[Waivers] Tyler Johnson

[rekker]

38 minutes ago, Gaudette Celly said:

Yeah but JB's shown he doesn't operate that way.  Like with Miller, he goes straight up with teams when trying to acquire via usual means, rather than sneak around and force others' hands.

Fair enough. Hope it gets done, either way. 

[flickyoursedin]

42 minutes ago, Provost said:

We can take him if they give us Cernak along with it.

 

We send them a 2nd and Gaudette.  Seems pretty fair to me since there is no way they can afford all three of their RFAs.  This clears cap space and gives them more than the offer sheet compensation.

 

Miller-Petterson-Hughes

Pearson-Horvat-Johnson

Roussel-Sutter-Leivo 

Motte-Beagle-MacEwan

Ferland

 

Hughes-Cernak

Edler-Rafferty

Juolevi-Benn

Rathbone

 

That would be about the best possible lineup you could make out of this dogs breakfast at the moment.  We have to bury Eriksson and move on from Virtanen if we can.  Johnson is just a stopgap as he is a hometown Seattle guy and we expose him and backfill with Podkolzin the next year.

I’d rather be the Vancouver Lightening than the Calgary Canucks!

[Provost]

30 minutes ago, Millerdraft said:

What does Benning (or his replacement) do if/when Seattle skips on taking him on?

Ummm... we keep him?  He can play centre or wing and can fit into any number of holes in our lineup.  He isn’t on an astronomical deal at all and is a good player who can kill penalties as well as produce offence.

 

... we also have a great young top 4D in the bargain.

We can leave both Johnson and Myers exposed and Seattle can take their pick. Johnson is a Stanley Cup winner from Seattle, he would be a pretty obvious choice for Captain and the guy that talks to media in a new market to connect with fans.

Edited October 10, 2020 by Provost

[DrJockitch]

20 minutes ago, Provost said:

Ummm... we keep him?  He can play centre or wing and can fit into any number of holes in our lineup.  He isn’t on an astrological deal at all and is a good player who can kill penalties as well as produce offence.

 

... we also have a great young top 4D in the bargain.

We can leave both Johnson and Myers exposed and Seattle can take their pick. Johnson is a Stanley Cup winner from Seattle, he would be a pretty obvious choice for Captain and the guy that talks to media in a new market to connect with fans.

He would be a great player for an expansion team.

Would have to give us Cal Foote to take his contract and the risk.

Could help fill the hole left by Tofu in the short term or slide to an offensive 3rd line C.  

D and G would be going very, very young.

[Provost]

3 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

He would be a great player for an expansion team.

Would have to give us Cal Foote to take his contract and the risk.

Could help fill the hole left by Tofu in the short term or slide to an offensive 3rd line C.  

D and G would be going very, very young.

My above post there was being referenced was Johnson and Cernak for Gaudette and a 2nd.  Cernak is a proven guy who can insert right into our top 4, where Foote is more of an unproven commodity.  It also works better for TB as they can backfill Cernak with Foote for cheaper.

Edited October 10, 2020 by Provost

[oldnews]

To Tampa:

Pearson

Gaudette

4th

 

To Van:

Palat

Foote.

 

To Columbus:

6th round pick.

 

To Van:

Savard

 

Forget Johnson.

We don't need a small, long term, bottom six winger at 5 million...and we don't need Cernak badly enough to eat Johnson simply to acquire Cernak - there are far too many other possibiilites out there...

 

And I find no shortage of irony that doing so is proposed by one of the most constantly vocal critics of the bottom six forward contracts this team already has.

Serious contradiction - and a proposal to bring in a relative misfit for this build imo.

 

If we were taking on Johnson - take out the Gaudette and 2nd round pick and take Foote instead as compensation.

[BPA]

If TJ is not picked up off waivers, it'll force TB hand to make trades.

 

Maybe something like...

 

TJ (% salary retained) + Cernak for Guadette + Benn + 2nd 2021 + prospect.

 

That would help TB get under the cap and get a decent return.

 

VAN gets a top 6W and and a top 4D.

 

 

Edited October 10, 2020 by BPA

[oldnews]

1 hour ago, aGENT said:

Other GM's are like vultures! 

 

Wow...not even a DET or similar took him for free. They're all putting the screws to TBL..."Congrats on that cup!...NOW YOU PAY!" 

not really

no one in their right mind claims that contract.  not even close.

 

51.7% ozone starts

31 pts

playing on a pretty talented 3rd line for Tampa....

 

4yrs x 5 million....

 

sorry those are Roussel numbers - in easier minutes, without the grit

 

- and he aint playing with Cirelli, Palat, Kucherov, Point....those were his four most common linemates....think about that, and his 31 pts at 5 million.

