[Discussion] Demko to Ottawa

[JM_]

56 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

I understand potentially using Demko to move a contract, but I'm not overly sold on the idea of selling Demko to recoup picks. 

 

It's almost October, Markstrom will be 31 in January. How long can he sustain the level of play he's had the last two seasons?

 

Demko will be 25 in December, his being younger theoretically helps us with an extended window. If we trade him in favour of Markstrom how long will it be before we're looking for another replacement? I like DiPietro as a prospect, but I'm not sure I'd count on him as a successor over Demko. 

 

Why would we move Demko for a pick or two when odds are we're getting a mid first tops and spending likely at least a few years waiting for whoever we select to develop. Is freeing up some cap space a year early as opposed to buying out Loui next season really worth it? 

I'm leaning this way as well. 

 

I'm not sure Ottawa needs Demko. They have Nilsson and Hogberg for next season, and they'll likely want to protect Hogberg. Detroit seems like a much better fit to me, but I don't really want to lose Demko now that we've seen what he can do.

 

[mll]

Garrioch on Ottawa's possible goaltending plans with quotes by Dorion on their goaltending prospects.

https://ottawasun.com/sports/hockey/nhl/ottawa-senators/snapshots-anders-nilssons-future-is-still-up-in-air-will-the-senators-deal-for-a-goalie-dorion-thanks-borowiecki

 

The belief is Ottawa has dipped its toe into the NHL’s goaltending trade market which will be active around the draft. It includes Pittsburgh’s Matt Murray, Arizona’s Darcy Kuemper, Carolina’s Peter Mrazak and Toronto’s Fredrik Andersen.

 

If the Senators do a deal for a goalie, they wouldn’t want with a lot of term, so they could see if they could get someone on the free agent market when it opens Oct. 9 as well.

 

LOTS OF GOALIES IN THE SYSTEM

It may make sense for the Senators to bring in a veteran for a couple of seasons so the organization can determine where the likes of prospects Joey Daccord, Filip Gustavsson, Kevin Mandolese and Mads Sogaard are going to fit in down the road. All have shown promise, however, they need time.

 

“We feel that we have depth and quality at the goaltending position,” Dorion said. “First, and foremost, we had a plan for him, we wanted him to spend have a year in the ECHL and then come to the American league. We went from a worst-place team to a first place team with Joey Daccord in our net and we feel he’s very talented.

 

“Gustavsson was a highly-touted prospect, and he’s had ups and downs in the minors, but we feel he’s a goalie that has a high upside. Mandolese was the goaltender of the year in QMJHL and I would argue there wasn’t a better goalie in the second half of the season.”

 

Sogaard, selected last season, is expected to play another year of junior.

 

“When you’re 6-foot-7 and you have the skating ability or lateral ability of a Sogaard, he’s a bit raw but we feel we have four good goaltending prospects coming through our ranks,” Dorion added.

 

 

[Provost]

13 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

How about

 

Demko

 

Late 1st

 

Or

 

Demko

Eriksson/Sutter

 

2nd

NYI 1st is 28th pick and Ottawa’s 2nd round pick is #33rd.

 

Not very far apart, but the cache of a 1st is much higher.

 

For me the key is ditching cap in that move, so Demko just for a late pick does not intrigue me.  We aren’t likely to get a player as good as Demko with whoever we get for a late 1st.  The value would be to flip that 1st to me.

 

[VegasCanuck]

Demko isn't going anywhere. The sticking point on Markstrom's contract is that they won't give him a NMC.

[Coconuts]

12 minutes ago, Robert Long said:

I'm leaning this way as well. 

 

I'm not sure Ottawa needs Demko. They have Nilsson and Hogberg for next season, and they'll likely want to protect Hogberg. Detroit seems like a much better fit to me, but I don't really want to lose Demko now that we've seen what he can do.

 

It's not sounding like Ottawa's interested in goalies, given that they won't be competing for a while I wouldn't be surprised if they have Hogberg a shot either. 

 

Trading Demko for assets and then flipping those assets still leaves the succession question and questions about how long Marky can maintain this level of play as he ages. I'm very much for keeping Demko.

 

It'd be nice to have picks for this season's draft, but I honestly don't care too much. Missing top picks from a draft ain't a problem so long as it doesn't turn into missing top picks every draft. 

 

You were asking if we'd be okay taking a small step back, I wouldn't be surprised if JB and co were willing to eat a year of cap complications to open things up next season. I don't see a management group who's been so keen on drafting wanting to throw away picks and young players to clear cap space unless they're getting an upgrade in another area. 

Edited September 24, 2020 by Coconuts

[JM_]

1 minute ago, Coconuts said:

It's not sounding like Ottawa's interested in goalies, given that they won't be competing for a while I wouldn't be surprised if they have Hogberg a shot either. 

