Next Season Adjustments

[YEGCanuck]

Competent third and fourth liners with grit and speed who excell at challengeing their opponents is what we need. overall my priorities would be defensemen and centers.

[AV's Coin]

14 minutes ago, Googlie said:

How do we get that Dman, though.  Were not drafting, just exposing.  Would you be willing to give up a Rathbone or Podz to get him, cos that's what another team would ask for (and possibly a draft pick sweetener as well)

 

It wasn't the defense that sunk us - it was the offense. We were shut out 4 times in the 7 games we lost

no it was actually the defence that stunk. If you cant make a play to get out of your own zone your not going to get many offensive chances. Half the time they were even failing to flip it out of the zone which is their strength sad to say. Trying to skate it out they would have to circle back into their own zone and then get caught by the forcheck.

 

Lather, rinse, repeat as Beiksa said.

 

Juolevi replacing Benn will be an upgrade. Stetcher is okay but likely comes down to cost in which case maybe Rafferty, Brisebois or Rathbone (unlikely next year although I have always been high on him) steps in.

[DeNiro]

I think they gotta keep Toffoli.

 

The guy was a clear fit here and likely won’t command a huge amount. If you can get another guy that outperforms his contract like Miller it’s a no brainer.

 

I think he can be a 70+ point player here and only cost around 5.5 mil.

[Outsiders]

If anything this playoffs showed who we can win with and who we can't. 

 

Our bottom six needs to be changed. 

 

This is what our bottom six should look like starting next season. 

 

__________-Gaudette-_____________

Motte-Beagle-MacEwen 

 

 

I wouldn't be upset about trying to get an upgrade to replace Gaudette and get more of a 2way forward. I just didn't see enough from Gaudette in the playoffs. It was his first taste and he got good experience, although being sheltered. I feel management will give him another shot and I am on board with that if they do.

 

Has to go:

 

Roussel - I like his game and pushback but the team doesn't play that kinda game. He always gets reputation calls and it hurts the team. I feel we can find an upgrade cheaper than 3 million that puts up more points and plays better defensively

 

Sutter - Had like 3-4 solid games this playoff run but he faded quickly. He just can't keep that high level of play for more than a couple games before he fades out. He is way to soft to play in the bottom six and Beagle is better on the PK. 4.3 million for soft hockey is just disappointing. Would be huge if we can move him with 1 year left on his deal!

 

Virtanen - Showed flashes but again was a non-factor most nights. Never know what you're going to get from him. He had a couple important goals but just isn't the type of player I think we win with. He had a golden opportunity to play a physical game against Vegas and STL and chose not to. He needs out of Vancouver, as there are to many distractions here in his hometown. Not to mention coming off 18 goal season he has Arb rights so would likely cost us $3million. Pass

 

EDIT - Levio - totally forgot about him. I'd 100% bring him back on a 1 year deal. I really liked his game and he would play really well with Gaudette!!!

 

 

Heres the thing. We got Hoglander, Podkolzin, Lind coming. Hoglander I think can make the team out of camp. Podkolzin can only come like half way through the season. Lind is probably a half or full season away. So worst case if we have to keep Sutter and Roussel for a season to bridge the cap so be it. Although, we could probably trade them close to the deadline and just call up Lind/add Podkolzin b/c his KHL season finished. Just food for thought

 

 

 

 

Our top 6...

 

Miller-Pettersson-Boeser

Pearson-Horvat-Toffoli ( 4 years 5 million )

 

 

A couple changes could be made. 

 

Toffoli - I wouldn't go over 5 million a season. However, I do believe you win with a player like him going forward. I really feel his injury held him back in the playoffs and I see a 25 goal 50PT player. 

 

Pearson - I would keep him here for next season. I really liked his regular season and I felt he played great with Bo. A solid 200 foot player that wins his board battles and can score. The problem with Pearson is he is a UFA after next season and we will most likely will have to let him walk (Especially if we keep Toffoli). He could probably get 4.5 on the open market. Hoglander should be ready to go by then. 

 

Boeser - I'm not ready to give up on Boeser yet. I want to give him another full season to prove himself and see if we can get him back to 20-25+ goals. He will be motivated and want to prove everyone wrong. Half the problem is the misuse him on the PP which is frustrating. He is a shooter, having him stand in front of the net is pointless. We have 2 years before is QO goes to 7.5 million. So plenty of time to see if Boeser is in our long term plans or not. 

 

 

 

Defence

 

Edler-Myers

Hughes-___________

Rathbone/Juolevi-Stecher

 

 

Stecher - after the playoffs he is perfect for our bottom pair. Can play up and down and that is important. If we can work out a deal in the 2.5 million range for 2-3 years that would be great! 

