Jim Benning Proved Me Wrong

[CallAfterLife]

When Benning first came on as GM and started making a series of slight upgrades and lateral moves via trade in Sutter, Gudbranson, Prust etc and signing expensive UFAs like Miller, Schaller, Del Zotto etc I was left unimpressed. I thought Benning's efforts were futile. I actually distinctly remember derisively laughing when I heard him say that he was doing all of this so that the young players on the team could be brought up in a "winning environment." I thought the Sedins, Edler and Tanev would have been enough to mentor the next generation.  

 

But I was wrong. 

 

Benning's willingness to improve the team, despite mixed results, guarded Edler and Tanev from becoming jaded and lazy during the team's roughest years. Unlike the vets on some perennial losing teams that just play to cash a giant paycheque, Edler and Tanev are just as hungry to win now as they were back in 2011. They may not be leading the team in points but their passion to win has really stood out. 

 

Whatever happens against Vegas, I want to salute Jim Benning and the winning environment he's built in Vancouver. The Canucks are once again Canada's best hope of bringing the Stanley Cup home. 

 

Though I will say that the biggest mistake Benning has made so far was not demanding Shea Theodore in return for Ryan Kesler. Theodore has been an absolute terror. Or at least taking on Pavel Datsyuk's contract in order to draft Jakob Chychurn, the Canucks clearly lack a #2 puck mover to back up Hughes. Here's hoping Juolevi, Rathbone or Rafferty can give the Canucks that option.

Edited September 2, 2020 by CallAfterLife

[Duodenum]

Drafting has been good. 

 

Defensive signings and trades have been awful (Gudbranson, Del Zotto as you mentioned). 

 

Bottom six is extremely pricey and, other than Motte, have not provided the depth scoring they should at their price tags. 

 

I'll reserve judgement for after this summer and how he deals with the impending cap crunch created by the bottom six overpayments. 

Edited September 2, 2020 by Duodenum

[timberz21]

18 minutes ago, Duodenum said:

Drafting has been good. 

 

Defensive signings and trades have been awful (Gudbranson, Del Zotto as you mentioned). 

 

Bottom six is extremely pricey and, other than Motte, have not provided the depth scoring they should at their price tags. 

 

I'll reserve judgement for after this summer and how he deals with the impending cap crunch created by the bottom six overpayments. 

So I see you take the easy road, wait after everything is said and done before making your mind lol.  The guy has been our GMs for 6 years and you'll be judging him based on this summer's decisions?

 

Btw our cap crunch was created by the signings of Eriksson, Baerstchi and Luongo's cap penalty...so not at all created by the bottom six.  Even though the bottom might be a little overpaid, proportionally this is always manageable.  The complaints about the bottom six signings has always been term rather AAV.

[Duodenum]

1 hour ago, timberz21 said:

So I see you take the easy road, wait after everything is said and done before making your mind lol.  The guy has been our GMs for 6 years and you'll be judging him based on this summer's decisions?

 

Btw our cap crunch was created by the signings of Eriksson, Baerstchi and Luongo's cap penalty...so not at all created by the bottom six.  Even though the bottom might be a little overpaid, proportionally this is always manageable.  The complaints about the bottom six signings has always been term rather AAV.

I was against some of the trades and signings from day 1 lol (especially trading for Gudbranson and signing Beagle at $3 mill per). If you want me to take a side now, it would basically be Miller trade and drafting good, everything else meh to bad. 

 

Nothin wrong with reserving judgement at this point for next season. This offseason has some big decisions to make. 

 

Term is a big problem as a lot of contracts aren't expiring until the year after our star player ELC contracts are up. 

 

Edited September 2, 2020 by Duodenum

[Darius]

Benning is not perfect, but hes far from the incompetent guy some try to portray him as (see HF Boards Canucks for thousands of posts regarding this matter)

 

The arguments can go back and forth all day.  At the end of the day I think that for the first time in 50 years this org has excellent young players in all of the critical positions 1c, 1d, goal and 2c.   This is mostly due to how this org has drafted in the last 6-7 years. Its like having the rubic's cube all lined up in the critical positions and now all you need is a few complimentary moves to finish the puzzle.  In my mind there are 2-3 holes left to fill and this team will be a force for years to come.

 

 

 

 

[brownky]

I was a huge fan of the Beagle signing, but I'm also a Washington fan so I knew what he brought to the table. He's exactly as advertised.