 

And to be clear - I "like" Tyler Johnson - but...realistically - he is a fairly massive cap dump at this point.

[aGENT]

7 minutes ago, oldnews said:

not really

no one in their right mind claims that contract.  not even close.

 

51.7% ozone starts

31 pts

playing on a pretty talented 3rd line for Tampa....

 

4yrs x 5 million....

 

sorry those are Roussel numbers - in easier minutes, without the grit

 

- and he aint playing with Cirelli, Palat, Kucherov, Point....those were his four most common linemates....think about that, and his 31 pts at 5 million.

 

And to be clear - I "like" Tyler Johnson - but...realistically - he is a fairly massive cap dump at this point.

Fair. I mean he's not AWFUL. I just think it's funny nobody even took him for free. A normal year, Detroit or similar, grabs him IMO.

[CanuckFan1123]

I think TJ is solid but overrated and overpaid. But I would still be intrigued by him if we aren’t keeping Toffoli. Tampa can’t take back any salary at this point. I wonder if we could do: 

 

Cernak 

Johnson (20% retained)

 

for 

 

2nd round 

Rafferty

 

It May not seem great on paper for them but Johnson cleared waivers and essentially has no value at this point. Tampa cannot sign Sergachev/Cernak/Cirelli without moving him. At this point he’s a cap dump so that trade is pretty much what I’d be willing to give for Cernak. 

[Provost]

16 minutes ago, oldnews said:

To Tampa:

Pearson

Gaudette

4th

 

To Van:

Palat

Foote.

 

To Columbus:

6th round pick.

 

To Van:

Savard

 

Forget Johnson.

We don't need a small, long term, bottom six winger at 5 million...and we don't need Cernak badly enough to eat Johnson simply to acquire Cernak - there are far too many other possibiilites out there...

 

And I find no shortage of irony that doing so is proposed by one of the most constantly vocal critics of the bottom six forward contracts this team already has.

Serious contradiction - and a proposal to bring in a relative misfit for this build imo.

 

If we were taking on Johnson - take out the Gaudette and 2nd round pick and take Foote instead as compensation.

Well all your continued snide comments aside...

That proposal is worse for everyone involved.

1.  Tampa isn't likely going to want to give up Cal Foote to save $1.5 million net between Palat and Johnson.  It doesn't solve their problems and uses a huge trade chip to do so.  They need to shed more than $10 million in cap space, my proposal saves them half of that vs. 15% of that.  Why would they be interested enough in Pearson over Palat to give up a top prospect?

2.  Foote is who they would need to insert into their lineup for a cheap contract moving forward.
3.  We have had pretty darn good luck picking up "bottom six wingers" from Tampa, one of them was our leading point producer last year

4.  Johnson isn't just a winger, he is a natural centre.  We have holes on the wing and at centre that he could fit into.
5.  Palat hasn't been put on the block as of yet and Johnson has.  Palat has a full NTC, and Johnson has provided a list of teams already.
6.  You trade with Tampa leaves us without an experienced top 4D and then requires another trade that doesn't make a lot of sense for Columbus.  They aren't in a cap crunch at all, and unless they get Pietrangelo why would they ditch Savard?  They do that to get a decent return, not a 6th round pick... it is a crazy town kind of proposal.  They could probably swap him with Toronto for Andreas Johnson if they wanted.

[VegasCanuck]

4 minutes ago, CanuckFan1123 said:

I think TJ is solid but overrated and overpaid. But I would still be intrigued by him if we aren’t keeping Toffoli. Tampa can’t take back any salary at this point. I wonder if we could do: 

 

Cernak 

Johnson (20% retained)

 

for 

 

2nd round 

Rafferty

 

It May not seem great on paper for them but Johnson cleared waivers and essentially has no value at this point. Tampa cannot sign Sergachev/Cernak/Cirelli without moving him. At this point he’s a cap dump so that trade is pretty much what I’d be willing to give for Cernak. 

That trade does not give us the room necessary to sign Cernak.

 

We'd be better off giving him a reasonable offer sheet.

[oldnews]

8 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Fair. I mean he's not AWFUL. I just think it's funny nobody even took him for free. A normal year, Detroit or similar, grabs him IMO.

I don't find it funny at all.  I find it absolutely expected.  And I disagree that he's easily dumped in a 'normal' year - again look at his situational play and his production in context - it is quite poor.   And he's no 'penalty killer' - he killed 4 seconds of penalties this year - a good team, a well built team with a solid bottom six - does not utilize Johnson as a shutdown forward....Tampa made the corrections they needed to, to become a championship team - they became harder to play against, and they were able to 'carry' a Johnson contract, in a similar way to the Canucks being able to 'carry' an LE contract, at a much earlier stage of transition/competing, and yet make it to the final 8 (in large part, imo, because the team does have a balanced build - no longer had Johnson - or Gagner types - in hard minutes in their bottom six....

