[Discussion] Arizona/OEL

[JM_]

50 minutes ago, oldnews said:

I'm not sure Arizona will have the leverage in this situation to demand the principal they may have otherwise been able to - had OEL not had a NMC - had the entire league not been in a covid economic crunch, and had they not created this tire fire from within where they need to deal their franchise player.

 

I'd start with Drouin if I'm Montreal and add pieces like Fleury, Lekhonen, perhaps a pick or two, a placeholder like Kulak.... I joked in the other thread about a lowball like this (meaning I think the principal element - Drouin - is a lowball)  - but players don't always return what is expected, particularly when you add the length of this contract to the variables.  If I'm Montreal, I'm also trying to 'relieve' them of Dvorak (and his 4.45 million) in the process.  I'd love to see Montreal take them to the cleaners.  If Dvorak were included perhaps Poehling goes the other way....?

 

Someone might throw a player like Kotkaniemi at Arizona - I would not - however -  at the same time, how many teams will be in a position to move the assets, have the cap (ie to move an ELC as the principal), and be on OEL's list of acceptable destinations.   For me - that looks like a relatively short list where Arizona's leverage could be debatable.

 

Arizona has also gone about their 'rething' = "improperly" lol.

 

Soderberg and Goligoski (and Richardson) = 35 yrs old

Kessel, Grabner, Hjalmarsson = 33

Demers 32

Ranta 31

Stepan 30

 

6 of their top 8 minute munchers are in that list - and both their goaltenders.

Hall is on the verge of 29 (he's one of the two not there - and he's a UFA - as are Soderberg and Richardson).

 

They're not that young a team.  They were acting like a "win now" franchise.  They probably won't be looking for a string of futures - but an asset or two that keeps them competitive.

But all factors that can be considererd - I don't go into that negotiation (ie if I'm Montreal) - with a 'must have' approach.  I'd have a 'take it or leave it' approach - and if someone else wants to give them Matthews - so be it.  If I'm the Leafs I probably want players like Keller, Chychrun as opposed to continuing to go short-game, all in on their short core.

 

 

 

yeah rethings don't always do well... where have I see that before 

 

I'd have to think that AZ is holding out for a 1st round pick in this as well. In that case NJ would be a prime spot, and he may not care where he goes just somewhere on the up. 

 

But Bergevin might move that 1st, it would certainly put them into contention to bring in OEL. 

 

 

[86Viking]

33 minutes ago, canuktravella said:

your dreaming if u think petey isnt getting paid large 

and Hughes

[BoKnows]

He'll be 36 when that contract is done, no thanks.

[Provost]

Wow... now that is a player you kind of push a decent amount of chips in for.  His performance has dropped a bit, but he is also on a crappy franchise.  You would think there are a very few teams that he would agree to be traded to, our Swedish connection and near future contending window would put us near the top of the pile if we could swing it.  It would have to be a situation where OEL is pretty much forcing a trade so you can get him at a decent value and not a market rate auction price.  Maybe our Swedish mafia can give him a call to convince him to drastically reduce his list of trade destinations 

Having a right side of
Hughes
OEL
Edler

 

Would be pretty remarkable, and mean the left side can mostly be complementary guys.  It also means you have a #1 D on the ice for almost the whole game with each of Hughes and OEL eating up 22-25 minutes a night.

Hughes-Tanev
OEL-Myers
Edler- Stecher

The cost would be whatever it would take to exit from Eriksson. Plus probably something like Virtanen, Juolevi or Demko, lottery protected 1st round pick... maybe we could get a cap dump in including Eriksson who will have less cash owed or just Baertschi who could be on their roster in the short term.

In the long term we could afford it, especially since we are likely stuck with bridge deals for both Hughes and Petterson already.  The expiring vets get replaced by Podkolzin, Hoglander, Lind in pretty short order.  Suddenly we would be basically set for 5 years with no major pieces to need, and just slowly filtering in kids as they develop.  We would also have a decent chance of having surplus young pieces that could be traded for more futures to keep the pipeline going.

Edited August 27, 2020 by Provost

[kloubek]

As much as I would *love* him here, we have enough salary issues without trying to factor his contract into our cap.

 

Just imagine though, eh? Hughes and Oliver.

 

Eriksson, Virtanen, Juolevi, Woo, Sutter, our 2021 2nd and our 2022 3rd. Probably not enough.

[Me_]

Getting OEL would be a Hughes waste.

[EternalCanuckFan]

OEL for Matthews is intriguing.  Can't be 1-for-1 but it might be good for both teams.

 

Leafs would have a bit of a hole at C but the Tavares signing really did mess up their cap structure.  It would be quite a shock for them to move on from Matthews but it's also clear that their biggest need is on the blueline and they are way too forward heavy on the cap.

 

I don't think the Leafs are as worried about LHD/RHD playing on their opposite side, but if they did acquire OEL, it would mean that their LHD positions are fully loaded (OEL, Rielly, Muzzin) but RHD is quite weak (they only have Holl and Liljegren under contract next season - at least among those who have played at least some NHL games).  Of course, they're probably going after a RHD like Pietrangelo or Subban so maybe that's less of an issue.

[Sell.the.team]

2 hours ago, BoKnows said:

He'll be 36 when that contract is done, no thanks.

cause elite defenseman typically tail off before they are 36....

[qwijibo]

2 hours ago, kloubek said:

As much as I would *love* him here, we have enough salary issues without trying to factor his contract into our cap.

