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Do Canuck fans think Benning is a great GM?

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Do Canucks fans vote Benning is a great GM  

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Great is not a word I would use, at least not yet. If he wins us a cup or at least couple of president's trophies, then I would consider using the word "great" to describe JB.

 

I think we really need to evaluate JB's work over two separate time frames: 1) 2014-2017 and 2) 2017-2020.

 

The three seasons from 2014-15 to 2016-17, he was trying to serve the mandate from the ownership to compete for the playoffs and retool at the same time. The team didn't have much assets to trade (Sedins, Kesler, Edler, Tanev who else?). And frankly, he made some mistakes like signing Eriksson and trading away some draft picks. 2016 draft could have been better. Kesler trade, I think he did OK given the two team trade list. But he did some good. For example, 2014, 2015 drafts were good. And somewhat underrated but one thing that he did well during this time was to help Marky develop: sending him to the AHL in stealth mode and signing Ryan Miller to mentor him. I would grade his performance as C+ during this period.

 

I think by the end of 2016-2017 season, they (owners) knew that there was nothing left in the Sedins and that making the playoffs with the Sedins is impossible. The real rebuild began. He ended up drafting 1C in 2017 thanks to good scouting and 1D in 2018 mainly due to good scouting combined with (a lot of) luck. It helped to expedite the rebuild and so I would give JB some credit for the draft. He also made good trades like JT Miller and Pearson which helped us to make the playoffs. The work he has done led us to  winning a couple of rounds and there weren't any huge mistakes made so I'd give him B+/A- for his work in this period.

 

We are coming out of a rebuild with 2020 playoff run, entering a new stage. I like the moves he made to sign Holtby and trade for Schmidt as well as the moves that he didn't make (re-signing Marky, Tanev, Toffoli).  We'll see how things go from here.

 

 

 

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15 hours ago, khay said:

Great is not a word I would use, at least not yet. If he wins us a cup or at least couple of president's trophies, then I would consider using the word "great" to describe JB.

 

I think we really need to evaluate JB's work over two separate time frames: 1) 2014-2017 and 2) 2017-2020.

 

The three seasons from 2014-15 to 2016-17, he was trying to serve the mandate from the ownership to compete for the playoffs and retool at the same time. The team didn't have much assets to trade (Sedins, Kesler, Edler, Tanev who else?). And frankly, he made some mistakes like signing Eriksson and trading away some draft picks. 2016 draft could have been better. Kesler trade, I think he did OK given the two team trade list. But he did some good. For example, 2014, 2015 drafts were good. And somewhat underrated but one thing that he did well during this time was to help Marky develop: sending him to the AHL in stealth mode and signing Ryan Miller to mentor him. I would grade his performance as C+ during this period.

 

I think by the end of 2016-2017 season, they (owners) knew that there was nothing left in the Sedins and that making the playoffs with the Sedins is impossible. The real rebuild began. He ended up drafting 1C in 2017 thanks to good scouting and 1D in 2018 mainly due to good scouting combined with (a lot of) luck. It helped to expedite the rebuild and so I would give JB some credit for the draft. He also made good trades like JT Miller and Pearson which helped us to make the playoffs. The work he has done led us to  winning a couple of rounds and there weren't any huge mistakes made so I'd give him B+/A- for his work in this period.

 

We are coming out of a rebuild with 2020 playoff run, entering a new stage. I like the moves he made to sign Holtby and trade for Schmidt as well as the moves that he didn't make (re-signing Marky, Tanev, Toffoli).  We'll see how things go from here.

I don't buy the retool theory and never did. I believe he was rebuilding from the start but without intentionally tanking the team. Retooling is just swapping out NHL players. Moving out NHL players while bringing in NHL players in the belief they are an improvement. JB traded for too many AHL prospects and young players with limited NHL experience, Something Gillis didn't leave behind. Plus he rushed Virtanen and McCann in, Yes he wanted to compete for a playoff spot, but inserting a number of young developing players is a rebuilding move. Had those younger acquisitions worked out JB wouldn't have had to depend as much on the more expensive UFA  market down the road. And many of the UFA signings were guys that could help in the development of young guys as role models in how to prepare and how to play. I believe Sutter was acquired both in the belief he was an upgrade on Bonino and a solid role model for young guys. To me everything Benning has done reflects giving the team a chance to make the playoffs, as slim as it may be, while rebuilding at the same time.

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He's a good gm in my books.

 

Great at assessing talent in the draft and working with the org to develop our youth. (Petey, Hughes, Juolevi, Woo, DiPietro, Gaud, Podz, Hog, Lind, Lockwood).

 

Bad track record of signing UFA vets for too much term and money. (Erickson, Rousell, Beagle)

 

Improving at trades/signings, acquiring pieces to help this team take next steps (Miller, Boeser, Pearson, Myers, Holtby, Scmidt, Rafferty, Rathbone).

