[Discussion] Moving on from Jim Benning

[AV.]

4 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

Lmfao... I'm honestly glad you're typing this. I really am. You're getting so frustrated that you don't even make sense anymore, even though you think you do.

He's saying that Myers made 5.5M which is why he needed to earn more.  I gave an example as to why that line of thinking makes no sense.

[Dazzle]

Just now, Alain Vigneault said:

Lol.

 

Benning has been the GM of the team since 2014.  If his defence in 2020 sucks, that's on him, not Gillis.

Oh, but somehow Gillis is absolved of any responsibility for not developing players, but Benning is the one who pays the bill?

 

Right. Still haven't heard any rebuttals to my points btw.

 

Just now, Petey_BOI said:

@dazzle

 

lets leave this troll along , hes just arguing for arguings sake. he lies and cannot make a post that makes any sense. he is literally dumbing us down, lets leave him alone.

agree?

I think we've more than proven our point that @Alain Vigneault has lost his mind and his argument.

[Dazzle]

Just now, Alain Vigneault said:

He's saying that Myers made 5.5M which is why he needed to earn more.  I gave an example as to why that line of thinking makes no sense.

So what do you think Myers should have gone for then in the market?

 

You have no clue about the concept of supply and demand, which means the inflation of value. Being a RHD when there aren't many in the market will be a factor in adjustment of prices. Maybe you should learn about it instead of typing what you think you know.

[AV.]

2 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

Oh, but somehow Gillis is absolved of any responsibility for not developing players, but Benning is the one who pays the bill?

 

Right. Still haven't heard any rebuttals to my points btw.

 

I think we've more than proven our point that @Alain Vigneault has lost his mind and his argument.

What's the point of this comment?  If in 6 years of being on the job you can't meet certain needs, that's on you, not your predecessor.

 

Imagine if I started blaming Nonis and Burke for Gillis's failures in making the playoffs in 2014?  Imagine how foolish that would be.

 

1 minute ago, Dazzle said:

So what do you think Myers should have gone for then in the market?

 

You have no clue about the concept of supply and demand, which means the inflation of value. Being a RHD when there aren't many in the market will be a factor in adjustment of prices. Maybe you should learn about it instead of typing what you think you know.

Lol.

 

Trust me when I say this but nobody, and I mean nobody, was lining up to sign Tyler Myers to the contract he was signed to.  Just like nobody beyond Florida was lining up to sign Bobrovsky to a 7x10M.

 

This isn't about supply and demand.  This is about recognizing about not overpaying for average players.

[Dazzle]

Just now, Alain Vigneault said:

What's the point of this comment?  If in 6 years of being on the job you can't meet certain needs, that's on you, not your predecessor.

 

Imagine if I started blaming Nonis and Burke for Gillis's failures in making the playoffs in 2014?  Imagine how foolish that would be.

 

Lol.

 

Trust me when I say this but nobody, and I mean nobody, was lining up to sign Tyler Myers to the contract he was signed to.  Just like nobody beyond Florida was lining up to sign Bobrovsky to a 7x10M.

 

This isn't about supply and demand.  This is about recognizing about not overpaying for average players.

Yeah, you don't know what you're talking about.

 

The reason why prices are so inflated is due to the bidding process of teams. In other words, no team will want to pay more than another - unless there's competition.

 

Think of it this way, when you sell your apartment/house/townhouse, you may get competing offers. If people really like your place, they may pay more to get you to sell it to them instead.

 

The fact that you don't understand such a simple concept is why you shouldn't be mouthing off like you're doing. What an embarrassment.

[AV.]

14 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

It's okay. We can see his true colours here when he knows he's losing. What a baby.

Beyond the one comment I made to you (one that you insist made you laugh and didn't hurt you), I haven't been personal at all.

 

In addition to this quote, you've told me to"log off", you're saying I'm losing my mind, etc.  You're teetering towards personal comments and that's not a good look.

 

I think you need calm down here before you say something you might regret.  Just looking out, bud.

[AV.]

