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DarkIndianRises

Should the Canucks walk away from Toffoli and Markstrom at the end of this season?

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On 9/7/2020 at 8:13 AM, gurn said:

Letting someone walk away, leaving $3,666,667 in cap space can be an asset.

Sure I see what your saying, but IF everyone agrees Marky is a player then signing him to a 5-6mill contract and then trading him for picks/prospect or a positional need while still freeing the cap space. That's what you call asset management.

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On 9/7/2020 at 8:17 AM, mll said:

There has never been a sign and trade in the cap era per LeBrun.  Can't see any team looking to offer Markstrom 8 years which is really the only reason for a sign and trade.  Don't see the Canucks tricking Markstrom into a contract to then trade him.  

Didn't say anything about a sign and trade, or tricking Markstrom, if they feel he has value and can play you sign him. If someone offers you a good return there is no shame or ill will in doing what is best for the organization.

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On 9/8/2020 at 4:03 AM, IBatch said:

Why not keep JV and his 1 million raise and play him instead?  In the bottom six he’s reasonably priced for 20/20 ... actually a good deal. 

...because we need to shed cap and/or recover picks. On another team not so cap strapped, who knows. But that 3.5 or whatever it will be (worse if he chooses arbritration?) is too much for us to pay a guy who just isn't maturing much and appears somewhat invisible in the playoffs. 

 

To be fair, I wouldn't mind JB reassessing a couple other contracts in our rather expensive bottom 6.

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5 hours ago, Canucklehead73 said:

Didn't say anything about a sign and trade, or tricking Markstrom, if they feel he has value and can play you sign him. If someone offers you a good return there is no shame or ill will in doing what is best for the organization.

lol good luck asking any free agent in the future to sign with the canucks without a NTC NMC.. hey we'll sign you to a 5-6 years contract.. next day oh we are trading you to the Sens coz it's best for our organization. sucks to be you but it's just business.

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Let Markstrom and Toffoli both walk but are not a good age to sign for long term 4- 6 year deals which is what they will be likely looking for. 

Sign Tanev only on a 2 year deal.  

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9 hours ago, Lancaster said:

This is working under the scenario that Markstrom doesn't return and I doubt Pietrangelo will be getting $10-12 million dollar contract.  I don't think any NHL team can fit a $10+ million contract currently.... save for maybe NJD and Ottawa.  Have a more front loaded contract on a lower AAV may be a better sell, preferable somewhere the along the lines of $7.5 million for 6 years.... with $30 million paid out within the first 3 seasons.  

Lots of money will be tied up to star players... as like every other team, but it's important where the money can be allocated.  The Canucks will have good distribution between forwards and defense.  

 

Demko will need a new contract, but $4 million will be a fair price.  

Pettersson and Hughes should hopefully sign for $7 million.  Nathan McKinnon and Boeser should be a decent comparable.  Nathan got $6.3 million for 7 years and Boeser with $5.875.  Pettersson is a bit more accomplished, but $7 seems like a fair amount.  If either $#40 or #43 are asking for the max... the Canucks will be screwed regardless.  

 

There will be lots moving pieces required, but if the Canucks can make it past 21-22 with a good team, more flexibility will made available as the contracts of LE, Beagle, Roussel, Luongo will be gone.... about $15 million (but BB will need to be re-upped).  This will mean players like Hoglander, OJ, Podkolzin, etc will need to be fast-tracked into the NHL (or used as assets).  

 

 

Pietrangelo is a top 5 defenseman in the NHL, so he's going to be paid like one =  so I can't see him signing for less than 10 million a year minimum over at least 6 years. The fact that he's a UFA also helps his cause, because several teams will be wanting him and that will only drive up his price. You can try and front load his contract all you want, he's going to get his, and that's going to be 8 figures per year.....and the Canucks DON'T have the cap space for that.

You brought up Edmonton and Toronto as examples of two teams that you want to avoid the Canucks being like, yet at the same time you want to sign Pietrangelo and despite the positions played, that would make them just like those two teams by having a small percentage of players taking up a large amount of the cap? Sorry, I still don't understand your contradiction.