 

Rathbone/Juolevi - One of them is ready to make the jump. Stecher is a perfect partner on the 3rd pair for either of them. 

 

Tanev - Have to let hime walk. His inability to move the puck was prominent this playoffs and you just can't pay him 5 million on a long term deal with his health. 

 

Fantenberg - Resign for 7 D. He played well in playoffs. Liked his physicality and compete. 

 

Benn - Bye

 

 

 

Goaltending 

 

See DeNiro's post above

 

IMO I think you go with the younger goalie that will grow with his core. He just showed his is ready for prime time. Sign a cheap UFA vet to support him. I think it would be foolish to give Markstrom 6 million on a long term deal. Especially with our cap problems. Demko is 24. Marky is 30. With saving all this cap (Tanev and Marky walking) We can focus on upgrading our D to really insulate and support Demko. 

 

 

 

For next season at least:

Miller-Petey-Boeser

Hoglander-Horvat-Toffoli 

Pearson-Gaudette-Levio( perfect for our 3rd line with Gaudette) Pearson drops to 3rd line to help spread offence and help Gaud in D zone

Motte-Beagle-MacEwen 

 

 

 

Edler-Myers

Hughes-___________ (UFA or trade)

Rathbone/Juolevi-Stecher (solid puck moving pairing)

 

 

Demko

UFA goalie (Domingue?)

 

 

Plenty of cap to make upgrades on D and bottom 6. At forward we just have to remember Hoglander,Podkolzin and Lind are coming. Would rather really shake things on on D!

 

 

 

Edited September 5, 2020 by Outsiders

[DeNiro]

@Outsiders

 

Agree with everything you said.

 

These are tough decisions but every team trying to build a contender must make them at some point. At the end of the day the core are the only ones you need to make sure you keep. The rest is managing the cap and trying to find upgrades.

 

Tanev and Marky have been great warriors and leaders for us, but locking players in to big deals when their prime years are fading is not good team building. Especially when you have depth to replace them.

 

Bennings biggest goal this offseason should be to maintain our top 6 (Miller, Pettersson, Toffoli, Pearson, Horvat, Boeser) and upgrade our defense (more puck movement). And anything left over can be used to tweak the bottom 6.

 

To do this we gotta cut salary though. The easiest way to do that without paying other teams or gutting our depth is to let Marky and Tanev go. That’s around 11 million dollars that can be used to retain Toffoli and seriously upgrade the D.

 

I don’t think this team does what it did this season with the same D core. We’re constantly one injury away from collapsing as a team. It’s not sustainable.

 

Likely some tough choices ahead. I hope JB sticks to his guns and has a clear vision.

 

 

Edited September 5, 2020 by DeNiro

[VegasCanuck]

Try and keep Tofolli, Markstrom, Tanev and Fantenberg.

 

Find a way out of Eriksson (difficult)

See if Sutter can be moved

Ferland remains on LTIR for the duration of his contract

Trade or buy out Benn

Trade or buyout Baertschi 

Sign Domingue for 1 year, 950k (reliable but cheap nackup)

Give Virtanen a 1 year 1.5 million, show me contract 

Sign Stecher at 2.75 for 2 years

Motte 2 - 2.25

Gaudette for 1 year, 1.25 million

MacEwan for 925k, one way

Let Leivo walk

[Petey Castiglione]

Some really tough decisions coming up and the best part of a long run is a shorter off season (hopefully)

 

My wish list.

Sutter, Roussel, Benn - Traded

Toffoli re-signed 

Marky re-signed to 1 year deal

Upgrade Defence

 

 

The trades are self explanatory, we need cap space and these players look to be replaceable internally. 

 

Toffoli solidifies the top 6 and should come at an affordable cap hit.

 

Time and time again we've seen the advantage of having 2 capable goalies.  Having the tandem of Marky and Demko would be scary good.   I don't think Marky would sign a 1 year deal but he's a team guy and I have a feeling he's willing to work with the team to stay put.  What that looks like remains to be seen and if we have to let him walk and go with Demko I have no problem with that.

 

Upgrading the D could be solved internally as well and I feel is the most intriguing part of the team for next season.  

 

Juolevi - Finally healthy and could be the biggest addition to the Defence.  Great skating, excellent first pass and known for his cerebral game.  Let's not forget the kid is also a winner.

 

Rathbone - Slick skater, plays a heavy game and has a rocket of a shot.  Could potentially play the right side as a lefty.

 

Rafferty - Utica's top scoring Dman.  Great vision and can put up points but is his defensive game good enough for the show.

