Why are we never in on top free agents? Toffoli gone to Montreal. Our group going forward.

[handles]

1 hour ago, Canuckfanforlife82 said:

Ya, but shouldn’t Benning be held accountable? It’s almost like it’s ok he put us in this position and he just gets to continue his ways. I am out of patience when it comes to Benning. It should never be one step forward two steps back. It’s a bad recipe for a franchise that wants to win a cup. They still need two defenseman, a forward, a power forward and some better players in the bottom lines that can contribute. Six years and counting! So what is the timeline for the Stanley cup now?

Maybe he will be now, he's been here long enough. The story before was, we've had to much change over in the front office, and people were wary of that. Aquaman had a quick trigger finger, and had to atone for that? 

 

I would recommend you, to do what I did. I simply unfollowed this team during the regular season. not worth the time and energy it requires. 

[DSVII]

Not so much the cap. Benning doesn't know how to manage communication. these guys wanted to stay for a discount. 

 

https://twitter.com/FarhanLaljiTSN/status/1315721689016102914?s=20

 

Edited October 12, 2020 by DSVII

[Pink Sock]

9 minutes ago, Slegr said:

I’m glad we kept Demko and didn’t sign Markstrom to a long expensive contract.

I’m also glad we didn’t sign Tanev to four years given his horrible injury record. 
Stecher is a non factor.

Toffoli kind of hurts. He has some pure offensive abilities that looked good in our mix.

I’m patient enough to see how this unfolds though. Benning has still done a good job over all.

This is exactly how I feel as well. 

[Canuckfanforlife82]

3 minutes ago, Pink Sock said:

This is exactly how I feel as well. 

Reality is that it has been a mixed bag. He's been ok on trades, although I find he gives way too much up. and he has done well in the draft but you could also say there are a few misses in there as well. I just don't like or undertand the game plan.

Edited October 12, 2020 by Canuckfanforlife82

[24K PureCool]

Just take the L next season, we are right now in great shape for the seasons after when all of the bad contracts come off the book. 

 

Next season gonna be a shortened one or non existant anyways. So no real lose. 

 

Non of the UFAs we lost are key pieces going forward past next season anyways.

 

Look forward to Luke Hughes.

[JM_]

1 hour ago, 10pavelbure96 said:

Mark Messier and Loui Eriksson ruined it for all of us lol

we need a crying while laughing emoji for this one 

[Lazurus]

1 hour ago, iceman64 said:

Ok so snap your fingers and get us more cap space please?! thanks in advance... Oh and by the way, we need to f'n stop with the free agent bull$&!# and start using the farm which is what Jimbo is planning... 

You can settle down now soldier..

 

1 hour ago, iceman64 said:

The money was well spent, we got toughened up or would your rather have Petey and Brock end up like the Sedins and pummelled whenever? Your ok with that? 

[Amebushi]

So if we sign UFA players like:

Erikkson, Beagle, Sutter, Myers then JB sucks at cap management. If we let players walk that have an injury history or are “too small” then JB sucks at asset management. If he lets an aging vet go (Markstrom) then signs a cheaper UFA goalie JB should have got better value. No one forsaw Covid and a flat cap...can we at least wait until the roster is filled out before running from the falling sky?  Tampa Bay has some players to let go, trades have barely started. I admit Toffoli at that price makes me wish he was here but at least see what the rest of the roster looks like before crying about regression...this lousy GM got a team deeper than every other Canadian market is he “held accountable” for that too. Tell me how you would do it?  Eriksson Basrtchi and a first for McDavid with 50% retained?  This board makes me question things sometimes. I want to be clear before I get flamed. I don’t necessarily agree with every move made but hindsight is 20/20 and we haven’t seen who is filling in these holes with the newfound cap. I am optimistic that with a flat cap and an unknown future Benning may yet surprise with a positive move or two before the season starts. 

[Canuckfanforlife82]

34 minutes ago, Amebushi said:

So if we sign UFA players like:

Erikkson, Beagle, Sutter, Myers then JB sucks at cap management. If we let players walk that have an injury history or are “too small” then JB sucks at asset management. If he lets an aging vet go (Markstrom) then signs a cheaper UFA goalie JB should have got better value. No one forsaw Covid and a flat cap...can we at least wait until the roster is filled out before running from the falling sky?  Tampa Bay has some players to let go, trades have barely started. I admit Toffoli at that price makes me wish he was here but at least see what the rest of the roster looks like before crying about regression...this lousy GM got a team deeper than every other Canadian market is he “held accountable” for that too. Tell me how you would do it?  Eriksson Basrtchi and a first for McDavid with 50% retained?  This board makes me question things sometimes. I want to be clear before I get flamed. I don’t necessarily agree with every move made but hindsight is 20/20 and we haven’t seen who is filling in these holes with the newfound cap. I am optimistic that with a flat cap and an unknown future Benning may yet surprise with a positive move or two before the season starts. 