1 minute ago, Dazzle said:

Yeah, you don't know what you're talking about.

 

The reason why prices are so inflated is due to the bidding process of teams. In other words, no team will want to pay more than another - unless there's competition.

 

Think of it this way, when you sell your apartment/house/townhouse, you may get competing offers. If people really like your place, they may pay more to get you to sell it to them instead.

 

The fact that you don't understand such a simple concept is why you shouldn't be mouthing off like you're doing. What an embarrassment.

Ok, if you would like to believe that there was bidding war for Myers, then by all means.

[King Heffy]

Just now, Alain Vigneault said:

Ok, if you would like to believe that there was bidding war for Myers, then by all means.

He was the best available UFA defenseman.  If you don't think there was a demand for him, I can't help you.

[AV.]

Just now, King Heffy said:

He was the best available UFA defenseman.  If you don't think there was a demand for him, I can't help you.

Poor free-agent defencemen crop then.

 

You don't overpay just because there's no other options.

[Dazzle]

Just now, Alain Vigneault said:

Ok, if you would like to believe that there was bidding war for Myers, then by all means.

Mmhmm. The reported speculation for Myers was somewhere between 7 and 8 million. SO, if we are to believe that, Myers did leave money on the table. After all, his wife lives in Kelowna. He was one of the top free agents that year, and there's no dispute about that. It's just the price that's so contentious.

[Dazzle]

Just now, Alain Vigneault said:

Poor free-agent defencemen crop then.

 

You don't overpay just because there's no other options.

Some people said the same thing about Eriksson, Sorry to say.

[AV.]

Just now, Dazzle said:

Mmhmm. The reported speculation for Myers was somewhere between 7 and 8 million. SO, if we are to believe that, Myers did leave money on the table. After all, his wife lives in Kelowna. He was one of the top free agents that year, and there's no dispute about that. It's just the price that's so contentious.

I saw that report too.

 

Nobody was giving him 7-8M dollars and only Vancouver was willing to give 6M

[AV.]

Just now, Dazzle said:

Some people said the same thing about Eriksson, Sorry to say.

Eriksson was in a crop with Okposo, Ladd, Lucic, Backes, all legit top 6 forwards.  It's kind of funny how they all fell off a cliff together. 

 

Myers was with...maybe Stralman?  Was Shattenkirk bought out at that point?  Idk.

[Dazzle]

Just now, Alain Vigneault said:

I saw that report too.

 

Nobody was giving him 7-8M dollars and only Vancouver was willing to give 6M

Are you his agent? Suddenly you know about this info but don't understand the bidding process. LOL.

 

Do you even know why he chose to come here? His wife lives here, and he went through a health scare with his son. He just wants to be close to home.

 

There's zero proof that you knew that other teams didn't offer him 6M or more. He could've taken more going elsewhere. Or maybe 6M. Either way, he chose here.

Edited October 19, 2020 by Dazzle

[-DLC-]

2 minutes ago, Alain Vigneault said:

I saw that report too.

 

Nobody was giving him 7-8M dollars and only Vancouver was willing to give 6M

You're speaking for others now?  Don't do that.  Rumour was that he was going to fetch 7-8 and generally people in the business circulating the speculation around these things know more than the average Joes out here do.

 

You do end up overpaying if there's slim pickings and everyone's looking for the same things.  It's no secret.

[-DLC-]

So let's quit crying over the past and spilled milk for a minute because what's done is done.

 

How do you feel about this team in the here and now?  How do you feel about the future of this team?  Are you excited about them?  More so than 6 years ago?  

 

Straight answers without a bunch of fluff thrown in as a smokescreen.

[AV.]

3 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

Are you his agent? Suddenly you know about this info but don't understand the bidding process. LOL.

 

Do you even know why he chose to come here? His wife lives here, and he went through a health scare with his son. He just wants to be close to home.

 

There's zero proof that you knew that other teams didn't offer him 6M or more. He could've taken more going elsewhere. Or maybe 6M. Either way, he chose here.

