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Do Canuck fans think Benning is a great GM?

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Do Canucks fans vote Benning is a great GM  

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I am a Benning defender but even I wouldn't go as far as to say he's great. So I am not voting. He's done a good job. Some contracts I am not happy with. But his drafting has been pretty great on paper. Haven't seen too many late pick gems. Hell can't even think of too many 2nd rounders that rose to prominence. Outside of Demko. Gaudette is pretty good for a 5th rounder. Tryamkin dipped so that's kind of a loss unless he comes back. Otherwise all the worthwhile picks were just first rounders. So it's hard to say his drafting has been great overall. Great in the first round for sure though. Free agency and trading have been hit and miss. Some good trades, some bad. Nothing franchise sinking or franchise defining. Free agency is probably the only area I'd lean more towards bad than good.

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I think he's doing a fine job.  It's the NHL that is pathetic these days.  The entire concept of "game management" is just a thin veil and a con job on their essentially pro wrestling style approach to sports entertainment.  I mean really Texas versus Florida for the most coveted prize in ice hockey and nobody seems to smell a rat...  Go Canucks Go (despite the crooked NHL)!

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19 hours ago, NickTheGreek said:

He's absolutely awful. I cannot understand how any of you don't see this

 

His trades overall have been mediocre. "But but Miller!" OK, that obviously worked out, but I mean we still lost a 1st rounder. It's not like we fleeced Tampa. In fact, some would argue Tampa won that trade considering they shipped off a guy that wasn't contributing

 

His signings have been TERRIBLE. It's not even an argument. His signings might just be the worst in the entire league (Sutter, Beagle, Roussel, Myers, Loui, etc. etc)

 

The one and only area where you can say he's done a decent job is drafting. I'll give him Petey and I'll give him Boeser. I am not giving him Hughes as he fell into Benning's lap. I also look at the roster and see who is currently contributing at a high rate and I barely see Benning's draft picks make any kind of real difference aside from the 3 I mentioned here. I give his drafting a B overall

 

I'm sorry, but when you're mediocre at most facets of your job, you're not good at your job. Oh how I wish we had Yzerman

He's not perfect, but no GM is...he has made mistakes. But, you can at least credit him for the things he's done well. Overall, he's a good GM. Your post just reeks of ignorance and negativity! 

 

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On 10/2/2020 at 9:12 AM, BCNate said:

How on earth can you make this claim?  You have no idea what he would give up in a deal for OEL.  Let's not act like OEL doesn't instantly make a us a far better team.  He would slot in behind Hughes as the 2nd best D on our team.

8.25M for the 2nd best defenseman is NOT GOOD..

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On 10/1/2020 at 10:45 PM, NickTheGreek said:

He's absolutely awful. I cannot understand how any of you don't see this

 

His trades overall have been mediocre. "But but Miller!" OK, that obviously worked out, but I mean we still lost a 1st rounder. It's not like we fleeced Tampa. In fact, some would argue Tampa won that trade considering they shipped off a guy that wasn't contributing

 

His signings have been TERRIBLE. It's not even an argument. His signings might just be the worst in the entire league (Sutter, Beagle, Roussel, Myers, Loui, etc. etc)

 

The one and only area where you can say he's done a decent job is drafting. I'll give him Petey and I'll give him Boeser. I am not giving him Hughes as he fell into Benning's lap. I also look at the roster and see who is currently contributing at a high rate and I barely see Benning's draft picks make any kind of real difference aside from the 3 I mentioned here. I give his drafting a B overall

 

I'm sorry, but when you're mediocre at most facets of your job, you're not good at your job. Oh how I wish we had Yzerman

If you're trade expectation is fleecing other GM's in trades every GM is going to disappoint you. Fleecings are rare and only found in hindsight. Did the trade make sense and seem fair at the time is the question. Tampa had to wait up to two years for the first we gave up for Miller and was highly likely to be in the bottom half of the round. People seem to ignore Tampa having to wait for the primary piece in that trade. No GM wants to wait years for their primary return. And the Miller we saw in Tampa any GM would be happy to get with a mid first. Not a homerun but a fully solid double. You get a player capable of 40+ points, can play any forward position, and is absolutely solid on the defensive side you could even consider that a triple with a mid first. Tampa got extra in that deal because they had to wait for the first and the odds were high it would be into the bottom half, never mind middle, of the round. I honestly couldn't figure out why people freaked at the time. I thought it was a good deal and could be a steal if he clicked with either Petey or Bo.

