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BC Election Thread: Voting Day Oct. 24, Last Week of Campaigning

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2 minutes ago, The Lock said:

The very fact that he's doing this election is putting himself and his party above everything else that's been going on. There's a pandemic happening. He should be concentrating on that. not his own power grabs.

 

Exact same tactics the Liberals would probably do, just with a different name.

He’s expanding his policy mandate to a majority. What’s inherently wrong with that for a govt who was elected to lead the province to do? Is that corrupt? Is it illegal?  Is it even precedent setting? It’s none of those if you think about it. 

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3 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

He’s expanding his policy mandate to a majority. What’s inherently wrong with that for a govt who was elected to lead the province to do? Is that corrupt? Is it illegal?  Is it even precedent setting? It’s none of those if you think about it. 

Except he has been able to lead the province despite having a minority and there's a pandemic on our hands. He's literally using the pandemic as a means of this power grab. So, to answer your questions:

 

Is it corrupt? We will see but I will say this: don't come to me if in 5 years we see scandals like we did with the Liberals because that's how our politics seem to work these days. There has to be a reason as to why they want the power: something the Greens are holding them back on. It's suspicious to me. If they were transparent about it I'd be fine with this, but they're not and that's a problem.

 

Is it illegal? Of course not, nor that would make any sense for that to be an argument for or against.

 

Is it precedent setting? My answer to this kind of falls in line with my answer to is it corrupt: there is a chance it is. I want to know why this election is happening beyond the "we just want more power." This is a HUGE red flag to me if this is not being displayed.

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8 hours ago, Sharpshooter said:

1) Why would you think you should get a rebate when clearly you still have a job, can choose to do overtime

and make more than those who actually need the pandemic recovery assistance?  Seems like your complaining about why you’re not getting a handout when you don’t seem to need one. 
 

2) At least you are a homeowner with a decent job that allows you to know that you’ll have a roof over your head on a month to month basis. There are those who don’t have that luxury and are in actual need of support in the form or freezes/rebates, particularly the elderly, single parents, and small businesses. 
 

3) Clearly you’re not a woman, young or poor. And I guess you simply have the inability to put yourselves in their proverbial shoes and see how costly contraception can be. Also, its

not just for sex, but also for other medical reasons women take contraceptive medication. 
 

4) You don’t like the idea of kids

riding the bus? You do know most who really young are riding with a guardian don’t you? Also, 12 year old are pretty smart and sharp enough to ride transit. They do it everyday and there’s rarely ever been any issue with that and ‘stranger danger’. The money that their families would save on a bus pass however, would be a clear benefit and cost reduction which would put more money in the pockets of younger families. Why would you have an issue with kids and their families saving more money, that could end up back into the economy?

 

5) ICBC, and our insurance, is in a mess, not because of this gov’t, but the previous Lieberals one. It’s going to take time to undo the damage the Liebs under the Christy Clark gov’t wrought upon it. 
 

I also find selfish that you boil it down to the fact that you won’t get anything personally. This kinda ‘what’s in it for me’ mindset is what we ought to be defending ourselves and our shared society against. YMMV. 

Well when I am voting for someone, yea its whats best for me and my family.  It sure the hell isn't going to benefit me at all what the NDP is posting.  

1) Well its my tax dollars they are talking about giving to people for voting for them as a "perk" for the NDP getting back in.  At this point the Libs are better bet for me with a cancelation of PST (which I don't agree with either, lets not sink our province into more debt as much as I would like less taxes) as that would actually benefit me more than the no money they would give my family.  I sure the hell haven't gotten an extra dime since the pandemic started but I have seen BILLIONS given away to people and companies when theres TONS of jobs out there just waiting to be filled all spring/summer.  Ah yes I should be punished for working 6-7 days a week to keep a roof over my head while sacrificing many family hours in the process. 

2) So I have to work and pay my property taxes go up yearly, my hydro goes up, my gas goes up, all my costs are always rising but renters are getting a freeze while others aren't or are getting cheques cut for some extra money just because they didn't move somewhere more affordable and save for a home? 

3) I am not against any contraception if its needed but adding that as one of these "perks" is dumb in my opinion to advertise, stuff like this should be an automatic when needed.  I have always been for needed medical to be free (as we are in Canada) and especially for women who I know need many more things like this much more than men.  May not have laid that out in my post but I am 100% always for stuff thats needed to help people out (but not stuff like free condoms, free birth control, etc. just to keep people from being morons and not practicing safe sex, etc.)

4) Ok if they are with guardians then I am all for it, I was just stating I think I wouldn't let my kid go on a public bus without a parent as I don't think its safe. I went on a bus in Vancouver once, not happening again, there was a guy shooting up 4 rows back so i said screw it not doing that again.  Wasn't cheap/free transit for kids on the agenda last time?  I could have sworn that it was but I must be wrong.  Transit is already like 90% subsidized via taxes anyways.

