[Discussion] Moving on from Jim Benning

[AV.]

For last half decade or so, you can probably count one good thing for every 5 or 6 bad things when it comes to Jim Benning.  And sure, being a general manager is harder than looks.  Hindsight is 20/20 and things don't always go to plan the way you envisioned (looking at you, Jake Virtanen), but most of why we are in the mess we are in is due to decisions made by this management.  Numerous anchor contracts given to bottom six/bottom pairing players, shipping out assets for marginal improvements, countless examples of mismanagement when it comes to the asset value of players, handing out movement protection in virtually every deal, etc.

 

With this I ask:  what's stopping us from wanting to do better?  Why persist with somebody who gets praised once in a blue moon and usually for doing the bare minimum, such as not matching horrible contracts or saying no to a trade that would be a huge ripoff otherwise?

 

It doesn't matter if we pull out some rabbit from out of our hat (i.e Pietrangelo signing), this off-season is demonstrating -  now, more than ever - that there is a clear pattern when it comes to failures and steps backward.  After a pretty fortuitous playoff run in the first place, it doesn't look like that will be the case again for this year and maybe into next year.  A hockey team with 1 playoff appearance in 5 seasons shouldn't already be in a position where they may miss the playoffs because of reasons related to their front office's inability to build its team.

 

I think there are a lot of decent minds in hockey, both internal (Chris Gear) and external (you can do your own research).  I think it's time we remove ourselves from Mr. Benning and go into a different direction

 

But that's just my view.  For the Benning supporters and the "Benning bros", what does your saviour offer that other people in the NHL don't?

[wloutet]

2 minutes ago, Alain Vigneault said:

you can probably count one good thing for every 5 or 6 bad things when it comes to Jim Benning

I would like to see your statistics on this. Remember that 58% of all statistics are just made up!

[King Heffy]

[Coconuts]

[Dazzle]

12 minutes ago, Alain Vigneault said:

For last half decade or so, you can probably count one good thing for every 5 or 6 bad things when it comes to Jim Benning.  And sure, being a general manager is harder than looks.  Hindsight is 20/20 and things don't always go to plan the way you envisioned (looking at you, Jake Virtanen), but most of why we are in the mess we are in is due to decisions made by this management.  Numerous anchor contracts given to bottom six/bottom pairing players, shipping out assets for marginal improvements, countless examples of mismanagement when it comes to the asset value of players, handing out movement protection in virtually every deal, etc.

 

With this I ask:  what's stopping us from wanting to do better?  Why persist with somebody who gets praised once in a blue moon and usually for doing the bare minimum, such as not matching horrible contracts or saying no to a trade that would be a huge ripoff otherwise?

 

It doesn't matter if we pull out some rabbit from out of our hat (i.e Pietrangelo signing), this off-season is demonstrating -  now, more than ever - that there is a clear pattern when it comes to failures and steps backward.  After a pretty fortuitous playoff run in the first place, it doesn't look like that will be the case again for this year and maybe into next year.  A hockey team with 1 playoff appearance in 5 seasons shouldn't already be in a position where they may miss the playoffs because of reasons related to their front office's inability to build its team.

 

I think there are a lot of decent minds in hockey, both internal (Chris Gear) and external (you can do your own research).  I think it's time we remove ourselves from Mr. Benning and go into a different direction

 

But that's just my view.  For the Benning supporters and the "Benning bros", what does your saviour offer that other people in the NHL don't?

I'm curious as to why you pretend to have an unbiased discussion by saying stuff like "Hindsight is 20/20 and things don't always go to plan..."

 

What you're saying here has already been discussed to death in the many threads inside the trade section ALONE. Did this thread REALLY need to be made?

 

You ask this question - what's stopping us from wanting to do better? Why is the onus on the readers to come up with the examples in YOUR thread? Why didn't you come up with a person you had in mind for GM?

 

A thread that is purely anti-Benning with nothing else to add other than "the team is in a bad situation because of bad contracts". I'm calling it for what it is. Benning has made mistakes, like any GM, and there's been so shortage of discussion of it that this thread is really redundant. You are adding nothing new here at all.

