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Teemu Selänne

[Discussion] Under the radar UFAs & Minor Signings

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Just a discussion jumping off point, but wondering if people have depth/smaller signing UFAs they'd like to see Canucks nab. Also: I think COVID is gonna create a lot of less predictable contracts, and now that Vancouver is a winning team they may have to overpay a little less. Here's a few that I've been thinking of:

 

Kevin Shattenkirk - 2.5-4M a year: 31 y/o, right handed defenseman. Took a small 1.3M deal after being bought out by NYR. Stayed healthy this year and put up 34 points in 70 games. Been logging bottom pairing minutes in the playoffs other than OT games. Tampa has a number of D to sign, so he'll probably walk. Still has one year left of being paid by NYR so may be had on a cheaper contract. Could really help Edler on the 2nd PP - however would not be a suitable replacement for Tanev if he walks. Also worth noting from the Athletic: The ‘Pied Piper’: 6 of Kevin Shattenkirk’s coaches say he was born to lead .

 

Zach Bogosian - 1.5-1.75M a year: After a bitter ending with Buffalo, the 6'3, 226 pound right-handed once highly touted D, signed with Tampa. Still only 30, he's in his first playoffs- and he's playing like a player who wants to win (...or maybe wants a new contract..?). He's +5, has 4 assists in 12 playoff games (including a beauty diving pass). He's averaging 19 minutes & 2 hits per game. He was the 3rd overall draft pick in 2008 (after Stamkos and Doughty) and has 194 points in 644 games. I see him as a possible upgrade on Benn, or a replacement for Fanta if he walks.

 

Ty Rattie - PTO or league minimum: Rattie's a current UFA from the KHL, after spending 1 season there. He has 30 points in 99 NHL games - but has only ever really played one long stint in the NHL. For some fans, you might remember the pre-season where he scored 7 goals in 4 games with the Oilers when given playing time - he also had 9 points in his first 14 regular season games with the Oil. After Hitchcock took over for the Oilers, Rattie was seemingly bounced from much opportunity. He seems to have found a bit of swagger again with 34 points in 52 KHL games. He's been a force at every level besides the NHL and he's still only 27. But why Rattie specifically? He put up legendary WHL playoff points (69 points in his last 42 games, 91 points in 63 games total) in two runs to the Memorial Cup under none other than coach Travis Green. Could be used an injury filler/PP specialist under Green if he had a good training camp - at maybe max out at Chad Larose circa mid-to-late 2000s type (ok I don't know why my brain works like this).

 

Tyler Pitlick - 2-2.5M a year: Pitlick has turned into a solid role player under his last two coaches - AV & Hitchcock. He's been a third liner for AV in the playoffs this year, and is tied for 3rd on Philly in hits with 30 in 13 games, hes also 3rd on the team in takeaways - along with 3 points. He's right-handed and can play RW (which he is now, beside Laughton) and C. He's solid at 6'2, 200 pounds. While this may seem like an overpayment for a 4th line RW - he's someone who can step up to the top-9 (he's had 27, and 20 point seasons) when there's an injury in any forward position. He's been trusted by AV to be a 2nd unit PKer at times this playoffs, and as someone with only 248 games under his belt I see him as potentially having big PK potential. If Virt is gonna be relied on in the top-9 I see Pitlick as a good 4th line RWer.

 

Pat Maroon - 1.8-2M: I think a lot of people were pretty shocked when Maroon signed for only 900,000/1 year last off-season. He's a clutch playoff performer for a bottom-6 winger- who before this year had 34 playoff points in 74 games. He's a bottom 6 player who can easily put up over 30 points when given the opportunity - at 236 pounds he's huge, but can also skate. He's not the fiercest player for his size - he's 5th on Tampa on hits this playoffs, same as he was for St.Louis when he won the cup. But when given a specific mission he is able to answer the call - and would probably have helped against Reaves so far this series. When he signed his last contract - people speculated it was for another chance to win & in a tax-free state. The Canucks could double his money and give him another playoff run. The only thing is - he's a LW and Roussel and Motte have both proven to be solid bottom-6 LWers.

Edited by Teemu Selänne

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Three of your five choices are playing in Florida, which has a favourable tax scheme compared to Vancouver.  The fourth is outside of the country and is probably also benefitting from a favourable tax scheme compared to Vancouver.

 

Not everyone is willing to take a government-mandated pay-cut to play in a Canadian market.  When you factor in the offset for taxes in their negotiated salaries, the end result is that penny-grubbing fans will complain about the comparative cap hit vs. "production".