 

You keep saying "if" and "hopefully", but how about being realistic? The Canucks would somehow need to get rid of Sutter, Eriksson and at least one of either Beagle or Roussel to be able to afford Pietrangelo this year. And how many prospects and draft picks would they need to include in trades to get that done? I also don't agree with your comparables. Boeser isn't nearly as good or as important as either Hughes or Pettersson. And Mackinnon was considered an underachiever before he signed his latest contract, and he BLEW up after that. And because of that timing, that was the ONLY reason why McKinnon signed such a cheap contract. Hughes and Pettersson are not considered underachievers and it is obvious how important both are to the team. So because of that, the Canucks will not be getting the same advantage that Colorado had with McKinnon. In my opinion a better comparable, especially for Pettersson would be Rantanen. He's been a stud just like Pettersson has pretty much from the jump. And he's getting paid over 9 million per year, and he doesn't play the premium position that Pettersson plays. So I think around 8 million per is pretty realistic for him. Finding a comparable to Hughes is a little tougher. But the fact that he's better and more important than Boeser, tells me that he'll get paid more than him. The fact that he's twice the player that Myers is, tells me that he's going to and should get paid more than him. So just based on that I'm pretty sure that he's going to get at least 7 million per. 

 

 

 

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12 hours ago, DeNiro said:

Lol. First full season in the NHL and he was tasked to save the season of a team with one of the worst defensive numbers in the league.

 

But yea let’s just project his entire career because of that. If we did that with Marsktrom we would have never called him back up after he was waived early on here.

 

Markstrom is the better goalie, period. 
That’s why Benning is gonna keep him lol how do you think we got all the way to the second round? Answer, markstrom.  He’s a total machine in the net and he is underrated league wide.

 

Edited by MNaslund??
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18 minutes ago, MNaslund?? said:

Markstrom is the better goalie, period. 
That’s why Benning is gonna keep him lol how do you think we got all the way to the second round? Answer, markstrom.  He’s a total machine in the net and he is underrated league wide.

 

Markstrom is the top target on the free agent market per Woodley. 

 

Colorado might have to bring in a better goalie to take the next step.  Carolina know that they won't win a Cup with the goalies they have per LeBrun. 

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9 hours ago, mll said:

Markstrom is the top target on the free agent market per Woodley. 

 

Colorado might have to bring in a better goalie to take the next step.  Carolina know that they won't win a Cup with the goalies they have per LeBrun. 

Calgary is looking for a better starting goalie too.

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Should only resign Him (JM) With no protection from trades expansion ect.(Which I’d doubt he’d sign) 

long term Him leaving might Be best. 
Not resigning JM opens the possibilities for others thou. 

Handcuffed with a few horrible contracts we won’t be able to keep the valuable players due to the Unmovable duds.
 

 

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11 hours ago, mll said:

Markstrom is the top target on the free agent market per Woodley. 

 

Colorado might have to bring in a better goalie to take the next step.  Carolina know that they won't win a Cup with the goalies they have per LeBrun. 

Lehner was ranked higher then Markstrom (one spot) by sportsnet before the playoffs even starters -  with four so’s in seven games I’m sure his stock has risen even higher.   Actually Holtby was also ranked higher.   Why?  It’s a fickle position and you need more then 1.5 years and a dozen playoff games to get a good idea of what your getting overall.   As of right now most would give Lehner the edge.  Holtby is like a slightly more consistent version of MAF with the exception nobody knows what he will be like on a worse team yet.     Been a long time since this many top goalies hit the market at all at once but think Markstrom won’t even make it.    His health is both a concern and a bonus and both are mentioned.  Bonus because he doesn’t have hard miles on him, minus because he’s had knees issues. 

 

Lehner on the other hand is playing his way into a huge raise with term given Vegas would have to trade MAF to make it work - not easy with that cap hit.   
 

 

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I still don't understand how quickly people are wanting to move Markstrom and make Demko starter. I understand it's likely around the contract issue, so to me we see how all the contracts are going to pan out and then decide. IF Demko got injured next year, what would we do?

 

Demko has played a total of 4 playoff games / .986 sv and 37 season games / .906 sv. Markstrom has played 14 playoff games / .916 sv and 272 season games / .911 sv. I think it would be a lot to expect Demko to play 40-60 games per season with the added pressure as the startup goalie. Lots of goalies play well as backups for short periods of time but struggle with the added pressure. 

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Toffoli - I think Benning got what he needed from him which was helping us make the playoffs. Paid a steep price but likely will have to let him walk as i think Boeser offers everything he does and is younger

Tanev - re-sign him but only if the term and $$$ makes sense - long term commitment has risks

Markstrom - this is the tough one as he is our MVP -he's number 1 to sign out of the three in my opinion. 

Virtanen - sign him to a show me what you can do contract maybe? Although I think Vasili Podkolzin might fill any role we hoped Jake could.

 

 

 

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When is the expansion draft? The Canucks can only protect one goalie. My guess is that would be Demko. But I can't see the Canucks losing Markstrom for nothing to SEA. That gives between now and then to move Markstrom. I think they try the playoffs again with both goalies. Maybe Markstrom gets traded at the end of the 2020/21 season.

