watch at home, had 16,000 people watching their games on TV.  and that’s double from last year before the pandemic.  Very large market, but close to zero hockey fans.  

Doesn’t even matter.  Take out Arizona and the TV deal goes down.  Their ads revenue is dependent on the markets they cover.  Without Arizona less money so less reason to pay the NHL.

[grandmaster]

1 hour ago, DeNiro said:

It makes sense if Edler and Schmidt are gone

 

OEL is getting seriously under rated here. He would easily be one of our top two defenders. We don’t have a player that can play at his level at both ends of the ice currently.

The only question is can he play at a high level for another 5-6 years? I would say his track record shows he’s very durable. Could still put up 40-50 points on a more offensive team.

 

How does he play well at both ends of the ice? He is a minus player in EVERY season he has played!

 

 

Edited July 10, 2021 by grandmaster

[grandmaster]

Rather than helping Arizona out with their disastrous contract, I would rather give up our 9th OA for a good defenceman like a Dumba or use that 9th OA to cap dump LE & Rousell so we free up cash for Dougie Hamilton during free agency. Dougie Hamilton is a legitimate top 5 defenceman in the NHL.

[Me_]

7 minutes ago, grandmaster said:

Rather than helping Arizona out with their disastrous contract, I would rather give up our 9th OA for a good defenceman like a Dumba or use that 9th OA to cap dump LE & Rousell so we free up cash for Dougie Hamilton during free agency. Dougie Hamilton is a legitimate top 5 defenceman in the NHL.

What you are suggesting; giving the 9OA21 away while having Benning as GM, is akin to playing Pettersson as a backup goalie.

 

No sense at all.

[Devron]

Is there any real news yet lol

[RWMc1]

Where there's smoke there's fire, right?  hahaha

 

We also would inherit a NMC. Yikes.

[aGENT]

2 minutes ago, Devron44 said:

Is there any real news yet lol

Offseason moves need to start soon with several things happening so we can talk about them instead of this Schmidt.

 

[Devron]

Just now, aGENT said:

Offseason moves need to start soon with several things happening so we can talk about them instead of this Schmidt.

 

Should pick up soon. Just a rough time of year. I’m so sick of Schmidt. Not the player just the talk 

[wallstreetamigo]

1 hour ago, Me_ said:

Ladies and gentlemen. 
we are now comparing OEL to Rathbone.

 

And not. the other way around.

 

Ladies and gentlemen.

 

I present OEL. 30 years old. 6 more years at 8.25 million per season. Already showing regression defensively and its only going to get worse as he gets older. Absolutely redundant based on what kind of defender the team actually needs. Will not get the cushy PP time in Van that he gets in Arizona so his points will drop.

 

VS

 

Rathbone. Young, cost controlled contract, full of potential to be a very good player at both ends, on a team that is not anywhere close to being a contender and has time to let its young players grow into bigger roles. Letting him play vs getting OEL also leaves enough cap to get a top pairing RHD or a 2nd pairing RHD AND a quality 3C.

 

An extra few points from OEL isnt what this team needs. It needs to realize it is not a contender and doesnt need long term albatross contracts to scrape into the playoffs. It needs to let its young players play.

[wallstreetamigo]

39 minutes ago, grandmaster said:

Rather than helping Arizona out with their disastrous contract, I would rather give up our 9th OA for a good defenceman like a Dumba or use that 9th OA to cap dump LE & Rousell so we free up cash for Dougie Hamilton during free agency. Dougie Hamilton is a legitimate top 5 defenceman in the NHL.

If the Canucks are spending in the neighborhood of 8.25 mil for 6 years it may as well be on a guy like Hamilton, not OEL.

[DeNiro]

1 hour ago, grandmaster said:

How does he play well at both ends of the ice? He is a minus player in EVERY season he has played!

 

 

+/-?

 

Lol.

[DeNiro]

Ahh CDC, where a prospect who has played 8 NHL games is already a bonafide top four 30 point defenseman.

 

Never change.

[Me_]

3 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Thats a terrible top 4 imo. Who else plays the right side though? And which of Juolevi or Rathbone, both who are ready to be regular players, are the Canucks trading to fit OEL in that left side?

Really not bad at all…

 

HUGHES - HAMONIC

OEL - MYERS

JUOLEVI - RATHBONE

That looks good to me.

I am assuming that the new defensive strategy will allow the 5OA16 to become the 5OA16 and very fast at that…

 

Could be huge.

 

Edited July 10, 2021 by Me_

[KariyaSakicAnderson]

19 minutes ago, Me_ said:

Really not bad at all…

 

HUGHES - HAMONIC

OEL - MYERS

JUOLEVI - RATHBONE

That looks good to me.

I am assuming that the new defensive strategy will allow the 5OA16 to become the 5OA16 and very fast at that…

 

Could be huge.

