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[Proposal] OEL + Ekblad


goblix
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Pie in the sky type of dream scenario here.

 

Trade 1 - Arizona and Vancouver

VAN Receives: Ekman-Larsson, Oliver ($1,250,000 retained)

ARI: Receives: Juolevi - Eriksson - Virtanen - 2021 1rst round pick

 

Trade 2 - Florida and Vancouver

VAN Receives: Aaron Ekblad

FLA Receives: Boeser - Stecher - Gaudette - 2022 1rst round pick

 

Trade 3 - Detroit and Vancouver

VAN Receives: Future Considerations (nothing)

DET Receives: Baertschi - 2021 3rd round pick

 

Trade 4 - Ottawa and Vancouver

VAN Receives: Future Considerations (nothing)

OTT Receives: Roussel  

 

The Arizona trade is pretty standard stuff on what we think the offer should and will look like. Maybe we can get away with something cheaper... maybe not...

 

The Florida trade may be a bit sketchy for a former 1rst overall big all around dman. Yet Dadonov and Hoffman leaving leaves a big whole on the RW side (even with Hornqvist) Boeser really seems like the starting point here which is unfortunate but there's no way around it. Stecher provides a young RHD with control that can eat away 15-20 minutes a night. Gaudette has upside to fill a center need. 2022 first round pick unconditional.

 

Detroit will be looking to stock up picks so if Marc Staal was worth a 2nd rounder then Baertschi surely is worth a 3rd at the most.

 

Ottawa has lost some veteran leadership and Roussel has less money owed than cap hit, we may need to add a pick here.

 

The layout of the team is below here. Gives us a top 3 defense corps that we'd never seen before which would hopefully carry the forward groups to bigger and better things even though its downgraded with the loss of Boeser and to a lesser extent Virtanen / Gaudette.

 

CapFriendly.com Armchair-GM User-Generated Roster

FORWARDS (13)
Right wing: Tyler Toffoli ($5,250,000) - Josh Leivo ($1,750,000) - Wayne Simmonds ($1,500,000) - Zack MacEwen ($925,000)
Centre: Elias Pettersson ($925,000) - Bo Horvat ($5,500,000) - Brandon Sutter ($4,375,000) - Jay Beagle ($3,000,000)
Left wing: J.T. Miller ($5,250,000) - Tanner Pearson ($3,750,000) - Nils Höglander ($891,667) - Tyler Motte ($1,500,000) - Micheal Ferland ($3,500,000)

DEFENSE (7)
Right: Aaron Ekblad ($7,500,000) - Tyler Myers ($6,000,000) - Brogan Rafferty ($700,000)
Left: Quinn Hughes ($916,667) - Oliver Ekman-Larsson ($7,000,000) - Alexander Edler ($6,000,000) - Jordie Benn ($2,000,000)

GOALTENDER (2)
Jacob Markström ($5,500,000) - Thatcher Demko ($1,050,000)

BUYOUTS (1)
Ryan Spooner ($1,033,333)

DETAILS
Roster Size: 22
Salary Cap: $81,500,000
Bonus Overages: $1,700,000
Cap Hit: $80,551,879
Cap Space: $948,121

 

The above is including Ferland on our team which if he goes to LTIR would give us some flexibility throughout the season with Sutter, Pearson, Edler and Benn coming off the books next year I believe this gives us flexibility to sign Hughes and Pettersson to long term deals that fits under the cap structure. Podkolzin and maybe Rathbone or Edler resigning at a low cap next year perhaps that gives us the ELC flexibility to fit all of this in.

 

I know losing a ton of these firsts is not the best 3 but considering that this shores up the defense crew for the next 5 years (at the least) this gives us the time to recoup the picks.

 

Well let me know if you think the Florida trade is feasible or not. When dealing with top-end and highly touted players like Ekblad it's really hard to determine if anything is fair or feasible...

Or just let me know if there is anything that we might be able to shift around to make the cap more manageable or the bottom 6 crew better

 

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1 minute ago, DarkIndianRises said:

Dislike.  
 

Robbing Peter to pay Paul.

 

We’d have an elite defense with a bunch of donkeys for wingers sans Toffoli and Miller.

 

Hard pass.

 

I’s be interested your Boeser idea by itself, but I think that’s a bit of an overpayment.  You might be right though.

I agree on the notion that we are robbing the forward group's depth to show the defensive core but that said a great defensive core can lead to immensely more forward viability after all the puck needs to move from the defense in the first place. Hoglander and Podkolzin potentially coming up the ranks it may just be a problem for this year only.