Edited October 12, 2020 by Dazzle

[KirkSave]

Knee Jerk reactions...We just overahcieved and had a great playoffs which nobody would have forecasted, just as nobody saw covid coming. We have an awesome young core (Bo, Petey, Hughes, Boeser). The sky is not falling. We have the cornerstones at all key areas of the ice and as Demko continues to emerge, we will be happy not to have linked ourselves to Marky for 6 years, even though is a great goalie and will help Calgary there is no doubt.

 

Like many fans, I admit the deals he gave our bottom 6 player is hurting us now but in a couple season those players will be gone and the youth will start to take over just as Petey and Quinn start to hit that superstar status. We are arguably heading into the most exciting time in our history. All this doom and gloom is comical. JB has a long term plan and vision for this team and I for one am glad he is at the helm.

[canuckspride]

21 minutes ago, wloutet said:

I would like to see your statistics on this. Remember that 58% of all statistics are just made up!

It is actually 47%.

[Shekky]

12 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

I'm curious as to why you pretend to have an unbiased discussion by saying stuff like "Hindsight is 20/20 and things don't always go to plan..."

 

What you've talked about has already been talked in the million threads for each of the trade threads. Did this thread REALLY need to be made?

 

You ask this question - what's stopping us from wanting to do better? Why is the onus on the readers to come up with the examples in YOUR thread? Why didn't you come up with a person you had in mind for GM?

 

A thread that is purely anti-Benning with nothing else to add other than "the team is in a bad situation because of bad contracts". I'm calling it for what it is. Benning has made mistakes, like any GM, which has ALREADY been talked about in the other threads.

I agree with you there is a bunch of other threads with nearly the exact same message about Benning. Everyone is on this Anti-Benning kick these days just because he let a few guys walk makes no sense to me he hasn't done much yet to address the current situation but the next season isn't until possibly January? Plenty of time to get something done. I personally love it when he takes the time to get something done. Fact is this team proved everyone wrong when they went to game 7 against a stacked VGK team and beat the defending Stanley Cup champs, Benning to me has earned his next contract extension. I am excited to see how he can improve the defence.

Edited October 12, 2020 by Shekky

[Chickenspear]

21 minutes ago, Alain Vigneault said:

For last half decade or so, you can probably count one good thing for every 5 or 6 bad things when it comes to Jim Benning.  And sure, being a general manager is harder than looks.  Hindsight is 20/20 and things don't always go to plan the way you envisioned (looking at you, Jake Virtanen), but most of why we are in the mess we are in is due to decisions made by this management.  Numerous anchor contracts given to bottom six/bottom pairing players, shipping out assets for marginal improvements, countless examples of mismanagement when it comes to the asset value of players, handing out movement protection in virtually every deal, etc.

 

With this I ask:  what's stopping us from wanting to do better?  Why persist with somebody who gets praised once in a blue moon and usually for doing the bare minimum, such as not matching horrible contracts or saying no to a trade that would be a huge ripoff otherwise?

 

It doesn't matter if we pull out some rabbit from out of our hat (i.e Pietrangelo signing), this off-season is demonstrating -  now, more than ever - that there is a clear pattern when it comes to failures and steps backward.  After a pretty fortuitous playoff run in the first place, it doesn't look like that will be the case again for this year and maybe into next year.  A hockey team with 1 playoff appearance in 5 seasons shouldn't already be in a position where they may miss the playoffs because of reasons related to their front office's inability to build its team.

 

I think there are a lot of decent minds in hockey, both internal (Chris Gear) and external (you can do your own research).  I think it's time we remove ourselves from Mr. Benning and go into a different direction

 

But that's just my view.  For the Benning supporters and the "Benning bros", what does your saviour offer that other people in the NHL don't?

[CallAfterLife]

What can the Canucks learn from the 2020 Stanley Cup champion Lightning?