 

I think overall he is improving year after year in terms of his weaknesses and that is only going to help with the overall trajectory of this team.

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reality is he is somewhere in the 65-75 out of 100 range, so not great, but not bad by any means

I believe he has learned a lot and will be smarter in the future with things he has floundered on. This years draft doesn't make me think were missing out on brackett and its more of an organizational strength now, lead by benning.

Were at the point where its a next man up mentality instead of TRYING to buy success in free agency. this will be good for him.

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Some points to consider for the Jim Benning discussion:

 

- J.B. likes to have a plan. If you listen to his interviews prior to trade deadlines and free agency dates, you can anticipate pretty well what he intends to do. He has also set priorities as well as internal cap for future years. 

 

- This rebuild may have been much quicker than J.B. anticipated. This may be why he was willing to take on some contract for higher cap numbers and 1 to 2 years longer. He did not know how quickly Pettersson was going to develop/dominate and he did not know Quinn Hughes would drop to the Canucks in the draft. I think Jim Benning was anticipating a significantly longer rebuild with much more losing. Had he known about Pettersson and Hughes in advance, he may have done the same thing he did this offseason, which is to reserve cap space for the future. 

 

-J.B. is willing to go to his prospects if they are ready. He recognizes that once Pettersson and Hughes are paid, he has to continue to rely on talented prospects on ELC to keep the team moving. 

 

I had concerns and questions marks with regard to whether J.B. can:

 

(1) make tough decisions and let veteran players leave and accept a short term step back for the team;

(2) improve free agent signings and trades;

(3)  maintain a good result for future drafts; and

(4)  add significant pieces to D core to help out Hughes.

 

I am very satisfied with (1) since J.B. made some really tough and unpopular decisions during this off season. I am also cautiously optimistic with (4) as Schmidt is added to the D core and one of Rathbone, Rafferty, Juolevi may be able to become a core player for the Canucks D. If the team takes a step back this season, they can apply their 1st round draft pick for 2021 towards a D prospect. J.B.'s recent improvements with (2) are encouraging. He may not be a genius but he is competent with signings and trades. My biggest concern is with regard to (3). Drafting always involve luck. I am still waiting to see whether J.B. can produce good results for future draft years. 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Baggins said:

I don't buy the retool theory and never did. I believe he was rebuilding from the start but without intentionally tanking the team. Retooling is just swapping out NHL players. Moving out NHL players while bringing in NHL players in the belief they are an improvement. JB traded for too many AHL prospects and young players with limited NHL experience, Something Gillis didn't leave behind. Plus he rushed Virtanen and McCann in, Yes he wanted to compete for a playoff spot, but inserting a number of young developing players is a rebuilding move. Had those younger acquisitions worked out JB wouldn't have had to depend as much on the more expensive UFA  market down the road. And many of the UFA signings were guys that could help in the development of young guys as role models in how to prepare and how to play. I believe Sutter was acquired both in the belief he was an upgrade on Bonino and a solid role model for young guys. To me everything Benning has done reflects giving the team a chance to make the playoffs, as slim as it may be, while rebuilding at the same time.

I don't want to bring back that debate of rebuild vs retool but I'd like to think of rebuild to involve trading away some of your valuable assets knowing that your team's performance will suffer for the short term (i.e., tanking) for long term gain. For us, that would have meant trading the Sedins or Edler in 2014 or 2015. 

 

I think rebuild is a larger concept that includes tanking whereas retool doesn't. Retool to me is trying to stay competitive while turning the roster over/infusing youth in various positions. It is difficult to retool since being competitive means you are unlikely to draft in top 3 and get a young player that can be infused into the roster right away. If I understand correctly, your definition of retool is about bringing in new (supposedly better) NHL players. But that's something every team does, even cup contending teams "retool" every single offseason. Example: Tampa trading away Miller adding a whole lot of new pieces throughout the season like Schenn, Bogosian, Maroon, Coleman, Goodrow, etc.

 

Everyone has a different definition of retool vs rebuild and I can certainly respect your view of things.

 

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2 hours ago, khay said:

I don't want to bring back that debate of rebuild vs retool but I'd like to think of rebuild to involve trading away some of your valuable assets knowing that your team's performance will suffer for the short term (i.e., tanking) for long term gain. For us, that would have meant trading the Sedins or Edler in 2014 or 2015. 

 

I think rebuild is a larger concept that includes tanking whereas retool doesn't. Retool to me is trying to stay competitive while turning the roster over/infusing youth in various positions. It is difficult to retool since being competitive means you are unlikely to draft in top 3 and get a young player that can be infused into the roster right away. If I understand correctly, your definition of retool is about bringing in new (supposedly better) NHL players. But that's something every team does, even cup contending teams "retool" every single offseason. Example: Tampa trading away Miller adding a whole lot of new pieces throughout the season like Schenn, Bogosian, Maroon, Coleman, Goodrow, etc.