 

Trading Demko for assets and then flipping those assets still leaves the succession question and questions about how long Marky can maintain this level of play as he ages. I'm very much for keeping Demko.

 

It'd be nice to have picks for this season's draft, but I honestly don't care too much. Missing top picks from a draft ain't a problem so long as it doesn't turn into missing top picks every draft. 

 

You were asking if we'd be okay taking a small step back, I wouldn't be surprised if JB and co were willing to eat a year of cap complications to open things up next season. 

This draft is going to be a weird one with lots of misses. No one can scout the kids properly.

 

I do think that Jim's fine with letting some of our UFA and RFAs walk, in order to have flexibility in 2021/22. The stories about Jim not eating salary or losing assets to move Loui proves that imo. 

 

 

[Coconuts]

6 minutes ago, Robert Long said:

This draft is going to be a weird one with lots of misses. No one can scout the kids properly.

 

I do think that Jim's fine with letting some of our UFA and RFAs walk, in order to have flexibility in 2021/22. The stories about Jim not eating salary or losing assets to move Loui proves that imo. 

 

 

Yeah, you're basically going off whatever you had before a bunch of leagues shut down. There's a lot that won't be able to taken into account like hot tears to end the season, stellar play in playoffs, ect.

 

Could work in our favour if guys drop to the mid/lower rounds. Outside the first and maybe second round it's a crapshoot, though perhaps less so for guys who scout for a living. 

 

I hope those stories are true, him being able to stand firm is huge if so. 

[wildcam]

1 hour ago, NUCKER67 said:

I believe Dorion said they weren't going to re-sign Andersson, and so I wonder who they have in mind to play goal.  OTT has 3 1st round picks this year I think. Wow, so I imagine they might be interested.

 

Maybe the deal will be Demko and Eriksson for one of their late 1sts? Yes, Loui makes a bit (although not $6 anymore), but Demko doesn't make much. That would be very enticing for a rebuilding team looking for a goalie of the future. 

Erickson only gets paid 3 million this year and cap counts for 6 million? Helps a team at bottom of cap...Like a bonus 3 million..

[Provost]

45 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

It's not sounding like Ottawa's interested in goalies, given that they won't be competing for a while I wouldn't be surprised if they have Hogberg a shot either. 

 

Trading Demko for assets and then flipping those assets still leaves the succession question and questions about how long Marky can maintain this level of play as he ages. I'm very much for keeping Demko.

 

It'd be nice to have picks for this season's draft, but I honestly don't care too much. Missing top picks from a draft ain't a problem so long as it doesn't turn into missing top picks every draft. 

 

You were asking if we'd be okay taking a small step back, I wouldn't be surprised if JB and co were willing to eat a year of cap complications to open things up next season. I don't see a management group who's been so keen on drafting wanting to throw away picks and young players to clear cap space unless they're getting an upgrade in another area. 

Ottawa doesn’t actually have any NHL goalies and will need to acquire one.  Nillson will be over a year since he played due to missing most of the season with a concussion, he hasn’t started skating yet even.  Hogberg has played less than Demko.

 

They have prospects that aren’t NHL ready and aren’t as good as Demko.  The one thing a young, bad team can do to be respectable is to have solid goaltending.  They don’t have that even remotely right now.

 

Trading Demko means you have signed Markstrom for a 4-5 year term.  We have a natural succession in DiPietro right in that timeframe.  In a couple years DiPietro is highly regarded as a prospect will be a backup, then a couple more years he can gain more starts.

 

in the meantime you have flipped Demko for the ability to retain important players for us in the short term and gained important assets for the long term.  There is no magical method of addressing issues with our roster and not giving up anything of value.

Edited September 24, 2020 by Provost

[Coconuts]

35 minutes ago, Provost said:

Ottawa doesn’t actually have any NHL goalies and will need to acquire one.  Nillson will be over a year since he played due to missing most of the season with a concussion, he hasn’t started skating yet even.  Hogberg has played less than Demko.

 

They have prospects that aren’t NHL ready and aren’t as good as Demko.  The one thing a young, bad team can do to be respectable is to have solid goaltending.  They don’t have that even remotely right now.

 

Trading Demko means you have signed Markstrom for a 4-5 year term.  We have a natural succession in DiPietro right in that timeframe.  In a couple years DiPietro is highly regarded as a prospect will be a backup, then a couple more years he can gain more starts.

 

in the meantime you have flipped Demko for the ability to retain important players for us in the short term and gained important assets for the long term.  There is no magical method of addressing issues with our roster and not giving up anything of value.

If Ottawa needs a placeholder, they could easily grab one from what looks to be a saturated goalie market and not have to give up and take on assets. Ottawa isn't going to be competing for at least a few years, not sure if Demko being young really entices them or not. 

