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3 minutes ago, IRR said:

All fair / valid points, but maybe??? we need to appreciate it for the beautiful piece of art it is instead of turning it into something else that it doesn't need to be. I think that may be the problem these days...picking the wrong battles / creating the wrong issues. Def not saying you're wrong or that what i'm saying is the right way to look at it...i'm really not sure anymore. At this point i like it for what it is...but if goes deeper than that, then i may have to re-evaluate / re-think things. Maybe i'm just tired of all the issues these days as well...it's been tough to navigate things lately! 

I get that. And I was trying my best in that post to not be too critical. I really don’t think anyone involved had bad intentions. I fully believe that both the artist and Holtby intended this to be respectful and a celebration of the beautiful art and culture of the Indigenous peoples of the region in which the Canucks are based.

 

That said, this one was such a missed opportunity, and it was basically a lay-up.

 

Would have been so easy to find an Indigenous artist to do the artwork, or to consult with the local First Nations, before going ahead with the design. And this would have earned a tonne of good will and good press for a new player, as well as possibly put some much needed money in the pockets of local Indigenous artists.

 

Unfortunate too, because Holtby tends to be on the right side of these kinds of issues, and I expect that he’ll be disappointed when he realizes this might have an unintended effect. I also won’t be surprised if he takes it as a learning experience, does something to address and correct it, and is a better person for it (and he’s already a great guy, by most accounts).

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6 minutes ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

I get that. And I was trying my best in that post to not be too critical. I really don’t think anyone involved had bad intentions. I fully believe that both the artist and Holtby intended this to be respectful and a celebration of the beautiful art and culture of the Indigenous peoples of the region in which the Canucks are based.

 

That said, this one was such a missed opportunity, and it was basically a lay-up.

 

Would have been so easy to find an Indigenous artist to do the artwork, or to consult with the local First Nations, before going ahead with the design. And this would have earned a tonne of good will and good press for a new player, as well as possibly put some much needed money in the pockets of local Indigenous artists.

 

Unfortunate too, because Holtby tends to be on the right side of these kinds of issues, and I expect that he’ll be disappointed when he realizes this might have an unintended effect. I also won’t be surprised if he takes it as a learning experience, does something to address and correct it, and is a better person for it (and he’s already a great guy, by most accounts).

I hear ya! Yeah, i think you're right about that! Def a missed opportunity. You'd think in this day & age they'd think of all these things. It's too bad, because def a nice idea.

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Also, as predicted, the reaction in already in full force on social media. 
 

And, as expected, the most vocal opposition is coming from the typical “keyboard warrior” types (as well as the most vocal support and marked attempts to deny the validity of cultural appropriation as a whole).

 

As for the actual Indigenous people commenting on the issue, they are offering the most sane opinions (as is usually the case). Generally, they’re saying it would’ve been nice to have been consulted, and would have loved to have seen an Indigenous artist do the work, but they still see the mask as a celebration of their culture, and generally don’t have a problem with it.

 

(Just a note: the above was poorly worded. I didn’t mean to attempt to speak for Indigenous peoples or state their opinions for them. Just was summarizing the responses I’ve read on social media from people who identified themselves as belonging to that culture.)

Edited by SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME
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35 minutes ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

Also, as predicted, the reaction in already in full force on social media. 
 

And, as expected, the most vocal opposition is coming from the typical “keyboard warrior” types (as well as the most vocal support and marked attempts to deny the validity of cultural appropriation as a whole).

 

As for the actual Indigenous people commenting on the issue, they are offering the most sane opinions (as is usually the case). Generally, they’re saying it would’ve been nice to have been consulted, and would have loved to have seen an Indigenous artist do the work, but they still see the mask as a celebration of their culture, and generally don’t have a problem with it.

 

(Just a note: the above was poorly worded. I didn’t mean to attempt to speak for Indigenous peoples or state their opinions for them. Just was summarizing the responses I’ve read on social media from people who identified themselves as belonging to that culture.)