I have never liked the term on those free agent deals and it just seems like money not well spent especially when we are one of the highest paying teams in terms of bottom two lines. That is not a fact I like associated with this team. We pay 25 million for our bottom two lines.

 

Edited October 12, 2020 by Canuckfanforlife82

[Duodenum]

Guess the better GM:

 

Benning: 2nd and madden for 17 games of Toffoli

Sakic: 2nd and 2nd for like 400+ games of devon toews.

 

Just follow what the top GMs in the league do and you quickly see just how woeful Benning is other than drafting.

[Amebushi]

36 minutes ago, Canuckfanforlife82 said:

I have never liked the term on those free agent deals and it just seems like money not well spent especially when we are one of the highest paying teams in terms of bottom two lines. That is not a fact I like associated with this team. We pay 25 million for our bottom two lines.

 

So you want to have Marky signed long term?  How about Tanev?  It’s easy to sit here saying how bad moves are but you didn’t answer what you would do?  This post is about not being in on free agents so the ones we are in on you don’t like. Good UFA’s typically get overpaid. When the likes of Beagle were signed we were a bottom dweller and he was a Stanley cup champion. They don’t come cheap. Do you think it’s a coincidence that Bo, Petey, Quinn, Brock etc continue to impress?  Is it remotely possible that these overpaid vets may have filled some of the role of mentor?  I’m glad my job isn’t criticized by thousands of completely unqualified people. Not all moves work out and some work our well. If you want to be “in” on free agents as a team in lottery contention you have to have a lot of open cap space and usually give out more term than you want to. I for one am ok with the current wait and see approach instead of opening up the wallets. We have youth coming up that everyone complains is blocked by aging vets and now there are spots. I would like to hear your stance on my comments regarding waiting to see what JB does with these holes before complaining and calling for his head?

[Canuckfanforlife82]

6 minutes ago, Amebushi said:

So you want to have Marky signed long term?  How about Tanev?  It’s easy to sit here saying how bad moves are but you didn’t answer what you would do?  This post is about not being in on free agents so the ones we are in on you don’t like. Good UFA’s typically get overpaid. When the likes of Beagle were signed we were a bottom dweller and he was a Stanley cup champion. They don’t come cheap. Do you think it’s a coincidence that Bo, Petey, Quinn, Brock etc continue to impress?  Is it remotely possible that these overpaid vets may have filled some of the role of mentor?  I’m glad my job isn’t criticized by thousands of completely unqualified people. Not all moves work out and some work our well. If you want to be “in” on free agents as a team in lottery contention you have to have a lot of open cap space and usually give out more term than you want to. I for one am ok with the current wait and see approach instead of opening up the wallets. We have youth coming up that everyone complains is blocked by aging vets and now there are spots. I would like to hear your stance on my comments regarding waiting to see what JB does with these holes before complaining and calling for his head?

I would have committed to a rebuild not go in between. How exactly have the players they signed done anything to that young players couldnt have done? Their experience has amounted to much. I dont mind if they signed them to shirt term contracts but htey offered long term and now its hindered their ability to do anything,  to keep players like Toffoli that they lost for NOTHING! 

[Canuckfanforlife82]

14 minutes ago, Amebushi said:

So you want to have Marky signed long term?  How about Tanev?  It’s easy to sit here saying how bad moves are but you didn’t answer what you would do?  This post is about not being in on free agents so the ones we are in on you don’t like. Good UFA’s typically get overpaid. When the likes of Beagle were signed we were a bottom dweller and he was a Stanley cup champion. They don’t come cheap. Do you think it’s a coincidence that Bo, Petey, Quinn, Brock etc continue to impress?  Is it remotely possible that these overpaid vets may have filled some of the role of mentor?  I’m glad my job isn’t criticized by thousands of completely unqualified people. Not all moves work out and some work our well. If you want to be “in” on free agents as a team in lottery contention you have to have a lot of open cap space and usually give out more term than you want to. I for one am ok with the current wait and see approach instead of opening up the wallets. We have youth coming up that everyone complains is blocked by aging vets and now there are spots. I would like to hear your stance on my comments regarding waiting to see what JB does with these holes before complaining and calling for his head?

I would have committed to a rebuild not go in between. How exactly have the players they signed done anything to improve the club. Their experience hasn't amounted to much. I dont mind if they signed them to short term contracts but they offered long term and now its hindered their ability to do anything,  to keep players like Toffoli that they lost for NOTHING! You want to ignore terrible mistakes thats ok but taking one step forward and two steps back is not a recipe for success. Think of this Toffoli is getting less than Sutter. It's just terrible management. Do you think we should have the most expensive bottom two lines right now? Why do you think so many fans are angry right now.It's not one or two people here. There is a reason for frustration.