 

When faced with this conundrum, pretty sure most players would be: 

no-thanks-im-good.jpg

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This is unrelated to you post (sorry), but I’m happy for Tyler Pitlick as I had him on my fantasy hockey team back in 2018.

 

E.Kane-Monahan-Tuch

Meier-Trocheck-Niedereiter

Helm-Berglund-Pitlick

B.Pouliot-Sissons-Glendenning

 

Hedman-Montour

Dumoulin-M.Benning

Bouwmeister-Juulsen

 

Gibson

Markstrom

 

So yeah - I like Pitlick and am happy that he panned out.  
 

As far as the rest of your post goes, I think Shattenkirk wants to stay in America while Maroon prefers to be near St.Louis so that he can be close to his son.  
 

Given the Canucks’ cap situation, the Nucks are probably better off right now trying to re-sign their guys and promoting from within rather than going after UFA’s.

Edited by DarkIndianRises

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Retaining Leivo on a cheap 1 yr deal is my easy logical target for the Canucks. Have to think 1 or maybe both of Toffoli and Virtanen won't be back. So giving Leivo a 1 yr prove your healthy deal for the same cap hit maybe even less is worth it. Could be a 20g guy if he gets some PP time, also could be a trade chip for a draft pick at the deadline.

 

RHD options:

 

Byfuglien- high risk player depending on health and term/$ he wants. Might want to play in USA tho?

Schultz- cheaper short term offensive rhd option vs Barrie

Hamonic- Tanev type replacement player for less $ than Tanev 

Gudas- physical stay at home D short term deal

K. Miller- Former Bruin player knows JB, was injured- could be cheap 1 yr deal or PTO player

L. Schenn- 1yr 1m type of player

 

C/F:

 

Mi. Granlund- offensive minded player

Eakin- gritty bottom 6C if we move Sutter could be a cheaper option as replacement to help Gaudette?

Haula- Speedy C

Richardson- depth C, liked how he played here in the past

Girgenson- depth, maybe has some upside offensively?

Grant- physical BC boy 

Simmonds- depth, some grit left in him maybe?

McCarron- pto?

Hanzal- if he can ever be healthy i dunno

Martin- depth tough guy, may play 60 games but will be playoff regular

Clifford- physical 4th line presence

Jurco- pto?

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We need to have room in our organization for our young guys to keep progressing.  

 

Kole Lind and Zack MacEwen should be given a chance to be 13th and 14th forwards.  We can't really do much with Loui and Ferland.  They're solid, proven NHL guys that won't be going anywhere (except for LTIR for Ferland possibly).  

 

So unless we decided that we don't want Virtanen or Leivo back, I don't really see much room for outside free agents....  and I'm just talking about forwards.  

 

On defense we have two very solid options knocking on the door in Juolevi and Rafferty.  I'm excited about Rathbone as well, but he's got a year in the AHL to go before we pencil him in anywhere.  I definitely want to resign Fanta as he's been a great players for us this year.  Stecher is the only guy that I'd hate to lose, but also does present a pretty straight forward way to upgrade.  We would definitely miss Stecher's fighting spirit and compete level. 

26 minutes ago, Canuckster86 said:

 

L. Schenn- 1yr 1m type of player

 

Grant- physical BC boy 

These are the only two guys that I'd consider going after, but mostly Schenn. 

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37 minutes ago, Canuckster86 said:

Retaining Leivo on a cheap 1 yr deal is my easy logical target for the Canucks. Have to think 1 or maybe both of Toffoli and Virtanen won't be back. So giving Leivo a 1 yr prove your healthy deal for the same cap hit maybe even less is worth it. Could be a 20g guy if he gets some PP time, also could be a trade chip for a draft pick at the deadline.

 

RHD options:

 

Byfuglien- high risk player depending on health and term/$ he wants. Might want to play in USA tho?

Schultz- cheaper short term offensive rhd option vs Barrie

Hamonic- Tanev type replacement player for less $ than Tanev 

Gudas- physical stay at home D short term deal

K. Miller- Former Bruin player knows JB, was injured- could be cheap 1 yr deal or PTO player

L. Schenn- 1yr 1m type of player

 

C/F:

 

Mi. Granlund- offensive minded player

Eakin- gritty bottom 6C if we move Sutter could be a cheaper option as replacement to help Gaudette?

Haula- Speedy C

Richardson- depth C, liked how he played here in the past

Girgenson- depth, maybe has some upside offensively?

