Lazurus Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 (edited) Only 7.9 mil left in capspace It should be clear now that the team that played last year was a one time effort and that stepping back is going to happen So let's make the best of it. Offer sheets require a plan going forward, evaluating the skills of the players, I am pretty sure that either of those two will be worth 3.5 mil in a couple of years and if not their youth makes them excellent trade assets. Traded away a 2nd round pick #35, for Linden Vey so why not a 2nd round pick for Sergachev or Cernak? Are either better than Benn, Fantneberg, Stecher or Tanev? Will they ever be better than those guys? They both have not only NHL but Stanely Cup experience as well. Tampa cannot match, right now they are trying to move a 30 yr old with 4 yrs of term at an avg of 5 mil, the only teams looking at this type of player are those that are cup contenders and need a finishing piece, besides Johnson's game has been sliding for two yrs now, maybe he is their Eriksson. Offer 3.75 to both. If the NEEDS to step back then lets get set up with very good young players to move forward in two years. IMO the current status of the team is encouraging, it appears the lesson of mixed rebuild and whatever else didn't work, just like it hasn't with numerous other teams that tried and failed and ended up with a bollixed rebuild and then had to blow it up after another 3 years of failure, Colorado is an good example, got their 2 or 3 young stars, struggled, signed vets, over spent and then blew it up and are still recovering but now have a young team (average) and are growing together with better players. I wouldn't expect to get both players but would focus on Sergachev, maybe as high as 4.2 mil avg, 4.6 over 6 years offer sheet, that cost a 2nd, a Vey pick Edited October 10, 2020 by Lazurus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucker 67 Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 Offer what, Jim's broke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_314 Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 Not so fast. Virtanen's going to arbitration, plus depends if we somehow still want in on Toffoli and we'd need to get another depth D unless we go all kids. Might be time for Benning to follow suit and trade out pending UFA's e.g. flip Sutter/ Baertschi for late picks and cap space first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalCanuckFan Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 The Canucks have Gaudette and Virtanen to re-sign and need at least 1-more RHD, assuming they expect Juolevi and Rafferty to be full-time in the top-6 next year. I guess Chatfield has an outside chance of getting regular playing time as well but that would be quite a surprise. If the Canucks expect Baertschi to compete for a spot in the top-6 and to place Eriksson and Sutter in the AHL, then they might actually be able to afford everyone and still pay one RHD about $4.5M (this accounts for Ferland too). Offer sheeting Cernak in the $4.3M range seems steep but might be hard for the Lightning to counter and the cost is only a 2nd round pick. I think it's a stretch with Baertschi but I guess it's possible and given Benning's comments, it sounds like they're open to his return. Of course, if the Canucks can in fact swing a trade to clear up cap space, then maybe they can do a bit more but it's technically feasible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogs & Podz Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 Sign Virtanen 2×2.4. Flip Virtanen to Columbus for Savard + 4th. Trade a 2021 2nd and 5th to Tampa for Cernak (otherwise offer sheet). Trade Sutter and 4th from Columbus To free up cap to get Toffoli signed. So... JT Petey Toff Höglander Horvat Boeser Pearson Gaudette Leivo Rousell Beagle McEwen Hughes Cernak Edler Myers OJ Savard Chatfield Benn Just spitballing.... Glad I'm not GM! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyCuddles Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 9 minutes ago, Hogs & Podz said: Sign Virtanen 2×2.4. Flip Virtanen to Columbus for Savard + 4th. Trade a 2021 2nd and 5th to Tampa for Cernak (otherwise offer sheet). Trade Sutter and 4th from Columbus To free up cap to get Toffoli signed. So... JT Petey Toff Höglander Horvat Boeser Pearson Gaudette Leivo Rousell Beagle McEwen Hughes Cernak Edler Myers OJ Savard Chatfield Benn Just spitballing.... Glad I'm not GM! Why would Virtanen sign a 2 year deal when he can go to arbitration and get more money for one fewer years on the deal? Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogs & Podz Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, N7Nucks said: Why would Virtanen sign a 2 year deal when he can go to arbitration and get more money for one fewer years on the deal? Lol Not sure how arbitration works, but whatever he signs for based on that number... Still flipping for Savard... Do you have any suggestions/proposals?... That's what this threads all about isn't it? Or do you think JB's screwed? Edited October 10, 2020 by Hogs & Podz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazurus Posted October 10, 2020 Author Share Posted October 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Hogs & Podz said: Not sure how arbitration works, but whatever he signs for based on that number... Still flipping for Savard... Do you have any suggestions/proposals?... That's what this threads all about isn't it? Or do you think JB's screwed? Savard is a Torts favored and Columbus doesn't need cap space 2 hours ago, NUCKER67 said: Offer what, Jim's broke Offer sheet, up to 4.3 mil only cost ONE single 2nd round pick, the same as Vey. 1 hour ago, N7Nucks said: Why would Virtanen sign a 2 year deal when he can go to arbitration and get more money for one fewer years on the deal? Lol Give Jake a bridge deal to take him to FA. Other than that there are several forwards on the market Besides the GM mantra is to rebuild from the back out, they got Demko, they got Hughes so go after one or two top level young defencemen for a 2nd round pick Cap management might mean Jake walks for nothing but then the team just paid a huge amount for a rental. