Should the Canucks walk away from Toffoli and Markstrom at the end of this season?

[Patel Bure]

Should the Canucks walk away from Toffoli and Markstrom at the end of this season?
 

In light of Demko’s recent two game performance, this might be one of the most reactionary posts that you’ll ever see, but I’m going to go ahead and say it anyways:

 

What we’re seeing from Demko right now is Kirk Mclean 1994 level $&!#.   What we’re seeing from Demko right now is 2007 Roberto Luongo level $&!#.   As early as a week ago, I was in the camp of proceeding forward with Markstrom while using Demko as a sweetener to move a bad contract (and to avoid losing Demko in the expansion draft), but these last two games have really solidified to me that Demko will be a true number one goalie in this league for many years to come (regardless of what transpires later on tonight).
 

Some might point out that Jordan Binnington and Matt Murray also had very impressive playoff runs before crashing back down to earth, and these people may have a point, but just the poise and technique that Demko is showing in net right now makes me believe otherwise.     
 

Given the Canucks’ long term cap situation, it might be in the best interests for the Canucks to walk away from Markstrom and sign a “1B” goalie in the off-season for around 3 million for a few years so the Canucks can ease Demko into the number one role.  Make no mistake about it - If the Canucks were to proceed with Demko as the number one, he would still need to be eased into it.   Hence, the need for a 1B goalie.    An ideal scenario would have obviously involved the Canucks proceeding forward with both Demko and Markstrom, but Markstrom won’t come cheap (6 million at minimum).  On top of that, we need to consider Markstrom’s age (30) and how many good years he’ll realistically have left.   For these reasons, I do think the Canucks need to take a calculated risk here and proceed forward with Demko as their number one.    
 

Cap reasons and age is also a reason why I now believe that the Canucks should move on from Toffoli as well.   Clear up cap space, extend the cost controlled RFA Virtanen, and give him an opportunity to excel in that 2nd line RW spot next season.  Give both the Canucks and Virtanen a major look to see what he’s really made of and if he’s truly ready to seize the opportunity.   If Virtanen falters for whatever reason, you can put Eriksson there again with Horvat and Pearson as a temporary stop gap.   Why do I say temporary stop gap?   Because - Podkolzin will likely be ready to join the team next season as early as April and will very likely be able to step into a top 6 role anyways.  .   
 

Start of next season:

 

xxxxx-Boeser

xxxxx-Virtanen (or Eriksson)

xxxxx-Virtanen (or Eriksson)

xxxxx-MacEwen

 

In April

 

xxxxx-Boeser

xxxxx-Virtanen (or Podkolzin)

xxxxx-Virtanen (or Podkolzin)

xxxxx-MacEwen

 

That leaves Chris Tanev.   Although Stecher has made a believer out of me in these playoffs, I don’t think the Canucks can afford to let Tanev walk right now for the following reasons:

 

1) Neither Benn nor Stecher are capable of being top 4 guys for too long a period of time.

 

2). Too much pressure would be put on Myers on that right side if you were to let Tanev walk.

 

Hence, I think we will still need Tanev even if he ends up being a declining asset.  
 

As much as Stecher has made me a believer in these playoffs, I still see him being a 3rd pairing guy that should only be used as 2nd pairing guy in case of emergency.  To requalify Stecher however will cost around 3+ million and for this reason, I’m wondering if it would be better for the Canucks to proceed forward with the cost-controlled Rafferty here.  

 

 

 

xxxx-Myers (Tanev)

xxxx-Myers (Tanev)

xxxx-Benn

 

Rafferty (7th dman). 
 

Unqualify Stecher and break in Rafferty to the NHL as your 7th dman.    
 

I guess my ultimate question to you, the reader, is as follows:  Does the line-up below get you back into the playoffs next season?

 

Miller-Pettersson-Boeser

Pearson-Horvat-[Virtanen/Eriksson/Podkolzin]
Roussel-Gaudette-[Virtanen/Podkolzin in April]

Motte-Beagle-MacEwen

 

Sutter

 

Hughes-Tanev

Edler-Myers

Juolevi-Benn

 

Rafferty

 

Demko

 VetBackUp (Talbot?)