5) LMAO you love blaming the Liberals for everything.  ICBC has been ****ed since the NDP brought it in 40+ years ago.  The Liberals didn't help it at all and that should be held against them but to try and make it sound like the NDP is some saints with ICBC is laughable.  You think increasing all of our rates was a good thing where people were having difficulty paying it before and sure the hell do now?  I went from 43% discount to suddenly owing an extra $60 or whatever it was a month.  Thats ridiculous that I went from max to suddenly paying a bunch more when old people got theirs dropped because they have 40+ years.... I mean comeon thats stupid that I am suddenly punished when I already maxed out my discount. 

 

And yes of course I want to things to benefit me and my family, why the hell would I vote for someone that negatively affects those I love and those I work so hard to help support.  Yes its a "me" mentality, why would it not be, its about me and my family.  At the end of the day I need to do whats best for my family and everyone else can fend for themselves so when only 2% of people will actually benefit from this $3400 savings is a laughable promise to be promoting. 

  • Hydration 1

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7 minutes ago, Russ said:

And yes of course I want to things to benefit me and my family, why the hell would I vote for someone that negatively affects those I love and those I work so hard to help support.  Yes its a "me" mentality, why would it not be, its about me and my family.  At the end of the day I need to do whats best for my family and everyone else can fend for themselves so when only 2% of people will actually benefit from this $3400 savings is a laughable promise to be promoting. 

I just want to highlight this as I completely agree with it. Everyone SHOULD be selfish about this because it SHOULD be about who they want to lead them.

 

This whole "you're being selfish" nonsense is one of the silliest arguments in my opinion, sorry @Sharpshooter, but if you're not looking out for yourself then what are you doing?

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16 minutes ago, The Lock said:

I just want to highlight this as I completely agree with it. Everyone SHOULD be selfish about this because it SHOULD be about who they want to lead them.

 

This whole "you're being selfish" nonsense is one of the silliest arguments in my opinion, sorry @Sharpshooter, but if you're not looking out for yourself then what are you doing?

And it's not that I don't want people to succeed and be successful, I want every person to succeed the best they possibly can and not have problems but at the end of the day others succeess will impact me very little and I need to make sure my family succeeds best we possibly can because they are the only ones that really matter in my life every day. 

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27 minutes ago, Russ said:

And it's not that I don't want people to succeed and be successful, I want every person to succeed the best they possibly can and not have problems but at the end of the day others succeess will impact me very little and I need to make sure my family succeeds best we possibly can because they are the only ones that really matter in my life every day. 

I think a good budget will have SOME  benefits for all British Columbians.......  We are all in this thing together. Win / WIN is how good agreements are made.  Something in it for everyone.

 

My mother is  older and she watched the debate. She decribes Horgan as a used car salesman.   I explained to her that the Liberals had 16 years and made a mess of our province by selling it out to offshore investors.

 

Basically both major political parties in BC are seriously flawed. 

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4 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said:

I think a good budget will have SOME  benefits for all British Columbians.......  We are all in this thing together. Win / WIN is how good agreements are made.  Something in it for everyone.

 

My mother is  older and she watched the debate. She decribes Horgan as a used car salesman.   I explained to her that the Liberals had 16 years and made a mess of our province by selling it out to offshore investors.

 

Basically both major political parties in BC are seriously flawed. 

Completely agree with you on that point. I don't like either party so I can't decide which evil I want in power here and I would never go greens because they sound good in theory until you try and figure out how they will pay for stuff then it's always shut down because really they have no idea how to run an economy, easy to spout off all this good stuff up make the world better but really no plan how to pay for anything. 

Edited by Russ

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9 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said:

I think a good budget will have SOME  benefits for all British Columbians.......  We are all in this thing together. Win / WIN is how good agreements are made.  Something in it for everyone.

 

My mother is  older and she watched the debate. She decribes Horgan as a used car salesman.   I explained to her that the Liberals had 16 years and made a mess of our province by selling it out to offshore investors.

 

Basically both major political parties in BC are seriously flawed. 

I voted Green for the first time in protest of this 2 party crap selection we deal with.. in vain I am sure though, hearing lots of ndp votes

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50 minutes ago, Russ said:

Well when I am voting for someone, yea its whats best for me and my family.  It sure the hell isn't going to benefit me at all what the NDP is posting.  

1) Well its my tax dollars they are talking about giving to people for voting for them as a "perk" for the NDP getting back in.  At this point the Libs are better bet for me with a cancelation of PST (which I don't agree with either, lets not sink our province into more debt as much as I would like less taxes) as that would actually benefit me more than the no money they would give my family.  I sure the hell haven't gotten an extra dime since the pandemic started but I have seen BILLIONS given away to people and companies when theres TONS of jobs out there just waiting to be filled all spring/summer.  Ah yes I should be punished for working 6-7 days a week to keep a roof over my head while sacrificing many family hours in the process. 