Edited October 12, 2020 by Canuckfanforlife82

[Coconuts]

3 hours ago, Canuckfanforlife82 said:

The biggest issue I have is that we throw away picks and prospects for nothing. That’s Madden and a second for nothing. When you aren’t elite you can’t afford to do that. Benning isn’t held accountable either so that’s a problem. It’s scary to think he might make more trades.

Thing is, we didn't throw away Madden and a 2nd for nothing. Our goal at the beginning of last season was to make the playoffs, we did that and he contributed. Now, one care argue whether we'd have made the playoffs or not had Covid never derailed the season but the bottom line is we did. Not only did we make the playoffs, we won two rounds and took one of the top teams in the west to game seven with a banged up lineup. Bo, Petey, Hughes, Boeser, and Demko all stepped up for us during the playoffs and that's absolutely huge. We can also speculate about whether Demko's perfomance helped make the Marky decision or not. He wouldn't have performed if we hadn't gotten in.

 

Now, if we hadn't made the playoffs it'd have been for nothing. 

3 hours ago, Schmautzie said:

If Benning wasn’t prepared to pay Toffoli $4.25 million when he traded for him then why did he make the trade to begin with?  He must have known that it would cost at least that much to re-sign him. This tells me that he was prepared to use Toffoli as a ten game rental all along and gave up significant assets to do so. I’ve always given Benning the benefit of the doubt until now but unless he has a surprise major trade in the works I’ve totally lost confidence in him.

In all fairness, the cap and forecasted cap were very different prior to Covid derailing the season than it is now. That cannot be understated. Had the cap raised we'd have had a bit more cap to play with and other teams would have more room to make deals and take on cap. But that's not how things went down, the cap is stagnant and the prices to dump cap likely reflect that. What Jim was hoping to be able to do when Toffoli was brought in and the position he was in going into free agency are two different things. 

 

I'd love to somehow dump Sutter and Eriksson and have been actively pursuing some of the guys that have been scooped up the last few days, but realistically if I were privy to the prices required to dump said players I'd probably think twice. We've still got Jake and Gaudette to sign, we need an RD to replace Tanev, we've got to keep Ferland's cap hit in mind, and keep the bonuses of EP and Hughes in mind as well. Management's in a tough spot.

 

Realistically we'll take a step back this season, but we've got roughly 20m coming off the books next season. Assume that EP and Hughes take bridge deals, we re-sign Edler to a smaller contract, and find someone to fill Sutter and Pearson's spots. There's also the chance we flip Eriksson with one year remaining, which shouldn't cost as much. But if not, his contract and a few others come off the books a year after with Boeser being the only big fish we need to re-sign.

 

We probably won't have a ton of flex for big time free agents the next couple offseasons unless management gets creative. 

Edited October 12, 2020 by Coconuts

[Canuckfanforlife82]

5 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

Thing is, we didn't throw away Madden and a 2nd for nothing. Our goal at the beginning of last season was to make the playoffs, we did that and he contributed. Now, one care argue whether we'd have made the playoffs or not had Covid never derailed the season but the bottom line is we did. Not only did we make the playoffs, we won two rounds and took one of the top teams in the west to game seven with a banged up lineup. Bo, Petey, Hughes, Boeser, and Demko all stepped up for us during the playoffs and that's absolutely huge. We can also speculate about whether Demko's perfomance helped make the Marky decision or not. He wouldn't have performed if we hadn't gotten in.

 

Now, if we hadn't made the playoffs it'd have been for nothing. 

In all fairness, the cap and forecasted cap were very different prior to Covid derailing the season than it is now. That cannot be understated. Had the cap raised we'd have had a bit more cap to play with and other teams would have more room to make deals and take on cap. But that's not how things went down, the cap is stagnant and the prices to dump cap likely reflect that. What Jim was hoping to be able to do when Toffoli was brought in and the position he was in going into free agency are two different things. 

 

I'd love to somehow dump Sutter and Eriksson and have been actively pursuing some of the guys that have been scooped up the last few days, but realistically if I were privy to the prices required to dump said players I'd probably think twice. We've still got Jake and Gaudette to sign, we need an RD to replace Tanev, we've got to keep Ferland's cap hit in mind, and keep the bonuses of EP and Hughes in mind as well. Management's in a tough spot.

