I Believe We Would Have Won, If...

[Nuxfanabroad]

30 minutes ago, DarkIndianRises said:

The thing is, no one could have predicted that Demko would have played like that.  Although Demko started to play well in March after a shaky first few games when Markstrom got injured, he was still very much a question mark.  He looked like a guy that would need some more detailed experience, perhaps doing a 50-50 split somewhere else as a 1A goalie.  
 

As far as what if’s go, I don’t think there are any what if’s for this year.   Much like the 2006-2007 Canucks, we simply lost to a better team that is further along the curve than we are.   This was a good overall learning experience for us.

Pls go back to that thread(5 in 7 strategy, etc...). It's Aug 29th(BLM break thing) day before gm 3. I said tell Jacob gm 3 is his; TD gm 4 is his. Five apparently agreed & +'d this suggestion.

 

Furthermore, every other fr*ckin' coach in the same situation used their other 'tender. It wasn't an earth-shattering notion.

 

Sorry. No revisionist-history here at all. Go read it. They dropped the ball.

 

& don't anyone call me a bad fan for BELIEVing! Lost Vegans were good. Not saying we WOULD have won. Nope. But I am saying I believe we would have won(had we trusted our depth). It's all moot..no one now will ever know.

[knucklehead91]

Having Meyers for the entire series, we likely would have won. The moment meyers came back, their odd man advantages and slot opportunities disappeared. We kept them to the perimeter and didnt allow many grade a chances.

[Toni Zamboni]

I Believe We Would Have Won, If........we had scored more goals than Vegas in game 7. 

[Devron]

There’s always IFS when you don’t win. That’s how she goes. I’m a big Demko fan as well Marky. Love both goaltenders but no one would have predicted that sort of performance from Demko. I don’t care how you slice it, Marky was our MVP and Demko was a rookie. Tough spot for a coach. Having said that as much as I would have cheered my ass of for my team. The likely hood of beating Dallas and then TBay would have been miracle on ice man. Love this team but if they ran out of gas a the end of the Vegas series how would they last going forward. Boys played their all and we coming back more experienced, faster, stronger for years to come.
 

No sense pondering the this and that. The same thread would have been made but backwards if they started Demko and he got lit up in Game 4

[Cromeslab]

Not gunna go down this rabbit hole,too many variables going into. Next season

Edited September 7, 2020 by Cromeslab

[ktcy2]

I guess if Boeser didn’t shoot it into Lehner’s catching glove........ 

[Nuxfanabroad]

3 minutes ago, Devron44 said:

There’s always IFS when you don’t win. That’s how she goes. I’m a big Demko fan as well Marky. Love both goaltenders but no one would have predicted that sort of performance from Demko. I don’t care how you slice it, Marky was our MVP and Demko was a rookie. Tough spot for a coach. Having said that as much as I would have cheered my ass of for my team. The likely hood of beating Dallas and then TBay would have been miracle on ice man. Love this team but if they ran out of gas a the end of the Vegas series how would they last going forward. Boys played their all and we coming back more experienced, faster, stronger for years to come.
 

No sense pondering the this and that. The same thread would have been made but backwards if they started Demko and he got lit up in Game 4

The 'ifs' exist before the roster is drawn up, or the game played, as well. Was it just Green who decided the roster? Maybe he'd discussed it extensively with JB & asst's? I don't know if such talks would occur? Not sure whether it's a singular or collective-call.

 

At the end of the day, if they want players to learn from gaffes, so too must coaches.

 

I don't see it as needless reflection, but a lesson they'd damnwell best learn from(finally). Use your depth.

[knucklehead91]

17 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Pls go back to that thread(5 in 7 strategy, etc...). It's Aug 29th(BLM break thing) day before gm 3. I said tell Jacob gm 3 is his; TD gm 4 is his. Five apparently agreed & +'d this suggestion.

 

Furthermore, every other fr*ckin' coach in the same situation used their other 'tender. It wasn't an earth-shattering notion.

 

Sorry. No revisionist-history here at all. Go read it. They dropped the ball.