Grant- physical BC boy 

Simmonds- depth, some grit left in him maybe?

McCarron- pto?

Hanzal- if he can ever be healthy i dunno

Martin- depth tough guy, may play 60 games but will be playoff regular

Clifford- physical 4th line presence

Jurco- pto?

I could see the Canucks parting ways with ONE of Toffoli or Virtanen, but definitely not both.   Leivo, ideally, and at full health, is a 3rd line winger.   

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I'd dump Jordie to sign Bogosian for $1.5 million, esp. if the team can acquire a pick and gain cap space.  Liked the quick move he made in this playoff against Boston.

Also, if Tanev and or Stecher go, I'd go for Hamonic/ Gudas (if Chris goes) and Kevan Miller at the same $2.5 million (if Stecher goes for $3).  No thanks to any of the wingers in the OP though, we'd filled to the brim with wings.

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Of the players first mentioned I would definitely consider a bid for Zach if he was available for the right price.

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51 minutes ago, Phil_314 said:

I'd dump Jordie to sign Bogosian for $1.5 million, esp. if the team can acquire a pick and gain cap space.  Liked the quick move he made in this playoff against Boston.

Also, if Tanev and or Stecher go, I'd go for Hamonic/ Gudas (if Chris goes) and Kevan Miller at the same $2.5 million (if Stecher goes for $3).  No thanks to any of the wingers in the OP though, we'd filled to the brim with wings.

Bogo has been decent for Tampa in playoffs, unless he signs to stay in TB for less I would assume he could get quite a bit more on the open market

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On 9/1/2020 at 10:07 AM, Fanuck said:

Would like JB to just focus on getting our own guys signed first. 

I pretty much agree with this, and I'm not saying the Canucks should sign all these players - but there will probably be some FA movement and these are some depth players and one or two of them could be good additions IMO.

 

On 9/1/2020 at 10:13 AM, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

Three of your five choices are playing in Florida, which has a favourable tax scheme compared to Vancouver.  The fourth is outside of the country and is probably also benefitting from a favourable tax scheme compared to Vancouver.

 

Not everyone is willing to take a government-mandated pay-cut to play in a Canadian market.  When you factor in the offset for taxes in their negotiated salaries, the end result is that penny-grubbing fans will complain about the comparative cap hit vs. "production"

I tried to address the tax differences in the post - almost all are being offered significantly more money. None are a given but to play on a winner and get a raise in COVID times might be tempting...esp. given that these FLA times might not have space for all these players next year.

 

On 9/1/2020 at 10:14 AM, DarkIndianRises said:

As far as the rest of your post goes, I think Shattenkirk wants to stay in America while Maroon prefers to be near St.Louis so that he can be close to his son.  

 

Given the Canucks’ cap situation, the Nucks are probably better off right now trying to re-sign their guys and promoting from within rather than going after UFA’s.

Righttt.... I think I remember hearing that somewhere about Shattenkirk as well, but I can't remember where. Might not be a fit in that case

 

On 9/1/2020 at 11:11 AM, Canuckster86 said:

Retaining Leivo on a cheap 1 yr deal is my easy logical target for the Canucks. Have to think 1 or maybe both of Toffoli and Virtanen won't be back. So giving Leivo a 1 yr prove your healthy deal for the same cap hit maybe even less is worth it. Could be a 20g guy if he gets some PP time, also could be a trade chip for a draft pick at the deadline.

 

RHD options:

 

Byfuglien- high risk player depending on health and term/$ he wants. Might want to play in USA tho?

Schultz- cheaper short term offensive rhd option vs Barrie

Hamonic- Tanev type replacement player for less $ than Tanev 

Gudas- physical stay at home D short term deal

K. Miller- Former Bruin player knows JB, was injured- could be cheap 1 yr deal or PTO player

L. Schenn- 1yr 1m type of player

 

C/F:

 

Mi. Granlund- offensive minded player

Eakin- gritty bottom 6C if we move Sutter could be a cheaper option as replacement to help Gaudette?

Haula- Speedy C

Richardson- depth C, liked how he played here in the past

Girgenson- depth, maybe has some upside offensively?

Grant- physical BC boy 

Simmonds- depth, some grit left in him maybe?

McCarron- pto?

Hanzal- if he can ever be healthy i dunno

Martin- depth tough guy, may play 60 games but will be playoff regular

Clifford- physical 4th line presence

Jurco- pto?