 

That's a good D pairing to net the Canucks one of Wright, Savoie, Lambert at next year's draft. 

That OEL Myers pairing is painful, gonna be an albatross of 3rd pairing by years end. But i guess if you ain't over paying for 4th liners might as well for 3rd pair D. 

 

[wallstreetamigo]

21 minutes ago, Me_ said:

Really not bad at all…

 

HUGHES - HAMONIC

OEL - MYERS

JUOLEVI - RATHBONE

That looks good to me.

I am assuming that the new defensive strategy will allow the 5OA16 to become the 5OA16 and very fast at that…

 

Could be huge.

 

That doesnt scream playoff quality D to me. It screams lottery pick. Aside from the fact that Green would never in a million years use that 3rd pairing. And if he had no choice then it would maybe get 10 min per game at best. Hughes and OEL on the ice for 50 minutes of each game will mean a lot of goals against. Take a look at OEL's numbers and effectiveness defensively. He is average at best now. And has regressed significantly in the last 3 years. His offense is also significantly tied to being on the PP. So either he takes over for Hughes which is a stupid idea, or one of EP, Boeser, Miller, or Horvat get moved to the 2nd unit to accomodate him, and all of those guys should be on the first unit over him.

 

If acquiring a bunch of left handed D is the strategy, just move Hughes to the right side. He cant be any worse there anyway. But Hamonic as his partner long term is just a waste of Hughes. He needs a partner that can carry him defensively and also contribute offensively, specifically one with a great shot. Because Hughes shot is not great and you can see teams starting to figure him out.

 

OEL is still good overall but is significantly overrated even without factoring in his terrible contract. He is nothing the Canucks need. So many other more pressing needs than another left side D.

[Dazzle]

9 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Again, not sure why you constantly try to put words in my mouth.

 

Lets review for the millionth time.

 

1. Rumors arent often (like at all) just made up out of thin air by the established Vancouver media. Aside from just being not the way the media actually works (which you cleatly have no knowledge of), its counterproductive for them to do so as it would very quickly alienate any inside sources they have and impact their continued access to the team. There is literally no upside for them to take such a short term gain for long term pain approach to reporting. And they dont. Ask anyone who actually deals with them and understands how the established media works. They will tell you the same thing.

 

2. I have never said the media is always right. I have said they speculate based on what they hear which for any number of reasons could be inaccurate or incomplete information. Its their job to run stories based on a lot of competing factors they have to balance.

 

3. I have never said no one has the right to criticize the media. Criticize away. Just do it from a place of reality.

 

If you want to call me down or put words in my mouth, actually put my name in tags so I can respond. Dont try to hide my name in a post like that. Talk about being too afraid of the response to act with integrity.

This post will break down to you (again) why you are contradicting yourself. Don't tell me I don't know what a contradiction is. You are just denying, denying and denying. I have presented my evidence (your posts) below.

 

1) You say the media has less of a reason to craft a narrative than GM Benning/Canucks. This is actually a biased opinion, and easily disproven by your own words. More on this later. Do not call this a "fact". A fact is that you are lying through your teeth when you say you are not contradicting yourself. I have the evidence to back this up, so it's more than just an opinion or a baseless accusation.

 

2) Sports reporting would be "extremely boring" if they didn't cook up stories is what you basically said.  -> Motive: to sell papers. In other words, you cannot rule out the media's intent to sell papers, in favour of well-versed journalism. Saying you know the people behind the scenes just doesn't cut it as evidence. Meanwhile, all the evidence that points to the media manipulating stories for profit is confirmed by none other than you.

 

3). Wait, so reporters report what they hear? And they also make up stuff? I thought you said that reporters have to make up stories to sell papers. So which is it? Do they have accountability when it comes to journalism? or are they in it for the money? or both? Either way, the media is far from as objective as you claim they are.

 

4) Again, you confirmed again that the job of the media is to sell papers (see pictures below). You condoned that being critical sells. Therefore, the motive is clear: journalists need to cook up stories to sell papers, or else it would be "extremely boring". And yet they "report what they hear", according to you. There is zero accountability is what you confirmed.

Conclusion: Saying you are misrepresented is a lazy way of excusing your own contradictions (yes, contradictions) of what you think the media does. Do they report "what they hear"? or do they make up stories? Something in these posts are off. And if you claim that all the posts mean the same thing, you have unwittingly acknowledged that you have flip-flopping on your perspectives on the media.

 

You say the media should be taken with a grain of salt, but you'd take their word(s) on stuff, even if it was purely speculative garbage, over an actual mouth source. You are biased and you are also a liar.

 

Edited July 10, 2021 by Dazzle

[ShawnAntoski]

1 hour ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Ladies and gentlemen.

