[Report] Virtanen Qualified

[mll]

3 hours ago, Comeback_Kings said:

What if the Arbitration takes into account the new economic realities of the league and there are new contracts signed as comparables in the current climate in advance of his hearing?  

 

Teams can't argue salary cap, drop in revenue or cap space per the CBA - see article below.  There can't be no reference to the economic climate but players can use contracts that were for the most part* signed before the pandemic as comparable.  It's in part why teams are even more weary about arbitration this year - the award could be disproportionate to the new economic reality.  (*) McCann and Fabbri were recently extended for 2 years at about 3M.   

 

Even before the pandemic GMs wanted to adjust the arbitration process but they didn't have time to address it with the NHLPA when updating the CBA this summer.  The feeling is that it has become too player friendly, where often the player can get more through arbitration than had he been a UFA.  The NHLPA apparently does a good job in preparing the player side and finding comparable cases that can be used to maximise the award. 

 

CBA Art. 12.9 (g):

(iii) The following categories of evidence are inadmissible and shall not be considered by the Salary Arbitrator:

• (A)  Any SPC the term of which began when the Player party to such SPC was not a Group 2 Player;
• (B)  Any SPC entered into by an Unrestricted Free Agent, including SPCs signed by Players after the Player's Club has exercised a walk-away right pursuant to Section 12.10;
• (C)  The SPC of any Player who is not being offered as a comparable Player to the party Player;

• (D)  Qualifying Offers made by the Club pursuant to Section 10.2(b);

• (E)  Any prior offers or history of negotiations between the Player and the Club;

• (F)  Testimonials, videotapes, newspaper columns, press game reports or similar materials;

• (G)  Any reference to actual or potential walk-away rights;

• (H)  Any award issued by a Salary Arbitrator as to which a Club exercised its walk-away rights pursuant to Section 12.10;

• (I)  The financial condition of the Club or the League;

• (J)  References to a Club's Upper or Lower Limit, or to the Players' Share

[kloubek]

35 minutes ago, Moose Nuckle said:

Perhaps him consistently improving year over year shows that he will consistently improve year over year. 

 

Wild idea, I know. 

So smug.

 

So his 3 points in 16 playoff games is good for you then. The fact that despite his speed and size, he was virtually invisible and a non-factor in the playoffs and that's just fine, because he is "consistently improving". Gotcha. And with improvement, maybe he will get a whopping 4 points next playoffs, which would be just fine for you, I imagine. Not to mention all the off-ice BS. It's all good, right? He's improving.

 

I'm afraid I don't share your acceptance of mediocrity. I prefer our players to play with heart and passion, and to make a difference to help us win a cup.

[Noseforthenet]

I expect team elected salary arbitration, if he isn't moved.

[Comeback_Kings]

said it before, imo virtanen > _________

 

 

[apollo]

9 hours ago, Millerdraft said:

Can you imagine the vitriol on here if he wasn’t tendered a QO and Benning allowed him to go UFA?!

 

The optics...

I wonder how oilers fans feel right now... They just did that with athanasiou after tossing 2 2nd rounders just months ago for him... 

 

No clue how Holland didn't qualify him... Hope the Canucks make an offer to him. 1 year 2.5 3 mill np

[J-P]

1 hour ago, grandmaster said:

It’ll be interesting to see if Jake signs and gets traded or if he is signed to stay.
 

He is a good piece to throw in on a Cap dump or to acquire a big name like OEL.
 

Question also remains that if we lose TT, we might need Jake to stay. He weakens our top 6 but we might have no choice. I don’t think Hogs is able to contractually join us at the beginning of next season. There are no other good prospects that are ready (Podkolzin is stuck in Russia for another year). 

Hogs has an out clause from SHL (he's actually on loan IIRC) and will join camp and can be on the roster next season. Whether he's ready and if NHL is the best path for him short term I don't know.

[J-P]

Jake still has lot of potential but apart from his lackluster camps and preparation two things worry me:

 

1) In the playoffs he had a hard time keeping up. I think the effort was there but he just didn't process the game quickly enough and also showed lack of skill when the pace picked up and space was tighter. Some players just don't have the next level in them. Not comparing Jake to Pouliot as he's already achieved a lot more during regular season, but DP is an example of a player who had all the tools and vision but just couldn't raise his game to the next level. If Jake has that limitation and can't be a reliable energy 3rd liner, then it's time to move on. Hopefully GMJB and Green has more insight to this than I do. 