 

ps - As far as Stecher goes, the only other option I see is if the Canucks commit to Stecher but then trade Benn and ultimately Rafferty at some point to give Stecher that 3rd pairing spot (although you’d now be financially committed to Stecher for the long term which might be a factor in terms of our long term cap planning).

 

 

Edited September 4, 2020 by DarkIndianRises

[73 Percent]

Yeah I was thinking talbot or greiss myself.

[Drakrami]

2 great games from a goalie means nothing in the NHL. Case in point Avs just won 4-1 with Hutchison in net. Demko has only played 40 NHL games, he has not proven to be a number 1 who we can take to the cup yet. If we let Markstrom go and Demko busts hard, then what are we left with? 

 

Personally I dont want to mortgage our future to keep Toffoli. We are going to have to lose some picks or prospects to sign him under the cap. Like trading Eriksson away for a 1st; or trading Boeser, something like that. I'd just take the hit and let Toffoli go. Any of this won't matter though if we win the cup this year. So let's go Canucks! 

[BoKnows]

Why's everyone ready to give up on Marky after 2 solid games from our backup.  

 

Sign Markstrom and trade the worse of the two goalies before the expansion draft  

[babych]

In a perfect world we could keep both goalies and AND Toffoli. Unfortunately there are too many bad contracts on this team to do that (we all know this).

 

Even before the playoffs I was in support of letting Markstrom walk.. not that I think Demko is the better goalie right now, but his age fits the demographics of this team a lot better, as does his contract.

 

This is a sport, but it's also a business. I think the hard decision would be to let Markstrom walk and move forward with the younger, cheaper guy and hope he develops in the way we need.

[RetroCanuck]

Walk away from Toffoli or trade Boeser, no room for both in my opinion. Resign Markstrom, but protect Demko at the expansion draft. 

 

Demko is the future but having Markstrom for another year is ideal. If Markstrom isn't selected by Seattle then you have a solid trade piece

[AriGold2.0]

1 hour ago, BoKnows said:

Why's everyone ready to give up on Marky after 2 solid games from our backup.  

 

Sign Markstrom and trade the worse of the two goalies before the expansion draft  

It's a big big big decision forsure. We have all known Demko is basically ready prior to these last 2 games. If we can make this Goalie decision this offseason it can help us sign Toffoli and Tanev.

 

Sutter will come off the books when Demko needs a new contract and that makes room for his next one which will likely be something around 3 x 3-4M

 

Hopefully we can move Jake and package Sven with him for a mid-late draft pick and that saves 4M as well.

[Pickly]

18 minutes ago, RetroCanuck said:

Walk away from Toffoli or trade Boeser, no room for both in my opinion. Resign Markstrom, but protect Demko at the expansion draft. 

 

Demko is the future but having Markstrom for another year is ideal. If Markstrom isn't selected by Seattle then you have a solid trade piece

Markstrom is looking for his first real contract and is in line to make some pretty good bank. I don’t think he’s into signing some sort of contract that will be more beneficial to the Canucks, ala one that exposes him to the expansion draft. Guys totally played himself into a 5-6 million dollar multi year deal. He deserves it wether the Canucks are the ones to

give him it or not. 

[BoKnows]

5 minutes ago, AriGold2.0 said:

It's a big big big decision forsure. We have all known Demko is basically ready prior to these last 2 games. If we can make this Goalie decision this offseason it can help us sign Toffoli and Tanev.

 

Sutter will come off the books when Demko needs a new contract and that makes room for his next one which will likely be something around 3 x 3-4M

 

Hopefully we can move Jake and package Sven with him for a mid-late draft pick and that saves 4M as well.

The second Markstrom's price tag goes above that $6 million mark we should walk away.  Not signing Markstrom for $6 or less would just be silly.

 

I'd be game for moving Jake and Sven but Sven is going to be a hard sell if you ask me.  Jake isn't a great sweetener if you're just off loading Sven's contract.

Edited September 4, 2020 by BoKnows

[DrJockitch]

Dark we expect you to be reactionary at this point but you aren't the crazy, manic reactionary we see on this board so I am good.

Tough thing to move contracts especially since the teams out of the playoffs are getting a jump at this now while we can't.  There are only a couple teams that can really take on a bad contract or two at this point. 