If we fishbowl all our own contracts - we really should look at contracts like Johnson's in precisely the same way.

 

Why would any GM do the Stanley Cup Champs that kind of favour?  - take that on - for 'free' - when Tampa ought to be coughing up considerably to move that?

Not even their friend Stevie Y should do that - it would not be in Detroit's interest.  They can gain important futures in the process of taking on cap dumps like that (ie a 2nd for Staal - who is as 'serviceable' as Johnson, and has one year of term, not 4.

 

I think it was actually a 'bad' move to waive him.  Desperation move.  Blood already in the water.... Not the best signalling imo.

 

Johnson would be a  good acquisition imo ....post termination....at a considerable haircut.  Otherwise, give me - at least - a  Cal Foote to eat that....and unfortunately, even then, I don't think eating that kind of contract is in the cards/makes sense for us....we're too far along the transition, and that cap for the next 4 years is too important with the kind of youth we will have to re-up.

 

 

[JeremyCuddles]

33 minutes ago, BPA said:

If TJ is not picked up off waivers, it'll force TB hand to make trades.

 

Maybe something like...

 

TJ (% salary retained) + Cernak for Guadette + Benn + 2nd 2021 + prospect.

 

That would help TB get under the cap and get a decent return.

 

VAN gets a top 6W and and a top 4D.

 

 

Why would they take Benn back if they're trying to get under the cap? On top of retaining on TJ. Lol. They are still trying to sign Cirelli and Sergachev. They aren't taking any cap back in a trade. They are moving cap out. Period. 

[oldnews]

4 minutes ago, Provost said:

That proposal is worse for everyone involved.

1.  Tampa isn't likely going to want to give up Cal Foote to save $1.5 million net between Palat and Johnson.  It doesn't solve their problems and uses a huge trade chip to do so.  They need to shed more than $10 million in cap space, my proposal saves them half of that vs. 15% of that.  Why would they be interested enough in Pearson over Palat to give up a top prospect?

2.  Foote is who they would need to insert into their lineup for a cheap contract moving forward.
3.  We have had pretty darn good luck picking up "bottom six wingers" from Tampa, one of them was our leading point producer last year

4.  Johnson isn't just a winger, he is a natural centre.  We have holes on the wing and at centre that he could fit into.
5.  Palat hasn't been put on the block as of yet and Johnson has.  Palat has a full NTC, and Johnson has provided a list of teams already.
6.  You trade with Tampa leaves us without an experienced top 4D and then requires another trade that doesn't make a lot of sense for Columbus.  They aren't in a cap crunch at all, and unless they get Pietrangelo why would they ditch Savard?  They do that to get a decent return, not a 6th round pick... it is a crazy town kind of proposal.  They could probably swap him with Toronto for Andreas Johnson if they wanted.

that is a bad read from top to bottom wadr - with every reaction based point you make being weak, imo.

 

the real low points  - attempting to compare Miller to Johnson....just so off in so many ways.

and the point of acquirng Foote is not to insert him as an inexperienced top 4 - nice straw attempt that's not the 'plan' wadr - you're talking around the point and it's a waste of time and words.

Eating Johnson for no compensation is the crazy town proposal wadr - and fluffing him as if he's our next JT Miller, is rose goggles.

This team needs to use it's leverage relative to Tampa - not bend over for them while not reading the market - or realisitically assessing Johnson.

[Provost]

37 minutes ago, oldnews said:

not really

no one in their right mind claims that contract.  not even close.

 

51.7% ozone starts

31 pts

playing on a pretty talented 3rd line for Tampa....

 

4yrs x 5 million....

 

sorry those are Roussel numbers - in easier minutes, without the grit

 

- and he aint playing with Cirelli, Palat, Kucherov, Point....those were his four most common linemates....think about that, and his 31 pts at 5 million.

 

And to be clear - I "like" Tyler Johnson - but...realistically - he is a fairly massive cap dump at this point.

What the heck?  When did Roussel get 31 points last year?  9 goals and 31 points is his career high in his first year with the Canucks.  That same year Johnson got 29 goals and 47 points.  Comparing the two on your part is just insane.  Johnson had more goals and points than JT Miller did the year we traded for Miller... both on the "3rd line".

Also Johnson is a centre, he is on the wing because Tampa has three better centres.  We do not.  Johnson has also gotten a ton of votes for the Selke as a great defensive forward, he has been used a ton on their penalty kill over the years.  Johnson would be a PK guy for us and play either as a top 6 winger or as a high end 3rd line centre who would PK and produce 40+ points of offence consistently.... that is IF he wasn't picked up by Seattle, which he most likely would be considering his connection there and the lack of anyone else to pick from our roster.