 

1 minute ago, debluvscanucks said:

You're speaking for others now?  Don't do that.  Rumour was that he was going to fetch 7-8 and generally people in the business circulating the speculation around these things know more than the average Joes out here do.

 

You do end up overpaying if there's slim pickings and everyone's looking for the same things.  It's no secret.

I think it's a matter of reading in between the lines.

 

I'll give an example from this off-season.  VAN signs Holtby, word comes out that he took less than what was offered from EDM.  A day later, EDM signs Barrie, word comes out that he took less than what was offered from VAN or (other teams).  Did both players really leave more money on the table or did the teams just leak that info to make it seem like they did a good job to appease fans? This is rhetorical because we can't say for certain.

 

Anyways, if you really believe that Myers is worth 6x6M, all power to you.  I don't think he is and for the role he plays (middle-pairing/bottom-pairing, I'm not sure but he played a lot with Fantenburg who I'd say is a bottom-pairing guy), you could probably find a comparable player for less term and dollars.

[Dazzle]

Just now, Alain Vigneault said:

 

I think it's a matter of reading in between the lines.

 

I'll give an example from this off-season.  VAN signs Holtby, word comes out that he took less than what was offered from EDM.  A day later, EDM signs Barrie, word comes out that he took less than what was offered from VAN or (other teams).  Did both players really leave more money on the table or did the teams just leak that info to make it seem like they did a good job to appease fans? This is rhetorical because we can't say for certain.

 

Anyways, if you really believe that Myers is worth 6x6M, all power to you.  I don't think he is and for the role he plays (middle-pairing/bottom-pairing, I'm not sure but he played a lot with Fantenburg who I'd say is a bottom-pairing guy), you could probably find a comparable player for less term and dollars.

It's not up to you to think what he's worth. It's up to the other teams to determine it. His agent talked it over with Myers, and they decided that this offer was the best one. At no point do you have the legitimacy to say that "no other teams offered him 6M".

[AV.]

Just now, Alain Vigneault said:

 

I think it's a matter of reading in between the lines.

 

I'll give an example from this off-season.  VAN signs Holtby, word comes out that he took less than what was offered from EDM.  A day later, EDM signs Barrie, word comes out that he took less than what was offered from VAN or (other teams).  Did both players really leave more money on the table or did the teams just leak that info to make it seem like they did a good job to appease fans? This is rhetorical because we can't say for certain.

 

Anyways, if you really believe that Myers is worth 6x6M, all power to you.  I don't think he is and for the role he plays (middle-pairing/bottom-pairing, I'm not sure but he played a lot with Fantenburg who I'd say is a bottom-pairing guy), you could probably find a comparable player for less term and dollars.

I forgot to add the most important part:

 

I don't think that other teams saw Myers as a 6x6M defenceman either.  Sometimes, yes, you overpay because that's the price to pay in FA, I just don't believe that Myers was one of those guys in this instance.  Somebody like Artemi Panarin on the other hand, I could see a bidding war happening on.

[Dazzle]

5 minutes ago, Alain Vigneault said:

I forgot to add the most important part:

 

I don't think that other teams saw Myers as a 6x6M defenceman either.  Sometimes, yes, you overpay because that's the price to pay in FA, I just don't believe that Myers was one of those guys in this instance.  Somebody like Artemi Panarin on the other hand, I could see a bidding war happening on.

So why do you think Panarin got up to 10M? Do you think NY would just offer this as their first offer? No. The idea of negotiation is to spend as LITTLE as possible.

 

Evidently, you are right, there was a bidding war. It probably went from 8.5 to 9 and so forth. This is exactly the same for Myers, being a FA and all. So I think you answered your own question. There WAS a bid for Myers. Why else was the price set at 6 when the speculation was 7-8?  After all, testing free agency is to see what the market dictates you are worth.

 

Ultimately, it really doesn't matter what you think you are worth. It's what others put the worth on you. After looking at his stats, Panarin has 95 pts. He's paid super star money, so it looks like he earned his paycheck, even if it's super expensive.

Edited October 19, 2020 by Dazzle