 

The makeup of the Lightning’s key decision makers has been relatively static, from Cooper to BriseBois — who has been with the team since 2010 — to BriseBois’ three assistant general managers, including amateur scouting guru Al Murray, who have all been with the organization in some capacity for a minimum of eight years. Through disappointment, through failure, they’ve had a plan and they’ve stuck with it.

[CRAZY_4_NAZZY]

Its only been 4 days into the offseason, relax, success is not built within a few days.  

 

There is still like 80 days left in the offseason, still lots of time to make moves and rectify whatever this situation is. If this team is still looking the same in 80 days then fine, its fair to criticize, but considering that we don't even know what the final product is of this team for the next season its kinda dumb to freak out.

[AV.]

23 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

I'm curious as to why you pretend to have an unbiased discussion by saying stuff like "Hindsight is 20/20 and things don't always go to plan..."

 

What you're saying here has already been discussed to death in the many threads inside the trade section ALONE. Did this thread REALLY need to be made?

 

You ask this question - what's stopping us from wanting to do better? Why is the onus on the readers to come up with the examples in YOUR thread? Why didn't you come up with a person you had in mind for GM?

 

A thread that is purely anti-Benning with nothing else to add other than "the team is in a bad situation because of bad contracts". I'm calling it for what it is. Benning has made mistakes, like any GM, and there's been so shortage of discussion of it that this thread is really redundant. You are adding nothing new here at all.

Bolded:  I can give the benefit of the doubt on certain things, such as a pandemic hitting or something more hockey-related such an unexpected Luongo retirement hindering cap-space.  I can also present my position (i.e Benning should be fired) and touch on a list of reasons to provide a rationale for why I'm interested in moving on.  Both of these things are not mutually exclusive and I'm not sure why you're trying to insinuate that they are.

 

Underlined:  I did?  Chris Gear. 

 

Also, the onus is on the reader because its a discussion and that's how discussions work, no?  So many of you peddle this rhetoric that Benning isn't this bad GM and its so unfair to be against him but when presented the opportunity to defend him, but nobody ever actually says what he's good at or why he's positive for this team beyond baseless statements like "he drafted Petey/he drafted Hughes" like as if picking in the top 10 and not screwing up is a good thing, failing to even touch upon that he struck out on Jake and is at risk of striking out on Juolevi in the same position.  My position on this matter is that due to many of his mistakes (ones that I briefly outlined in my first paragraph), there are probably candidates out there who may not make these same types of mistakes and it's worth turning our attention towards them to better steer our team into a stable direction.

[ken kaniff]

There’s no reasoning with the pro Benning crowd. Apparently this is exactly how you build a team by overpaying on borderline NHL players and letting our actual assets walk in FA with very reasonable contracts. 
 

This is the highest level hockey in the world, there is no room for “learning on the job”. He has made some good moves but overall I’d say the negatives outnumber (NOT OUTWEIGHT) the pros.
 

I don’t hate Benning, I feel he has made some good moves and certainly hasn’t been as bad as some other GMs but I don’t want a GM that just isn’t as bad as others. I want a GM that’s good and can build a team without the many, many setback JB has put upon himself. 
 

This is why I called Benning supporters just like Trump supporters. You won’t get any sort of coherent response from many of the Benning supporters. Just memes because it’s easy. I don’t think they’re stupid for supporting Benning, we’re definitely on the right track but I think we can get to the end goal a lot quicker and smoother with a better GM. 

[Tystick]

A bit of an overreaction. 

Yeah it sucks we lost our UFA's but Benning obviously has something in the works behind the scenes.

It must good enough to lose Tanev, Marky, and Tofu to free agency.

Let's wait and see what happens.

[-AJ-]

So far, I don't like a lot of his moves, but it would be a premature overreaction to fire him now without even seeing how things work out. If the teams misses the playoffs this upcoming season, we can start having that discussion.

[Tinky-Winky]

4 minutes ago, CRAZY_4_NAZZY said:

Its only been 4 days into the offseason, relax, success is not built within a few days.  

