Should the Canucks walk away from Toffoli and Markstrom at the end of this season?

[Canucklehead73]

All depends what some team offers us for Markstrom

[mll]

Just now, Canucklehead73 said:

All depends what some team offers us for Markstrom

He's a UFA.  If he doesn't sign with Vancouver he might as well test free agency with his value being high - his agent will probably get teams to bid against each other.

[Canucklehead73]

Just now, mll said:

He's a UFA.  If he doesn't sign with Vancouver he might as well test free agency with his value being high - his agent will probably get teams to bid against each other.

Always sign your assets.

[Gurn]

7 minutes ago, Canucklehead73 said:

Always sign your assets.

Letting someone walk away, leaving $3,666,667 in cap space can be an asset.

[mll]

7 minutes ago, Canucklehead73 said:

Always sign your assets.

There has never been a sign and trade in the cap era per LeBrun.  Can't see any team looking to offer Markstrom 8 years which is really the only reason for a sign and trade.  Don't see the Canucks tricking Markstrom into a contract to then trade him.  

[EddieVedder]

Fans are convincing themselves of every excuse to not resign Marky.  We dont know what Demko will in 5 years either, be but his stock is sky high right now.  There are much needed pieces on this team that he can help bring in.  

In 5 years, Dipietro will likely be our guy in the pipes anyway.

[khay]

18 minutes ago, Rush17 said:

Virtanen and Stecher both have arb rights and could get up to 3m if it went to arbitration. So lets say they get between 5-6M  combined. Motte you can probably get around 1.5M for sure. Marky's agent wanted 6-6.5M from the sounds of it prior to the playoff run.  He probably gets 6M minimum - he might be able to hold out for 6.5-7M from the right team. Tofolli we might be able to get between 4.5-5.5M - I think he loves it here and would take between 4.5-5M.

 

I didn't even realize Gaudette was up - great eye. I personally feel he would be a great trade chip to dump some salary. That probably wouldn't be a popular take but he has a high perceived value. I think he's going to come back heavier and better so that is a scary player to think of moving. Gaudette has to be worth some money. He also could be offer-sheeted. If a team needs a potential 2nd line C down the road if you overpaid him via an offer sheet we might not be able to match.

 

Lets say his value is 2-2.5M i dont know its actual value. If a team offered 3.5M x 3-4 years. i'm not sure we could match that. We also have to figure how much we want to pay for a 3rd line C.. We will have Petey and Bo making some serious cheddar in a year. I know Bo is on a sweetheart deal but regardless its going to be a lot of salary, it could reach 12-15M easily for the two of them. 

That's a good take on the situation. Maybe I was overly optimistic.

 

We will see how things go. We have a lot of contracts that are up and it will take up all of our cap space + any relief from LTIR just to keep the same guys here minus Tofu and Tony. 

 

I would like to see JB tinker the bottom 6 a bit. Fill it with guys that are younger, stronger, and faster. Gaudette is indeed a trade option but he is exactly what we need moving forward, younger and faster player that will get stronger so I'm hesitant to trade him as a cap dump. If a team is interested in Gaudette at 3-3.5 mil, I'd work out a trade with that team rather before it gets to an offersheet. I highly doubt any team would offer 3-3.5 mil to Gaud though. Under the normal circumstances, maybe. But with cap staying flat for the next few seasons and so much uncertainty, it's very unlikely. 

 

Sutter is still serviceable but he will need to be moved to re-sign all the players if worst case becomes the reality (offer sheet + arbitration). I think he can be moved without including a significant piece.

 

Assuming we can't move Eriksson, Pearson-Bo-Eriksson may be the 2nd line to start the season... Hopefully a prospect like Hoglander, Lind, or Podkolzin changes that at some point during the course of the season.

 

[higgyfan]

The focus should be on unloading contracts; even if it means retaining a portion.   

 

The 6M for Loui has to go.  Most have agreed, that LE at 3M is a decent price. The next 2 yrs Loui gets 4M each, so Canucks retain the 1M + pay the 3M bonus.  Nucks save 5M cap for 2 yrs.

 

Buyout or trade(with retention) Sutter.  Buy out is $2,041,667 + $1,166,667.  Nucks save 2.33M +2.70M for 2 yrs.

 

Ferland on LTIR  3.5M  If his situation looks permanent, the contract can be traded (with a sweetener).  Nucks save 3.5M

 

Total: 10.8M added to the remaining cap space.