 

I'm still a fan of the signing. The guy has rings. He was a *key* piece of the Washington win. He's a fitness and work ethic machine and nothing but a good influence on the younger players for that aspect.

 

Benning's early signings were mostly duds. Swing.... and a miss. But he seems to have learned. I like the Myers signing, they needed size on the back end... so Benning goes out and gets the "biggest" giraffe available.

 

Eriksson (and indeed every signing from that FA pool for every team) was a major miss, but it is what it is. Luongo screwed us, and it's unfortunate that Baertshi couldn't quite keep it there, at "what he was" he would have made a dandy 2nd line winger on this team. But alas, no dice.

 

I like what he's done, and I like the trend the team is going. Win or lose, they're doing well.

[CaptKirk888]

Good post OP. Obviously Miller was not a UFA signing but came in a trade that many on CDC criticized. JB doing his stuff and proving the arm chair managers wrong again.

Edited September 2, 2020 by CaptKirk888

[Rick Blight]

3 minutes ago, CaptKirk888 said:

Good post OP. Obviously Miller was not a UFA signing but came in a trade that many on CDC criticized. JB doing his stuff and proving the arm chair managers wrong again.

I think he meant Ryan Miller.

[Ballisticsports.]

3 hours ago, CallAfterLife said:

When Benning first came on as GM and started making a series of slight upgrades and lateral moves via trade in Sutter, Gudbranson, Prust etc and signing expensive UFAs like Miller, Schaller, Del Zotto etc I was left unimpressed. I thought Benning's efforts were futile. I actually distinctly remember derisively laughing when I heard him say that he was doing all of this so that the young players on the team could be brought up in a "winning environment." I thought the Sedins, Edler and Tanev would have been enough to mentor the next generation.  

 

But I was wrong. 

 

Benning's willingness to improve the team, despite mixed results, guarded Edler and Tanev from becoming jaded and lazy during the team's roughest years. Unlike the vets on some perennial losing teams that just play to cash a giant paycheque, Edler and Tanev are just as hungry to win now as they were back in 2011. They may not be leading the team in points but their passion to win has really stood out. 

 

Whatever happens against Vegas, I want to salute Jim Benning and the winning environment he's built in Vancouver. The Canucks are once again Canada's best hope of bringing the Stanley Cup home. 

 

Though I will say that the biggest mistake Benning has made so far was not demanding Shea Theodore in return for Ryan Kesler. Theodore has been an absolute terror. Or at least taking on Pavel Datsyuk's contract in order to draft Jakob Chychurn, the Canucks clearly lack a #2 puck mover to back up Hughes. Here's hoping Juolevi, Rathbone or Rafferty can give the Canucks that option.

Winning?

Oddly, I remember us being at the bottom of the standings hoping for 1st overall picks?

[CaptKirk888]

9 minutes ago, Rick Blight said:

I think he meant Ryan Miller.

Ah, sadly I totally forgot about him.  Thanks for the correction.

[Hogs & Podz]

This playoff run is giving Benning even more critical information it help to successfully navigate the next step in this teams development.  The timing of this playoff run couldn't be better.  With the flat cap every move this off-season needs to be right.  This run has increased Bennings chances on doing so.

[CallAfterLife]

On 9/2/2020 at 9:29 AM, Duodenum said:

Drafting has been good. 

 

Defensive signings and trades have been awful (Gudbranson, Del Zotto as you mentioned). 

 

Bottom six is extremely pricey and, other than Motte, have not provided the depth scoring they should at their price tags. 

 

I'll reserve judgement for after this summer and how he deals with the impending cap crunch created by the bottom six overpayments. 

Remember when Jayson Megna and Michael Chaput practically played a full season in the NHL? Remember Jack Skille and Adam Cracknell? Would cap friendly players like that have helped this team against Minnesota and St. Louis? Or even have the mental fortitude to not feel intimidated or defeated while down 3-1 games against Vegas? 

 

Could the Canucks face a setback next year or even the year after in the time that it takes to clear out a few bad contracts? Maybe. A lot of teams emerging from a rebuild do. Colorado certainly did after they drafted Landeskog and MacKinnon. But that's alright. Would it be so terrible to draft in the top 10 or 15 again next year? Arguably not since this team will need another young top 6 winger and top 4 defenceman. 

