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DarkIndianRises

[Proposal] Canucks and Islanders - Brock Boeser for Noah Dobson + ??? (Contingent on Toffoli signing)

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[proposal] Canucks and Islanders - Brock Boeser for Noah Dobson + ??? (Contingent on Toffoli signing)  
 

1) Re-sign Tyler Toffoli (or Granlund if Toffoli goes back to Cali).

2) Trade Boeser for Noah Dobson + ??? (whatever equates to fair value).   
 

The Islanders get some scoring help up front while Quinn Hughes possibly gets the Brent Seabrook to his Quinn Hughes.   Fair enough?

 

As far as our RW goes, it would still likely be strong for both the short term and long term.   We have Podkolzin in our system and he should be pretty decent in the not so distant future.   People are down on Jake Virtanen right now, but he still scored 18 goals last season (pace for 20) with limited 3rd line minutes.    Virtanen may or may not pan out, but he’s definitely a good calculated risk.


Losing Boeser would suck but we’d also get lots of inmediate cap relief while also potentially securing our defense for the next 10+ years.  Having a top pairing all situations dman is literally the only real major piece missing in our system.    
 

The addition of someone like Dobson would potentially allow for the Canucks to walk away from Edler and Tanev one day without worrying about someone not being able to fill their shoes.  
 

Miller-Pettersson-Toffoli (or Granlund)

Pearson-Horvat-Virtanen

Motte-Gaudette-MacEwen

Roussel-Beagle-Eriksson

 

Hughes-Myers

Edler-Dobson

Juolevi-Tanev

 

Demko

VetBackUp (I would move on from Markstrom)

 

And remember - we have Podkolzin waiting in the wings........right wing!  


@peaches5 - how do you like dem apples?  :-p

 

 

 

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The Islanders' cap situation here:  https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/islanders

 

They have 8.1M in cap space.  Demote Ladd and a 1M player and it gives them about 10M with a roster of 20.  They happen to have 3 RFAs:  Barzal, Toews and Pulock.

 

It's rather unrealistic to think they'll add Boeser and be left with only 5M to sign their RFAs who all have arbitration rights.  Also Boychuk is starting to reach healthy scratch territory and has 2 more years at 6M.  An ELC compensates that they are stuck with him.

 

It's not like they even have a spot for Boeser.  Lee at 7M x 6 years,  Eberle 5.5M x 4 years, Bailey 5M x 4 years all have significant term and dollars invested in them and full NTCs (save Bailey who is PPG in the post-season).  They also have Beauvillier who has had great playoffs and is still cheap but will need a raise in a year.  

 

NYI are in cap trouble.  They can't easily buyout Ladd or Boychuk and need to find a way to create room to even be able to sign Barzal.

     

Edited by mll
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4 hours ago, mll said:

The Islanders' cap situation here:  https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/islanders

 

They have 8.1M in cap space.  Demote Ladd and a 1M player and it gives them about 10M with a roster of 20.  They happen to have 3 RFAs:  Barzal, Toews and Pulock.

 

It's rather unrealistic to think they'll add Boeser and be left with only 5M to sign their RFAs who all have arbitration rights.  Also Boychuk is starting to reach healthy scratch territory and has 2 more years at 6M.  An ELC compensates that they are stuck with him.

 

It's not like they even have a spot for Boeser.  Lee at 7M x 6 years,  Eberle 5.5M x 4 years, Bailey 5M x 4 years all have significant term and dollars invested in them and full NTCs (save Bailey who is PPG in the post-season).  They also have Beauvillier who has had great playoffs and is still cheap but will need a raise in a year.  

 

NYI are in cap trouble.  They can't easily buyout Ladd or Boychuk and need to find a way to create room to even be able to sign Barzal.

     

Thank you for this post mll.

 

I was admittedly very unaware of NYI’s cap situation and was too lazy to analyze their situation.    
 

As far as my proposal goes, a hypothetical Boeser trade wouldn’t even have to necessarily be for Dobson.    Just the idea of.....

 

1) The Canucks (re)signing one of Toffoli or Granlund (as to ensure that we stay strong on the right side both short term and long term).

2) The Canucks trading Boeser for a very good young defensive prospect that will be on an ELC for atleast two more seasons which would not only give the Canucks significant immediate cap relief, but would also give Quinn Hughes the Brent Seabrook to his Duncan Keith so to speak (for potentiality the next ten seasons+).    