 

They could sign one and get Hogberg some pro experience, they're going to sink regardless given the division they're in. They're extremely unlikely to beat out the Habs, Panthers, Leafs, Lightning, and Bruins. Bringing in a young goaltender with #1 potential isn't going to change that with the team they've got. I could see them being interested in Demko, but realistically I think they'd be fine grabbing someone that only costs them cash and standing pat as they continue to rebuild. 

 

And I'm not as sold on DiPietro, though I think he's a great prospect. Not when we've got Demko where he's at right now. Not sure about Markstrom as he ages either. Does he sustain his level of play? I'd rather roll the dice on Demko and use the cap savings to get him a solid guy to share the load with. We've put years into his development, he looks like he could be great, I want to see what he does. 

 

And no, there are no magic beans that are going to fix the fact that we've got cap sunk into Eriksson. But waiting another year allows Sutter, Pearson, Baer, Edler, and Benn to come off the books while making Eriksson's buyout much more manageable. Edler likely comes back, but I doubt it'll be for 6m. Riding things out during a season where a number of teams likely regress as well due to cap complications wouldn't be the end of the world. 

Edited September 24, 2020 by Coconuts

[oldnews]

I'd prefer this approach...

 

To Utica

LE

To Van

termination.

 

If they're sending Gaudette to Snottawa, no way I'd be packaging Demko in there as well - Tierney or not.

 

Tierney would not be the target I'd seek from them - he may seem the most 'obvious', I don't see him as terribly realistic, at least not at a value I'd bother to spend, a player they're likely to want to retain, and not necessarily the 'type' of center I'd want to return.  Don't get me wrong - he's a good two way center, young, and a good faceoff guy - but I'd prefer to keep Demko and target a slightly younger, slightly less asset cost, heavier forward - Nick Paul - also a good young faceoff guy, solid young defensive, hard working forward - who brings more heaviness - at less cost, in return.

 

Modify the deal to take Demko and Tierney out, possibly throw in a Benn, and I'd consider it.

 

Otherwise, it's hardball with LE - riding busses vs agreeing to terminate.  

If I'm spending assets to move contracts, there are other options at lesser cost than Demko (or even Gaudette) - Roussel, Benn....I might even consider flipping and replacing Pearson over moving young assets like in this proposal.

 

 

[BarnBurner]

I don't understand why any of you are willing to trade Demko just to scrap Loui's contract. 

 

Be patient and stop throwing around hair-brained ideas that toss aside our potentially elite assets. 

 

He's way ahead of Marky at the same age. 

[Ghostsof1915]

Even if the return is negligible I'd rather lose vets than add sweeteners.

 

- Sutter

- Roussel

 

A 7th round pick or even future considerations is fine. There's over $7 million savings right there.

 

As loathe as I am to let Tanev walk. Bottom line is this is his first healthy year since 2015-16. As they say, they call it a career year for a reason.

I'd rather gamble with rookies on the right side of defence. Or try and sign someone for a reasonable deal.

 

I'm on the fence on Stecher. He showed in the playoffs what he lacks in sheer size, he makes up for in effort, and positioning.

I'm fine with deals for Toffoli, Markstrom, MacEwan, Gaudette, and even Virtanen.

Markstrom and Tanev might be out of the teams hands anyways depending on how other markets covet them.

But if we can find a deal that sends Jake in exchange for a young RHD with some size all the better.

We have Rafferty, Woo, and Juolevi already waiting in the wings.

 

We would have to overpay to get rid of Eriksson, and who wants to pay $6 million a season for a 35 year old winger who if you are lucky will get you 25 points in a full season?

It's not like the Canucks have extra draft picks to burn.

 

 

[Rabbit]

I really don't like to trade Demko.  He is our future top goalie.

If we trade Demko, we need re-sign Marky who asked 6M + long term contract + NTC.  I prefer Benning will not do that.

 

For Loui, if no trade made, just send him to AHL.

[Angry Goose]

6 hours ago, NUCKER67 said:

I believe Dorion said they weren't going to re-sign Andersson, and so I wonder who they have in mind to play goal.  OTT has 3 1st round picks this year I think. Wow, so I imagine they might be interested.

 

Maybe the deal will be Demko and Eriksson for one of their late 1sts? Yes, Loui makes a bit (although not $6 anymore), but Demko doesn't make much. That would be very enticing for a rebuilding team looking for a goalie of the future. 

 

If they need a goalie they can sign one in free agency.  I don’t see why they would pursue demko so heavily that would be willing to trade a first round pick and take on Eriksson 

 

 

 

Edited September 24, 2020 by SILLY GOOSE

[BowtieCanuck]

4 hours ago, Heretic said:

If they trade Demko, I'll start cheering for the Kraken.

 

Any fan that wants (or even suggests) to trade Demko, should start cheering for the Leafs.

