Elias Pettersson Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 29 minutes ago, BigTramFan said: Ferland is problematic because he still wants to play. There is every chance he heals up from his head injuries and gets clearance to play again. His agent says he still wants to play. So when that happens, the Canucks have to keep $3.5m of cap space ready for him. So although we can be above the cap, as soon as he is healthy we need to move $3.5m out. Not ideal, especially in this current market. If Ferland is on LTIR then the best move is to only go over the cap limit by about $900k and fill Ferland's spot with a ELC player that we can send down without being picked up on waivers, e.g. Hoglander. So here's how it works: $7.95m in cap space right now Allow cap space to go $0.9m above the cap limit due to Ferland LTIR situation = $8.85m space Replace Ferland on LTIR with Hoglander = back down to $7.95m space waive Eriksson, Baer, Rafferty, saves $3.075m total = $11m space sign Gaudette + Virtanen, say $4.5m combined = $6.5m space Bring up Juolevi = $5.66m cap space So $5.66m in space with 13F + 5D + 2G + 1LTIR. Need to sign 2 more Dmen. Assuming we can't move any contracts, I'm saying Vatanen + Fantenberg could be the best of what is available for that total price. The other option is to just sign one of them and bring up Rafferty. Those are all good points. One thing I'll add with Ferland is that him wanting to play and him being medically cleared to play are two different things. The last two times he attempted to play he was gone after one game and after two games. So the Canuck doctors might not clear him to play. Heck even his own doctors might tell him to hang them up. I can't see a scenario where Ferland plays at all next year. Hopefully he talks to Crosby and gets some good advice, which is to sit out the entire year and see how he feels in the summer of 2021. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTramFan Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said: Those are all good points. One thing I'll add with Ferland is that him wanting to play and him being medically cleared to play are two different things. The last two times he attempted to play he was gone after one game and after two games. So the Canuck doctors might not clear him to play. Heck even his own doctors might tell him to hang them up. I can't see a scenario where Ferland plays at all next year. Hopefully he talks to Crosby and gets some good advice, which is to sit out the entire year and see how he feels in the summer of 2021. Yeah it's not 100% clear around how a player gets declared medically fit to play when it is a head injury. Certainly, if there was a verbal agreement between JB and Ferland, that MF would give it as much time as possible to heal, and not risk playing until playoff time, then JB could use the full $3.5m of LTIR cap relief. This would give the Canucks a better chance of making the playoffs, would give MF the best chance at a full rehab during the regular season, and if he is ready and chooses to he can come back and risk playing again at the best time of year. He may even be a difference maker for the Canucks in the playoffs. But something tells me it might not be that simple to just choose to stay on LTIR... However, if the above scenario worked out, then we'd have about $8.2m to spend to complete the roster. I would be tempted to do the following: Send Hoglander back down to the minors (less $0.9m) now $9.1m space and need to add at least 1F + 2D Sign Vatanen $2.5m, Fantenberg $1m, Toffoli $4.6m, and bring Rafferty $0.7m up from minors Regular season roster with Ferland on LTIR: Miller Pettersson Boeser Pearson Horvat Toffoli Roussel Sutter Virtanen Motte Beagle MacEwen (Gaudette) Hughes Myers Edler Vatanen Juolevi Fantenberg (Benn Rafferty) Demko (Holtby) Edited October 12, 2020 by BigTramFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTramFan Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 2 hours ago, Crabcakes said: You're all full of assumptions. You can't assume that Virtanen's arbitration is going to come in lower rather than higher. You have to wait until the arb comes in. You're suggesting that they sign Gaudette for less than he got last year? Actually, $500 is less than the league minimum. Assuming that Ferland doesn't attempt to play next season. You really can't control that. So ya, you could bury Eriksson and Baertschi and save 1.075M each but you still have to have 23 players on the roster. Ok you don't have to have that many, but it would be foolish not to. Benning will have to make a trade to round out the roster because some salary will have to go out. The math doesn't lie. Hi Crabcakes, You have to make SOME assumptions in order to have a discussion! I thought assuming a resigned value of $3m for Virtanen and $1.5m for Gaudette was not too bad. What do you think they will get? (clearly JV has arbitration rights and AG does not, so that will make a big difference). I don't think oldnews was saying Gaudette would be signed to $500k, he meant that Gaudette is signed for $1.5m, but then Baer is waived saving $1m and Gaudette takes his roster spot. So the effective cap hit from the Gaudette signing is only $500k. I have tried to address my thoughts on the Ferland situation. We can only speculate. JB and MF will know exactly what they are dealing with and they will be able to make decisions on that information. My #1 priority would be MFs safety. He should take as long as he needs to get well. If that means never playing again and earning $3.5m per year on LTIR, then so be it. However, he has expressed his desire to return to play and resume his career. I hope he is getting excellent advice and help. I would love to see him return to the Canucks lineup one day, fit and healthy. If the timeline is looking like a return during the upcoming regular season, then JB will need to factor that into the plan (i.e. only go about $0.9m over the cap limit so that MFs roster spot can be filled by an ELC player that can be returned to the minors without having to clear waivers). Regarding roster size, I think it is quite feasible to run with 22 players (one spare F, D and G). If we end up being below the cap limit including Ferland's cap hit, then it would be prudent to not add extra players and maximise the amount of cap space can be "banked" to pay off some of the performance bonuses for 2020/21. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, BigTramFan said: Ferland is problematic because he still wants to play. There is every chance he heals up from his head injuries and gets clearance to play again. His agent says he still wants to play. So when that happens, the Canucks have to keep $3.5m of cap space ready for him. So although we can be above the cap, as soon as he is healthy we need to move $3.5m out. Not ideal, especially in this current market. If Ferland is on LTIR then the best move is to only go over the cap limit by about $900k and fill Ferland's spot with a ELC player that we can send down without being picked up on waivers, e.g. Hoglander. So here's how it works: $7.95m in cap space right now Allow cap space to go $0.9m above the cap limit due to Ferland LTIR situation = $8.85m space Replace Ferland on LTIR with Hoglander = back down to $7.95m space waive Eriksson, Baer, Rathbone, saves $3.075m total = $11m space sign Gaudette + Virtanen, say $4.5m combined = $6.5m space Bring up Juolevi = $5.66m cap space So $5.66m in space with 13F + 5D + 2G + 1LTIR. Need to sign a minimum of 2 more Dmen. Assuming we can't move any contracts, I'm saying Vatanen + Fantenberg could be the best of what is available for that total price. The other option is to just sign one of them and bring up Rafferty. That's not quite how it works. When in LTIR the performance bonuses of players who are added to the roster after the start of the season have to be accounted for, as long as they are still attainable. In your example, if you recall Juolevi after putting Ferland on LTIR, his cap hit is not 863K but 1.9M. Would also apply to Podkolzin if he is brought in mid-season (incl. marked up signing bonus). As there's no banked cap space you have to be under the cap by the full cap hit including the performance bonus of the season. In your available cap space you also need to account for short term injuries/sickness where they would need to recall players from Utica. Using LTIR also means that all bonuses are pushed into next season as there's no possibility to bank cap space. Pettersson/Hughes will likely again hit 1.7M. Pettersson could reach an additional 2M and Juolevi/Rathbone might hit on some of their targets. CapFriendly's explanation on recalls when using LTIR: Edited October 12, 2020 by mll 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 49 minutes ago, mll said: That's not quite how it works. When in LTIR the performance bonuses of players who are added to the roster after the start of the season have to be accounted for, as long as they are still attainable. In your example, if you recall Juolevi after putting Ferland on LTIR, his cap hit is not 863K but 1.9M. Would also apply to Podkolzin if he is brought in mid-season (incl. marked up signing bonus). As there's no banked cap space you have to be under the cap by the full cap hit including the performance bonus of the season. In your available cap space you also need to account for short term injuries/sickness where they would need to recall players from Utica. Using LTIR also means that all bonuses are pushed into next season as there's no possibility to bank cap space. Pettersson/Hughes will likely again hit 1.7M. Pettersson could reach an additional 2M and Juolevi/Rathbone might hit on some of their targets. CapFriendly's explanation on recalls when using LTIR: This is one of the reasons JB is taking the cautious route so far with his cap space. So far only Markstroms deal is on the heavy side, I’d expect AP will be too... Krugs maybe too. Even then at a little bit of a market discount compared to normal years. A lot of short term deals with