 

Secondly would we have gotten where we did in the playoffs without Sutter, Beagle, Roussel and Myers? All are very good at their given roles. Also having some role models for the younger guys to learn from is a benefit. Eriksson is pure hindsight. Who would have predicted his production would fall off a cliff as it did? I believe he was brought in to help immediately and be a veteran producer to help the young guys after the Sedins retired. Lacking a crystal ball some things just don't work out.

 

I tend to look at why things were done at the time they were done. Was there logic to the move at that time? Hindsight is far easier and there isn't a GM around that doesn't get their share of facepalms in hindsight. Everything Benning has done has made sense to me. Some have panned out, some haven't. One of the factors I consider in the big picture is he came into the worst situation I've ever seen for a new GM. An aging team on the decline with only one player under 27 worth keeping (Tanev), a raft of NTC's, and an empty prospect pool. When you look at how long teams like TO and the Oilers have toiled with younger players and considerably more high picks I'd say Benning has done a very good job going from needing to replace an entire team to being a playoff team rather than wallowing for a decade as they did.

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1 hour ago, Baggins said:

If you're trade expectation is fleecing other GM's in trades every GM is going to disappoint you. Fleecings are rare and only found in hindsight. Did the trade make sense and seem fair at the time is the question. Tampa had to wait up to two years for the first we gave up for Miller and was highly likely to be in the bottom half of the round. People seem to ignore Tampa having to wait for the primary piece in that trade. No GM wants to wait years for their primary return. And the Miller we saw in Tampa any GM would be happy to get with a mid first. Not a homerun but a fully solid double. You get a player capable of 40+ points, can play any forward position, and is absolutely solid on the defensive side you could even consider that a triple with a mid first. Tampa got extra in that deal because they had to wait for the first and the odds were high it would be into the bottom half, never mind middle, of the round. I honestly couldn't figure out why people freaked at the time. I thought it was a good deal and could be a steal if he clicked with either Petey or Bo.

The immediate reward for Tampa was being able to sign Point, they already had all the pieces they needed and they simply traded away some depth. For them it was a home run that they even got a 1rst back, just about ALL other trades where a team had dump salary the pick went the other way, so a double home run.

I wonder how Miller felt about the trade? He signed a cap friendly deal for Tampa and then gets shipped across the country and loses over a million dollars.

 

1 hour ago, Baggins said:

Secondly would we have gotten where we did in the playoffs without Sutter, Beagle, Roussel and Myers? All are very good at their given roles. Also having some role models for the younger guys to learn from is a benefit. Eriksson is pure hindsight. Who would have predicted his production would fall off a cliff as it did? I believe he was brought in to help immediately and be a veteran producer to help the young guys after the Sedins retired. Lacking a crystal ball some things just don't work out

If not for the Covid stoppage they were not in a playoff spot or even moving up in the standings, they were going down fro 10th in January to 20th in March with the toughest part of the schedule coming up. So how much did Sutter, Beagle or Rousell make a difference?

Sure once the entire team was healthy they held a big advantage over both Minnesota and St Louis just in the fact they had well over 92 million in salary playing and they didn't have to go through a double quarantine.

Eriksson's production, without hindsight, could be seen in he only performed really well in contract years, his only 30 g season's and only with the best players on the team, he never carried the load for a line. There are plenty of posts in this regards at his signing, that and how bad the contract was in term and length, seems there were lots of observations that targeted everything exactly. Although Covid does change things now, his cap hit is gold.