 

I present OEL. 30 years old. 6 more years at 8.25 million per season. Already showing regression defensively and its only going to get worse as he gets older. Absolutely redundant based on what kind of defender the team actually needs. Will not get the cushy PP time in Van that he gets in Arizona so his points will drop.

 

VS

 

Rathbone. Young, cost controlled contract, full of potential to be a very good player at both ends, on a team that is not anywhere close to being a contender and has time to let its young players grow into bigger roles. Letting him play vs getting OEL also leaves enough cap to get a top pairing RHD or a 2nd pairing RHD AND a quality 3C.

 

An extra few points from OEL isnt what this team needs. It needs to realize it is not a contender and doesnt need long term albatross contracts to scrape into the playoffs. It needs to let its young players play.

Yeah, if Yzerman was our GM - good chance, he would be giving the Yotes the finger; unless they add mulitple sweetener for that albatross & head case (pouting after signing his retirement contract - then why sign it ?; reminds me of LE a few years back).

 

He (rightfully) earned his retirement contract but he has to accept the stigma that comes with such an overpayment.  Imo, JB should continue to build the core & depth through the draft and only add when the core can prove they are ready to compete - not.before. Also I would argue, when the core is ready players like QH & EP will be asking JB to add.  

 

 

Edited July 10, 2021 by ShawnAntoski

[DeNiro]

4 minutes ago, ShawnAntoski said:

Yeah, if Yzerman was our GM - good chance, he would be giving the Yotes the finger; unless they add mulitple sweetener for that albatross.  

 

He earned his retirement contract and just like LE & EK (in San Jose) there good years are behind them.  Imo, JB should continue to build the core & depth through the draft and only add when the core can prove they are ready to compete - not.before. I would argue, when the core is ready players like QH & EP will be asking JB to add.  

 

 

Yea and I guess McDonagh’s contract is just an anchor for Tampa right? They really should dump that guy if they wanna win a cup. 

 

And before you say well OEL makes 8.25, no one is proposing to make the trade unless his cap hit is around 2 million dollars less. That’s literally the only way the Canucks even consider it.

[ShawnAntoski]

12 hours ago, Dazzle said:

This post will break down to you (again) why you are contradicting yourself. Don't tell me I don't know what a contradiction is. You are just denying, denying and denying. I have presented my evidence (your posts) below.

 

1) You say the media has less of a reason to craft a narrative than GM Benning/Canucks. This is actually a biased opinion, and easily disproven by your own words. More on this later. Do not call this a "fact". A fact is that you are lying through your teeth when you say you are not contradicting yourself. I have the evidence to back this up, so it's more than just an opinion or a baseless accusation.

 

2) Sports reporting would be "extremely boring" if they didn't cook up stories is what you basically said.  -> Motive: to sell papers. In other words, you cannot rule out the media's intent to sell papers, in favour of well-versed journalism. Saying you know the people behind the scenes just doesn't cut it as evidence. Meanwhile, all the evidence that points to the media manipulating stories for profit is confirmed by none other than you.

 

3). Wait, so reporters report what they hear? And they also make up stuff? I thought you said that reporters have to make up stories to sell papers. So which is it? Do they have accountability when it comes to journalism? or are they in it for the money? or both? Either way, the media is far from as objective as you claim they are.

 

4) Again, you confirmed again that the job of the media is to sell papers (see pictures below). You condoned that being critical sells. Therefore, the motive is clear: journalists need to cook up stories to sell papers, or else it would be "extremely boring". And yet they "report what they hear", according to you. There is zero accountability is what you confirmed.

Conclusion: Saying you are misrepresented is a lazy way of excusing your own contradictions (yes, contradictions) of what you think the media does. Do they report "what they hear"? or do they make up stories? Something in these posts are off. And if you claim that all the posts mean the same thing, you have unwittingly acknowledged that you have flip-flopping on your perspectives on the media.

 

You say the media should be taken with a grain of salt, but you'd take their word(s) on stuff, even if it was purely speculative garbage, over an actual mouth source. You are biased and you are also a liar.

 

Yeah, media credibility these days are (pretty much) non existence and they only have themselves to blame.   Like I stated before, the only exception will be the one's that have a good reputation(s).

 

Edited July 10, 2021 by ShawnAntoski

[86Viking]

2 hours ago, grandmaster said:

Rather than helping Arizona out with their disastrous contract, I would rather give up our 9th OA for a good defenceman like a Dumba or use that 9th OA to cap dump LE & Rousell so we free up cash for Dougie Hamilton during free agency. Dougie Hamilton is a legitimate top 5 defenceman in the NHL.

Dumba is gonna be exposed in expansion, why would we offer 9th overall for a 180lb rhd. We need a solid defensive rhd, so sign Hamonic and then try to get someone else like Larsson or David Savard.