 

**If they could find a way to unload  Baer and/or Benn's contracts; all the better!

 

I think they can sign both Marky and Toff.  It is not for certain that Demko is ready to take over the reins as the #1 next season. 

 

Signing Marky gives the team time to assess the goalies for the future.  Protect the one they want to keep at Expansion Draft.

 

Toff is a great addition to the top 6.  Peeps that are disappointed with his performance in the playoffs are overlooking the effects of returning early from a high ankle sprain.  That must have been excruciating at times and would have a huge effect on his game.  Toff is a factor in the team moving forward with a solid top 6.  There will be one more opening when Pearson either leaves or is moved to the 3rd line (which I think would be terrific).

 

Hogs, Podz, Lind, etc should not be considered top 6 at this point.  Most rookies do not jump into the top 6.

 

 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

1 hour ago, mll said:

There has never been a sign and trade in the cap era per LeBrun.  Can't see any team looking to offer Markstrom 8 years which is really the only reason for a sign and trade.  Don't see the Canucks tricking Markstrom into a contract to then trade him.  

No pending UFA will likely ever sign a deal with Benning unless there's a NTC in it if he does a 'sign & trade'.  Reason why GMs are so reluctant to take that option.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

29 minutes ago, higgyfan said:

The 6M for Loui has to go.  Most have agreed, that LE at 3M is a decent price. The next 2 yrs Loui gets 4M each, so Canucks retain the 1M + pay the 3M bonus.  Nucks save 5M cap for 2 yrs.

His defensive game while solid isn't THAT good to be paying a 35+ year old 4th liner even that kind of money.  Especially since his offensive game has completely left him.  It'll take more than salary retention to unload his contract imho.  Now, if he played center, I would feel different.

Edited September 7, 2020 by NewbieCanuckFan

[higgyfan]

7 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

His defensive while solid isn't THAT good to be paying a 35+ year old 4th liner even that kind of money.  Especially since his offensive game has completely left him.  It'll take more than salary retention to unload his contract imho.  Now, if he played center, I would feel different.

Maybe throw  a sweetener.  The team doesn't have much in the way of picks, so it would have to be a roster player or prospect.  I will get clobbered for this, but I would suggest Virtanen straight up; no retention for Loui's contract.  The team really needs to reclaim that 6M right now.

[Ballisticsports.]

18 minutes ago, higgyfan said:

The focus should be on unloading contracts; even if it means retaining a portion.   

 

The 6M for Loui has to go.  Most have agreed, that LE at 3M is a decent price. The next 2 yrs Loui gets 4M each, so Canucks retain the 1M + pay the 3M bonus.  Nucks save 5M cap for 2 yrs.

 

Buyout or trade(with retention) Sutter.  Buy out is $2,041,667 + $1,166,667.  Nucks save 2.33M +2.70M for 2 yrs.

 

Ferland on LTIR  3.5M  If his situation looks permanent, the contract can be traded (with a sweetener).  Nucks save 3.5M

 

Total: 10.8M added to the remaining cap space.

 

**If they could find a way to unload  Baer and/or Benn's contracts; all the better!

 

I think they can sign both Marky and Toff.  It is not for certain that Demko is ready to take over the reins as the #1 next season. 

 

Signing Marky gives the team time to assess the goalies for the future.  Protect the one they want to keep at Expansion Draft.

 

Toff is a great addition to the top 6.  Peeps that are disappointed with his performance in the playoffs are overlooking the effects of returning early from a high ankle sprain.  That must have been excruciating at times and would have a huge effect on his game.  Toff is a factor in the team moving forward with a solid top 6.  There will be one more opening when Pearson either leaves or is moved to the 3rd line (which I think would be terrific).

 

Hogs, Podz, Lind, etc should not be considered top 6 at this point.  Most rookies do not jump into the top 6.

 

 

Not sure what the answer is, Glad it's Gear and Bennings problem that created it to fix it

Even if you made all those, they still need to pay replacements

I have a feeling they keep Sutter for that reason for 1 more yr anyways and he sits games to see how other upcomers perform

I think NewbieCanuckFan was right about if LE was a centre

 

Benning stated he had 7 players to promote (Not sure if he now meant by means of trade)

We can not keep trading picks and prospects to unleash contracts they signed

The playoffs exposed how outplayed we are except in goal and need to improve

We can not afford more UFA and rarely do they pan out like Miller did

[grandmaster]

We are in a flat cap situation and thus players wanting to cash in next couple years have been hit with a reality check. Revenues will be at an all time low and teams bleeding out. Marky and Toffoli know this and will not command anywhere near what they would normally get. I say both will remain and under decent contracts that will fit under our Cap.