 

Realistically we'll take a step back this season, but we've got roughly 20m coming off the books next season. Assume that EP and Hughes take bridge deals, we re-sign Edler to a smaller contract, and find someone to fill Sutter and Pearson's spots. There's also the chance we flip Eriksson with one year remaining, which shouldn't cost as much. But if not, his contract and a few others come off the books a year after with Boeser being the only big fish we need to re-sign.

 

We probably won't have a ton of flex for big time free agents the next couple offseasons unless management gets creative. 

So your saying next year doesn't really matter? What does what has happened in free agency say to Pettersson and Hughes for next year? you think they see next year as a regression year? I just think it sends the wrong message to fans and players.

[coolboarder]

I am not truly worried about free agents coming here.  If they truly wanted to come here, they would have signed for slightly below average for one year deal or a long term.  Benning won't budge knowing that Petterson and Hughes will get its hefty payday and we do not want to give other teams with space to make an offer sheet and we are unable to match.  So it's better to stay put and wait until a free agent that wants to come here for one year deal will be welcome to play with Petterson in hoping for a huge paycheck down the road.  Petterson could put in points per game easily  with other talented players.  If I'm a free agent and I'm not doing well so far, I would be looking for a chance to play with Petterson or McDavid for a huge paycheck down the road.  I recalled Carter played with Sedin and he got a huge paycheck and was a bust for the Blue Jackets.

[Schmautzie]

Even with a stagnant cap Toffoli is a bargain at 4.25 million per season. Top six wingers in their twenties who want to play here are just too valuable to give up. If they had signed Markstrom and/or Tanev then I would understand not having the cash available but not now.

[Coconuts]

11 minutes ago, Canuckfanforlife82 said:

So your saying next year doesn't really matter? What does what has happened in free agency say to Pettersson and Hughes for next year? you think they see next year as a regression year? I just think it sends the wrong message to fans and players.

Of course next season matters, but that fact alone doesn't change our cap reality. And yes, there is a chance we take a step back for a year, same thing happened to Colorado a few years back after making the playoffs. Now look at them. Taking a step back for a season while we ride out some of cap complications doesn't mean there isn't still a bright future to look forward to. And who knows, our youth might just surprise. Still lots of offseason to go as well, we're literally four days into free agency.

 

Hughes and Pettersson aren't the GM, I'm sure they realize it's not an easy job. No, I doubt our guys are happy to see guys go but I'm sure they also understand that it's part of the business. That's just how hockey is. 

 

The wrong message? Covid derailed the season and killed any cap growth. Hell, hockey related revenue ain't likely to recover from this for a while. There's still an entire offseason to try and improve the team, and we've got youth in the system who will likely get a shot at making the team and contributing to that growth. Guys leaving is an opportunity for others to take those spots. Juolevi and Lind were along for the playoff ride so they may make the team, Demko will see a larger role, Virtanen likely will too. Podz should be here the season after, maybe Tram too. Who knows when they take a look at Hoglander or our other prospects. These guys are, or are trying to be, professional hockey players. The message will likely be the same, train hard and come to camp ready. 

 

We've ridden out a bunch of tough years leading up to this one, one year where maybe we aren't able to improve the team as much as we'd like via free agency or trade isn't the end of the world. If some fans wanna lose their head, so be it, there's always gonna be a portion of the fanbase that does that regardless. 

Edited October 12, 2020 by Coconuts

[Laheys Liquor]

56 minutes ago, Duodenum said:

Guess the better GM:

 

Benning: 2nd and madden for 17 games of Toffoli

Sakic: 2nd and 2nd for like 400+ games of devon toews.

 

Just follow what the top GMs in the league do and you quickly see just how woeful Benning is other than drafting.

Yeah. The last thing Benning should be doing is trading our draft positions, unless its to acquire a stud/steal like JT Miller on a great contract. 

His drafting is his best strength by a wide margin and I think other GM's know this too, that's why we don't see pretty much any picks coming our way. 

The Toffoli trade was a mis-step but thankfully he hasn't made other trades to get rental players. Hopefully next year he learned from his mistake. A 2nd rounder this 2020 draft would of been nice.

[Guest]

Here's a list of some UFAs for next summer:  

 

Ryan Nugent-Hopkins 

Dougie Hamilton 

Gabriel Landeskog 

Jaden Schwartz 

Brendan Gallagher 

Phillip Danault 

Jeff Petry 

Joel Armia 

Matt Calvert 

Nick Foligno 

Marcus Foligno 

David Savard  

Taylor Hall 

Tyson Barrie 

Brandon Montour 

Adam Lowry 

Jamie Oleksiak 

 

You also have the odd perennial all-star such as Ovechkin, Getzlaf, Krejci, Tuukka Rask, Peka Rinne, etc...  

 

So let's not panic that we get a year where our young guys have a chance to earn a roster spot.