2021 NHL Entry Draft

[Marv-the-wet-bandit]

2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Would be awesome to hit another home run in round two like with Hogs.  

Exactly. We need these picks. Hoglander should have been a first rounder without a doubt, especially with hindsight. I’m a massive fan of his 

[Marv-the-wet-bandit]

1 minute ago, VancouverHabitant said:

I hear you there but if someone like Eklund drops to 6 and Benning thinks he’s much much better then someone we can get at 9, then I’d be okay with it.  
 

I hear you on having more bullets and how the top 8-9 prospects seem similar to us fans. 

I love Eklund, but I’m not moving our 2nd to get him over a Guenther, Johnson, Lysell, Edvinsson or whoever it is JB likes. If we didn’t trade picks for Vey and Baertschi and Pedan and the likes then maybe we’d be in an even better position now. Benning as a whole drafts really well, make as many picks as possible 

[King Heffy]

24 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

Yeah. Me too. We don't need anymore offensive dman, imo. We need more grit, toughness and stay at home defense. 

 

The backend needs to be a little more evened out. Look at Colorado, they had all that firepower, but couldn't even get passed Vegas. 

 

Even Colorado had Graves, Timmins, Toews.  Kadri being suspended hurt them badly.  You need good shutdown guys to win.

[Bertuzzipunch]

4 hours ago, HighOnHockey said:

Oy. My man. You're old enough to remember the Bertuzzi incident but you still think NHL teams make decisions at the draft based on positional need? How does that happen? You've been watching hockey for a while but never paid much attention to the draft?

Oh okay no way a team would ever ever draft by a position of need ever. Never has happened mmmk

[Fanuck]

22 minutes ago, Marv-the-wet-bandit said:

 Benning as a whole drafts really well, make as many picks as possible 

Yes, yes he does.  Which makes it even more perplexing why he's utterly inept at acquiring more picks in the first place. 

[N4ZZY]

40 minutes ago, Sp3nny said:

Why does everyone seem to think you need to be big and tough to be good in the playoffs? Can we please look at the top 20 playoff scorers in the last 5 years and tell me where all the big tough guys are?

 

2021: Landeskog?

2020: Jamie Benn

2019: Not sure there is one?

2018: Ovie, Wheeler

2017: Malkin, Getzlaf, Draisaitl

2016: Thornton, Malkin, Backes

 

Yes, it helps playing a tough, strong game, and size isn't usually frowned upon in the playoffs. But the last 5+ years top 20 is dominated by average sized skill players that know how to show up when its needed. We can't just say these young guys with size will perform in big games over the smaller guys. Thornton is essentially built for the playoffs, and everyone dogs him cause he doesn't have a lot of success. Anyone taking him over 5'11 Kucherov or 5'8 Point?

I'll take 5'8 Point and 5'11 Kucherov please.

 

[Marv-the-wet-bandit]

1 minute ago, Fanuck said:

Yes, yes he does.  Which makes it even more perplexing why he's utterly inept at acquiring more picks in the first place. 

I completely agree. That’s been very frustrating. And it’s not that he doesn’t acquire picks, it’s that he’s traded so many away

[N4ZZY]

2 minutes ago, Fanuck said:

Yes, yes he does.  Which makes it even more perplexing why he's utterly inept at acquiring more picks in the first place. 

I think it's pressure from ownership to be competitive as quickly as they can. 

 

His past trades would make this pretty clear. He traded away a lot of 2nd round picks for Bartschi, Vey, etc. so that those players could help now. Many of those players aren't even in the league anymore. 

 

[Guest]

At the time when we acquired Baerchi, Granlund and Vey, we were ranked dead last (30th at the time) in our prospects and youth.  We had a giant void in players aged 19 to 25 so it was an attempt to bridge that gap.  
 

If you consider that something like 1 in 4 2nd rounders become NHL players, then you can justify those moves.  
 

I think some of you are guilty of looking at the best case scenario when it comes to 2nd round picks and ignoring the other 75% of picks that sizzle out in the minors. 