small raises so far and that’s it. I’m glad JB is so far being cautious - as long as he doesn’t fill up cap space just because he has it - other then one or two year deals - I’m pretty sure we will come out of this ahead and keep the window years open for key additions. He has to replace both Tanev and Edler, Myers and QHs is a very good start, think he’s going to focus on the defense and find out whom of OJ, Rafferty, Rathbone and Woo can make it as core and support players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekker Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 11 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: Those are all good points. One thing I'll add with Ferland is that him wanting to play and him being medically cleared to play are two different things. The last two times he attempted to play he was gone after one game and after two games. So the Canuck doctors might not clear him to play. Heck even his own doctors might tell him to hang them up. I can't see a scenario where Ferland plays at all next year. Hopefully he talks to Crosby and gets some good advice, which is to sit out the entire year and see how he feels in the summer of 2021. Didn't something similar happen with Malhotra, Gilles, Canucks et all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 sorry to interrupt the canuck's cap discussion... but.... Another rumour out there is that Schmidt, or Martinez - might wind up in Winnipeg in exchange for Jack Roslovic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 https://www.prohockeyrumors.com/2020/10/winnipeg-jets-looking-to-trade-jack-roslovic.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squamfan Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 Dhaliwal: I've been told by 2 sources to monitor Vancouver looking into Schmidt. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peaches5 Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 Schmidt is pretty underrated but there is no way Vegas trades him to us. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10pavelbure96 Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, Squamfan said: Dhaliwal: I've been told by 2 sources to monitor Vancouver looking into Schmidt. Where did you see that? Nothing on his twitter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Sestito Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 (edited) Schmidt is a legitimate top pairing defenseman. If he's available for anything less than a lottery pick, he's a pretty awesome asset that any team would be lucky to have. Very fair number as well. A much better hockey player than OEL. However, considering context, the Canucks shouldn't pay a full ask like with Miller last year as they literally have no choice but to move this guy because no one is taking Fleury. Edited October 13, 2020 by Tom Sestito 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10pavelbure96 Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 1 minute ago, Tom Sestito said: Schmidt is a legitimate top pairing defenseman. If he's available for anything less than a lottery pick, he's a pretty awesome asset that any team would be lucky to have. Very fair number as well. A much better hockey player than OEL. However, considering context, the Canucks shouldn't pay a full ask like with Miller last year as they literally have no choice but to move this guy because no one is taking Fleury. Hes a lefty though. Schmidt and Vatanen . I'm fine with running with youth up front like Hog and maybe Lind as long as we shore up the D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkyard Dog Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 Just now, 10pavelbure96 said: Hes a lefty though. Schmidt and Vatanen . I'm fine with running with youth up front like Hog and maybe Lind as long as we shore up the D He plays the right side for Vegas. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandmaster Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 Who ever lands this guy, it will be a lopsided deal. Vegas is desperate to shed cap. I wish all the teams were able collude and no one helps them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squamfan Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 15 minutes ago, 10pavelbure96 said: Where did you see that? Nothing on his twitter his interview on 1040 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McClane Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 Too Vancouver for a 3rd as per Elliott Friedman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McClane Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 Confirmed by Dreger and LeBrun. 2022 3rd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24K PureCool Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 Damn no wonder JB was cool as a cucumber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Vintage Canuck- Posted October 13, 2020 Author Share Posted October 13, 2020 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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