 

2) Jake has been around the Sedins, Bo, Petey etc for years. How many role models do you really need to get it? Does he have it in him to do what it takes?

[mll]

2 hours ago, Noseforthenet said:

I expect team elected salary arbitration, if he isn't moved.

The deadline for a team elected arbitration was the 4th of October.  No team filed for arbitration.  Virtanen's salary was also under the eligibility threshold - only Stecher could have been taken to arbitration by the Canucks.   The minimum salary is 2.27M.  

 

The deadline for Virtanen and other qualified players to file is the 10th of October.

 

Edited October 7, 2020 by mll

[D-Money]

3 hours ago, apollo said:

I wonder how oilers fans feel right now... They just did that with athanasiou after tossing 2 2nd rounders just months ago for him... 

 

No clue how Holland didn't qualify him... Hope the Canucks make an offer to him. 1 year 2.5 3 mill np

Same reason we aren’t re-signing Toffoli after giving up (arguably) more: COVID changed everything.

 

Athanasiou has arbitration rights, and if he came in just over $4M the team could not walk away or trade him. (And with his 54 points in the previous season, he’d probably be up there.)  Oilers probably feel they will find better value for their remaining salary dollars in free agency, and they’re likely right. He didn’t for as well as they hoped, with only 2 points in 13 games (including playoffs).

[Seinfeld]

Can’t hate Virtanen. He’s living every BC kids dream of playing for their home town team. So what he likes to have a good time. I would be doing the same thing. Rooting for him to improve again this coming season. 

[Moose Nuckle]

9 hours ago, kloubek said:

So smug.

 

So his 3 points in 16 playoff games is good for you then. The fact that despite his speed and size, he was virtually invisible and a non-factor in the playoffs and that's just fine, because he is "consistently improving". Gotcha. And with improvement, maybe he will get a whopping 4 points next playoffs, which would be just fine for you, I imagine. Not to mention all the off-ice BS. It's all good, right? He's improving.

 

I'm afraid I don't share your acceptance of mediocrity. I prefer our players to play with heart and passion, and to make a difference to help us win a cup.

Gaudette scored zero in the playoffs. I guess we should trade him for a bag of pucks. 

 

Virt scored 2 of the most important goals bud. Let's dissect those shall we? The top line was unable to get anything done, the lines were shuffled but to no avail, they couldn't get control of the puck in the opposing end. Virt gets put out for ONE shift with the top line and they score.

 

Most would be happy and excited, not you though. I bet it made you so angry that he did something good because all you want is to hate.

 

Heart and passion, how about Hart bashing? Or did you forget about when he fought Hartman to defend our best player? Yes, yes you did.

 

If a players point totals increase year over year by a good margin, most call that progression. Not you though. Must be fun constantly spewing hatred.

 

Blind bias and hatred is stinking up your locker.

Edited October 7, 2020 by Moose Nuckle

[aGENT]

6 minutes ago, Moose Nuckle said:

Gaudette scored zero in the playoffs. I guess we should trade him for a bag of pucks. 

 

Virt scored 2 of the most important goals bud. 

 

Blind bias and hatred is stinking up your locker.

IMO, he should be converted to wing and/or I'd have zero issues moving him to improve the team elsewhere.

[JM_]

7 hours ago, mll said:

The deadline for a team elected arbitration was the 4th of October.  No team filed for arbitration.  Virtanen's salary was also under the eligibility threshold - only Stecher could have been taken to arbitration by the Canucks.   The minimum salary is 2.27M.  

 

The deadline for Virtanen and other qualified players to file is the 10th of October.

 

we should know very soon if this is going to be our problem... about 20 minutes to the start of draft Day 2

[apollo]

5 hours ago, D-Money said:

Same reason we aren’t re-signing Toffoli after giving up (arguably) more: COVID changed everything.

 

Athanasiou has arbitration rights, and if he came in just over $4M the team could not walk away or trade him. (And with his 54 points in the previous season, he’d probably be up there.)  Oilers probably feel they will find better value for their remaining salary dollars in free agency, and they’re likely right. He didn’t for as well as they hoped, with only 2 points in 13 games (including playoffs).

Ahhh I see. I didnt realize the bit about arb rights. I figured they rejected 1 x 3 AAV.

 

Toff is gonna be demanding at least a couple mill more than Andreas at this point in his career though... will be interesting to see what deals they both get.

 

I just feel like AA might be better value considering he was let go by the coilers of all teams. Kid was lighting it up on a terrible Detroit team. Has really explosive speed.