[mll]

1 hour ago, higgyfan said:

Maybe throw  a sweetener.  The team doesn't have much in the way of picks, so it would have to be a roster player or prospect.  I will get clobbered for this, but I would suggest Virtanen straight up; no retention for Loui's contract.  The team really needs to reclaim that 6M right now.

There are more efficient ways for teams to spend 8-9M in cap space (Eriksson 6M + 2-3M for Virtanen).  Teams are cap strapped and others are being imposed an internal cap.  There could be some unexpected names available per LeBrun.  Teams are probably more on the lookout for their own JT Miller.  

[higgyfan]

2 minutes ago, mll said:

There are more efficient ways for teams to spend 8-9M in cap space (Eriksson 6M + 2-3M for Virtanen).  Teams are cap strapped and others are being imposed an internal cap.  There could be some unexpected names available per LeBrun.  Teams are probably more on the lookout for their own JT Miller.  

I was only thinking of a cash strapped team for the Eriksson trade.  They want the 6M cap hit with the low 3M salary.

 

Every team wants a JT Miller; especially at his salary.  I doubt there's many like that being dangled!

[Patel Bure]

19 hours ago, IBatch said:

Best quote “You should have cap issues if you have playoff success” paraphrased.   Troy Stetcher the odd man out for JV Motte and Stetcher - and TT is a spare part we don’t need.  Sign Markstrom (brought up a few examples of other guys that did similar things as Demko but were not close to as good as Markstrom).   Not a terrible idea. 

I've changed my mind as far as Toffoli goes:  
 

Although I still want to keep Demko over Markstrom, I’ve changed my mind on Toffoli and here is why:

 

IF the Canucks walk from Toffoli, then they pretty much have to be committed to Boeser and Virtanen on the right side if they want respectable depth on RW.   If the Canucks keep Boeser and Virtanen however, then we won’t have a way of getting into the 2020 1st round draft (unless we use Demko, and we shouldn’t be moving him in my opinion).

 

If the Canucks can’t get into the 2020 1st round, then they wouldn’t be able to use the 2021 1st as a sweetener to move Eriksson because going two straight drafts without a first is bad business.  
 

Again, Demko or Podkolzin could be used as sweeteners to move Eriksson, but doing that would be the height of stupidity in my opinion.  
 

This is honestly what I think Benning will do:

 

1) Try and sign Toffoli.

2) If Benning can sign Toffoli, he will try and see if he can move Virtanen to get in on the 2020 1st round, or will see if he can use Virtanen as a sweetener to move Eriksson.

3) If neither of the above can be achieved, then I am of the opinion that the Canucks should move Boeser for a 2020 1st and a good prospect, although this will also depend on what the Canucks long term plan is (i.e. if they plan to “go for it” next season, then they will obviously want to try and have all of Toffoli, Podkolzin, and Boeser on the right side, or might trade one of Boeser or Toffoli at the deadline for defensive help if and when Podkolzin arrives here and looks legit).  
 

Personally speaking, I’d like to see the following for next season:

2020-2021:

 

Miller-Pettersson-Toffoli

Pearson-Horvat-Virtanen (Podkolzin in April)

Motte-Gaudette-MacEwen (Virtanen)

Roussel-Beagle-Sutter (MacEwen)

 

Lind (Sutter)

 

Edler-Myers
Hughes-Tanev

Juolevi-Benn

 

Rafferty

 

Demko

VetBackUp

 

-walk from Leivo, Stecher (Unqualify),Markstrom, and Fantenberg, 

-trade Baertschi at 50% retention

-Eriksson + 2021 1st + 7th rounder for 6th rounder.  If this isn’t possible with Eriksson, then you might need to use Sutter here unfortunately.

-Boeser for 2020 1st rounder + good prospect

-Sign someone like Cam Talbot or Thomas Greiss to back up Demko

 

2021-2022:

 

Miller-Pettersson-Toffoli

Hoglander-Horvat-Podkolzin

Motte-Gaudette-Virtanen

Roussel-Beagle-MacEwen

 

Lind

 

Hughes-Myers

Juolevi-Tryamkin

Rathbone-Tanev

 

Rafferty

 

Demko

[VetBackUp or Dipietro]

 

The assets from the Brock Boeser deal may also start to play a factor in the above line-up (hopefully, on defense).
 