 

There is still like 80 days left in the offseason, still lots of time to make moves and rectify whatever this situation is. If this team is still looking the same in 80 days then fine, its fair to criticize, but considering that we don't even know what the final product is of this team for the next season its kinda dumb to freak out.

i really doubt he gonna make any moves, i think hes pretty set on current roster ( and basically gonna let the kids play ) so if thats true we a few years away from competing into the playoffs  ...or we wouldn't of lost TT for so little etc. 

[Dazzle]

1 minute ago, Alain Vigneault said:

Bolded:  I can give the benefit of the doubt on certain things, such as a pandemic hitting or something more hockey-related such an unexpected Luongo retirement hindering cap-space.  I can also present my position (i.e Benning should be fired) and touch on a list of reasons to provide a rationale for why I'm interested in moving on.  Both of these things are not mutually exclusive and I'm not sure why you're trying to insinuate that they are.

 

Underlined:  I did?  Chris Gear. 

 

Also, the onus is on the reader because its a discussion and that's how discussions work, no?  So many of you peddle this rhetoric that Benning isn't this bad GM and its so unfair to be against him but when presented the opportunity to defend him, but nobody ever actually says what he's good at or why he's positive for this team beyond baseless statements like "he drafted Petey/he drafted Hughes" like as if picking in the top 10 and not screwing up is a good thing, failing to even touch upon that he struck out on Jake and is at risk of striking out on Juolevi in the same position.  My position on this matter is that due to many of his mistakes (ones that I briefly outlined in my first paragraph), there are probably candidates out there who may not make these same types of mistakes and it's worth turning our attention towards them to better steer our team into a stable direction.

I was waiting for you to say Chris Gear. Are you freaking kidding me? He's been newly promoted an AGM experience, so he has less experience than most other GMs OR AGMs. And you want this guy to be GM? LOL.

 

No, the onus is on the thread maker to come up with better solutions than Chris freaking Gear. This thread reeks laziness.

Edited October 12, 2020 by Dazzle

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, Tystick said:

A bit of an overreaction. 

Yeah it sucks we lost our UFA's but Benning obviously has something in the works behind the scenes.

It must good enough to lose Tanev, Marky, and Tofu to free agency.

Let's wait and see what happens.

Marky was going to be priced and NMC out of our range anyway. IMO he did the right thing not going 6x6 with Marky. 

 

Tanev would have been nice for 2 years.

 

I like TT and that would have been nice to hang on to for sure. 

 

Its too early to hit the $&!# panic train some have jumped on, lets see what the week brings now that teams are getting over the cap and others like St Loius or Vegas really need a trade partner. 

[AV.]

3 minutes ago, CallAfterLife said:

What can the Canucks learn from the 2020 Stanley Cup champion Lightning?

 

The makeup of the Lightning’s key decision makers has been relatively static, from Cooper to BriseBois — who has been with the team since 2010 — to BriseBois’ three assistant general managers, including amateur scouting guru Al Murray, who have all been with the organization in some capacity for a minimum of eight years. Through disappointment, through failure, they’ve had a plan and they’ve stuck with it.

Since 2010, the Lightning have made the post-season 7 times, including 5 conference finals appearances and 2 Stanley Cup finals.

 

Since 2015 (Benning's first season), the Canucks have made the playoffs 2 times and have not progressed past the 2nd round.  In the next five years, Jim Benning-led teams will have to make the conference finals every season to even match this half this stat.

[-AJ-]

Just now, Alain Vigneault said:

Since 2010, the Lightning have made the post-season 7 times, including 5 conference finals appearances and 2 Stanley Cup finals.

 

Since 2015 (Benning's first season), the Canucks have made the playoffs 2 times and have not progressed past the 2nd round.  In the next five years, Jim Benning-led teams will have to make the conference finals every season to even match this half this stat.

The 2010 Lightning also had Stamkos and Hedman already on the team.

 

For a more fair comparison, try judging Benning by starting after Petey and Hughes joined.