 

Same. Trading Demko could easily end up being one of those 'Cam Neely' level trades that fans would regret.

We've finally got a strong core with this team and it seems like so much of CDC wants to break it up ASAP.

[JeremyCuddles]

Very hopeful to not only move out Eriksson but also get a 1st rounder in the end as well. Tierney isn't chopped liver either. If Benning worked this out he'd be a god. I love Demko but with the cap being what it is being able to take in a dead cap player like Eriksson has never been more valuable. I love Demko but he's not getting rid of Eriksson's contract and getting you a first rounder. Gaudette is worth a 3rd rounder on a good day tbh. 

[timberz21]

I don't want to get rid of Eriksson that bad.  

 

Might as well just pay a 1st rounder like the Leafs did for Marleau, if we are going to do a trade like this.

 

 

[timberz21]

13 hours ago, Provost said:

Moving Eriksson also helps with our cap issues...
 

Keeping Demko is great, but if you can get value for him and we have the ability to sign Markstrom we end up in a good spot.

 

Also imagine following up the original proposal with flipping the 1st we get.

 

To Tampa:

late 1st from Ottawa

Woo

+? a mid/low pick?

 

To Van:

Killorn

Cernak

 

Then Tampa has cap space to sign their RFAs who are currently risking being rendered offer sheets that they can’t match.  We get a nasty 2nd pairing young RD and a solid top 6 veteran forward.

How exactly?  You're shipping Demko who cost 1M...unless you go with Dipietro, you're not going to find a solid backup for 1M.  Dipietro hasn't proven he's NHL ready yet.  If anything these playoffs showed us is we need 2 solid goaltenders.

 

You're also getting back Tierney who's making 3M and needs to be re-signed.  Doubt he's going to sign anything below 4.5-5M.   Plus you trade a solid asset in Gaudette who's not going to cost you that much in the short term.  I fail to see how that proposal helps our cap space.  Basically you're only replacing Eriksson's cap space with a better player, but with more term and we are getting weaker in goals.  All that for a late first?

 

Then you still have decisions to make on Toffoli, Virtanen, Stetcher.  Not sure how you're fitting Killorn and Cernak also?

[Provost]

1 hour ago, timberz21 said:

How exactly?  You're shipping Demko who cost 1M...unless you go with Dipietro, you're not going to find a solid backup for 1M.  Dipietro hasn't proven he's NHL ready yet.  If anything these playoffs showed us is we need 2 solid goaltenders.

 

You're also getting back Tierney who's making 3M and needs to be re-signed.  Doubt he's going to sign anything below 4.5-5M.   Plus you trade a solid asset in Gaudette who's not going to cost you that much in the short term.  I fail to see how that proposal helps our cap space.  Basically you're only replacing Eriksson's cap space with a better player, but with more term and we are getting weaker in goals.  All that for a late first?

 

Then you still have decisions to make on Toffoli, Virtanen, Stetcher.  Not sure how you're fitting Killorn and Cernak also?

Ummm $8 million ($6+1+1) out and about $5.5-6 million back ($3.5 For Tierney and 2.5 for a veteran back up to replace Demko) not sure how the math eludes you.   That $2 million in cap savings looms large when trying to sign out UFAs.  Getting that while upgrading two positions is a good deal.

 

Tierney isn’t a $5 million dollar player... that is ridiculous.  He scored 11 goals and 37 points last year.  We are talking worries about Virtanen with a $3 million arbitration case and he scored a lot more goals.  Tierney is a 40ish point (give or take) 3C.... he would get a modest $500-600k raise and thank his stars that he is out of Ottawa.

 

Obviously if you trade for Cernak, you aren’t signing Tanev or Stecher unless they take a huge haircut.  You have your replacement top 4 RHD and one of our young guys is on the 3rd pairing.  Killorn is also a top 6 forward so you don’t need to sign Toffoli.  You still could, but that would require moving out two of Beagle, Sutter or Roussel (one of them if you knew Ferland was on LTIR for all of next season).
 

This all fits under the cap...

 

Miller-Petterson-Toffoli

Killorn-Horvat-Boeser

Pearson-Tierney-Leivo

Motte-Sutter-MacEwan

Ferland

 

Edler-Myers

Hughes-Cernak

Benn-Rafferty

XX

Markstrom

Veteran backup @ $2.5 million

 

That fits under the cap and gives one of the best top 9 forward groups in the league.  Our D is a wash in the short term, but upgraded in the long term with an improving Cernak instead of a declining Tanev.  Our goaltending is better with a proven top 5 Markstrom than an unproven Demko.  We give up some future upside with Demko, but no reason to believe we can’t get 5 years of solid goaltending to develop DiPietro or another young goalie... it is certainly a better bet than Demko right now who is an amazing prospect but entirely unproven.