Certainly getting LE, Sutter or Baer out would make a huge difference.  Realistically though I just don't see a scenario where LE gets moved, Baer certainly didn't help his case by not reporting maybe they will work out a mutual release so he can sign in Europe but I doubt it.  Sutter may be move able, he still has a recognizable name and  has actually stayed healthy throughout the bubble, extended playoff runs often create unwarranted value for players.  Another option may be to trade Roussel or Pearson as Motte has really grown and Pearson doesn't bring what Toffoli does, this is a less palatable option though.

I would tend to favour signing Markstrom and if Demko looks ready to start after next season, trading him.

Would love to see Toffoli come back but seems a little lower priority.

After watching 6 games against Vegas I would target needs as some real puck hound wingers and better puck moving D.  Next in line is Podz, Lind, OJ and Rathbone who all fit these descriptions.  These guys all have decent size as well.

Edited September 4, 2020 by DrJockitch

[AriGold2.0]

1 minute ago, BoKnows said:

The second Markstrom's price tag goes above that $6 million mark we should walk away.  Not signing Markstrom for $6 or less would just be silly.

 

I'd be game for moving Jake and Sven but Sven is going to be a hard sell if you ask me.  Jake isn't a great sweetener if you're just off loading Sven's contract.

I love Jake but I know his "Friends" well but he needs to get away from them and out of this city.

 

I could see Jake going to PITT, he would excel when put into the right situation. Pitt likes players with the tools but just need help to refine them.

[IBatch]

It’s a tough decision both have merits.   Hopefully Demko wins tonight and keeps winning after that so the sample size keeps getting bigger.  At least now the leagues taking notice and trading Demko should be a lot easier and his return much better.   It’s only two games.   That said I’m impressed.   So many stories over the years about goalies coming in hot and then fading into oblivion.  Markstrom is still the safer play.   I’d let TT go in and instant though haven’t changed my stance on that area.   We need the cap space for next year and really think take away king Motte is up to the task for a long look in the top six.  Guess that would be Pearson’s spot but still this guys got jam and great offensive instincts - hand to eye - bet he’d tip a lot of pucks...

 

Edit:  and yes I’d be fine with keeping Demko too.  Would free up maybe 2-3 million in cap space by the time a vet 1b is signed. 

Edited September 4, 2020 by IBatch

[BoKnows]

Just now, AriGold2.0 said:

I love Jake but I know his "Friends" well but he needs to get away from them and out of this city.

 

I could see Jake going to PITT, he would excel when put into the right situation. Pitt likes players with the tools but just need help to refine them.

I'm guessing Jake runs with the party boys.  Which is fine and all unless it's affecting your job lol.

[BoKnows]

Just now, IBatch said:

It’s a tough decision both have merits.   Hopefully Demko wins tonight and keeps winning after that so the sample size keeps getting bigger.  At least now the leagues taking notice and trading Demko should be a lot easier and his return much better.   It’s only two games.   That said I’m impressed.   So many stories over the years about goalies coming in hot and then fading into oblivion.  Markstrom is still the safer play.   I’d let TT go in and instant though haven’t changed my stance on that area.   We need the cap space for next year and really think take away king Motte is up to the task for a long look in the top six.  Guess that would be Pearson’s spot but still this guys got jam and great offensive instincts - hand to eye - bet he’d tip a lot of pucks... 

I can see Motte being very successful playing with more skilled players.

[Timråfan]

I want both goalies because I want to win. Toffoli isn't worth even a third of Marky. So Marky is much more important for the team. 

If the goalie is good anyone out there can score a gwg. Wich this team has showed. 

Edited September 4, 2020 by Timråfan

[IBatch]

2 minutes ago, BoKnows said:

I can see Motte being very successful playing with more skilled players.

He could be our Hansen 2.0.    Motte the “Motor” could be even better IMO.   And people were crazy upset we couldn’t even get a 4th for Vanek ... JB did great. 

[BoKnows]

Just now, IBatch said:

He could be our Hansen 2.0.    Motte the “Motor” could be even better IMO.   And people were crazy upset we couldn’t even get a 4th for Vanek ... JB did great. 