2) So I have to work and pay my property taxes go up yearly, my hydro goes up, my gas goes up, all my costs are always rising but renters are getting a freeze while others aren't or are getting cheques cut for some extra money just because they didn't move somewhere more affordable and save for a home? 

3) I am not against any contraception if its needed but adding that as one of these "perks" is dumb in my opinion to advertise, stuff like this should be an automatic when needed.  I have always been for needed medical to be free (as we are in Canada) and especially for women who I know need many more things like this much more than men.  May not have laid that out in my post but I am 100% always for stuff thats needed to help people out (but not stuff like free condoms, free birth control, etc. just to keep people from being morons and not practicing safe sex, etc.)

4) Ok if they are with guardians then I am all for it, I was just stating I think I wouldn't let my kid go on a public bus without a parent as I don't think its safe. I went on a bus in Vancouver once, not happening again, there was a guy shooting up 4 rows back so i said screw it not doing that again.  Wasn't cheap/free transit for kids on the agenda last time?  I could have sworn that it was but I must be wrong.  Transit is already like 90% subsidized via taxes anyways.

5) LMAO you love blaming the Liberals for everything.  ICBC has been ****ed since the NDP brought it in 40+ years ago.  The Liberals didn't help it at all and that should be held against them but to try and make it sound like the NDP is some saints with ICBC is laughable.  You think increasing all of our rates was a good thing where people were having difficulty paying it before and sure the hell do now?  I went from 43% discount to suddenly owing an extra $60 or whatever it was a month.  Thats ridiculous that I went from max to suddenly paying a bunch more when old people got theirs dropped because they have 40+ years.... I mean comeon thats stupid that I am suddenly punished when I already maxed out my discount. 

 

And yes of course I want to things to benefit me and my family, why the hell would I vote for someone that negatively affects those I love and those I work so hard to help support.  Yes its a "me" mentality, why would it not be, its about me and my family.  At the end of the day I need to do whats best for my family and everyone else can fend for themselves so when only 2% of people will actually benefit from this $3400 savings is a laughable promise to be promoting. 

It’s not that you’re looking out for your family. There’s nothing wrong with that. However, complaining that you didn’t get any handouts and that others who are in a more desperate situation than you did, is the kind of selfishness I was referring to. 
 

Those ‘perks’ you’re referring to were helping people keep a roof over their heads, food on the table, pay bills and stave off bankruptcy or falling further into debt. You’d rather they not get that because you didn’t get something? The NDP helped tens of thousands of people across the province who were laid off, etc., exactly when they needed it. 
 

The PST cut is a sham and you know it. That will put the province further into debt and there’s no plan on how to fund/offset that revenue loss. They obviously have to cut services to taxpayers in order to fund it. Talk about wasting your tax dollars. They’re paying Paul by robbing Peter. 
 

What jobs were you talking about during and shortly after the lockdown in the spring and early summer?? Most businesses were shut down. 
 

Where are people supposed to move to in a pandemic, when there are rental shortages as it is? Which magical kingdom of low rental housing near their work, school, etc, would you have them move to. Save for a home? How’s an elderly person, student with debts, poor person, single family income earner, person who was just laid off, supposed to save for a house in Metro Vancouver?  Pray tell. Let me guess, they should pull up on their bootstraps a little harder right? 
 

Birth Control, isn’t just taken by women in order to avoid pregnancy. It’s taken for other health reasons by many women. It’s a medical necessity for them, not a ‘perk’. 
 

You took a bus once eh? Cool. Your opinion is certainly of great value when it comes to the matter of whether or not children should be able to ride for free to take some financial burden off families. Oh wait, it doesn’t benefit your family, so we should totally scrap it. I forgot. My bad. 
 

You’ve also completely misplaced your ICBC rate anger. When the NDP was running things our rates were lower, and we even enjoyed rebates way back when. When the Lieberals used it as their govt’s piggy bank to balance a budget that they blew a hole right through that surplus that was keeping rates modest had to go up. Private insurance will also increase your cost. It’s not a panacea for your rates. 
 

You probably didn’t vote NDP last time, and I doubt you ever were going to this time either. You sound more like a conservative platform voter. You don’t seem to understand that in a society when things get bad for those around you, it’ll eventually get bad for you too. That’s the problem with voting selfishly. Making sure all families have the ability to thrive will ensure that yours does as well, due to your hard work and social infrastructure that supports your hard work. 
 