 

Tryamkin - The biggest question mark.  Will he come back and where is his game at.  

 

UFA/Trade 

 

Exciting times ahead!

 

 

 

[Nuck1991]

4 hours ago, 24K PureCool said:

Agree that the bottom six needs a make over. The only player in the bottom six that should stay long term is Motte. Time to move on from one of Sutter or Beagle (more preferably Sutter). I wouldn't move Gaudette just yet but it has to be made clear to him that he need to do major work to his game if he wants to be a main stay and driver on the third line. Virt experiment is over. He either should be traded for whatever we can get or be paid like a fourth liner. I will reserve opinion on Mac cause he didn't really play much. Roussell can go to open up space for Lind or Mac.

 

Defense also gonna require a overhaul. Benn shoudl be traded bit with only one more year on his contract, it is not that much of an issue. Fanta should be retained if possible. Stecher, bless his heart, should be let go. He just doesn't have the size for the playoffs and be paid for what he will be asking and we probably need his spot to give to Juolevi or Rathbone. Edler is here to stay until next season and frankly he is still out number 2 D. Now the question here is Tanev. He is great at what he does but at the same time we need more physicality and speed from the top 4. May have to let him go and spend his cap somewhere else. 

 

Top 6 for the most part is not gonna do much movement until Pod or Hog gets in. We probably want an upgrade on Pearson but he is serviceable for now. Tofu should be retained if possible to solidify the top six. Boeser on the other hand should be looked at what we can get for him. If he can bring back a big fast top 4 d, it might not be a bad idea to trade him. He was not the problem but he sure can be the solution in a trade. 

 

Goalies. Try to bring Marky back but the line in the sand is NMC. He he is adamant on a nmc or full ntc, than let him go and sign a goalie like Holtby to share the net with demko next season. 

i love the way u laid it out.

Motte and gaud should  be the only one's staying from bottom six.

seen enough of virtanen, im sure he gone by start of next season

Troy has all the heart , but we need size. We need a mobile defensive dman over him, some like parayko but less expensive.

I would keep tanev thou. Huge hole to fill if he leaves.

I honestly have seen enuf of boeser as well. i dont think he ever gona get more than 30 goals or 60 points in a season. Laine would fit very well on the right side of petey. 

pearson is done. He sucked badly in vegas series.

ferland is done too.

[Screw]

3 hours ago, Googlie said:

How do we get that Dman, though.  Were not drafting, just exposing.  Would you be willing to give up a Rathbone or Podz to get him, cos that's what another team would ask for (and possibly a draft pick sweetener as well)

 

It wasn't the defense that sunk us - it was the offense. We were shut out 4 times in the 7 games we lost

When teams are forced to expose a player and lose him to expansion or recoup value via trade then it alters the market.  You may be right in terms of cost in a regular scenario.  I am specifically looking at the situation created during this comming expansion.

[grandmaster]

From the sounds of it Nils Hoglander could slot into the top 6 next season. Pearson should be traded if that is the case.  Use the money to keep Toffoli. 

Edited September 6, 2020 by grandmaster

[DeNiro]

3 hours ago, Googlie said:

How do we get that Dman, though.  Were not drafting, just exposing.  Would you be willing to give up a Rathbone or Podz to get him, cos that's what another team would ask for (and possibly a draft pick sweetener as well)

 

It wasn't the defense that sunk us - it was the offense. We were shut out 4 times in the 7 games we lost

Hard to score when the D can’t move the pucks up to the forwards efficiently.

 

Pretty hard to generate anything when every pass you get is being chipped to you off the glass or being intercepted before it gets to you.

 

Moving the puck quickly up the ice from our own zone is exactly the reason we lost. The D needs at least two high end puck movers before we can contend.

[Ferlands_Head]

Seeing as how we had no answer for the VGK forecheck. 

 

We badly need some more puck moving defenseman. They double teamed Hughes cause they know he's the only guy who's a legit puck-mover. Our current Defense played admirably but are very lacking in foot speed and it showed. I'd like to see what we have in Juolevi and Rathbone. Juolevi makes a great first pass and Rathbone has speed and can rush the puck. If these guys pan out it would help immensely against a team like VGK. Instead of getting hemmed in by their forecheck we would be countering with an odd man rush the other way cause they're so aggressive. When VGK was beaten in 5 games by Washington they gave up a ton of odd man rushes. 

 

Bottom 6

 

I'm not ready to move on from Virtanen quite yet, his improvement this season is intriguing, although he doesn't play a heavy game like i'd wish he would. 

Motte is a keeper lock him up! 