Even something like Brock Boeser to Detroit for Moritz Seider+ would have been good in my books (that obviously wouldn’t make sense for Detroit given where they are in their rebuilding process but I’m just giving an example).    
 

Colorado probably doesn’t have a lot of cap space either, but maybe even something revolving around Conor Timmins + if it was feasible.   
 

Just putting ourselves in a situation where we

 

A) get significant immediate cap relief

B-) Don’t lose much of anything on RW both short and term and long term via Toffoli or Granlund signing.

C) Solidify our defense for the long term by filling in our biggest organizational need (young top pairing right sided defenseman that can be counted on defensively), and giving Hughes the Brent Seabrook to his Duncan Keith so to speak.

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58 minutes ago, Nicklas Bo Hunter said:

Boeser for dobson+ Hosang. 

I’d be down for that but as mll pointed out above, the Islanders have cap issues of their own and so it may not be feasible.    

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8 hours ago, DarkIndianRises said:

Having a top pairing all situations dman is literally the only real major piece missing in our system.    

I am hoping we already have this in Juolevi. His injury history has hurt his development but he could fill that void. I am excited to see him make the jump next year. Here is hoping he stays healthy!

 

Brian Burke is a believer in this kid said he thinks he will be an All-Star in this league. But I do agree with your thoughts about needing to aquire more help on D and hopefully in the next few years we can acquire some solid top 4 help and draft at this position. A lot of CDC'ers seem to be high on Rathbone and his game.

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Dobson has left prospect territory and now considered a legit guy - only way we’d pry him out of NYI would be to also take on one of their albotrosse’s,  probably Ladd.   Actually feel that NYI would ask us to add if it was a straight over deal.   Dobson and Bouchard both are considered slam dunks still and should both have long careers.

 

Id suggest Bouchard but doubt EDM would make a trade like this within their division.   Broberg is another potential target.  Seider of course too.   CAR already moved a few of their Ds otherwise I’d suggest maybe Bean as well.   To me doesn’t matter so much if they are LHD or RHD - we need to replace one on each side anyways, even with OJ coming up.    Replacing Edlers cap hit would also be huge for this club with a young player on their ELCs.   Ty Smith in NJ is another possibility.

 

Of the prospects remaining and mentioned above, Bouchard is ranked around 23 best in the world, and Byram (no way we would get him) is ranked 2.   Seider next up at 7, then Ty Smith 9 etc etc.   All of them project well.   Seider looked like a bad choice at the draft - turns out Yzerman got the last laugh so far.    Doubt they move him straight over for BB at this point because they need to keep stinking it up for a couple years yet and they got the guy they wanted.
 

As for the OP.  I don’t want to trade BB and don’t think TT is at all an upgrade - at best lateral and very very likely a downgrade.   Do admit this plan has a lot of merit though (which is probably one of the reasons it keeps coming up).   This trade doesn’t work for the other team if they don’t have the cap space.  It only works if they do - or if we take something back (5-6 in cap) it negates getting the cap to sign TT.   I’d approach this as a one for one swap more then anything because cap won’t likely change much (including at least 3 million coming back).  

 

With that taken into consideration we could also just buy ourselves a TT but on defense when the time is right.   I don’t think that’s now - rather next off season given the sheer number of quality defenseman that could be available.  Hamilton might price himself out of CAR with Svechnikov coming up (7-9 the way he’s playing)... he’d be like landing a whale.   If not maybe Brodin or Petry.   Both of those guys would be huge upgrades on Stecher,Tanev or Edler.   Maybe all get re-signed ... but still others will be available. 
 

Unless the exchange is too good to pass on I’d like to keep what we have.   Prospects are just that - not everyone listed above is going to play 800-1000 NHL games.  BB will most definitely do that, likely at a high level once he peaks. 
5 million for TT?  Or 5 million towards Hamilton, Petry or Brodin and zero chance of blowing a trade?  Think I know which one JB will take.

 

Maybe re-visit this next off season.  But for now it’s a hard pass for me. 
 

Edit:  It’s no coincidence that Edlers deal is up the same year the ED is - but also feel JB was looking at it from the perspective of what else could be available.   Starting with 6 million is pretty nice...add 3 even with EP and QHs up to get Hamilton would turn us into contenders.   He’s been a top 10 RHD for years and scores a lot of goals - last year was leading the group of guys for the Norris when he went down.   Young too.   I’d do a 7 year deal with this guy if we had the opportunity. 