Edited October 10, 2020 by Provost

[oldnews]

2 minutes ago, Provost said:

What the heck?  When did Roussel get 31 points last year?  9 goals and 31 points is his career high in his first year with the Canucks.  That same year Johnson got 29 goals and 47 points.  Comparing the two on your part is just insane.  Johnson had more goals and points than JT Miller did the year we traded for Miller... both on the "3rd line".

Also Johnson is a centre, he is on the wing because Tampa has three better centres.  We do not.  Johnson has also gotten a ton of votes for the Selke as a great defensive forward, he has been used a ton on their penalty kill.

You are over-reacting wadr.  And your take is awful - and ironic - considering how frequently you rip into Roussel type signings.

 

Roussel in fact had 31 pts in 69 games one season ago - every single one of them 5 on 5.

Playing less than 14 minute

 

Getting 38.5% ozone starts - playing with Sutter types - not Point, Kucherov, Palat, Cirelli - Johnson's four most frequent linemate this season, when he scored 31 pts, with 51/7% ozone starts,

 

You are off you game today -  perhaps panicking, reacting, recoiling from not signing Tanev and/or Stecher.

Your takes are awful -and your proposal to give up Gaudette and a 2nd for Cernak, while eating this huge cap dump - is a bad read on the markte where you gave up all your leverage due to your desperation for a Cernak.

Take a deep breath and center yourself - you'd make really bad decsions under the circumstances.

 

 

[Sean Monahan]

18 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

5 years ago he was arguably the best player in the league, since then he's been a consistent 40 pt scorer, but that cap hit hurts these days.

There was never a point in time where Tyler Johnson was even arguably a top 10 player in the league, let alone the best.

[Provost]

15 minutes ago, oldnews said:

You are over-reacting wadr.  And your take is awful - and ironic - considering how frequently you rip into Roussel type signings.

 

Roussel in fact had 31 pts in 69 games one season ago - every single one of them 5 on 5.

Playing less than 14 minute

 

Getting 38.5% ozone starts - playing with Sutter types - not Point, Kucherov, Palat, Cirelli - Johnson's four most frequent linemate this season, when he scored 31 pts, with 51/7% ozone starts,

 

You are off you game today -  perhaps panicking, reacting, recoiling from not signing Tanev and/or Stecher.

Your takes are awful -and your proposal to give up Gaudette and a 2nd for Cernak, while eating this huge cap dump - is a bad read on the markte where you gave up all your leverage due to your desperation for a Cernak.

Take a deep breath and center yourself - you'd make really bad decsions under the circumstances.

 

 

You keep spouting gibberish and using nonsense terminology like "wadr" which from what I can infer you believe means "I don't have a rationale argument against these facts, so I am going to ignore them and hurl insults to try to deflect from my poor arguments".

In no way does Tampa Bay trade their top defensive prospect and the very type of cheap contract they need going forward to save $1.5 million dollars of cap.  Basically every team in the league beats that offer.  It is a non-starter... we don't even have to go into the rest of it.  

You comparing Roussel's peak performance two years ago to Johnson's performance where he scored 29 goals in that season while ON THE THIRD LINE is objectively ridiculous. 

Roussel had 13 points this season.  Johnson had 31.  Last year Roussel had a career high 9 goals and 31 points... Johnson had 29 goals and 47 points (not a career high) while buried behind a very deep Tampa Bay squad.  You are trying to cherry pick Roussel's best season with Johnson's worst... and Johnson STILL comes out ahead on production.  Johnson is also an effective penalty killer and a centre, Roussel is neither of those things.  He hasn't been used on the PK as much this year because they happen to have Point and Cirelli.  We desperately need a penalty killing centre who can also produce offence.  We also need to inject speed into our lineup, and Johnson has that in spades.  If he didn't get picked up by Seattle in expansion, what a great centre he would make for Hoglander and Podkolzin as they came into the league and tried to work their way into the top 6.

Comparing my criticism of signing bottom 6 UFAs to too much term... with trading for a slightly overpaid middle 6 player who outproduces half our top 6 that also gets us a legitimate young stud blue liner to partner with Hughes for a decade?  Those aren't the same thing at all.  I would complain about our bottom six forwards at all if they each came with a blue chip young NHL player... none of them did.  None of them have come near to approaching Johnson's offensive production either.

Edited October 10, 2020 by Provost

[oldnews]

1 minute ago, Provost said:

You keep spouting gibberish and using nonsense terminology like "wadr"

yawn - sorry - not reading the rest - I've said what I have to say and am not going to waste any more time with this.  I think you're unglued and should probably recompose yourself.

get some sunshine.