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogs & Podz Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 11 minutes ago, Lazurus said: Savard is a Torts favored and Columbus doesn't need cap space Offer sheet, up to 4.3 mil only cost ONE single 2nd round pick, the same as Vey. Give Jake a bridge deal to take him to FA. Other than that there are several forwards on the market Besides the GM mantra is to rebuild from the back out, they got Demko, they got Hughes so go after one or two top level young defencemen for a 2nd round pick Cap management might mean Jake walks for nothing but then the team just paid a huge amount for a rental. I hear Martinez might be available if vegas gets Petriangelo... He'd be a good Tanev replacement and sight upgrade offensively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwijibo Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 You have to have the picks required for compensation in order to do an offer sheet. So you can’t do two offer sheets where the compensation is a 2nd. The only way you could offer sheet both is to offer one of them between $2.1 and $4.3m (compensation 2nd round pick) and the other between $4.4m and $6.5m. (Compensation 3rd round pick and 1st round pick) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKNuck96 Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 16 hours ago, qwijibo said: You have to have the picks required for compensation in order to do an offer sheet. So you can’t do two offer sheets where the compensation is a 2nd. The only way you could offer sheet both is to offer one of them between $2.1 and $4.3m (compensation 2nd round pick) and the other between $4.4m and $6.5m. (Compensation 3rd round pick and 1st round pick) Or you do them consecutively rather than concurrently. also people on here throw the offer sheet phrase out loads with the view that that’s all you have to do. Players still have to sign them. lets say we offer sheet cernak- he could be - yo the Canucks have sent a contract through it looks good guys, what’s the plan for freeing up space here. And they could give him some commitment and he could reject it, they could even pull a trigger on a trade before he signs it. Yes I know you cannot trade a player who you have matched an offer sheet, but nothing stops them shifting them before one is signed. the player may not want to come here either so can reject it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwijibo Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 2 hours ago, UKNuck96 said: Or you do them consecutively rather than concurrently. also people on here throw the offer sheet phrase out loads with the view that that’s all you have to do. Players still have to sign them. lets say we offer sheet cernak- he could be - yo the Canucks have sent a contract through it looks good guys, what’s the plan for freeing up space here. And they could give him some commitment and he could reject it, they could even pull a trigger on a trade before he signs it. Yes I know you cannot trade a player who you have matched an offer sheet, but nothing stops them shifting them before one is signed. the player may not want to come here either so can reject it. Totally agree. Baring a conversation with Brisebois where he indicates there’s no money to sign them I don’t see why either Tampa RFA would choose to sign elsewhere. Some people seem to think the player is obligated to sign an offer sheet if it’s made. It couldn’t be further from the truth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazurus Posted October 11, 2020 Author Share Posted October 11, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, qwijibo said: Totally agree. Baring a conversation with Brisebois where he indicates there’s no money to sign them I don’t see why either Tampa RFA would choose to sign elsewhere. Some people seem to think the player is obligated to sign an offer sheet if it’s made. It couldn’t be further from the truth An offer sheet does a few things besides automatic acceptance. It forces the other team to make a move. With an RFA without arbitration rights that could a simple trade for what the team would get for an offer sheet or maybe a bit more. Doing offer sheets for both Cernak and Segachev almost assures that Tampa would trade one of them in a favourable time period, the longer they wait the better it is for them. An offer sheet could come down to a trade of Juloevi for Segachev plus a 5th rounder or even straight up It is a tool and can be used in many ways to have various effects don't get locked into only the RFA player has power, if traded then that team pays him. But it sets a price and time period it has to be done fast Edited October 11, 2020 by Lazurus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danaimo Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 2 hours ago, qwijibo said: Totally agree. Baring a conversation with Brisebois where he indicates there’s no money to sign them I don’t see why either Tampa RFA would choose to sign elsewhere. Some people seem to think the player is obligated to sign an offer sheet if it’s made. It couldn’t be further from the truth Tampa's RFAs will probably be very motivated to sign an offersheet. Given that TAM has committed huge dollars to it's stars on long term deals there simply is no cap space left. The current economy makes a lot of Tampa's contracts untradeable. If they stay