 

I don't know if Toffoli will be re-signed, unless Benning can shed some salary and Toffoli's contract is reasonable. 

 

In order to move Sutter, Eriksson, Roussel, Beagle, etc., the Canucks would probably have to add a young player or prospect. 

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6 hours ago, AnotherCanucksFan said:

I still don't understand how quickly people are wanting to move Markstrom and make Demko starter. I understand it's likely around the contract issue, so to me we see how all the contracts are going to pan out and then decide. IF Demko got injured next year, what would we do?

 

Demko has played a total of 4 playoff games / .986 sv and 37 season games / .906 sv. Markstrom has played 14 playoff games / .916 sv and 272 season games / .911 sv. I think it would be a lot to expect Demko to play 40-60 games per season with the added pressure as the startup goalie. Lots of goalies play well as backups for short periods of time but struggle with the added pressure. 

Could you imagine we sign Markstrom, then Demko takes over, then Marky declares his contract sucks ;)

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10 hours ago, IBatch said:

Lehner was ranked higher then Markstrom (one spot) by sportsnet before the playoffs even starters -  with four so’s in seven games I’m sure his stock has risen even higher.   Actually Holtby was also ranked higher.   Why?  It’s a fickle position and you need more then 1.5 years and a dozen playoff games to get a good idea of what your getting overall.   As of right now most would give Lehner the edge.  Holtby is like a slightly more consistent version of MAF with the exception nobody knows what he will be like on a worse team yet.     Been a long time since this many top goalies hit the market at all at once but think Markstrom won’t even make it.    His health is both a concern and a bonus and both are mentioned.  Bonus because he doesn’t have hard miles on him, minus because he’s had knees issues. 

 

Lehner on the other hand is playing his way into a huge raise with term given Vegas would have to trade MAF to make it work - not easy with that cap hit.   
 

 

 

More on what makes Markstrom so valuable:

Quote

 

 

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5 hours ago, mll said:

 

More on what makes Markstrom so valuable:

 

Ha ha Sportsnet doesn’t talk to TSN because they hate each other I suppose ...

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I would like to keep Toffoli. He has so much to offer this team in passing, scoring, and positioning. Such an oppurtunist.

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Toffoli looks like he wants to stay and I would love to keep him...

 

https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/2018840

 

Pending unrestricted free-agent forward Tyler Toffoli hopes he can stick with the up-and-coming Vancouver Canucks on a new contract.

"I want to talk to (general manager) Jim (Benning) and see where he's at and where the team's at because that's priority No. 1 right now. ... I want to stay in Vancouver," Toffoli said Friday, according to Sportsnet's Brendan Batchelor.

The Canucks acquired Toffoli from the Los Angeles Kings prior to February's trade deadline. The 28-year-old winger was an immediate fit in Vancouver's top six, notching 10 points in 10 games prior to the pause and adding four points in seven postseason contests.

 
 

Toffoli has carried a $4.6-million cap hit for each of the past three seasons. The Canucks are projected to have about $14.3 million in available money this offseason, according to CapFriendly, but the team has plenty of key free agents in addition to Toffoli; goaltender Jacob Markstrom and defenseman Chris Tanev are both set to become UFAs, and forward Jake Virtanenwill be a restricted free agent.

Vancouver knocked off the Minnesota Wild in the qualifying round of the postseason to make the playoffs for the first time since 2016. The Canucks then ousted the defending champion St. Louis Blues in the Western Conference quarterfinals before falling to the Vegas Golden Knights in seven games in Round 2.

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On 9/9/2020 at 9:22 PM, wai_lai416 said:

lol good luck asking any free agent in the future to sign with the canucks without a NTC NMC.. hey we'll sign you to a 5-6 years contract.. next day oh we are trading you to the Sens coz it's best for our organization. sucks to be you but it's just business.

Whatever... you can spin it to your narrative however you like, I did not say anything about trading him the "next day", my opinion is your protect your assets first is all.

 

Simple business imho, if you have a player who is good and you consider him an asset you sign him... if a team needing a goalie comes along with a good offer, there is no reason not to take it. Every player understands without a NTC or a NMC you are possibly getting shipped out at any time. Letting him walk for nothing is not good business unless you have agreed he is not a good player or an asset.

 

Any of our signed players... Any team can come along with a trade offer, it's not considered disloyal to make the trade, or else there would not be any trades...

 

As for "loyalty"... Ask yourself this, why didn't Markstrom sign this year? Why is he saying he wants to play here... but hasn't signed... it's because he wants to see what the offers are, yes from OTHER teams... Markstom is protecting his assets, his perceived prime playing years and wants to get the most he can, Sucks to be you but it's just business. Smart business.

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