 

The youngest players on this team, many of them likely core pieces in the years to come, Pettersson, Hughes, Demko, Horvat, Boeser, Virtanen, Stetcher and Gaudette, now have the experience of making the playoffs and defeating the former Cup champions in the first round and are now in the process of learning what it takes to to defeat a deep team in Vegas that many consider to be a Cup favourite. This type of experience will only help the team when players like Podkolzin and Juolevi step in. 

 

McDavid, Draisaitl, Larkin, Eichel, Matthews and Marner don't have this experience. Unlike with Eichel, Pettersson and Hughes now know that Benning is capable of assembling a winning team. 

 

If prospects like Rathbone and Lind etc can make a solid impact, Benning will be able to manage the cap internally through the draft. This team's future will be decided by the drafts to come. The type of players Benning drafts in the bottom half of the first round will determine the future success of this team. We should be confident since Benning picked Boeser out at #23. Benning needs to prove that he can pick out a Thomas Chabot or a Travis Sanheim since his record with defencemen has been lacking. And if Benning can pull more Madden's to use as the centrepieces for trades, he can start asking teams to retain salary on key players at the trade deadline. 

 

On 9/2/2020 at 12:21 PM, ba;;isticsports said:

Winning?

Oddly, I remember us being at the bottom of the standings hoping for 1st overall picks?

The overall point was the Canucks didn't turn into Toronto, Edmonton, and Buffalo. Perennial losers that have some of the best young talent in the NHL but can't even make it into the playoffs, let alone find the determination to win in them. 

 

The Canucks have played with a lot pride and confidence despite being considered the underdog in these playoffs. Can't help but think that Sutter's 3 seasons of competing for the Cup with Crosby and Beagle actually winning the Cup with Ovechkin played a factor in keeping moral up in those years. 

Edited September 7, 2020 by CallAfterLife

[peaches5]

What he does now going forward will tell if he should be GM or not in the future. The team definitely has glaring holes but that is to be expected now he has to fill those holes and make The Canucks a legit contender - which some GM's struggle with. Personally, with the expansion draft coming up and with how Demko held it together in a big elimination game he has to let Markstrom walk. This team is better with adding another dman or forwards than keeping Markstrom at 6m+. You can sign a veteran for cheap like Holtby to back him up. I don't see Holtby getting paid much. This team really needs better puck movers on the back end... Most of these guys are just flipping the puck out cause they can't make that tape to tape breakout pass. Letting Markstrom walk also allows you to not be forced to trade a guy like Eriksson and give up quality picks or prospects inreturn. 

 

He can still trade Demko and get quality picks back.. but Demko just looked so calm and composed I wouldn't want to let him go and the fact he is only 24.. I think it is worth the risk to give him the reins next year.

[Fanuck]

11 minutes ago, Hogs & Podz said:

This playoff run is giving Benning even more critical information it help to successfully navigate the next step in this teams development.  The timing of this playoff run couldn't be better.  With the flat cap every move this off-season needs to be right.  This run has increased Bennings chances on doing so.

Agreed H&P.

Coaches and player's have said since the beginning they're not just in it for the 'experience' and that's EXACTLY what they should be saying and believing. 

 

But you have to believe that management is loving this situation - underdog group over performing  (to some) with the best to come in the future when the core is truly battle tested and reinforced with some tweaks to the supporting cast.  Imo it's a win/win situation right now for management/ownership. 

 

[oldnews]

4 hours ago, Duodenum said:

Drafting has been good. 

 

Defensive signings and trades have been awful (Gudbranson, Del Zotto as you mentioned). 

 

Bottom six is extremely pricey and, other than Motte, have not provided the depth scoring they should at their price tags. 

 

I'll reserve judgement for after this summer and how he deals with the impending cap crunch created by the bottom six overpayments. 

Horrible take wadr.

 

That bottom six destroyed St Louis.

Who, btw, have a more pricey bottom six than this team - and won a Stanley Cup with it.

If you think the measure of a bottom six - particularly an absolute stud like Beagle - as merely depth scoring, you have a noob's read.

 

If you're reserving judgement, you haven't been paying attention. 

 

The cap crunch is created by a top 6 signing = LE - a bogus Luongo recrap - and a covid stalled salary cap.   Cool story though.

[iceman64]

1 hour ago, CaptKirk888 said:

Good post OP. Obviously Miller was not a UFA signing but came in a trade that many on CDC criticized. JB doing his stuff and proving the arm chair managers wrong again.