Go figure.....people that are more upset (sometimes being a*****) than the people who should potentially be upset with an issue. Seems like a common theme these days. As you mentioned, most Indigenous people have a much more positive, balanced reaction / opinion. I'm with them, things could have been approached / done differently, but it can still be appreciated for the art it is / its significance. All these non Indigenous people overreacting / jumping off the deep end like they're fighting on behalf (being a hero) of Indigenous people, but they don't 100% know how Indigenous people feel / want to react. And maybe they don't want them reacting that way on their behalf?! Reminds me of some extreme behavior coming from white people re: the BLM movement...not what was needed and not what was wanted by most African American people. Maybe more people should consult the Indigenous & African American people before freaking out on their behalf? 

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2 hours ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

It’s beautiful work, but I fully expect a cultural appropriation uproar in the coming days. And not without reason. I expect everyone involved has the best intentions, but I’m not sure a Swedish artist based in Sweden was the best choice for creating a Thunderbird based mask.

 

Especially for a white hockey player playing in the region that is home to First Nations for whom these are sacred images. And also a city and region where you’re basically spoiled for choice, when it comes to Indigenous artists who could easily have created the same, or better, artwork.

 

Not saying I want there to be a controversy. Just that I fully expect one, and definitely won’t say that’s it’s wrong if certain people are upset by this kind of use of First Nations cultural symbols.

I have a feeling it won’t even be a conversation starter.

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17 hours ago, canuck73_3 said:

The only conversation starter it’s been in my circles is for making fun of overly sensitive habitually offended morons. 
 

I'm 50% native and could care less who painted it, its a bad ass depiction of indigenous artwork, no matter who painted it. 

PC culture often exhibits the weak thinking going on. Do we restrict the various schools of art around the world to the ethnic origin of the founders? Laughable! 

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Only in Canucksville! :canucks: 

Last week the Anthem singer gets fired over twitter for not wearing a mask.

This week our new goalie gets throttled on twitter and has to apologize for wearing a mask. :picard:

Edited by Mackcanuck
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 11/23/2020 at 7:55 PM, #Canucks said:

You can definitely look at it that way. Nothing wrong with that. I choose to see it as Ian probably did not have Holtby in his top 3-5 goalies in FA but I would like to assume given Holtby’s contract; make him look good and ship him off next year in the expansion draft & let’s see what we got in Demko with some insurance kind of move.

The problem with Woodley's comment is it isn't even a rumor or hearsay but is being construed as such. It says "he doesn't believe" meaning it's pure opinion rather than something from an actual inside source. Otherwise he would say he was told this by an "inside source". People have a tendency to skip the "in my opinion" and "I believe" when these guys say things and take it as true inside information rather than pure speculation. His belief likely has more to do with his opinion of Holtby than anything factual.

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12 hours ago, Squamfan said:

benning better sign clarke to an extension, hope he doesn't get his ego out like he did with tanev, markstorm, TT, etc

Could you try that again in English? I assume that you meant to say something, but whatever you are trying to say isn't obvious.

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3 hours ago, WeneedLumme said:

Could you try that again in English? I assume that you meant to say something, but whatever you are trying to say isn't obvious.

Clearly hates how Benning spent less money and term on an improved defense and lateral goal tending :lol:

 

&^@#ing Dim-Jim! 

Edited by aGENT
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2 hours ago, aGENT said:

Clearly hates how Benning spent less money and term on an improved defense and lateral goal tending :lol:

 

&^@#ing Dim-Jim! 

Ah, I see. I thought it might be something like that, but the illiterate ranting did not make it clear. Thanks for the translation.

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7 hours ago, WeneedLumme said:

Could you try that again in English? I assume that you meant to say something, but whatever you are trying to say isn't obvious.

I believe he's claiming that Clark is the primary reason for our good goaltending, not he goaltenders themselves. Much like how Bracket was apparently the reason for all the good drafting, not Benning or the rest of his team.

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