Podkolzin is going to be a game changer for us, a puck hound with size that will cause chaos around the crease. 

 

Other than that we just need to keep developing our prospects and surround them with quality support players. I firmly believe this will be the core that will win us our first cup. 

 

 

[189lb enforcers?]

44 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Hard to score when the D can’t move the pucks up to the forwards efficiently.

 

Pretty hard to generate anything when every pass you get is being chipped to you off the glass or being intercepted before it gets to you.

 

Moving the puck quickly up the ice from our own zone is exactly the reason we lost. The D needs at least two high end puck movers before we can contend.

Or... or... a defensive strategy to match the players the GM brings in.

 

[DeNiro]

41 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Or... or... a defensive strategy to match the players the GM brings in.

 

The team has to have an identity though. 
 

Having D men who collapse and block shots and can’t move the puck proficiently to the forwards who want to hit the neutral zone with speed doesn’t work.

 

Quinn Hughes is the only player we currently have that can do that consistently. He can’t play 60 minutes a night though.

 

Edited September 6, 2020 by DeNiro

[kenhodgejr]

10 hours ago, Filthy McNasty said:

What a season/play offs it was, one for the books and certainly one to be proud of! 
 

Now we have to time to think about how to take that next step and what we can learn from losing to the knights where goaltending was everything and shots on goal were nothing 

 

I would like to blow up the bottom six, we need secondary scoring to help out, the only ones that should be in the bottom six next season is motte, beagle and macEwen(I thought he should have been in Vegas series). I believe the virtanen experiment is over and guadette is just not what is needed. 
 

We do now have a goalie controversy but I believe we do need to lock marky up and make a decision later on. 
 

finally, we had every chance to win the game with our power play opportunities and came out with barley a shot on goal, it’s time to move on from Newell brown and get some freshness on the pp

 

what would you like to see. 

I agree with everything you said. 

 

For me Motte, and Beagle stay. Sutter Gaudette, Virtanen, Roussel, Ferland, Eriksson and Markstrom can go

 

I would like to target Branden Tanev for third line LW,  Cody Eakin for third line C, and Luke Kunin for second line RW 

 

Im not sure if we have the pieces to make it work or if the logistics make sense but these guy are a big improvement to what we had.

 

All these guys can skate, crash and bang and do well in playoff hockey. 

 

I also think we need to transition prospects into the line up so we have enough money to pay Hughes and Pettersson. Also Motte deserves more money

 

Miller Pettersson Boeser

Pearson Horvat Kunin

Tanev Eakin Toffoli 

Motte Beagle MacEwan 

Hoglander 

 

Hughes Tanev 

Edler Stetcher

Fantenberg Myers

Rafferty 

 

Demko 

Dipietro 

 

Edit - put Myers back in the line up

Edited September 6, 2020 by kenhodgejr

[Jester13]

Trade Sutter, Roussel, Benn, and Beagle. Give Gaudette and Jake more leash with amped up ice time. Keep Demko. Play OJ. 

 

Oh, and trust whatever Benning does. 

[24K PureCool]

1 hour ago, kenhodgejr said:

I agree with everything you said. 

 

For me Motte, and Beagle stay. Sutter Gaudette, Virtanen, Roussel, Ferland, Eriksson and Myers Markstrom can go

 

I would like to target Branden Tanev for third line LW,  Cody Eakin for third line C, and Luke Kunin for second line RW 

 

Im not sure if we have the pieces to make it work or if the logistics make sense but these guy are a big improvement to what we had.

 

All these guys can skate, crash and bang and do well in playoff hockey. 

 

I also think we need to transition prospects into the line up so we have enough money to pay Hughes and Pettersson. Also Motte deserves more money

 

Miller Pettersson Boeser

Pearson Horvat Kunin

Tanev Eakin Toffoli 

Motte Beagle MacEwan 

 

Hughes Tanev 

Edler Stetcher

Fantenberg Rafferty 

Juolevi Rathbone

 

Demko 

Dipietro 

 

What Myers was fine and is the only physical D we have in the backend.

 

Otherwise yeah sounds like a plan.

[189lb enforcers?]

2 hours ago, DeNiro said:

The team has to have an identity though. 
 

Having D men who collapse and block shots and can’t move the puck proficiently to the forwards who want to hit the neutral zone with speed doesn’t work.

 

Quinn Hughes is the only player we currently have that can do that consistently. He can’t play 60 minutes a night though.

 

You can say that, sure, but wadr, that’s a pretty casual take, not to say you’re wrong, but maybe looking too much at one aspect of the big picture. I agree you need skill Dmen to move the puck, but that’s not my point. 
 