1 hour ago, Baggins said:

I tend to look at why things were done at the time they were done. Was there logic to the move at that time? Hindsight is far easier and there isn't a GM around that doesn't get their share of facepalms in hindsight. Everything Benning has done has made sense to me. Some have panned out, some haven't. One of the factors I consider in the big picture is he came into the worst situation I've ever seen for a new GM. An aging team on the decline with only one player under 27 worth keeping (Tanev), a raft of NTC's, and an empty prospect pool. When you look at how long teams like TO and the Oilers have toiled with younger players and considerably more high picks I'd say Benning has done a very good job going from needing to replace an entire team to being a playoff team rather than wallowing for a decade as they did.

An issue there is what were the goals? Linden and Benning were saying they were going for the playoffs, they were not rebuilding and would not because it would be unfair to the Sedins, that is a quote btw.

But even they admitted later that they had not told the fans the truth and that Tortorella was right, later they used the same words to say the same thing to a fanfare. The fan change in attitude mirrored the cahnge in the way the media portrayed those words, same as now, media leads and fans follow.

In hindsight, bah, what kind of players could Benning traded for if he packaged 2 of the 2nd round picks together, in hindsight they could have got Miller for a second or third round pick, that is hindsight through rose colored glasses. The reality is he could have traded 2 2nds which would almost late 1rst's for a good prospect or possible to even move up.

Hindsight, they never would have drafted an injured Virtanen, shoulder injuries are very dicey, they would have drafted the rumored Larkin and they never would have drafted the "PP specialist at the back end that will run our PP", Juloevi, 4 other defencemen were available if defence had to drafted, of course there is always the Tkachuk thing.

So does there need to be hindsight or experience? Experience shows players that rocket up the draft standings are often superior to an incumbent, Heiser vs Patrick, Heiser came out of nowhere or even Pettersson.

Edmonton and TO have not had as many high draft positions per GM, I say that because some #34's were traded and there were multiple GM's each fired for failure but in Van, well we'll see, I think there has been a shift and delegation of power now. The team has a Faceman

 

Other than that what makes a great GM? Milbury?

 

Whatever hindsight teaches people to learn from the past, that is kind like how school works.

Edited by Lazurus
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11 hours ago, Lazurus said:

The immediate reward for Tampa was being able to sign Point, they already had all the pieces they needed and they simply traded away some depth. For them it was a home run that they even got a 1rst back, just about ALL other trades where a team had dump salary the pick went the other way, so a double home run.

I wonder how Miller felt about the trade? He signed a cap friendly deal for Tampa and then gets shipped across the country and loses over a million dollars.

Re-signing Point isn't a reward. It's a biproduct.

 

You're confusing a "salary dump", which is a player not worth his contract, with trading a player "with value" to clear cap space. One you pay to get rid of, the other is a player any team would like to have, and he could be traded to any team. The notion Miller should have been had at a bargain is ridiculously stupid. Why would any GM in need of a solid two way forward let Benning have him at a bargain? If I need that player I'll start low but make a decent offer to get him. I certainly wouldn't let another GM get him for peanuts.

 

11 hours ago, Lazurus said:

If not for the Covid stoppage they were not in a playoff spot or even moving up in the standings, they were going down fro 10th in January to 20th in March with the toughest part of the schedule coming up. So how much did Sutter, Beagle or Rousell make a difference?

Sure once the entire team was healthy they held a big advantage over both Minnesota and St Louis just in the fact they had well over 92 million in salary playing and they didn't have to go through a double quarantine.

 

I beg to differ...

 

Standings.thumb.png.11d45b9e17640945b746e9d7e32c2c21.png

 

11 hours ago, Lazurus said:

Eriksson's production, without hindsight, could be seen in he only performed really well in contract years, his only 30 g season's and only with the best players on the team, he never carried the load for a line. There are plenty of posts in this regards at his signing, that and how bad the contract was in term and length, seems there were lots of observations that targeted everything exactly. Although Covid does change things now, his cap hit is gold.

There are a lot of good players who don't carry the play. They're often the guys good around the net, guys who read their line mates and know where to be. They tend to be producers when playing with good players. Again, no one would have predicted Eriksson's production to fall off a cliff as it did. Seriously, from 30 plus to can't hit 15. Nobody would have predicted that.

