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[Rumour] Canucks will not retain $ or add a sweetener for Loui to be moved


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28 minutes ago, Squamfan said:

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Does not include Ferland 4.5 cap hit. Lol and people think he is a good GM

Ferland is a 3.5 cap hit, if hes healthy its not a bad deal and if hes not he'll retire and get that cap space back. Only real egregious blunder is Loui to be honest. They overpayed Sutter and had to overpay free agents to come here at that time. Not great but I can see why those signings were made. Either way were ahead of the curve now for everything Benning has done. Wouldn't have a lot of our nice new shiny toys if it wasn't for him. Canucks are now a place players want to play and the GM has to get credit for that. Alas some people on here will never get it but thats okay. Its also fair to be critical so can't really fault people for their opinion however misguided it may be.

Edited by ohmy
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17 minutes ago, Squamfan said:

ya whn the gm stabs you in the back and goes to the owner, that is not lindens fault

I don't understand this need to infantalize Linden. The man made his re-tool plan, and it didn't work out. We're paying for that next year in terms of some dead cap, but that was the risk they all knowingly took. 

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21 minutes ago, ohmy said:

Ferland is a 3.5 cap hit, if hes healthy its not a bad deal and if hes not he'll retire and get that cap space back. Only real egregious blunder is Loui to be honest. They overpayed Sutter and had to overpay free agents to come here at that time. Not great but I can see why those signings were made. Either way were ahead of the curve now for everything Benning has done. Wouldn't have a lot of our nice new shiny toys if it wasn't for him. Canucks are now a place players want to play and the GM has to get credit for that. Alas some people on here will never get it but thats okay. Its also fair to be critical so can't really fault people for their opinion however misguided it may be.

Those things just aren't true.  All reports are that Ferland wants to keep trying to play and has no intention of retiring at this point.  His cap hit doesn't go away, and even on LTRI it virtually guarantees that we have to push our ELC bonuses from this coming year into the next year since LTIR can't be used to pay bonuses.

We did not "have" to sign those free agents at all.  There is an ability to walk away from negotiations when the price gets too high.  We had plenty of veterans already on the roster, and there are always veterans who are still contributors available after the July 1st frenzy who can be signed for cheap and low term.  There are also always veterans other (contending) teams have been trying to shed that are just slightly overpaid for what they bring.  Taking those on instead gets you assets and you are facing less term generally.

For all the good Benning has done, there is the other side which isn't good.  UFA signings are his worst category of performance by a long shot.  His drafting has been mixed as well.  You can't call two misses in the top 10 as a stellar drafting record (in a re-draft, both Virtanen and Juolevi go way lower)... above average is the grade he gets on that front.

This summer is Benning's chance to improve his overall grade dramatically.  If he can find a way to exit from the mess of his UFA signings without giving up too much... that is great.  If we end up with a worse roster on paper because we lose players to free agency that we can't afford because of $20+ million in waste cap space... then his grade goes down.  He hasn't shown a lot of creativity in the past, so I am worried about how this summer goes.

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2 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Linden was the one making 'unfair to the Sedins' comments. You sure you don't have that backwards?

Nope. Part of the reason Linden quit was because the Aquilini’s were trying to avoid a rebuild. If you disagree, just look at all money Benning has spent on crap UFA’s since Linden has left. Sure would be nice to have a bunch of cap room to go with our elc’s right now.

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21 minutes ago, sampy said:

Nope. Part of the reason Linden quit was because the Aquilini’s were trying to avoid a rebuild. If you disagree, just look at all money Benning has spent on crap UFA’s since Linden has left. Sure would be nice to have a bunch of cap room to go with our elc’s right now.

Most (all?) of the UFA's since Linden have left have been useful, good signings. Roussel/Beagle are a touch rich (when we were still lacking leverage... shocker) but otherwise you're talking out of your posterior.

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8 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Most (all?) of the UFA's since Linden have left have been useful, good signings. Roussel/Beagle are a touch rich (when we were still lacking leverage... shocker) but otherwise you're talking out of your posterior.

A tad rich for Beagle and Rouss?? They couldn’t trade those contracts if they wanted too. How about Myers, Ferland and Benn? That’s almost $18 millions on depth players. You could even add Baertschi, Spooner and Sutter to Benning signings. I like Benning, he’s done great at the draft, which Canucks haven’t been good at in 50 years, but they are in cap trouble because of him, NOT Linden.

Edited by sampy
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The thing is that the Canucks do have leverage over Eriksson.  They can do whatever they want to do with Loui by sending him to minor and let him earn his final 2 years of the contract.   If he doesn't like it and there is no taker, then he has the right to retire.  He doesn't have NMC anymore where the Canucks would not be able to send him to the minors with NMC attached to his contract.  If Benning felt that there is a need for a young prospect to make the team, he will do it without hesitation..