 

Everyone has a different definition of retool vs rebuild and I can certainly respect your view of things.

 

Some of us simply don't believe you need to intentionally tank to rebuild. We needed to replace virtually the entire team with only one player under 27 worth keeping and the rest on the decline. That's not a simple retool as retooling is just replacing a few parts rather than the whole in an attempt to improve. This is what mid level teams tend to do to imp[rove, Tampa wasn't retooling, as a contender there will always be pieces you can no longer afford, and In those situations they are trying to maintain. You don't load up the team with prospects, whether draftees or AHL'ers (with little to no NHL experience) to retool. Those are obvious rebuilding moves.

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Most expensive rebuild in NHL history?

 

I think so, or as close to as makes no difference. 
 

If that’s how you consistently pick top 5-7, then what’s the point of managing the roster in the first place? Mismanagement offers similar results re Coilers. 
 

I get that people will want to support the GM, but perhaps at least some of that support should go to the owner who spent to the cap, during a rebuild phase. Without that lunch money, where would JB be? 
 

Swap Francis and JB five/six years ago as GM. Francis did a lot on a budget. JB picked high at the cap. 
 

Aquaman deserves a lot more respect and understanding on here than he gets, IMO. Without him, ouch. 
 

 

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On 10/1/2020 at 6:53 PM, fanfor42 said:

Poll attached. Let's hear from everybody.

What happens in the next 2 years will define JB's time with Vancouver 

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If there was a choice

 

Rank these GM's

 

Pat Quinn

Mike Milbury

Sam Pollack

Scotty Bowman

Bill Torrey

Craig Patrick

Ken Holland

Lou Lamoriello

Jimmy Devellano

Harry Neale

Jim Benning

 

 

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1 hour ago, Lazurus said:

If there was a choice

 

Rank these GM's

 

Pat Quinn Non cap era

Mike Milbury  Non cap era

Sam Pollack  Non cap era O six

Scotty Bowman Non cap era

Bill Torrey Non cap era 

Craig Patrick Non cap era

Ken Holland 

Lou Lamoriello

Jimmy Devellano Non cap era 

Harry Neale Non cap era. 

Jim Benning

 

 

So out of the 3 GMs in the cap era Jim Benning is the best. Both Ken and Lou did their best work pre cap. 

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14 hours ago, spur1 said:

So out of the 3 GMs in the cap era Jim Benning is the best. Both Ken and Lou did their best work pre cap. 

Lou’s doing a  pretty good over at NYI right now, hiring Trotz of course one of his best moves...but yes his best work was for sure NJ...Ken couldn’t get Detroit far after their 20 year run finally died, but deserves some slack - the same way JB does, paid steep prices in picks to keep that team productive for a long time (as did MG both in clauses and picks/the ones he kept too ha ha).    Both Detroit and Vancouver headed into rebuild territory a year or so apart with Horvat and Larkin picks.    Now Yzerman is cleaning up the mess.   Not sure why Mad Mike is on the list..Milbury made some of the oddest moves ever. 
 

If success is measured in post season games like it should be JB got his first feather in his cap this year.   Four years past between post seasons, and only Horvat, Edler and Tanev we on the 2015 team.   We then missed four in a row, and the rebuild is almost wrapped up given the cap space soon to be available and who we have on the team, and still in the pool, that’s well within current acceptable ranges, more so with top teams with nothing to trade and no pool.   He’s done better then I expected. 

 

 

Wonder how fast OTT and the NYR will get back to it.   Some teams like EDM, CAR, CLB had almost a decade between  playoff appearances, and in all three cases are on their second or even third rebuilds over that time period.    EDM and CAR are both in their second and look to be in good shape to make the post season for long stretches now, especially CAR.     Personally I’ve stated several times, I’d actually welcome a down year and another lottery ticket.   As an aside there is rumblings GMs are going to tweak the first three overall slots - go figure ha ha.   It’s a win win in my books though, if we don’t make the post season then one more player for 2-3 years down the road could do wonders for us when Miller and Horvat are up, if we make the post season then I’m convinced he’s completed the rebuild already and we are on the way.   Because we will be using our D prospects this year - and with Covid and the ED and 1-2 more years of some experienced expensive placeholder contracts still on the books it just makes sense to go with what we have. 
 

What JB does next for sure will determine if he’s indeed a great GM or just average.   He’s moving from drafting and development as the priority, to trading and signings.   With that in mind I definitely can see why some could have trepidation.    Fortunately so far he’s done just fine with all his RFAs, including a ridiculous ask by BB’s agent on a long term deal which he fully intended to do.    And UFAs won’t be singing here at an extra premium anymore...or at least one can hope,  that started a year ago and should only get better. 

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My thoughts on JB:

Scouting A

Drafting A-

Signings C

Re-signings B-

Trade Deadline moves D+

Maybe someone should start a formal poll on all these categories to get a more specific opinion on his specific strengths & weaknesses.  (I'm not sure how to do that)

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