And I loved every minute of it, JT is too much of a high calibre player but I was shocked when the masses criticized the move by listening to the media AGAIN instead of actually using their own brains and actually think it through for themselves and come to a conclusion that JB hit another one over the fence and media, especially in Vancouver are out to lunch to start with but hardly the only ones...

 

[iceman64]

3 minutes ago, oldnews said:

Horrible take wadr.

 

That bottom six destroyed St Louis.

Who, btw, have a more pricey bottom six than this team - and won a Stanley Cup with it.

If you think the measure of a bottom six - particularly an absolute stud like Beagle - as merely depth scoring, you have a noob's read.

 

If you're reserving judgement, you haven't been paying attention. 

 

The cap crunch is created by a top 6 signing = LE - a bogus Luongo recrap - and a covid stalled salary cap.   Cool story though.

Meh.. your forgetting one thing, covid is making the numbers a lot higher in viewing from tv instead of in person so if the NHL does their own homework and negotiates the tv deal properly this year then the cap could potentially take an even bigger hike than it already will have to.. 

[oldnews]

4 hours ago, CallAfterLife said:

When Benning first came on as GM and started making a series of slight upgrades and lateral moves via trade in Sutter, Gudbranson, Prust etc and signing expensive UFAs like Miller, Schaller, Del Zotto etc I was left unimpressed. I thought Benning's efforts were futile. I actually distinctly remember derisively laughing when I heard him say that he was doing all of this so that the young players on the team could be brought up in a "winning environment." I thought the Sedins, Edler and Tanev would have been enough to mentor the next generation.  

 

But I was wrong. 

 

Benning's willingness to improve the team, despite mixed results, guarded Edler and Tanev from becoming jaded and lazy during the team's roughest years. Unlike the vets on some perennial losing teams that just play to cash a giant paycheque, Edler and Tanev are just as hungry to win now as they were back in 2011. They may not be leading the team in points but their passion to win has really stood out. 

 

Whatever happens against Vegas, I want to salute Jim Benning and the winning environment he's built in Vancouver. The Canucks are once again Canada's best hope of bringing the Stanley Cup home. 

 

Though I will say that the biggest mistake Benning has made so far was not demanding Shea Theodore in return for Ryan Kesler. Theodore has been an absolute terror. Or at least taking on Pavel Datsyuk's contract in order to draft Jakob Chychurn, the Canucks clearly lack a #2 puck mover to back up Hughes. Here's hoping Juolevi, Rathbone or Rafferty can give the Canucks that option.

If his biggest mistake is not demanding Theodore....well, we don't know that.

He had very little leverage in that deal with Anaheim - a public list of two teams on Kesler's wave of his clause.

Bonino - alone - has been better than Kesler at all points since that deal - and returned Sutter.  McCann has become Gud and now Pearson.  Sbisa buffered the team in the expansion draft (and went on to command a huge role on Vegas' extremely deep blueline before getting injured.

That was a solid take on the Kesler retool imo.   Anaheim...themselves, lacked the foresight to retain Theodore.

 

Arizona didn't simply take on Datsyuk for Chychrun.

Arizona gave up the 20th overall pick - and the 53rd overall pick - to move up 4 spots....and ate Datsyuk in the process.  It was a horrible deal imo - a gross overpayment by Chayka.

[stawns]

8 minutes ago, iceman64 said:

Meh.. your forgetting one thing, covid is making the numbers a lot higher in viewing from tv instead of in person so if the NHL does their own homework and negotiates the tv deal properly this year then the cap could potentially take an even bigger hike than it already will have to.. 

why would TV ratings go up from Covid?  I highly doubt anyone who doesn't watch hockey is suddenly tuning in and I dobt many Americans are watching anything right now

[oldnews]

14 minutes ago, iceman64 said:

Meh.. your forgetting one thing, covid is making the numbers a lot higher in viewing from tv instead of in person so if the NHL does their own homework and negotiates the tv deal properly this year then the cap could potentially take an even bigger hike than it already will have to.. 

Cool story, but...even if you were from the future:

 

The NBC deal expires in 2021/22.

Rogers has a 12 year deal in place.

 

Wake me up when the NBC deal expires - until then, the discussion was about reserving judgement to the cap crunch this summer.

Btw, by the time the NBC deal expires, so does LE's....I'm not sure I take your point.

 

The cap has stalled.  Your faith in tv revenue might be something down the road (or not) , but irrelevent to the discussion here.

 

Edited September 2, 2020 by oldnews