 

I personally put a high value on a defense that can hang with the best of them around the league. A group like would easily be the best group the Canucks have ever had in the back end and with Markstrom + Demko in net we have insane insurance to be contenders. The fact that the top 3 guys would be in control for the next 5+ years gives us the time to recoup any kind of deficit in terms of prospects, picks and depth players.

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6 minutes ago, goblix said:

I agree on the notion that we are robbing the forward group's depth to show the defensive core but that said a great defensive core can lead to immensely more forward viability after all the puck needs to move from the defense in the first place. Hoglander and Podkolzin potentially coming up the ranks it may just be a problem for this year only.

 

I personally put a high value on a defense that can hang with the best of them around the league. A group like would easily be the best group the Canucks have ever had in the back end and with Markstrom + Demko in net we have insane insurance to be contenders. The fact that the top 3 guys would be in control for the next 5+ years gives us the time to recoup any kind of deficit in terms of prospects, picks and depth players.

Fair enough but I’d also feel horrifically uncomfortable going so many years without a 1st round pick.   You’re dancing with the devil when you do that.  

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I am so hopeful that Benning will recognize that this is not the time to go for it. 

 

You have terrible contracts to get rid of, a team that punched above its weightclass this year, and players that are not yet in their prime.

 

Give it a couple years, get bad contracts off the books, wait until your young guys are in their prime, and then go for the massive trades that give you 3-4 years to win a cup. Trying to expedite the process is a bad idea. 

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It would be an amazing pipe dream to score both OEL and Ekblad.  We need two top 4 D and that would do it for us.

Costing us a winger is also not a bad play... as has been mentioned, good puck moving defence make every forward better automatically.

Where this falls down for me is that  it leaves us in a jam as far as extending Hughes and Petterson the next year.  There isn't $14-18 million coming off the cap in expiring deals to fit them under that roster the next season and still being able to fill out the rest of the roster.

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11 minutes ago, Down by the River said:

I am so hopeful that Benning will recognize that this is not the time to go for it. 

 

You have terrible contracts to get rid of, a team that punched above its weightclass this year, and players that are not yet in their prime.

 

Give it a couple years, get bad contracts off the books, wait until your young guys are in their prime, and then go for the massive trades that give you 3-4 years to win a cup. Trying to expedite the process is a bad idea. 

By your reasoning if the 3-4 years from now is your goal then Ekblad and OEL in 3-4 years will still be on this team and will be contributors to the lineup. Having this mentality of status quo is a trap that keeps you in the mid tier of the league and never pushes you to a position of being truly elite.

 

Besides if you think about it, Pettersson and Hughes are going to get paid so if you want to hit the Tampa Bay levels of insanity then you need to have the ELC contracts being high-end contributors to the lineup alongside the elite talent we have now... Thus the hope would be Podkolzin / Hoglander / Rathbone would be high-end contributors in the coming years and to a lesser extent hopefully Lind / Woo / Lockwood and etc would be depth contributors.

 

5 minutes ago, Provost said:

It would be an amazing pipe dream to score both OEL and Ekblad.  We need two top 4 D and that would do it for us.

Costing us a winger is also not a bad play... as has been mentioned, good puck moving defence make every forward better automatically.

Where this falls down for me is that  it leaves us in a jam as far as extending Hughes and Petterson the next year.  There isn't $14-18 million coming off the cap in expiring deals to fit them under that roster the next season and still being able to fill out the rest of the roster.

I feel ya there. Looking at the outlook we would have 12 contracts and 26.6m of cap space free. If we think that Pettersson and Hughes are going to cost 10 and 9 respectively then that would leave just 7m for 8 more contracts. even at the min ELC that wouldn't fit in the cap structure. That said that's next years problem and we're going to lose someone to the expansion draft so maybe we can make a deal to have Seattle take Myers and the 6m tag along with it... or maybe they just take him anyways lol.

 

Can't forget about Ferland too, if he can't play next year then we'd have to think he's gotta retire or at least be on LTIR so that 3.5m could go a long way to filling out depth for us...

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Seems like a lot to give up for 2 players, I don't really see Canucks wanting to trade another first round pick so soon, let alone the next two. I really wouldn't mind giving Juolevi one more year. I know he only played one game at the NHL level but I thought he looked good. Has decent numbers in AHL. He's only 22. Maybe i'm being too hopeful but I have a good feeling about the kid. We've got to where we are right now, mostly from building with in and I hope we kind of stick to that path. Maybe another move like how we got Toffoli but nothing too big. 