Edited by IBatch

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5 minutes ago, KirkSave said:

I am hoping we already have this in Juolevi. His injury history has hurt his development but he could fill that void. I am excited to see him make the jump next year. Here is hoping he stays healthy!

 

Brian Burke is a believer in this kid said he thinks he will be an All-Star in this league. But I do agree with your thoughts about needing to aquire more help on D and hopefully in the next few years we can acquire some solid top 4 help and draft at this position. A lot of CDC'ers seem to be high on Rathbone and his game.

Rathbone is 5’11”, at best Stecher 2.0 with offense - could live with that but his size is concerning.   Strange how Edler was fine against St Louis and Stecher was not, but against Vegas that flipped.  
 

OJ to me has a floor as our 3rd pairing D and a ceiling as Edlers long term replacement.    Any way we shake it our D will get an upgrade.   Our R side is definitely a question mark.  Rafferty hasn’t cracked the lineup yet and I doubt he will be anything more then a 3rd pairing upgrade.  This is where we need to look to free agency (again) to make it work long term like Myers.    Hopefully LE agrees to mutually terminate after this year is up, then we could swing it next off season, worst case the year after that.

 

JB will be focusing on RHD’s for sure the next couple of drafts.

 

On the bright side Hoglander has just moved into the top 30 best prospects league wide (28ish), five or so spots above Bouchard.   We do have pieces that could be swapped around to help our D as well.   Podz is 10...one spot after Ty Smith, 3 after Sieder.   And ahead of a lot of other great D prospects too.   Would you trade Podz straight across for Dobson?   I’d do it.  Same as Seider.   Would even consider Bean, Broberg and Bouchard.   Have to pay to play - I do have a problem trading a team and fan favourite Calder runner up for highly touted but unproven NHLers though. 

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8 hours ago, IBatch said:

Would you trade Podz straight across for Dobson?

I would do a deal involving 2 prospects but if we want help right away, I say try and sign a FA or make a trade for a bonafide top 4 NHL D-man, who is established and has many solid years to come.

 

I agree that our D needs an overhaul and in about 2 years time we should have 3 new regulars outside of Hughes, Myers and likely Tanev should he re-sign.

 

Not sure what it would cost but I would love to do a deal with Buffalo that results in Risto coming over.

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10 hours ago, IBatch said:

Rathbone is 5’11”, at best Stecher 2.0 with offense - could live with that but his size is concerning.   Strange how Edler was fine against St Louis and Stecher was not, but against Vegas that flipped.  
 

OJ to me has a floor as our 3rd pairing D and a ceiling as Edlers long term replacement.    Any way we shake it our D will get an upgrade.   Our R side is definitely a question mark.  Rafferty hasn’t cracked the lineup yet and I doubt he will be anything more then a 3rd pairing upgrade.  This is where we need to look to free agency (again) to make it work long term like Myers.    Hopefully LE agrees to mutually terminate after this year is up, then we could swing it next off season, worst case the year after that.

 

JB will be focusing on RHD’s for sure the next couple of drafts.

 

On the bright side Hoglander has just moved into the top 30 best prospects league wide (28ish), five or so spots above Bouchard.   We do have pieces that could be swapped around to help our D as well.   Podz is 10...one spot after Ty Smith, 3 after Sieder.   And ahead of a lot of other great D prospects too.   Would you trade Podz straight across for Dobson?   I’d do it.  Same as Seider.   Would even consider Bean, Broberg and Bouchard.   Have to pay to play - I do have a problem trading a team and fan favourite Calder runner up for highly touted but unproven NHLers though. 

I would also trade Podkolzin for Dobson if that idea came up.

 

I also really like Moritz Seider from Detroit.      
 

I don’t think that I’d trade Pod for Bean, Broberg, or Bouchard however.

 

Ps - If we are talking Islanders, and Benning decides that he doesn’t want to move Brock or Podkolzin (almost 100% unlikely) then I’d consider Jake Virtanen for Bode Wilde if that could be considered fair.

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37 minutes ago, DarkIndianRises said:

I would also trade Podkolzin for Dobson if that idea came up.