[Marv-the-wet-bandit]

6 minutes ago, VancouverHabitant said:

At the time when we acquired Baerchi, Granlund and Vey, we were ranked dead last (30th at the time) in our prospects and youth.  We had a giant void in players aged 19 to 25 so it was an attempt to bridge that gap.  
 

If you consider that something like 1 in 4 2nd rounders become NHL players, then you can justify those moves.  
 

I think some of you are guilty of looking at the best case scenario when it comes to 2nd round picks and ignoring the other 75% of picks that sizzle out in the minors. 

Look at all the 2nd round picks JB has made. Demko, Lind, Gadjovich, Woo and Hoglander. Our starting goalie, a legit top 6 forward, a D prospect that looks like he’ll play whether bottom pairing or middle pairing we don’t know yet and 2 forwards that I think most of Canucks nation think are good prospects with potential to be everyday NHLers. I’ll take that over trying to fill a temporary gap

[HighOnHockey]

55 minutes ago, Sp3nny said:

Why does everyone seem to think you need to be big and tough to be good in the playoffs? Can we please look at the top 20 playoff scorers in the last 5 years and tell me where all the big tough guys are?

 

2021: Landeskog?

2020: Jamie Benn

2019: Not sure there is one?

2018: Ovie, Wheeler

2017: Malkin, Getzlaf, Draisaitl

2016: Thornton, Malkin, Backes

 

Yes, it helps playing a tough, strong game, and size isn't usually frowned upon in the playoffs. But the last 5+ years top 20 is dominated by average sized skill players that know how to show up when its needed. We can't just say these young guys with size will perform in big games over the smaller guys. Thornton is essentially built for the playoffs, and everyone dogs him cause he doesn't have a lot of success. Anyone taking him over 5'11 Kucherov or 5'8 Point?

I've been thinking about this point about "knowing how to show up when its needed". And I've come to a conclusion. I'd been thinking for years about the best ways to judge how translatable prospects are to the NHL. And the one thing you constantly hear from young players making the jump, from junior to AHL to NHL, is about how everything happens to much faster, and how much less time and space there is. When I'm scouting, just about the most important factor I'm looking for is how well they react and make plays when space-time is limited. Particularly down low, in the areas coming out of the corners and the inside, the areas below and between the hashmarks. But now that I've had that ingrained in my head for a couple years now, it got me wondering.

 

Take two prospects, one who likes to show off with elite skill, and one with pretty good skill but can make plays in tight spaces - the pretty good skill kid is more likely to translate at higher levels. So my theory is, we don't really need to think about it as playoff performers "step up their game". Instead, playoffs is just another higher level of hockey, where things keep happening faster and there is even less time and space available. So guys like Justin Williams, Henrik Zetterberg, Claude Lemieux, Jordan Eberle, etc., they are just the equivalent of those prospects who aren't flashy in junior, but are more adaptable to the pro game. It's not the players who are stepping up their performance in the big games so much (of course that may be part of it), but more rather that the general level of hockey goes up, and those guys just keep doing their thing, but their thing is precisely conducive to success at these higher levels.

[John_Guest]

On 6/14/2021 at 10:53 AM, Alflives said:

It's looking more and more like we will be left with a choice between Johnson and Gunther.  

I'm with you.

 

I was just reading the Ferland thread. The consensus there seemed to be Michael is out permanently to concussions but wouldn't it be nice if we had a feisty, 2-way winger on the left side who could score. Wouldn't everything else start to fit?

 

So I came here looking to see if anybody was touting anything like that. 

 

Somebody gave links to all the mock drafts so I started clicking them and guess averaged Guenther to be going around 8th. He can play both wings.

And doesn't he seem to be the sort of player JB says he's looking for:

 

Dylan Guenther's Player Profile

Steve Kournianos - The Draft Analyst - May 24th: "He may look wiry, but this dual-threat from the flank is an excellent penalty killer who also plays with snarl."

Sam Cosentino - Sportsnet - May 12th: "Thinks the game at a high level and is constantly utilizing all resources to improve his game. While offence is what jumps out, the proficiency in his game extends the length of the ice."