 

Just imagine though, eh? Hughes and Oliver.

 

Eriksson, Virtanen, Juolevi, Woo, Sutter, our 2021 2nd and our 2022 3rd. Probably not enough.

That’s brutal for Arizona.  They have way worse cap issues than Vancouver and you want them to take 2 cap dumps, a pending RFA bottom 6 forward with arbitration rights, two unproven D prospects (one with extensive injury history) and a 2nd and 3rd pick.  Neither of which is in this years draft.  
 

They don’t get a high end piece in return and literally don’t have the cap space to take on the extra  $3+M

 

[Elias Pettersson]

14 hours ago, MoneypuckOverlord said:

 

I don't think Dubas is stupid enough to add another 8 million dollar right now with the cap not going anywhere the next 2 seasons.  

He may surprise you...  

[kloubek]

4 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

That’s brutal for Arizona.  They have way worse cap issues than Vancouver and you want them to take 2 cap dumps, a pending RFA bottom 6 forward with arbitration rights, two unproven D prospects (one with extensive injury history) and a 2nd and 3rd pick.  Neither of which is in this years draft.  
 

They don’t get a high end piece in return and literally don’t have the cap space to take on the extra  $3+M

 

Well with upcoming contracts, we certainly don't have future room. If Hall moves on, they should have plenty, no?

 

But yeah - it is underpayment. Quality not quantity. Like I said... one can dream.

[Elias Pettersson]

48 minutes ago, The.Burrowers said:

cause elite defenseman typically tail off before they are 36....

Nick says hi...

 

[Sell.the.team]

8 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Nick says hi...

 

I was being sarcastic...

[24K PureCool]

18 hours ago, MoneypuckOverlord said:

 

I don't think Dubas is stupid enough to add another 8 million dollar right now with the cap not going anywhere the next 2 seasons.  

Never underestimate Dubas

[rekker]

6 hours ago, EternalCanuckFan said:

OEL for Matthews is intriguing.  Can't be 1-for-1 but it might be good for both teams.

 

Leafs would have a bit of a hole at C but the Tavares signing really did mess up their cap structure.  It would be quite a shock for them to move on from Matthews but it's also clear that their biggest need is on the blueline and they are way too forward heavy on the cap.

 

I don't think the Leafs are as worried about LHD/RHD playing on their opposite side, but if they did acquire OEL, it would mean that their LHD positions are fully loaded (OEL, Rielly, Muzzin) but RHD is quite weak (they only have Holl and Liljegren under contract next season - at least among those who have played at least some NHL games).  Of course, they're probably going after a RHD like Pietrangelo or Subban so maybe that's less of an issue.

I think Matthews for OEL plus would work if TO still had Kadri for a second line centre roll.

[WHL rocks]

20 hours ago, PunjabiCanucks said:

Or Toronto packages Nylander and Pens 1st round pick for OEL?

Yep.. saw this report earlier and thought TML will offer Nylander and Pens 1st..

 

JB should offer Boeser plus... would love OEL on this team. He clearly needs a change and I think he will be great on a team like the Canucks or TML..

[sassbs]

15 hours ago, DonaldBrashear said:

No thanks. Quinn Hughes is going to be getting $10m a year. We can't afford $17m for two defensemen.

In NHL 20 hughes only asked for 7.5 million over 4 years 

[Provost]

15 hours ago, DonaldBrashear said:

No thanks. Quinn Hughes is going to be getting $10m a year. We can't afford $17m for two defensemen.

There is no way we are signing either guy to a max term deal at those kind of dollars.  It is doubtful any players in the whole league hit the $10 Million mark in the next couple years.  There just isn’t enough money in the system to do that with no cap inflation.

 

It makes more sense for both sides to do a bridge deal while the cap constraints are in place... then negotiate a max term deal 4 years from now under different economic conditions.  It also allows them to end up getting paid well into their 30’s.

 

Bridge deals for RFAs are normally pretty reasonable.  Matching 4 year deals for both our stars is probably $7-7.5 million AAV.  

Edited August 28, 2020 by Provost

[King Heffy]

4 hours ago, Provost said:

There is no way we are signing either guy to a max term deal at those kind of dollars.  It is doubtful any players in the whole league hit the $10 Million mark in the next couple years.  There just isn’t enough money in the system to do that with no cap inflation.

 

It makes more sense for both sides to do a bridge deal while the cap constraints are in place... then negotiate a max term deal 4 years from now under different economic conditions.  It also allows them to end up getting paid well into their 30’s.

 

Bridge deals for RFAs are normally pretty reasonable.  Matching 4 year deals for both our stars is probably $7-7.5 million AAV.  

Also keeps them under club control for longer.  Better for everyone involved right now.  Doubt any player with an expiring ELC gets an extension taking them into UFA while the cap is flat.

[qwijibo]

5 hours ago, Provost said:

There is no way we are signing either guy to a max term deal at those kind of dollars.  It is doubtful any players in the whole league hit the $10 Million mark in the next couple years.  There just isn’t enough money in the system to do that with no cap inflation.

 

It makes more sense for both sides to do a bridge deal while the cap constraints are in place... then negotiate a max term deal 4 years from now under different economic conditions.  It also allows them to end up getting paid well into their 30’s.

 

Bridge deals for RFAs are normally pretty reasonable.  Matching 4 year deals for both our stars is probably $7-7.5 million AAV.  

Keep in mind that just about every double digit contract in the league was signed when the cap was lower than it is now.  Top end players will always get their money.