Would be absolutely stoked if Simmonds signed a cheap enough contract to fit on the Canucks. He was highly targetted by Benning in Feb/2020 & incl. Vancouver in teams he wouldn't block a trade to. He's only 32 and still put up decent numbers last year - maybe entering a full-time bottom-6 chapter of his career but having both Motte & Simmonds or Roussel & Simmonds on a line would be great.

 

I agree Hamonic would be a great replacement if Tanev walks/demands too much. Like a lot of other players on this list, esp: Buff, Granlund, Grant and Jurco on a PTO.

 

On 9/1/2020 at 11:16 AM, Down by the River said:

Tyler Pitlick is definitely a guy to target IMO. Brings some needed speed to the bottom six. 

Yep! I agree, and size. Also good to have depth who can play multiple positions.

 

On 9/1/2020 at 2:45 PM, Phil_314 said:

I'd dump Jordie to sign Bogosian for $1.5 million, esp. if the team can acquire a pick and gain cap space.  Liked the quick move he made in this playoff against Boston.

Also, if Tanev and or Stecher go, I'd go for Hamonic/ Gudas (if Chris goes) and Kevan Miller at the same $2.5 million (if Stecher goes for $3).  No thanks to any of the wingers in the OP though, we'd filled to the brim with wings.

 

On 9/1/2020 at 3:03 PM, YEGCanuck said:

Of the players first mentioned I would definitely consider a bid for Zach if he was available for the right price.

 

On 9/1/2020 at 3:37 PM, Canuckster86 said:

Bogo has been decent for Tampa in playoffs, unless he signs to stay in TB for less I would assume he could get quite a bit more on the open market

I agree. I think having a right-handed depth defenseman would be great, esp depending on how flexible rosters are next season re: COVID precautions. He's only a few years removed from being coveted as a 6 million dolllar D and I think he's playing well enough in Tampa to show he still has a lot to offer. If Tanev or Myers were injured I think he could step up.

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6 minutes ago, Teemu Selänne said:

I tried to address the tax differences in the post - almost all are being offered significantly more money. None are a given but to play on a winner and get a raise in COVID times might be tempting...esp. given that these FLA times might not have space for all these players next year.

Perhaps, but therein lies the rub.  The viewership here (I hesitate to use the terms "fans" to describe the people who generate the most complaints about player signings, and they definitely are not "knowledgeable fans") seem to have this sliding scale of salaries as measurement for expected scoresheet performance. 

 

If Jim Benning signs these individuals to increased salaries compared to what they used to make, and their scoresheet production is similar to what they delivered previously, there'll be a lot of viewers who will complain that these were the "werst sighnangs evarrrrrr" - just look at those who complain about the free agent signings of Roussel, Myers, and Beagle, and the re-signing of Sutter. 

 

Unfortunately, they don't understand that because of the tax structure, our team is compelled to provide a higher salary (to offset the increased taxes the players would be assessed for playing in BC) in order to lure free agents here from tax-sheltered jurisdictions like Florida; and even the Albertan teams have a leg up on us in that regard - they get more take-home pay from the Albertan teams for the same contractual obligation, they just have to make do with dead cities with low populations, crazy weather, and economic conditions that get worse by the day due to their sole reliance on natural resources.

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1 hour ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

Perhaps, but therein lies the rub.  The viewership here (I hesitate to use the terms "fans" to describe the people who generate the most complaints about player signings, and they definitely are not "knowledgeable fans") seem to have this sliding scale of salaries as measurement for expected scoresheet performance. 

 

If Jim Benning signs these individuals to increased salaries compared to what they used to make, and their scoresheet production is similar to what they delivered previously, there'll be a lot of viewers who will complain that these were the "werst sighnangs evarrrrrr" - just look at those who complain about the free agent signings of Roussel, Myers, and Beagle, and the re-signing of Sutter. 

 

Unfortunately, they don't understand that because of the tax structure, our team is compelled to provide a higher salary (to offset the increased taxes the players would be assessed for playing in BC) in order to lure free agents here from tax-sheltered jurisdictions like Florida; and even the Albertan teams have a leg up on us in that regard - they get more take-home pay from the Albertan teams for the same contractual obligation, they just have to make do with dead cities with low populations, crazy weather, and economic conditions that get worse by the day due to their sole reliance on natural resources.

For sure - I guess I just care a lot less about that segment of the fanbase than winning haha. Anyway, I'd love to see Bogo here as a depth defenseman even if it means giving him Jordie Benn money, especially if it's bubble hockey with expanded rosters. I wonder what the market is looking like for him after a decent T-Bay showing.

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