theo5789 Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 Let's just say I rather have Brodin for 6 million than Myers and I think Myers has shown his worth to be around the 6 million mark. This is a very good deal for Minni. In a normal market, I was expecting 5.5 for Tanev (but then I think Brodin may have gotten 6.5-7), so with that said, I think and hope we can sign Tanev around 4.75 million. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 (edited) I hope Dumba now gets moved fast, it is inevitable at this point. I want to get past the Boeser for Dumba idea, or us to finally pull the trigger on it. Hughes-Tanev Edler-Dumba Juolevi-Myers Rathbone-Rafferty Looks fine to me. I am ok one way or the other. Edited September 15, 2020 by Provost 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 19 minutes ago, Provost said: I hope Dumba now gets moved fast, it is inevitable at this point. I want to get past the Boeser for Dumba idea, or us to finally pull the trigger on it. Hughes-Tanev Edler-Dumba Juolevi-Myers Rathbone-Rafferty Looks fine to me. I am ok one way or the other. Why is it inevitable? They can protect 4Ds for expansion. Kaprizov is expansion exempt. Kunin and Greenway have yet to show they deserve to be protected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, mll said: Why is it inevitable? They can protect 4Ds for expansion. Kaprizov is expansion exempt. Kunin and Greenway have yet to show they deserve to be protected. You can protect 3D... and all their spots are now taken by guys with NMC. They trade Dumba or lose him for nothing. They also have too much money tied up in D and a big need to improve up front. Protecting the 8 total skaters and having 4 of them being Denas they lose a forward they will have more guys to protect by the time expansion comes around, or they are accepting being bad next year just to keep Dumba. Edited September 15, 2020 by Provost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 2 hours ago, mll said: Brodin's contribution is not offensive - it's defensive. He allows to limit the time the Wild have to spend defending. He is an elite defensive D. He's the reason why Dumba can take those offensive risks as he has Brodin covering for him. exactly, not sure why thats such a controversial statement. With a flat cap, buying some declining years, and probably forcing a trade is why i think they payments a little high. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Provost said: You can protect 3D... and all their spots are now taken by guys with NMC. They trade Dumba or lose him for nothing. They also have too much money tied up in D and a big need to improve up front. They can protect 4 Ds + 4 Fs. NYI even protected 5 Ds last time. Several teams went with 4 Ds + 4 Fs. They don't have 4 Fs worth protecting over their 4Ds. Fiala and Eriksson Ek. Parise and Zuccarello have NMCs. The risk they are taken is very low so they could even agree to waive. Even if they don't, it doesn't look to be a sufficient reason to go 7F + 3 Ds. Foligno, Kunin, Hartman, Greenway, Rask, Donato - don't see why they would protect any of these guys over their Ds. Edited September 15, 2020 by mll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 34 minutes ago, Provost said: I hope Dumba now gets moved fast, it is inevitable at this point. I want to get past the Boeser for Dumba idea, or us to finally pull the trigger on it. Hughes-Tanev Edler-Dumba Juolevi-Myers Rathbone-Rafferty Looks fine to me. I am ok one way or the other. Doesn't Minni need C's tho? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Robert Long said: Doesn't Minni need C's tho? Yep, but they also badly need offence... they have holes all over their forward group. One move isn’t going to fix them all and getting the hometown guy who can be a main face of the franchise isn’t an opportunity they would likely pass up unless there was another amazing deal out there. I am not saying we will do the trade, as per my comment I just want the Dumba trade to be made so we can take about something else... Edited September 15, 2020 by Provost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Provost said: Yep, but they also badly need offence... they have holes all over their forward group. One move isn’t going to fix them all and getting the hometown guy who can be a main face of the franchise isn’t an opportunity they would likely pass up unless there was another amazing deal out there. I am not saying we will do the trade, as per my comment I just want the Dumba trade to be made so we can take about something else... they did OK - 14th in the league and did pick things up in the 2nd 1/2. The Brodin deal makes more sense to me if they've already lined up a potential C deal with a couple of teams for Dumba. Edited September 15, 2020 by Robert Long 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 (edited) 51 minutes ago, Provost said: Yep, but they also badly need offence... they have holes all over their forward group. One move isn’t going to fix them all and getting the hometown guy who can be a main face of the franchise isn’t an opportunity they would likely pass up unless there was another amazing deal out there. I am not saying we will do the trade, as per my comment I just want the Dumba trade to be made so we can take about something else... They had only 6 goals less than Vancouver in the same amount of games this season. They were the 6th highest scoring team at 5v5 this season and had 15 more than Vancouver. The Wild had 9 empty nets to the Canucks 13. The Canucks had 5x 3v3 goals to the Wild's 1. They started the season with only 30 goals in October where they had internal things to deal with that's now behind them. Where are you playing Boeser? They don't have a Pettersson to set him up. They are also a slow team. Apparently Kaprizov is not all that fast either. Their only F that has above average speed is Fiala. How do you expect them to have a decent lineup when their Cs are: Staal who is no longer a C1 - he has lost a step and he's more of a goal scoring C than a playmaker. Bjugstad coming back from spinal surgery and was better as a winger in Florida Eriksson Ek is a defensive C Sturm has spent the past season in the AHL. He might not even be a C in the NHL. Rask might be a buyout candidate and does not have the speed to play in the NHL anymore. Koivu has been informed that they won't bring him back. Their 4 Ds are elite together - not many teams have that good of a D-corps. I find pretty illogical the idea that it's better for them to break that up to get a winger (or an average C). Edited September 15, 2020 by mll 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EP40. Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 @Robert Long are you honestly that blind to not see that Brodin >>> Tanev in literally every way possible (offensively, defensively, availability, age, etc - you name it). Despite Tanev being 3+ years older Brodin has more GP than him and thus far more reliable. Not a knock on Tanev but insinuating Brodin’s extension has any implications on Tanev’s next contract is bonkers. As certain others have said, trying to group the 2 together would be the equivalent of grouping Getzlaf-Crosby or a Backstrom-Mackinnon or a Toffoli-Rantanen...there’s such a clear and obvious gap in tiers/value it’d be like saying a green light + yellow light on the road are both the same things. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 1 hour ago, EP40. said: @Robert Long are you honestly that blind to not see that Brodin >>> Tanev in literally every way possible (offensively, defensively, availability, age, etc - you name it). Despite Tanev being 3+ years older Brodin has more GP than him and thus far more reliable. Not a knock on Tanev but insinuating Brodin’s extension has any implications on Tanev’s next contract is bonkers. As certain others have said, trying to group the 2 together would be the equivalent of grouping Getzlaf-Crosby or a Backstrom-Mackinnon or a Toffoli-Rantanen...there’s such a clear and obvious gap in tiers/value it’d be like saying a green light + yellow light on the road are both the same things. I said I think its a little high, for the following reasons: it buys time into his declining years, its covid loss time, its a flat cap, it forces a trade. Its a premium price at a time where a better deal could have been possible. Its not a knock on the player, its on the GM. I also was talking specifically on the point of production regarding him vs Tanev. If you go and look at it objectively its hard to see that much of a difference between the two. E.g. Tanev had 7 primary assists, Brodin 9 last year. Not sure why you're trying to turn this into high drama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EP40. Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 3 minutes ago, Robert Long said: I said I think its a little high, for the following reasons: it buys time into his declining years, its covid loss time, its a flat cap, it forces a trade. Its a premium price at a time where a better deal could have been possible. Its not a knock on the player, its on the GM. I also was talking specifically on the point of production regarding him vs Tanev. If you go and look at it objectively its hard to see that much of a difference between the two. E.g. Tanev had 7 primary assists, Brodin 9 last year. Not sure why you're trying to turn this into high drama. It’s a bargain signing. Minny inked him now and not next summer (when his current contract expires) for a reason which your very own reasons prove. You can see they found a way to get this done early and utilized covid/the flat in their favour. If the latter is not the case, no reason why Brodin settles for anything less of $7m AAV. So yea, no. They definitely got a bargain here. If you’re going to “specifically” talk production, then using vanilla surface categories like assists and goals shows you’re out of your depth here. It’s almost as relevant as +/- for defenders. Advanced analytics show Brodin provides way more offense for his team and I’m pretty sure he and his agent + the Wild aren’t dumb enough not to know something as simple as that. Again using just generic surface stats like that shows you don’t really know what you’re on about especially considering the supporting cast both respective players have had to work with over their careers. ...with all due respect but zero drama on my end & that was actually my first post in the thread. Just wanted to chime in after seeing your ill-advised posts imo and many others. If anything you’re the one attempting to look down on others (vast majority of others) and make a mountain out of a molehill who simply disagree with what you’ve said. If it was up to me and I were you, I’d enjoy knowing others have a difference of opinion other than mines and in this case, most likely the correct opinions. And there’s nothing wrong in that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post JM_ Posted September 16, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted September 16, 2020 33 minutes ago, EP40. said: It’s a bargain signing. Minny inked him now and not next summer (when his current contract expires) for a reason which your very own reasons prove. You can see they found a way to get this done early and utilized covid/the flat in their favour. If the latter is not the case, no reason why Brodin settles for anything less of $7m AAV. So yea, no. They definitely got a bargain here. If you’re going to “specifically” talk production, then using vanilla surface categories like assists and goals shows you’re out of your depth here. It’s almost as relevant as +/- for defenders. Advanced analytics show Brodin provides way more offense for his team and I’m pretty sure he and his agent + the Wild aren’t dumb enough not to know something as simple as that. Again using just generic surface stats like that shows you don’t really know what you’re on about especially considering the supporting cast both respective players have had to work with over their careers. ...with all due respect but zero drama on my end & that was actually my first post in the thread. Just wanted to chime in after seeing your ill-advised posts imo and many others. If anything you’re the one attempting to look down on others (vast majority of others) and make a mountain out of a molehill who simply disagree with what you’ve said. If it was up to me and I were you, I’d enjoy knowing others have a difference of opinion other than mines and in this case, most likely the correct opinions. And there’s nothing wrong in that! my bad for thinking what actually goes in the net matters. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Kane Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 It's too bad that Tanev needs to be buried, because Brodin is being severely underrated. Both are great defenders, but Brodin is younger, more durable, better defensively (stats and eye test back it up), better offensively. I saw an argument that Brodin put up more points due to Dumba being his partner. What about Quinn Hughes for Tanev? Also, in what universe is Myers worth his 6M AAV, and Tanev worth less than Myers? Jonas Brodin is prime Duncan Keith tier defensively, but doesn't have quite the same offensive skill set. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostsOf1994 Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 @mll cdc won't let me quote you.. Sorry bud, i disagree. Minny needs to burn it down and start fresh. Staal, Parise, Suter are all 35+ costing over 18 million. jared freaking Spurgeon makes 7.575 for 35-40 points as an undersized d man, that contract runs until 2027. Suter brodin dumba and spurgeon as top 4 d cost over 25 mil... Boldy is their most recent 1st rounder, with greenway, kunin, Eriksson ek and kaprizov. Do any of those players scream franchise C ?or even 1st line C ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HorvatToBaertschi Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 Brodin was noticeably the best player on that entire roster during the play-in series. He's a gem and I really hopehe finds his way on this team somehow, eben though the odds that that happens is some'thing like 0.00000001% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, GhostsOf1994 said: @mll cdc won't let me quote you.. Sorry bud, i disagree. Minny needs to burn it down and start fresh. Staal, Parise, Suter are all 35+ costing over 18 million. jared freaking Spurgeon makes 7.575 for 35-40 points as an undersized d man, that contract runs until 2027. Suter brodin dumba and spurgeon as top 4 d cost over 25 mil... Boldy is their most recent 1st rounder, with greenway, kunin, Eriksson ek and kaprizov. Do any of those players scream franchise C ?or even 1st line C ? None of the moves Guerin is making is suggesting that they are going towards a rebuild. Parise has an NMC. He's not going anywhere if he doesn't want to move. He also has a recapture contract - it's a potential Luongo situation for the Wild. And who would want his contract. Zuccarello also has an NMC. And again here who would want his contract - 4 more years at 6M. Staal is up in a year and likely won't be brought back. Koivu is done in Minnesota. Suter has an NMC and won't waive either. Also a recapture contract. He is still a very effective D. During the break Scheifele actually said he's the hardest D to play against. It's Guerin that signed Spurgeon to that contract. Why would he sign him to that contract if he wanted to rebuild. They have an elite D-corps. They will never be able to tank because Suter-Spurgeon and Brodin are just so solid defensively - all 3 have full NMCs with Guerin handing out 2 of them. Guerin identified goaltending as an area he wants to improve this off-season. They had the worse goaltending tandem in the league this season and still finished only 1pt behind Vancouver. Get an average goalie and who knows where they end up. They were the 6th highest scoring team at 5v5. At F they have mostly young player past Parise, Zuccarello and Staal. Staal is probably gone in a year. They can't move Zuccarello and Parise given their NMCs. Foligno is the next oldest and he turned 29 last month - he's younger than Roussel or Sutter. Guerin also wants to try and extend Foligno this off-season - that again is not a rebuilding move. He apparently got plenty of calls for Foligno this past TDL. Others are young. Trade say Kunin to get a 2nd round pick and draft a player just like him? Fiala was drafted the same year as Virtanen and just broke out. Eriksson Ek, Kaprizov and Greenway are 2015 draftees like Boeser and Gaudette. Kunin was drafted in 2016. They have to let those guys the time to develop. Not everyone can just step in like Pettersson. None of the players you list are centres other than Eriksson Ek. They have Khovanov as their only C prospect that has top-6 upside but he projects as a C2. He just bailed on them to go to the KHL. They hope to get him back at some point. That's why it's illogical if they use Dumba to get a winger when their C-depth is so terrible. Their roster is unimpressive past a few players and their Ds. Guerin says he wants to make changes to get better but it's not rebuilding moves. GMs try and improve their team all the time without tearing it down. He moved Zucker to create a spot for Kaprizov. They might move Dumba to improve elsewhere as they have Addison coming. Nothing much different than the Canucks wanting to move on from some players to bring in others. Edited September 16, 2020 by mll 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timråfan Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 20 hours ago, Robert Long said: what stat is confusing you @Monty? Lol, well, if not so many here blocked me I would beat your confuse moi-mojitos record. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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