 

So what I'm saying is I hope Uncle Jim goes after him

[Pickly]

1 hour ago, Moose Nuckle said:

Gaudette scored zero in the playoffs. I guess we should trade him for a bag of pucks. 

 

Virt scored 2 of the most important goals bud. Let's dissect those shall we? The top line was unable to get anything done, the lines were shuffled but to no avail, they couldn't get control of the puck in the opposing end. Virt gets put out for ONE shift with the top line and they score.

 

Most would be happy and excited, not you though. I bet it made you so angry that he did something good because all you want is to hate.

 

Heart and passion, how about Hart bashing? Or did you forget about when he fought Hartman to defend our best player? Yes, yes you did.

 

If a players point totals increase year over year by a good margin, most call that progression. Not you though. Must be fun constantly spewing hatred.

 

Blind bias and hatred is stinking up your locker.

LOL I really hope you are kidding when you lump Virtanen in with heart and passion. Guy makes Kyle Wellwood look like Rod Brinda’mour when it comes to taking fitness and staying in game shape seriously. Guys been given every chance under the sun to succeed and was physically outplayed by Tyler Motte all playoffs. 

[Moose Nuckle]

3 minutes ago, Pickly said:

LOL I really hope you are kidding when you lump Virtanen in with heart and passion. Guy makes Kyle Wellwood look like Rod Brinda’mour when it comes to taking fitness and staying in game shape seriously. Guys been given every chance under the sun to succeed and was physically outplayed by Tyler Motte all playoffs. 

He defends our players, not many others do.

[Spoosh]

I’m happy to have Jake on the 3rd line and move up and down when needed. 
 

Sorry. Please, don’t let me get in the way of you crying about everything.

[kloubek]

1 hour ago, Moose Nuckle said:

Blind bias and hatred is stinking up your locker.

Oh good lord. You just keep going don't you? Like your opinion MUST be shared by all or risk belittlement. That must be a difficult life to lead if you act this way in real life. You are hardly worth my time, but I will make one last go of it here.

 

It is clear to see the difference in commitment between Gaudette and Virtanen. It's bloody night and day both on and off the ice.  "Most would be excited". Actually, you are in the minority of those excited by this point. In fact, "most" agree that Jake does not give his all. Hence, the widespread frustration with him across CDC.

 

This is not "blind bias". I have been rooting for Jake since he was drafted, and wishing the best for him. He has all the tools to be an effective player. He simply... isn't. Yes he is improving, but that's in spite of his commitment - not because of it. He will never be the player he can be until he turns that corner and decides to give it his all. He could be an invaluable part of the third line and perhaps even a mainstay on the 2nd. Instead, he is a spare part.

 

And as a side note, how do you think his team views him when he isn't committed? How did they feel when he risked playing in the playoffs to go clubbing? Do you think his attitude helps or hinders how close knit the team is? If you've ever played professional sport (or even if you have common sense) the answer to that question is clear.

 

If there is any "blind bias" in  this debate, it's certainly not coming from my side. 

[Moose Nuckle]

4 minutes ago, kloubek said:

Oh good lord. You just keep going don't you? Like your opinion MUST be shared by all or risk belittlement. That must be a difficult life to lead if you act this way in real life. You are hardly worth my time, but I will make one last go of it here.

 

It is clear to see the difference in commitment between Gaudette and Virtanen. It's bloody night and day both on and off the ice.  "Most would be excited". Actually, you are in the minority of those excited by this point. In fact, "most" agree that Jake does not give his all. Hence, the widespread frustration with him across CDC.

 

This is not "blind bias". I have been rooting for Jake since he was drafted, and wishing the best for him. He has all the tools to be an effective player. He simply... isn't. Yes he is improving, but that's in spite of his commitment - not because of it. He will never be the player he can be until he turns that corner and decides to give it his all. He could be an invaluable part of the third line and perhaps even a mainstay on the 2nd. Instead, he is a spare part.

 

And as a side note, how do you think his team views him when he isn't committed? How did they feel when he risked playing in the playoffs to go clubbing? Do you think his attitude helps or hinders how close knit the team is? If you've ever played professional sport (or even if you have common sense) the answer to that question is clear.

 

If there is any "blind bias" in  this debate, it's certainly not coming from my side. 

I didn't bother reading your bias propaganda. 

[bree2]

52 minutes ago, Moose Nuckle said:

He defends our players, not many others do.

from what i have seen on Jake defending our players, is not much, what i have seen is he throws out a hit the rushes off the ice.