 

I also really like Moritz Seider from Detroit.      
 

I don’t think that I’d trade Pod for Bean, Broberg, or Bouchard however.

 

Ps - If we are talking Islanders, and Benning decides that he doesn’t want to move Brock or Podkolzin (almost 100% unlikely) then I’d consider Jake Virtanen for Bode Wilde if that could be considered fair.

It would be tough to trade Podz at all.   The reviews are all raving and I can’t wait to see him getting pucks back for us.    JB seems to be happy and comfortable with the talent level coming up on defense so maybe things aren’t quite as average as they seem.  Will be interesting to see how things unfold this summer and over the next two seasons - expecting to see quite a different look .... nice that our window is opened so quickly - just hope he does a better job of navigating it then Dubas and Chia pet did. 

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1 hour ago, SILLY GOOSE said:

Is Virtanen 1 year away from UFA?

2 years.  It's the earliest between 7 pro-years and age 27 and he already has 5 pro-years.  

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5 hours ago, SILLY GOOSE said:

Is Virtanen 1 year away from UFA?

This gives him some trade value or keep value for us.   Always thought we’d be giving him a modest .5-1million bridge for one more crack at it - but with cap and needing to trade a few bodies out not sure he won’t be a casualty of that (part of which was his disappearing act). 
 

JV, Stetcher and Pearson are the likely candidates for finding a new home if we are to sign Markstrom, TT and Tanev. 

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I would personally sculpt a statue of you if you got this to happen :lol:

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9 hours ago, mll said:

2 years.  It's the earliest between 7 pro-years and age 27 and he already has 5 pro-years.  

 

5 hours ago, IBatch said:

This gives him some trade value or keep value for us.   Always thought we’d be giving him a modest .5-1million bridge for one more crack at it - but with cap and needing to trade a few bodies out not sure he won’t be a casualty of that (part of which was his disappearing act). 
 

JV, Stetcher and Pearson are the likely candidates for finding a new home if we are to sign Markstrom, TT and Tanev. 

So here is my dreamworld proposal- Jake signs a very team friendly 1 year contract.  No arb-just wants to prove he's a better player than he's shown to stay in VAN.  Dreaming I know.

 

BUT JB has got to get some cap relief too so.....

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2 hours ago, SILLY GOOSE said:

 

So here is my dreamworld proposal- Jake signs a very team friendly 1 year contract.  No arb-just wants to prove he's a better player than he's shown to stay in VAN.  Dreaming I know.

 

BUT JB has got to get some cap relief too so.....

Really not that difficult to sign all of them if Ferland is on LTIR.   Means Pearson or Sutter is the odd man out - Pearson is the lowest hanging fruit.  Then no go for Leivo let him walk - a 1 million raise for JV and Stecher is given the Hutton treatment.   That said I don’t like it.  Rather NOT sign TT and let him go somewhere else.  If we do that we don’t have much troubles cap wise at all.  

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30 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Really not that difficult to sign all of them if Ferland is on LTIR.   Means Pearson or Sutter is the odd man out - Pearson is the lowest hanging fruit.  Then no go for Leivo let him walk - a 1 million raise for JV and Stecher is given the Hutton treatment.   That said I don’t like it.  Rather NOT sign TT and let him go somewhere else.  If we do that we don’t have much troubles cap wise at all.  

Ferland wants to continue to play per Drance.  He points out that he can seek a 2nd opinion and says the Canucks can't game plan as if they'll have the 3.5M available.

 

Btw if Ferland goes on LTIR they can't use up the full 3.5M or they won't be able to recall players from the AHL or add someone like Podkolzin mid-season.  When a team goes in LTIR they can't bank cap space, so they have to be under the cap by the player's full cap hit to be able to add him.  And under LTIR the performance bonus that is still attainable has to be covered.  

 

When a team is not in LTIR and starts the season 300K under the cap after 2 days they have enough to recall a 900K cap hit for 1 day.  2 days of 300K banked + the 300K for the day = 1 day at 900K.  

 

Under LTIR there is no cap space banked.  So the team has to be under the cap by the full cap hit including the performance bonus still attainable.  For example a Juolevi recall is no longer 863K (and possibly less if there is banked cap space similar to example above) but 1.7M in full because of his performance bonus.  Similar issue for Podkolzin if they wish to add him mid-season.    

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