in TAM they may only get $1m pa. An offer sheet for Sergachev or Cernak would be $3m++ . These are uncertain times so the players agent will be telling them to take as much as they can for maximum term. I'm pretty sure the players agents, Brisebois and all of the other GMs know that there is no money to sign them, directly or via a matched offersheet. You are right, players do not have to sign them. But I bet their agents are hoping they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwijibo Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 5 hours ago, Lazurus said: An offer sheet does a few things besides automatic acceptance. It forces the other team to make a move. With an RFA without arbitration rights that could a simple trade for what the team would get for an offer sheet or maybe a bit more. Doing offer sheets for both Cernak and Segachev almost assures that Tampa would trade one of them in a favourable time period, the longer they wait the better it is for them. An offer sheet could come down to a trade of Juloevi for Segachev plus a 5th rounder or even straight up It is a tool and can be used in many ways to have various effects don't get locked into only the RFA player has power, if traded then that team pays him. But it sets a price and time period it has to be done fast You can’t offer sheet both of them at the same time though. (Unless you do two different tiers that require completely different compensation) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazurus Posted October 11, 2020 Author Share Posted October 11, 2020 1 minute ago, qwijibo said: You can’t offer sheet both of them at the same time though. (Unless you do two different tiers that require completely different compensation) Okay then offer one 4.2 mil and other 3.4 mil. But why can't they offer sheet two? All they have to do is have their own picks and I think they have multiple years. At any rate they would get one of them almost for sure or cause Tampa to make a favorable trade for the rights if the deal was give one and the other is not bothered or an accommodation for an offer sheet that can be matched Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKNuck96 Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 Just now, Lazurus said: Okay then offer one 4.2 mil and other 3.4 mil. But why can't they offer sheet two? All they have to do is have their own picks and I think they have multiple years. At any rate they would get one of them almost for sure or cause Tampa to make a favorable trade for the rights if the deal was give one and the other is not bothered or an accommodation for an offer sheet that can be matched To offer sheet you need those picks available for the next draft at the point of submitting it. therefor you cannot submit 2 sheets requiring say the same second round pick because you only have one available 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazurus Posted October 11, 2020 Author Share Posted October 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, UKNuck96 said: To offer sheet you need those picks available for the next draft at the point of submitting it. therefor you cannot submit 2 sheets requiring say the same second round pick because you only have one available It would strange but I don't see both going, you could offer sheet or threaten to offer sheet both, one as a contingency, Offer Cernak 2.1 mil and Sergachev 4 Or just get Tampa to trade their rights by threatening to, Juloevi and a 2nd for Sergachev. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwijibo Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 42 minutes ago, Lazurus said: It would strange but I don't see both going, you could offer sheet or threaten to offer sheet both, one as a contingency, Offer Cernak 2.1 mil and Sergachev 4 Or just get Tampa to trade their rights by threatening to, Juloevi and a 2nd for Sergachev. If I was brisebois,and a team was threatening to offer sheet one of my players, I’d get on the phone and trade him to any team OTHER than the team trying to strong-arm me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patel Bure Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 (edited) Given that we will have to reup all of Demko, Pettersson, and Hughes next season, the Canucks might not even be able to afford signing an RFA from another team via successful offer sheet. If the Canucks are looking to add someone, I think signing or trading for a guy on a one year deal (or having one year left on his deal), would probably make the most sense. But again - this is contingent on how much cap space the Canucks will actually have left after the Virtanen arbitration, Gaudette signing, Juolevi signing, etc. After looking at our defense for next season, it may not be as bad as I had originally thought: Hughes-Myers Edler-Rafferty [Rathbone or Juolevi]-Benn Chatfield -Edler can mentor Rafferty -Each pairing will have a very good PMD (which was arguably our biggest weakness this past season) -Edler can be taken off the PP and focus more of his efforts on the PK. Benn and Chatfield can also be used here. I still contend that one of Rathbone or Juolevi might be used as a sweetener at some point to clear cap space if Benning sees it fit to make an aggressive push this season at some point. ps - MAYBE at the deadline, if the Canucks look competitive and have the cap space, you can move ONE of Juolevi and Rathbone + 2021 1st for a Dougie Hamilton (Hamilton would be a pure rental since we wouldn’t be able to afford his cap the following year). Carolina likely wouldn’t do that deal since they themselves will be a competitive team, but I’m just spitballing here. Edited October 12, 2020 by DarkIndianRises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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