 

& don't anyone call me a bad fan for BELIEVing! Lost Vegans were good. Not saying we WOULD have won. Nope. But I am saying I believe we would have won(had we trusted our depth). It's all moot..no one now will ever know.

Travis Green made the right choice to start Marky in the back to backs. Down 2-1 in the series to a very strong Vegas team. The risk of putting in Demko who had played 9 minutes of hockey after seeing no game action for months and going down 3-1 is too great of a risk. Unfortunately We still lost that game, depsite leading going into the 3rd, Marky tweaked something. But logically he would have been our best choice to try and win a pivotal and critical game.

Had we put Demko in and lost that game, Green would have been skinned alive as to why the f*** was a backup goalie in net in a crucial game. A guy who played a total of 9 minutes of game time in 5 months. Marky was playing lights out throughout the playoffs.
Its easy to play your 2nd string goalie in a back to back when you are leading in a series. Its not such an easy choice when you trail 2-1 and face the possibility of going down 3-1 which is devastating task of overcoming.

However, what New York Islanders did differently in their series was play their back up in game 3 and their starter in game 4 so that if game 3 slipped away, they could have their starting goalie fresh for the pivotal game 4.

Boston and Colorado were screwed and didnt have their true starters.

 

[Devron]

11 minutes ago, ktcy2 said:

I guess if Boeser didn’t shoot it into Lehner’s catching glove........ 

Or if they started super Loui I believe they would have won the series

 

 

kidding 

[Devron]

10 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

The 'ifs' exist before the roster is drawn up, or the game played, as well. Was it just Green who decided the roster? Maybe he'd discussed it extensively with JB & asst's? I don't know if such talks would occur? Not sure whether it's a singular or collective-call.

 

At the end of the day, if they want players to learn from gaffes, so too must coaches.

 

I don't see it as needless reflection, but a lesson they'd damnwell best learn from(finally). Use your depth.

Why wouldn’t coach Green and staff learn from his first year coaching in the NHL playoffs? Do you think they learnt nothing about themselves and the players?

 

Or Are you saying they didn’t learn quick enough through these playoffs?

[butters]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yis2AUJuMcI

[stanleysteamersmyl]

36 minutes ago, butters said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yis2AUJuMcI

Strange you posted this video.  My friend send me this youtube video the other day about the most popular sport in Shardara - Arm wrestling.

1000 members trained at this complex.  Most famous arm wrestler there is the Bruce Lee of arm wrestling - Kydyrgali Ongarbayev

 

[Nuxfanabroad]

1 hour ago, Devron44 said:

Why wouldn’t coach Green and staff learn from his first year coaching in the NHL playoffs? Do you think they learnt nothing about themselves and the players?

 

Or Are you saying they didn’t learn quick enough through these playoffs?

I am partly suggesting there's long been an organizational-reluctance with fresh faces, to have much faith. AV & WD were like this too.

 

Then we(fans mostly) are always noting we have one of the most onerous travel/scheduling/time zones etc...scenarios of all the 31 teams. We often lament(here on CDC, esp GDT's) the lousy 3-5 mins these kinda guys get in recall situations.

 

So guys like Graovac & Bailey wind up as an even bigger mystery box than Demko was. In Grao's case, with that multi-month injury it's somewhat understandable. But you're talking a very fresh 6'5" C who has a lot(like another contract) to play hard for. Then Bailey was putting up hatties last Fall/winter like a mad-man. These guys each had dozens of game-exp in the show. They might well have contributed a good push.

 

Then finally as a coach I'd sell this to the group. "Boys if it does go 7 I'm rolling with the lineup that doused StLoo. Only some of you guys will be extra rested & sharper!"

 

Then factor in how worn-down the bottom-6 must've been after hackin & whackin through the other 2 opponents. I didn't expect much change on the blueline(maybe an extra game/two for Benn). Mostly we'd been distributing mins well, & the position is just too tough to throw a youngster in vs a physically-amped opponent like LV.

 

I sincerely wanted to discuss these ideas in the Aug 29th thread..but it seemed heresy just to mention using depth. Not one poster responded to the notion I'd posted then. Does seem folks are quick to reply/admonish(sometimes) when one looks back in retrospect. Then next season we'll go back to whining how Billy Schmucker got 3:57 in his mid-wk call-up...