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1 hour ago, Provost said:

 

 

 

Re-signing Connor Brown and Chris Tierney will cost in the $7-8 million range at a minimum.  Leaving $11 million to reach the floor, and needing to sign 11 more players for a 23 man roster.... so just $1 million average.

 

They are also missing a starting goalie and 2 top 4 D out of those 11 remaining players.  Filling any of those slots even with low end guys is going to cost well over a million dollars.  So reaching the cap floor is a certainty.

 

 

I think we can trade Loui against Brown and Tierney. Their ownsers save 11 mill if so. 

Then we can ship out Baertschi, Roussel, Benn, Beagle, Goldobin etc with a little retained and help them fill up the roster. 

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9 minutes ago, sampy said:

A tad rich for Beagle and Rouss?? They couldn’t trade those contracts if they wanted too. How about Myers, Ferland and Benn? That’s almost $18 millions on depth players. You could even add Baertschi, Spooner and Sutter to Benning signings. I like Benning, he’s done great at the draft, which Canucks haven’t been good at in 50 years, but they are in cap trouble because of him, NOT Linden.

We don't want to trade Beagle FWIW. He's not going anywhere because he's a damn good 4C, consummate pro and veteran leader. His contract (while certainly not a bargain) has nothing to do with it.

 

Roussel, is a perennial 30 point/borderline 2nd line production, 2 way, elite pest who was heavily pursued as a free agent. He's entirely movable, particularly with our depth at W and as part of the solution to afford retaining an even better Toffoli.

 

Myers came in $1m lower, with less term and no ED protection than everyone was fearing. You show me the lineup of top 4, prime aged UFA D who went to a new team at less than $6m (and only 5 years, with no ED protection) in the last few years and I'll agree he's a 'bad contract'.

 

Ferland likewise came in about $1m less than most were assuming. He's had injury issues after being cleared medically. Excrement happens.

 

Benn is a short term contract who granted, hasn't played up to expectations... But if a $500k 'overpayment' on an expiring this year, depth D contact is your best argument for Benning's supposed 'gross mismanagement'...

 

To this day, Benning's only meaningful f- up (with hindsight), was signing Eriksson. Something done and heavily driven by Linden's influence to be 'fair to the Sedins' FWIW.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Timråfan said:

I think we can trade Loui against Brown and Tierney. Their ownsers save 11 mill if so. 

Then we can ship out Baertschi, Roussel, Benn, Beagle, Goldobin etc with a little retained and help them fill up the roster. 


They aren’t “trying” to lose... they are trying to find value players and avoid spending a lot of money.

 

Why would they trade useful market value players for a bunch of overpaid, worse players?  If they want to spend those dollars, they can pick up players like Killorn and Stepan for some of their extra picks, and be better for the same money.

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3 minutes ago, Provost said:


They aren’t “trying” to lose... they are trying to find value players and avoid spending a lot of money.

 

Why would they trade useful market value players for a bunch of overpaid, worse players?  If they want to spend those dollars, they can pick up players like Killorn and Stepan for some of their extra picks, and be better for the same money.

Not as much fun... 

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6 minutes ago, aGENT said:

To this day, Benning's only meaningful f- up (with hindsight), was signing Eriksson. Something done and heavily driven by Linden's influence to be 'fair to the Sedins' FWIW.

Does this effect the competitiveness of next season. Yes. By how much? TBD.

 

Does this effect locking down the new core with long term deals? No.

 

So yes, it might be a step back next season in terms of points. But then again, thats why you play the games. 

 

You can't really sugar coat it, Loui's contract is terrible. But it does evaporate, just like Baer, Spooner and Pearson, Benn and Edler too in one year. We'll have tons of cap in one season from now. Heck you can throw in a Loui buyout then too if you want another 2.5. We'll have Podkolzin and Hoglander on ELCs, Juolevi on a nice bridge deal as well. 

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14 hours ago, NHL97OneTimer said:

You forgot the last point.  Bettman decides that this loophole has gone on long enough and penalizes the Canucks.  

 

 

I didn't "forget" anything.

In 2016/17 there were 10 mutual terminations in a single season.

Half the league has done this.

I'm well aware of the selectively applied "Luongo rule" that retroactively penalized some, but not all, teams that engaged in backdiving contracts under the previous CBA.

 

But mutual termination is allowed and does happen with some regularity - the Canucks have every right to do so - it depends on Eriksson's consent/agreement.

The idea that it 'would' be penalized if Vancouver did it - may not be irrational given the league's track record - and Bettman et al could attempt to selectively disallow it once again, but the Canucks have every right to proceed as if they have every right to do what half the other teams in the league have exercised.

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2 hours ago, aGENT said:

Linden was the one making 'unfair to the Sedins' comments. You sure you don't have that backwards?