Nothing personal Russ. I work a ton of OT too(union worker), look out for my family, hate paying higher premiums/bills. I get it. I just don’t think making things worse for others will necessarily make things better for me in the short term or long term.  YMMV.(Your Mileage May Vary)

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1 hour ago, The Lock said:

I just want to highlight this as I completely agree with it. Everyone SHOULD be selfish about this because it SHOULD be about who they want to lead them.

 

This whole "you're being selfish" nonsense is one of the silliest arguments in my opinion, sorry @Sharpshooter, but if you're not looking out for yourself then what are you doing?

‘If I don’t get something when someone else did then I’m against that’,  is actually the silliest and childish arguments, in my opinion, when it comes to electing policy makers who ought to make policies that affect the most good/benefit for the most people possible, as well as the least amongst us. You may think otherwise. Remember that a rising tide lifts all boats.

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Now I might have to vote green.They said that a green government would bring back BC ferries as a crown corp again.

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4 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

‘If I don’t get something when someone else did then I’m against that’,  is actually the silliest and childish arguments, in my opinion, when it comes to electing policy makers who ought to make policies that affect the most good/benefit for the most people possible, as well as the least amongst us. You may think otherwise. Remember that a rising tide lifts all boats.

So basically you are of the utilitarian mindset? What affects the most people positively is best?

 

Personally I think utilitarian is a dangerous path to go to be honest but that's my opinion. I'm not saying that to spite. That's just my opinion of it. Utilitarian is not always the most ethical path.

Edited by The Lock

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12 minutes ago, The Lock said:

So basically you are of the utilitarian mindset? What affects the most people positively is best?

 

Personally I think utilitarian is a dangerous path to go to be honest but that's my opinion. I'm not saying that to spite. That's just my opinion of it. Utilitarian is not always the most ethical path.

I’m not a utilitarian. 

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2 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

I’m not a utilitarian. 

Okay, let me ask you this then: if the government came up with a policy that set you back but put "the most people" forward, would you agree with that or would you be against that?

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3 minutes ago, The Lock said:

Okay, let me ask you this then: if the government came up with a policy that set you back but put "the most people" forward, would you agree with that or would you be against that?

Set me back how? Put people forward how? 
 

This should be fun. 

Edited by Sharpshooter

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6 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

Set me back how? Put people forward how? 

For example, you lose some of your retirement but the most people benefit from it.

 

If you need more specifics in terms of benefit, let's say it helps out the healthcare system or something.

Edited by The Lock

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6 minutes ago, The Lock said:

For example, you lose some of your retirement but the most people benefit from it.

 

If you need more specifics in terms of benefit, let's say it helps out the healthcare system or something.

Do you mean money?  Was it just me who lost just a portion of my ‘retirement’? Which people benefit from it? What’s their benefit? How much more did it help out the healthcare system? Why was the healthcare system in such shambles that my retirement was required to fund it? 

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4 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

Do you mean money?  Was it just me who lost just a portion of my ‘retirement’? Which people benefit from it? What’s their benefit? How much more did it help out the healthcare system? Why was the healthcare system in such shambles that my retirement was required to fund it? 

Okay, now I think you're dodging the question by asking more questions, but....

 

You and a few others (maybe a few thousand or something) lost that portion. The overall society benefitted. Dollar for dollar they benefitted, so a lot of people lost their retirement but it was spread over more people. Also, keep in mind this is a theoretical question, so let's say the aging population caused it to go in shambles from needing more money due to increasing health costs.

 

(Editted to correct an answer I gave since I said "you" and then said "multiple people". I'm tired.)

Edited by The Lock

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9 minutes ago, The Lock said:

Okay, now I think you're dodging the question by asking more questions, but....

 

You and a few others (maybe a few thousand or something) lost that portion. The overall society benefitted. Dollar for dollar they benefitted, so a lot of people lost their retirement but it was spread over more people. Also, keep in mind this is a theoretical question, so let's say the aging population caused it to go in shambles from needing more money due to increasing health costs.

 

(Editted to correct an answer I gave since I said "you" and then said "multiple people". I'm tired.)

I mean, I should be able to ask for elaborations if you’re going to attempt to pigeon-hole me into some philosophical moral theory classification, no? 
 

How much did I lose in my retirement? Can I still retire? Comfortably? Destitute? What is the population number that benefited? 

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5 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

I mean, I should be able to ask for elaborations if you’re going to attempt to pigeon-hole me into some philosophical moral theory classification, no? 
 

How much did I lose in my retirement? Can I still retire? Comfortably? Destitute? What is the population number that benefited? 

Actually, this answers my question quite well. It's going to depend on what the sacrifice is, otherwise you wouldn't be asking for clarification on it. So no, you're not utilitarian as you will still look out for yourself, meaning at times you are also "selfish" (as you should be). ;)

 

This was actually where I was hoping you'd be going with this to be honest. lol

Edited by The Lock

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