[24K PureCool]

We would have won easily had game seven been Saturday. With how well Demko was playing and how offense were suddenly dried up for Vegas, we could have definitely eked out two goals with our forwards having more jump. May have actually won the series had the games not been postponed.

[Timråfan]

4 hours ago, fanfor42 said:

10 Canucks had no playoff experience.  Plus Green. No playoff experience going in. That is very important to remember.

 

So he made some mistakes and they may have been big in the eventual outcome.  

 

I will say that game 1 he did not have the team ready to go.  When asked after the St. Louis series if he got everyone back to work right away he said no - we took a day off to enjoy it.  (Players and coaches). What happens - we get pasted. Rookie mistake that cost us the first game and gave Vegas their swagger.

 

Game 4 the obvious call was to start Demko but Green starts markstrom who loses and gets hurt. That's on Green. Demko would not have a groin pull as he would not have been tired. 

Same lineup game 7 following 20 hours after game 6 ended.  Again, that's on the coach. Again that cost us by having no fresh legs.  He knows his players and he made the call - that's on Green.

 

As it was we came within 6 minutes in game 7 of going to OT. So any of these decisions could have turned the tide and created a series win for Vancouver if Green had been better.

 

Gotta say, Green needs to be accountable for each of these points.  Its not sour grapes or picking on him it is simply that as a rookie playoff coach he didn't do his job as well as he could have and in many ways his shortcomings cost us.  Truth.

 

That's why there are people who aren't huge Green supporters.  He is still learning and he doesn't always do the right thing and in this case it is arguable that he contributed to the Canucks losing where a more experienced coach might have  taken the poker hand he was dealt and played his cards to a series win. (Deboer played Fleury in game 4 - he was good. They won.)

 

Just sayin. And Green lovers don't knee jerk here. I am not saying he sucks or is a lousy coach.  I am simply saying the truth.  He had no playoff experience and made some questionable decisions that he could have made better and possibly helped the team win not lose. I'm not saying we were ready to win the Cup this year.  I am simply saying that Green could have been better and as the margin of losing was slim he could have made the difference in us winning this series if he did a better job.

 

If the Canucks are going to win a cup then their young coach has to be as good as his best young players. He needs have the impact of a Petey or Quinn and not just a Virtanen.

 

To his credit - I think he would agree with this conclusion.

Good take on it... The fans here love to go for players throats as soon as they see a weakness and don't understand how important the coach is for the players game. 

[Timråfan]

4 hours ago, Tre Mac said:

 Eriksson...

...should have played when other players were injured. Release the Bull... 

[Devron]

21 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

I am partly suggesting there's long been an organizational-reluctance with fresh faces, to have much faith. AV & WD were like this too.

 

Then we(fans mostly) are always noting we have one of the most onerous travel/scheduling/time zones etc...scenarios of all the 31 teams. We often lament(here on CDC, esp GDT's) the lousy 3-5 mins these kinda guys get in recall situations.

 

So guys like Graovac & Bailey wind up as an even bigger mystery box than Demko was. In Grao's case, with that multi-month injury it's somewhat understandable. But you're talking a very fresh 6'5" C who has a lot(like another contract) to play hard for. Then Bailey was putting up hatties last Fall/winter like a mad-man. These guys each had dozens of game-exp in the show. They might well have contributed a good push.

 

Then finally as a coach I'd sell this to the group. "Boys if it does go 7 I'm rolling with the lineup that doused StLoo. Only some of you guys will be extra rested & sharper!"

 

Then factor in how worn-down the bottom-6 must've been after hackin & whackin through the other 2 opponents. I didn't expect much change on the blueline(maybe an extra game/two for Benn). Mostly we'd been distributing mins well, & the position is just too tough to throw a youngster in vs a physically-amped opponent like LV.

 

I sincerely wanted to discuss these ideas in the Aug 29th thread..but it seemed heresy just to mention using depth. Not one poster responded to the notion I'd posted then. Does seem folks are quick to reply/admonish(sometimes) when one looks back in retrospect. Then next season we'll go back to whining how Billy Schmucker got 3:57 in his mid-wk call-up...