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While it would be awesome to have likely the most elite defense in the NHL, I don’t think I can get behind most of this. Baertschi trade I’m fine with. Roussel I feel like has some value in a trade... But the two big trades, giving up 3 straight years of firsts. I could get on board with the OEL deal. The Ekblad deal is a bit much imo. But no way I’d do both trades. Too many assets lost and too little return. Where does all our scoring come from? 

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20 minutes ago, Justdean10 said:

Seems like a lot to give up for 2 players, I don't really see Canucks wanting to trade another first round pick so soon, let alone the next two. I really wouldn't mind giving Juolevi one more year. I know he only played one game at the NHL level but I thought he looked good. Has decent numbers in AHL. He's only 22. Maybe i'm being too hopeful but I have a good feeling about the kid. We've got to where we are right now, mostly from building with in and I hope we kind of stick to that path. Maybe another move like how we got Toffoli but nothing too big. 

OEL and Ekblad are both pretty top-tier dmen whom are young or at least capable top 4 or better defensemen for the next 4-5 years at the least..  Juolevi I think he's given a hard ride and honestly speaking between him and Rathbone there's an argument that Juolevi is better suited to slide into the lineup sooner and contribute. Rathbone has the higher upside but is all boom or bust.

 

13 minutes ago, CanuckFan1123 said:

While it would be awesome to have likely the most elite defense in the NHL, I don’t think I can get behind most of this. Baertschi trade I’m fine with. Roussel I feel like has some value in a trade... But the two big trades, giving up 3 straight years of firsts. I could get on board with the OEL deal. The Ekblad deal is a bit much imo. But no way I’d do both trades. Too many assets lost and too little return. Where does all our scoring come from? 

Yeah I am apprehensive of trading 2 firsts as well but teams use firsts so you can get young top tier defensemen sooo I am less apprehensive in doing it for Ekblad. Maybe we can swing the deal for OEL for a 2nd instead but I'm doubtful on that.

As for the scoring... I mean we still have the same 5 forwards that have shown consistency in their contribution but more so you are adding 2 dmen who have shown the ability to score from the blue line and that drives play offensively and adds scoring throughout the lineup.

 

It's less than ideal but if you have a d-core like that signed for 5+ years and hoglander and podkolzin coming up the next couple years then you have the time to replenish the system. At least that's my reasoning..

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If you get OEL, then there is no need to get Ekblad and trade Boeser during his lower cap years when Vancouver’s defense will be so much better just by adding OEL and how you can show Rathbone and Woo this is how a professional play’s defense. Ekblad is just not worth more then having both Boeser and Gaudette specially after trading Madden and no other future centres ready to play in the NHL.

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So you want to trade Boeser, Virtanen, Gaudette, Juolevi, AND TWO first round picks for OEL and Ekblad?  

 

Why not just go hard after Pietrangelo and sign him for free and keep ALL your assets?  There are probably only 2 teams that can really afford Pietrangelo without destroying their cap, NY Rangers and Colorado.  The Rangers would probably want to trade Deangelo in order to add Pietrangelo while Colorado would want to trade Zadorov to make the numbers work.  

 

If we can land Pietrangelo at $8.5m for 7 years I’d pick him up at the airport myself.  Will there be a team that would be willing to pay him more?  I guess we will find out next week. 

 

 

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19 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

So you want to trade Boeser, Virtanen, Gaudette, Juolevi, AND TWO first round picks for OEL and Ekblad?  

 

Why not just go hard after Pietrangelo and sign him for free and keep ALL your assets?  There are probably only 2 teams that can really afford Pietrangelo without destroying their cap, NY Rangers and Colorado.  The Rangers would probably want to trade Deangelo in order to add Pietrangelo while Colorado would want to trade Zadorov to make the numbers work.  

 

If we can land Pietrangelo at $8.5m for 7 years I’d pick him up at the airport myself.  Will there be a team that would be willing to pay him more?  I guess we will find out next week. 

 

 

Because we would have to give up assets to clear the space needed, either through other trades or letting RFA/UFA players walk into free agency. 
 

If OEL can be got for A lower price it’s worth it. It’s going to take at least a 1st to move LE (if you want to move him) and probably a good prospect as well. We would probably not sign a few additional players as well, whereas for OEL if the price is right we could not only get the cap dump done but actually get back a good player. 

Also Piet is older than OEL and people already baulk at that 8.5 in his later years (which is actually trade and/or buyout friendly at that point) whereas for Piet even if he did land at that price (highly unlikely) the noise is he want it back loaded and bonus filled which means if he decline we have potentially more years declining and also will struggle to move/buyout the contract.