Two things can be true at the same time.
 

As in, what you said in your post, and the other bit that you didn’t, which is coaching to what you have to work with. Don’t just pin this on the (quality of) players. 
 

My point was that our coaching of the defensive structure, popularly knows as by Dzone exits and transition, needs to fit the players the GM supplies the roster with. If not, that’s on the GM. 
 

Consider that it’s not just the quality or skill of our Dmen being why the puck seemed to never leave our zone for minutes at a time, but also the coaching philosophy and structure of the Canucks coaching staff.
 

The Canucks set records this year on that front. - Not because Fanta can’t pass the puck tape-to-tape, but because of systems being tactically preyed upon until the peewee style play of flipping the puck out of the Dzone was deemed an appropriate response from the coaching staff. Do you think that was the players’ decision to execute, or the coaches’? 
 

Interestingly, nobody is talking about that liability; for all the praise JB has received for managing this playoff run, I’ve not read much questioning his management of the blue line beyond criticism of a lack of quality puck carriers. JB has to look at what went so poorly that his 5 million dollar Dmen were “flipping” the puck up and into 50/50 plays at center ice. He is responsible for that product, no matter how you slice it. Rather than blame the Dmen for being absolutely dominated in their own end, maybe try looking at the game from another 100 feet up, where you’ll notice the exposed structure and it’s place in the record books. 

 

FWIW, I’d imagine that Vegas would have hunted down, intimidated and destroyed the typical finesse Dman you are requesting, regardless, and Fanta and Benn would have been in as replacement parts anyways. It was that kind of a run for the Dcore. 

Edited September 6, 2020 by 189lb enforcers?

[kenhodgejr]

17 minutes ago, 24K PureCool said:

What Myers was fine and is the only physical D we have in the backend.

 

Otherwise yeah sounds like a plan.

Ya i was on the fence about Myers because of the penalties he took. Also seemed to get caught taking long shifts. However his size adds a much needed element on the back end.  I think Rafferty has a lot to offer and wanted to see him get a chance next season. Also I like Stetcher and Tanev and was hoping they would stay. Maybe Rafferty is the extra defence man 

[YearoftheNuck]

Forwards

 

Toffoli - sign as long as it doesn’t exceed 5.5. I think he’s too good of a fit on Petey’s wing to let him walk. 
 

Leivo - I’m hoping he comes back. A perfect third liner in my mind. I’m sure we can sign him for a very low cap hit as well. 
 

Virtanen - It’s difficult to say what the market value would be for him, but if we could package him and a B prospect for a fast, big #3 defensemen then I’d be all for that. Virt has so many weapons but his low hockey IQ (by NHL standards) and his frustrating beyond belief inconsistency in effort, make me feel that it’s time to move on. I don’t think these playoffs did much to help his value, but hopefully his 18 goal shortened season is still fresh enough in other teams’ minds. 
 

Sutter - man if there can any takers for him out there, then we take it and run. Just too slow, and so often looks completely winded when back checking (head down and gasping all while moving relatively slowly). I commend his effort, but I think Father Time is catching up to him. 
 

 

Defensemen 
 

Tanev - being banged up so often he will undoubtedly want term probably over dollars. If Benning can work some negotiating magic and sign him to a very reasonable contract then I’d love to see him stick around for a couple more seasons. He compliments Hughes so well that I’d hate to see him leave. Also, he’s just such a warrior. 

 

Fantenburg - a solid 7 D option. I’m sure we can resign him to a 1-2 year contract for pretty cheap. 
 

Stetcher - I love this kid’s heart, but if he could be use a piece in a trade to either unload Sutter for a usable piece coming back the other way, or packaged with Virtanen to get a true #3 d man, then I’m all for it. 
 

Juolevi / Rathbone / Rafferty - time to give these guys some lengthy looks. Time for some fresh blood and more speed on our backend. 
 

 

Goalies

 

Demko - our goalie of the future and probably even present

 

Markstrom - Resign him only if a NMC doesn’t apply to the expansion draft. We absolutely cannot lose Demko in that draft. 

 

 

All in all, I feel that we need more speed and tenacity sprinkled throughout our line up. If we could have an entire bottom six with the heart of a lion like Motte then I’d be happy. I love that “high motor” guys is what we targeted in the last few drafts because those types of guys, and a lot of them, are exactly what every team needs to win. Podkolzin, Hoglander, Rathbone and even the forgotten man Woo are exactly those types of players and I’m estatic that they’re all property of the Canucks. With the high end youth we currently have and those prospects coming up, I think we’ll be dangerous for years to come.