-Hoglander replaces Pearson

-depending on what we did in the last off season, you either walk away from Sutter, or you move Eriksson to a cap floor team (1 year left + 2,000,000 in real dollars = shouldn’t be too difficult).  Or - you just convince Eriksson to retire at this point and pay him 2 million under the table.

-Tryamkin replaces Edler (if not Tree, then someone else via UFA or internally)

-Benn walks

-Spooner off the books

 

Here is one other thing that I would try here:

 

If someone like Lind or Bailey looks like they can do what Virtanen is doing, then trade Virtanen to get in on the 2021 1st round.   Then, try and use the 2022 1st as a sweetener to trade both Beagle and Roussel (will have one year left on their deals) to clear cap space if necessary.

 

Edited September 7, 2020 by DarkIndianRises

[mll]

54 minutes ago, higgyfan said:

I was only thinking of a cash strapped team for the Eriksson trade.  They want the 6M cap hit with the low 3M salary.

 

Every team wants a JT Miller; especially at his salary.  I doubt there's many like that being dangled!

No team will have trouble reaching the floor.   Even if there were, there are other contracts that are better than Eriksson's - Russell for example is being shopped.  He's a 4M cap hit but only 1.5M in real cash vs 5M for Eriksson.  

 

Several owners are hurting in their other business and could be imposing internal caps. Bad contracts are hard to trade which might force them to move better players to shed the necessary salary.   Friedman also believes that some teams are going to pass on qualifying some of their RFAs as they are worried about arbitration.

 

Edited September 7, 2020 by mll

[aliboy]

2 hours ago, higgyfan said:

The focus should be on unloading contracts; even if it means retaining a portion.   

 

The 6M for Loui has to go.  Most have agreed, that LE at 3M is a decent price. The next 2 yrs Loui gets 4M each, so Canucks retain the 1M + pay the 3M bonus.  Nucks save 5M cap for 2 yrs.

 

Buyout or trade(with retention) Sutter.  Buy out is $2,041,667 + $1,166,667.  Nucks save 2.33M +2.70M for 2 yrs.

 

Ferland on LTIR  3.5M  If his situation looks permanent, the contract can be traded (with a sweetener).  Nucks save 3.5M

 

Total: 10.8M added to the remaining cap space.

 

**If they could find a way to unload  Baer and/or Benn's contracts; all the better!

 

I think they can sign both Marky and Toff.  It is not for certain that Demko is ready to take over the reins as the #1 next season. 

 

Signing Marky gives the team time to assess the goalies for the future.  Protect the one they want to keep at Expansion Draft.

 

Toff is a great addition to the top 6.  Peeps that are disappointed with his performance in the playoffs are overlooking the effects of returning early from a high ankle sprain.  That must have been excruciating at times and would have a huge effect on his game.  Toff is a factor in the team moving forward with a solid top 6.  There will be one more opening when Pearson either leaves or is moved to the 3rd line (which I think would be terrific).

 

Hogs, Podz, Lind, etc should not be considered top 6 at this point.  Most rookies do not jump into the top 6.

 

 

I agree they have to get aggressive at moving bad contracts, if they want to take a step forward.

[DownUndaCanuck]

I think unfortunately Toffoli is not going to fit cap-wise, and JB will do what it takes to sign Marky. The other big question-mark is Tanev, you'd hate to see him leave and hope he takes a bit of a cut to stay in the fold. 5M for Marky, 3.5-4M for Tanev and JB can squeeze some guys in together to try and save Stecher too, otherwise we're going to have to lose one or two guys and have some kids play in the holes in case of injuries.

[Patel Bure]

26 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

I think unfortunately Toffoli is not going to fit cap-wise, and JB will do what it takes to sign Marky. The other big question-mark is Tanev, you'd hate to see him leave and hope he takes a bit of a cut to stay in the fold. 5M for Marky, 3.5-4M for Tanev and JB can squeeze some guys in together to try and save Stecher too, otherwise we're going to have to lose one or two guys and have some kids play in the holes in case of injuries.

I'd be willing to keep Stecher if the Canucks can unload Benn.       

 

However - it would have to work from a cap perspective (i.e. Benn comes off the books after this season and so this will help us save money for Pettersson and Hughes.  Signing Stecher makes sense only if the Canucks have a long term plan in place for being able to re-up Pettersson and Hughes).