I agree 100% he's shown a good amount of offensive flashes.  Imagine him playing with Boes and Bo instead of stone hands Beagle.

[IBatch]

46 minutes ago, RetroCanuck said:

Walk away from Toffoli or trade Boeser, no room for both in my opinion. Resign Markstrom, but protect Demko at the expansion draft. 

 

Demko is the future but having Markstrom for another year is ideal. If Markstrom isn't selected by Seattle then you have a solid trade piece

Re-signing Markstrom means we lose all the leverage with trading Demko, we won’t have as an easy go of it waiting until after next playoffs are done .   The best time to do this is now if we are going to do it (trade Demko).   Markstrom plus a cheap unknown is the likely set up as we won’t have the dough for a real name.   Fair chance it makes the team worse.  Signing TT and trading BB is complete idiocy.  Aside from a couple goals which is great BB has outplayed TT the entire playoffs.   He’s playing a more complete game and has already managed more then TT has his entire career taking his best three season into account IMO.  Hard hard pass on that idea.

 

These playoffs have made JB job much easier.  Depth keeps you in it and both Beagle and Sutter are likely no longer cap dumps - well Sutter maybe a little but the cost won’t be much at all.  Strength down the middle is a key strength for us so would keep them both for next year... Roussel is the odd man out IMO, and Pearson, both loveable contracts if we need more space and want to sign TT, just hope we don’t.   Motte has been better... give him a chance and promote someone to play on the fourth line (McEwen).  Easy peasy.    I’m leaning towards the Demko side of things, we could afford a Griess or Talbot as others have mentioned, both decent 1bs.    Hate to see Markstrom go.   Tonight’s game might hinge on that decision.   

Edited September 4, 2020 by IBatch

[Crabcakes]

Demko may be better than we thought.  But look, any player can elevate their game for 2 or 3 games but sooner or later their play will return to it's normal level.  We've seen this with Archibald, MacEwen and others

 

I've said before that I think that the real decision time for goal is going to be the Seattle expansion draft.  Or before then if there's going to be a trade.  Keep in mind that St Loiuis just moved Jake Allen for effectively only a 3rd round pick.  Allen is 30 and performs well if he's playing (I'm going to say) between 30 and 40 games.

 

The easiest thing would be to let Marky walk but he is a proven performer over a large sample size.  He performs better if he doesn't play too much and has enough practice.

 

Benning is going to have to chose 2 of 3 of Markstrom, Tanev and Toffoli.  He may be able to keep all 3 but an issue the Canucks are having this playoffs is depth.  I'm expecting the movement of one of the above.  Moving 2 of the above is just overkill imo.  We may see another player moved who we may not expect like Roussel or Benn. 

 

As Benning says, good problems.

[drofssalg]

Demko is progressing well. He had some great games and some stinkers this season. I think he has a bright future and will have a very good career. Playoff Demko is awesome but I don't base anything I say on those 2 games.

 

The challenge for the Canucks is the expansion draft combined with Markstrom wanting his (likely) final contract to be in his favour. I doubt Markstrom takes less than 5 years and I doubt he takes less than 5 million. And to get him to 5 million range he will want a full NMC. I honestly think he is going to be asking for 6 million for 5 years with trade protection. He turns 31 in January. When does he start to decline? 2 seasons are probably safe but seasons 3 to 5 could be questionable. So signing Markstrom means either trading Demko or losing Demko to Seattle. Goalie trade value is going to be interesting as every team will be aware of the expansion draft and who they can protect. I think that hurts the trade value for Demko. 

 

My preference would be to keep Demko and let Markstrom go to gain the 6 years age difference. But I say that knowing full well there is likely 1 to 2 seasons more of rocky games from Demko. If you can let Markstrom go and get a good vet goalie to come in for 2 years (at sub 5 million) while finishing off Demko's development that to me is a win.

 

But of course the other part to this is, what do the Canucks think of DiPietro? He is 4 years younger than Demko, so his development trajectory could fit very well with Markstroms tailing off with age.

 

Personally I see Markstrom signed, Demko traded, another goalie signed for a year or 2 and DiPietro in the AHL (following the same path as Demko).