 

11 hours ago, Lazurus said:

An issue there is what were the goals? Linden and Benning were saying they were going for the playoffs, they were not rebuilding and would not because it would be unfair to the Sedins, that is a quote btw.

They said they wanted to compete for a playoff spot while transitioning to a younger team. Transition to a younger team. They said it over, and over, and over ad nauseum. What did you think that meant? They were calling it a domestic engineer while you, and others, wanted to hear housewife.

 

11 hours ago, Lazurus said:

But even they admitted later that they had not told the fans the truth and that Tortorella was right, later they used the same words to say the same thing to a fanfare. The fan change in attitude mirrored the cahnge in the way the media portrayed those words, same as now, media leads and fans follow.

No idea what you're babbling about there. How about a link to an article. Some actual quotes.

 

11 hours ago, Lazurus said:

In hindsight, bah, what kind of players could Benning traded for if he packaged 2 of the 2nd round picks together, in hindsight they could have got Miller for a second or third round pick, that is hindsight through rose colored glasses. The reality is he could have traded 2 2nds which would almost late 1rst's for a good prospect or possible to even move up.

Hindsight, they never would have drafted an injured Virtanen, shoulder injuries are very dicey, they would have drafted the rumored Larkin and they never would have drafted the "PP specialist at the back end that will run our PP", Juloevi, 4 other defencemen were available if defence had to drafted, of course there is always the Tkachuk thing.

So does there need to be hindsight or experience? Experience shows players that rocket up the draft standings are often superior to an incumbent, Heiser vs Patrick, Heiser came out of nowhere or even Pettersson.

Edmonton and TO have not had as many high draft positions per GM, I say that because some #34's were traded and there were multiple GM's each fired for failure but in Van, well we'll see, I think there has been a shift and delegation of power now. The team has a Faceman

 

Other than that what makes a great GM? Milbury?

 

Whatever hindsight teaches people to learn from the past, that is kind like how school works.

A babbling rant? I have no idea.

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On 10/1/2020 at 8:30 PM, kingofsurrey said:

Jim the scout/drafter -  10 out of 10

Jim the UFA/Trader -  4-10 

 

So that converts to 70 % - so close to a.  solid C +

 

Decent but room to improve. 

Imagine trading a 20th overall pick for a 13 goal scorer :bigblush:

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On 10/1/2020 at 10:16 PM, bree2 said:

that is on Eriksson not Benning. 

I'm a Benning supporter and this makes zero sense.  Eriksson has fault in his deal but not all of it. 
 

Benning’s fault on that deal was the term Loui should have been offered 3-4 years max and passed on if 5+ was a sticking point.

 

While no one could have predicted he’d decline this rapidly 5+ year term and buyout proof deal was a disaster waiting to happen. 

Edited by canuck73_3
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25 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

I'm a Benning supporter and this makes zero sense.  Eriksson has fault in his deal but not all of it. 
 

Benning’s fault on that deal was the term Loui should have been offered 3-4 years max and passed on if 5+ was a sticking point.

 

While no one could have predicted he’d decline this rapidly 5+ year term and buyout proof deal was a disaster waiting to happen. 

the thing is, did anyone think that Eriksson would be such a flop, coming from Boston where he played well. sure maybe Benning should have given him less term, but Eriksson  has been holding this team hostage by saying he wants to play out his contract and he does have a right to, but pretty crappy of a player who did not hold up to his end knowing he should just retire! 

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As we are getting closer and closer to free agency I'm more curious what will happen if we ended up losing both markstrom toffoli and to a lesser extent Tanev. Do we even have a backup plan? If we lose all those players does that mean its all in for Pietreangelo or OEL or bust? Coz its not like the free agent market is filled with players that can fill those role nor can we expect rookies to step right in.

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13 minutes ago, bree2 said:

the thing is, did anyone think that Eriksson would be such a flop, coming from Boston where he played well. sure maybe Benning should have given him less term, but Eriksson  has been holding this team hostage by saying he wants to play out his contract and he does have a right to, but pretty crappy of a player who did not hold up to his end knowing he should just retire! 

No one is leaving $5mil on the table. Ridiculous to expect that.

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