 

id Piet a better D man than OEL - yes I think there will be very few who disagree. Does his full a RHD need for us as opposed to another LHD - yes, but I think the cost to acquire him will be far higher than OEL even if he is a free agent  

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8 hours ago, UKNuck96 said:

Because we would have to give up assets to clear the space needed, either through other trades or letting RFA/UFA players walk into free agency. 
 

If OEL can be got for A lower price it’s worth it. It’s going to take at least a 1st to move LE (if you want to move him) and probably a good prospect as well. We would probably not sign a few additional players as well, whereas for OEL if the price is right we could not only get the cap dump done but actually get back a good player. 

Also Piet is older than OEL and people already baulk at that 8.5 in his later years (which is actually trade and/or buyout friendly at that point) whereas for Piet even if he did land at that price (highly unlikely) the noise is he want it back loaded and bonus filled which means if he decline we have potentially more years declining and also will struggle to move/buyout the contract.

 

id Piet a better D man than OEL - yes I think there will be very few who disagree. Does his full a RHD need for us as opposed to another LHD - yes, but I think the cost to acquire him will be far higher than OEL even if he is a free agent  

We wouldn't need to dump Boeser if we sign Pietrangelo, the numbers would work to have them both.  Same with someone like Gaudette who will sign a cheap qualifying offer.  If we sign Pietrangelo then Markstrom and Tanev are gone so that money is simply being used to sign Pietrangelo, we don't really need to trade RFA's as cap dumps.  It looks like we are not going to re-sign Marky and Tanev anyways so we will need to acquire a 1B for Demko and another right handed Dman to replace Tanev.  So OEL makes no sense as he is not a Tanev replacement.  Ekblad is a pipe dream, Florida does not need to trade him so why give up the farm to get him?

 

In terms of Pietrangelo versus OEL, Pietrangelo is a much bigger defenceman and looks like he can play at a high level for several more years.  OEL is already showing signs of decline at 29.  Pietrangelo reminds me of Edler, who is still going strong at 34.  OEL may be done at 34 and then we have to worry about the last 3 years of his massive contract.  Pietrangelo could play well into his mid 30's at a high level.  The only question with Pietrangelo is the amount of his contract.  Like I said only two teams really have the cap space to sign him so I'm not sure he's going to get the $9.5-$10 million that he wants.  I think he might end up signing for far less, maybe as low as $8.5 million.  We will see this week. 

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2 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

We wouldn't need to dump Boeser if we sign Pietrangelo, the numbers would work to have them both.  Same with someone like Gaudette who will sign a cheap qualifying offer.  If we sign Pietrangelo then Markstrom and Tanev are gone so that money is simply being used to sign Pietrangelo, we don't really need to trade RFA's as cap dumps.  It looks like we are not going to re-sign Marky and Tanev anyways so we will need to acquire a 1B for Demko and another right handed Dman to replace Tanev.  So OEL makes no sense as he is not a Tanev replacement.  Ekblad is a pipe dream, Florida does not need to trade him so why give up the farm to get him?

 

In terms of Pietrangelo versus OEL, Pietrangelo is a much bigger defenceman and looks like he can play at a high level for several more years.  OEL is already showing signs of decline at 29.  Pietrangelo reminds me of Edler, who is still going strong at 34.  OEL may be done at 34 and then we have to worry about the last 3 years of his massive contract.  Pietrangelo could play well into his mid 30's at a high level.  The only question with Pietrangelo is the amount of his contract.  Like I said only two teams really have the cap space to sign him so I'm not sure he's going to get the $9.5-$10 million that he wants.  I think he might end up signing for far less, maybe as low as $8.5 million.  We will see this week. 

Agree with your comment about Ekblad.

 

I would love to sign Pietrangelo. But it would rely on us only signing one of Toffoli, Tanev and Markstrom (as you said). We would also need to move out these contracts: Eriksson, Sutter plus one of Roussel/Baer/Pearson. They all need to be moved without retention (or don't sign one of TT/CT/JM). I don't know if that is possible in the current market, maybe something like these sweeteners would do it:

 

Sutter + Virtanen

Roussel + Stecher

Eriksson + 2021 1st round pick

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4 minutes ago, The Lock said:

I don't see why Arizona does this. Remember that they don't HAVE to trade him. OEL just gave them 2 teams he's willing to go to, asked for a trade, but is still apparently willing to suit up if it doesn't happen.

Because they asked OEL to waive to be traded, not the other way around. They are looking to shed real term $

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3 minutes ago, UKNuck96 said:

be interesting to hear that source as its the opposite of pretty much everything out there

Someone in the trades thread had a source for it I think. To be fair, I haven't heard anyone say your side either. If you're able to provide a decent source I'm willing to listen and evaluate.

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