Did we really have depth to switch out players though other then LE. Bailey was not the answer imo. The few minutes he got he looked out of place. I did like Graovacs game though. If we had Leivo and Ferland then I think that would have opened things up nicely depth wise but we didn’t. Like you said we had our top Dman not much we could to there. I wouldn’t have swapped Benn for Fanta.

 

I understand that Green could have done a thing or two different but much like our young core it was his first year as a NHL coach in the playoffs. I think he probably learnt quite a bit. It’s so so easy to say he should have put in Demko after the fact. 
 

We’ve had more depth then we’ve had in years but it’s still not good enough. Not for playoff hockey. And to tell you the truth there’s going to be a couple more years of growth. Our vets are going to need to be replaced in the next year or two.

 

There was something like 10 players without playoff exp. that’s half the roster. Our boys were tired simply from playing 2 teams in reality had no business beating. Both STL and LV are probably the 2 best teams in the west. It takes its toll

[Nuxfanabroad]

38 minutes ago, Devron44 said:

 so easy to say he should have put in Demko after the fact.

Are you talking about another poster? Because I clearly stated these things BEFORE game freeken' 3. That's what I've been saying for 10 days now. Even bumped the thread I've been referencing, for everyone's convenience.

 

& it's no longer "easy" to say this.. at all. I reallllly wanted Van to beat this arrogant cast of Vegans. I would gladly stand wrong/corrected right now, IFFF Green's hard-headed approach actually bore fruit! I'd LOOOOOVE to be flat-out wrong about this.

 

& lastly I'll repeat that I do like Green..but he went full-amateur here. This series was lost through poorly chosen rosters(in my mind), between games #4- #6.

Edited September 7, 2020 by Nuxfanabroad

[Devron]

21 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Are you talking about another poster? Because I clearly stated these things BEFORE game freeken' 3. That's what I've been saying for 10 days now. Even bumped the thread I've been referencing, for everyone's convenience.

 

& it's no longer "easy" to say this.. at all. I reallllly wanted Van to beat this arrogant cast of Vegans. I would gladly stand wrong/corrected right now, IFFF Green's hard-headed approach actually bore fruit! I'd LOOOOOVE to be flat-out wrong about this.

 

& lastly I'll repeat that I do like Green..but he went full-amateur here. This series was lost through poorly chosen rosters(in my mind), between games #4- #6.

The fact that this is even a discussion is pretty cool not going to lie. One game from the WCF. What a season

 

I don’t think you’re wrong, I just think we didn’t have the assets to sub out players. Again I know you stated this before game 4 but I see why he went with Marky, he’s the guy and Demko is a rookie. It would have been just as bad had Demko lost that game that’s all. It would have been an amateur coaching job starting a rookie when you have a Top 5 NHL goalie who stole the STL series. 

[Nuxfanabroad]

2 minutes ago, Devron44 said:

The fact that this is even a discussion is pretty cool not going to lie. One game from the WCF. What a season

 

I don’t think you’re wrong, I just think we didn’t have the assets to sub out players. Again I know you stated this before game 4 but I see why he went with Marky, he’s the guy and Demko is a rookie. It would have been just as bad had Demko lost that game that’s all. It would have been an amateur coaching job starting a rookie when you have a Top 5 NHL goalie who stole the STL series. 

Thanks, & then consider(cos' it's sometimes fun to ponder these things), how the reactions would've been...

 

Say we still lose game # 3. Then Thatcher comes in & stands on his head, winning game 4, by a 3-1 score.

 

Suddenly Jacob(who presumably is then healthy & rested) is thinking..'Wow! I'd better pull up my socks & win game 5, cos Thatch was lights-out!'

 

THEN(here's the kicker)..what are the Vegans thinking, at that moment?! OMG..these guys don't have ONE 'tending-monster..they F***ing have TWO! Meanwhile, we got one drama queen pin-cushioned by De-Bore! & one other guy that might fly off the handle.

 

..ahh, it all could've happened