Mike G. Morreale - NHL.com - Apr. 23rd: "Guenther is a highly skilled, elite goal scorer who is quick on his skates."

Jameson Ewasiuk - Dobber Prospects - Mar. 8: "Guenther is a swift skating offensive forward who is a threat off the rush but is also lethal on the power play due to the quick release on his shot as well as his ability to get the puck to players in high danger scoring areas."

Tony Ferrari - Dobber Prospects - Feb. 22nd: "He has a good shot that he uses from all over the offensive zone. He thinks the offensive side of the game at a high level, working through layers of the defense to find space. His passing is quite good as well. "

Josh Bell - FC Hockey - Feb. 10th: "Still, his strength, skating, and overall play make him one of the safest bets in the draft."

 

 

I'm going to guess we're going to pick Guenther. And I'm fine with it.

Edited June 15, 2021 by John_Guest

[HighOnHockey]

52 minutes ago, Bertuzzipunch said:

Oh okay no way a team would ever ever draft by a position of need ever. Never has happened mmmk

This is a very bad argument. It is known as a "hasty generalization" - because it happens on occasion, then it must happen all the time. This is called a "logical fallacy". Of course it happens sometimes, but mostly in later rounds, basically never in the top ten. And even if it does on very rare occasions, that doesn't mean you can start making predictions based on those anomalies. Do better.

Edited June 15, 2021 by HighOnHockey

[John_Guest]

It happens because when BPA meets team need...Kismet. Bingo. The best of all worlds.

[Bertuzzipunch]

8 minutes ago, HighOnHockey said:

This is a very bad argument. It is known as a "hasty generalization" - because it happens on occasion, then it must happen all the time. This is called a "logical fallacy". Of course it happens sometimes, but mostly in later rounds, basically never in the top ten. And even if it does on very rare occasions, that doesn't mean you can start making predictions based on those anomalies. Do better.

Its not a bad argument, u literally have no idea who steve yzerman and what order he has for best player available. Just because clarke is a RHD doesnt mean squat if steve thinks theres 7or 8 players he thinks are better and ahead of him in the draft.

[HighOnHockey]

Just now, Bertuzzipunch said:

Its not a bad argument, u literally have no idea who steve yzerman and what order he has for best player available. Just because clarke is a RHD doesnt mean squat if steve thinks theres 7or 8 players he thinks are better and ahead of him in the draft.

So why do you keep making it sound like he's going to pick based on positional need?

[HighOnHockey]

14 hours ago, Bertuzzipunch said:

Detroit needs forwards and goalies they have a lot of picks later on for defenseman. Id be very surprised if stevie doesnt draft Eklund  or johnson

 

14 hours ago, Bertuzzipunch said:

Okay but the thing is they are extremely weak on the left side for defenseman. Why take a Clarke when u can take hughes or eviddson? 

 

15 hours ago, Bertuzzipunch said:

Some teams dont need a RHD like detroit for example.

 

[smithers joe]

gear said, they hope they het a good player at 9 so they can trade him. i may have heard that wrong but i get the feeling that if a certain player is available to canucks, they would trade the pick to that team for something benning and group want. i might be out to lunch again though. colour me, stuck between the lines.

[DeNiro]

2 minutes ago, smithers joe said:

gear said, they hope they het a good player at 9 so they can trade him. i may have heard that wrong but i get the feeling that if a certain player is available to canucks, they would trade the pick to that team for something benning and group want. i might be out to lunch again though. colour me, stuck between the lines.

Might have misheard that.

 

The pick is definitely in play for a good young player. But if there’s a player they like at 9 they’ll keep it.

 

I could see them taking Wallstedt and trading him to a team that needs a goalie. But I doubt that’s their plan.

[Bertuzzipunch]

10 minutes ago, HighOnHockey said:

So why do you keep making it sound like he's going to pick based on positional need?

Because its obviously way more likely than keep picking a RHD every single draft with their 1st pick