2015/16 vs 2018/19

 

We arent talking about the same thing.

 

JB felt the cupboards were full and we were talented enough to make a push. Linden wanted to play it cooler and not go for it yet. 

 

Was JB wrong? Not really, but now that the impossible to expect scenario of a cap freeze happened, we are stuck.

 

Everyone admitted at the time including you that we had to overpay to get them to come to a bad team. Wait a year and they'd sign for less because the team looked way better.

 

Beagle, Roussel, Schaller, Baertschi all got signed that summer.

 

All I said is that Linden disagreed with the direction and the direction was clearly to sign a bunch of vets that off season. 

 

The fact you are arguing about what already happened makes no sense.

 

Lastly, we signed Beagle for $3M to score no goals and play defense. Eriksson is only costing $1M this season and $3M next season to a team to score no goals and play defence. He's tradable to a team that isn't near the cap.

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3 hours ago, Robert Long said:

you need a mix of vets and youth for proper development. Loui would help on the PK for a lot of teams.... but with all the baggage and the covid crunch it looks like we'll be eating Loui's salary this year almost certainly. Which may not be a bad thing if it keeps us from signing even more long term 30+ contracts tbh. 

It's a crap situation. LE is utterly useless really. I'm not even sure he's a guy teams want in the mix as a veteran leader. Maybe he is but, I'm so jaded at this point I can't comment without being biased. 

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3 hours ago, ohmy said:

Ferland is a 3.5 cap hit, if hes healthy its not a bad deal and if hes not he'll retire and get that cap space back. Only real egregious blunder is Loui to be honest. They overpayed Sutter and had to overpay free agents to come here at that time. Not great but I can see why those signings were made. Either way were ahead of the curve now for everything Benning has done. Wouldn't have a lot of our nice new shiny toys if it wasn't for him. Canucks are now a place players want to play and the GM has to get credit for that. Alas some people on here will never get it but thats okay. Its also fair to be critical so can't really fault people for their opinion however misguided it may be.

In regards to the Sutter deal: if he hadn't all of a sudden become injury prone the moment he got here that contract was just fine. The guy was a rock in any other jersey. Gets to Vancouver and missed significant time. Uhg. 

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3 hours ago, Squamfan said:

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Does not include Ferland 4.5 cap hit. Lol and people think he is a good GM

people that take their (self-trolling, if I give you credit) cues from TSN are worth an "Lol" as well....

and at least I can spell Baertschi.

 

There are two redundancies in that list - and one absurdity.

One is the idea that both Sutter and Beagle are expendables.  Sutter might be an option to move cap - the idea that both of them are expendable is an absurdity.  There's a reason this young team has a 'foundation' - whether highlight reel fans realize it or not.   There is literally no way the team would move both - and they don't need to, not even close.

 

Baertschi is, for the most part, a concussion casualty - who was otherwise peforming and tracking as a middle six winger worth that cap hit.

His 58 goals in 225 games is an average of 21 goals per 82 games here....and people whine about his cap hit of 3.3 million.

 

If they're too dumb to include a Jordie Benn - the 7th/8th D - over one of their shutdown, pk centers, they're too dumb to take seriously.

 

Eriksson 6.0

Sutter 4.38

Roussel 3.0

= 13.38

 

Steen  5.75

Bozak 5.0

Sundqvist 2.75

= 13.25

 

Er, look at those dumbass contracts in St Louis' bottom six.

And people think that's a good, well managed team/franchise, "Lol"z

 

 

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16 minutes ago, Moose Nuckle said:

2015/16 vs 2018/19

 

We arent talking about the same thing.

 

JB felt the cupboards were full and we were talented enough to make a push. Linden wanted to play it cooler and not go for it yet. 

 

Was JB wrong? Not really, but now that the impossible to expect scenario of a cap freeze happened, we are stuck.

 

Everyone admitted at the time including you that we had to overpay to get them to come to a bad team. Wait a year and they'd sign for less because the team looked way better.

 

Beagle, Roussel, Schaller, Baertschi all got signed that summer.

 

All I said is that Linden disagreed with the direction and the direction was clearly to sign a bunch of vets that off season. 

 

The fact you are arguing about what already happened makes no sense.

We probably will never know what happened 

Just before Linden left he did state we are going younger and giving the younger guys a chance, then we sign Roussel, Beagle and Schaller, at that point maybe Linden didn't agree with the direction and stepped down ?, Possibly Benning and Weisbrod went to Ownership behind Linden to get them?

Benning might not be the backstabber type, but Weisbrod has been according to  Davis and McGrady as the type, and is Bennings main man, so maybe it was a powerplay for direction and security and Linden had enough of a dysfunctional ownership/management team?

I never was excited or disappointed by the Weisbrod hiring or promotion, but was surprised

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