2021 NHL Entry Draft

[hammertime]

7 hours ago, Canuckster86 said:

If Edvinsson gets picked by us, it is in the hopes that he can be Edler 2.0 down the road

To be fair I would be very satisfied if he were 18yo Edler.  

[HKSR]

22 minutes ago, HighOnHockey said:

I'm not so sure. Have to admit I haven't seen him very much, but I thought I saw glimpses of what could be a legitimate play-creator. There were definitely times that he looked like he was floating a bit waiting for the puck to come to him, but there were other times, especially at the U17s, where it looked like the offense was running through him. You tend to see the label "playmaker" associated with players who rack up assists, but what I thought I saw at U17s was a guy who creates plays from start to finish - give-and-go setups where the whole thing would run through him, except it would finish with him too. I've made the comparison to Zibanejad as a guy who is at his best when he's driving the puck up the middle, kicking it out to his wingers and driving the net. But Lucius doesn't have that power element driving the net. Maybe Brayden Point would be a better comparable - a guy who can make plays and finish through the middle of the ice, perhaps a specialist in the bumper position on the powerplay.

The problem is he has a shoot first mentality. 

[J.I.A.H.N]

3 hours ago, GarthButcher5 said:

I played a lot of hockey in my life and I have yet to learn how to learn how to play to lose. The competitive nature just takes over.

This is even harder for the top pros in the world. I doubt the coaches know how to coach to lose either. Especially considering Green was without a contract. 

I have played a little hockey too, and totally get you, in so far as players and coaches play in the now

 

The GM's have to look at the future,  and put the team they want out on the ice......they are in control of that, or at least partially

 

But as you and others say, it  is a mute point....it was a random thought

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 17, 2021 by janisahockeynut

[Canuck Surfer]

59 minutes ago, hammertime said:

To be fair I would be very satisfied if he were 18yo Edler.  

With wheels! 

 

Eddievinsson, version 2.0 can skate!

[HighOnHockey]

5 hours ago, higgyfan said:

High school league.  Worrisome indeed...easy to dominate for a bigger dude. 

 

Good bloodlines though.  Dad Mike had a great career for sure!

Incorrect. USHL is the fourth best junior league in North American, just behind the three CHL leagues, and it has been gaining major ground over the past few years, as more and more kids choose it over CHL in order to maintain NCAA eligibility. It is likely right on the verge of surpassing the Q as the third best North American junior league, as is evidenced by the amount of young talent choosing USHL over QMJHL lately - Jacob Guevin, Guillaume Richard, Evan Nause, initially.

[Wolfgang Durst]

4 hours ago, Dats hockey said:

Losing is for losers. And we don’t want losers

Losers in the regular season will turn out to be winners in the draft because they get  - in general - the best prospects. That's obviously not the approach the Canucks have taken over the last couple of years. Instead they tried to finish the season with some wins to get out of the regular season with a good feeling. Sometimes you just have to do whatever it takes to improve your team going forward.

[R3aL]

6 hours ago, Bertuzzipunch said:

Check out ponmans 2017 final mock

 

His top 10:
1. Hischier
2. Patrick
3. Tippet 
4. Tolvanen
5. Kostin
6. Vilardi
7. Liljegrin
8. Necas
9. Glass
10. Yamamoto

Notable:
13. Makar
16. Heiskanen
18. Pettersson

Top 3 players of the draft at 13, 16, 18...

jheeeez if that’s accurate his final rankings pre draft Pronman Cred through the roooooof eh

[HighOnHockey]

10 hours ago, Eddie said:

Johnson works hard on the ice for sure - maybe sometimes too hard ?  He is really active on D, leads transition and moves a lot on Offence. He is far from a Goldy type player who can't contribute at both ends of the ice. 

I think the big question will be can he grow and learn to be part of a system the same way that Hoglander has - that will make or break his deployment with Green.  I think if the scouts think that might be the case he will be gone top 5 no prob tho as that would put him into EP level potential.

I really like K.J as a prospect and would be very happy if we picked him. 

Edvinsson scares me the most of any of the top 10 if i'm honest.  Maybe that is just Jake recency bias or maybe I just watched the 3 games he was horrible in. I have heard he has been more consistent and made fewer mistakes in recent games.  I don't see the Edler comparisons - I still think O.J is a really good Edler comp and despite a few struggles this season still looks better ( and fitter ) than Edler did at a similar age.  I think a better comparison for Edvinsson is Tyler Myers - his staking and defending reminds me a lot of Myers and if you get peak Myers he will be a very good pick - if you get brain fart Myers, then look out... 

 

Good stuff. Good to see you and Marv (and others) actually watch some games and not just reciting platitudes. I'd seen Johnson previously at WJACs, but the first time I watched him this year was a Saturday game in January, and there was this one particularly play that stood out so much. He was trying to maintain or regain possession of a loose puck entering the offensive zone, and somehow the puck ended up in the air, and Johnson batted it up two or three times to try to get it away from opponents' sticks. After the game I noticed some folks on a different forum were criticizing him for that play in particular (among others) as an example of why much of what he does will never work in the NHL, and he would get his head taken off trying to do that in the pros. But to me it was more an example of a. exceptional hand-eye, and b. how badly this kid wants to make things happen out there and also how creative that he'll try anything.

 

He takes a lot of criticism (perhaps justified) for trying to do too much with the puck and being too flashy, but it's just him wanting to make plays and make a difference. And he's far from a pure skill primadonna - kid defends hard and doesn't easily give up on a play. And I'm not sold on any concerns with his hockey IQ, because most of what he does actually works at the NCAA level. If he was trying all this stuff and constantly getting burned for it, that would be a problem, but that's not the case. For sure he's going to have to reel it in and learn to pick his spots when he moves up levels, but he'll cross that bridge when he gets there.

 

There is risk involved with this prospect for sure. But I think the biggest downside is time. Of course teams' first concern is to get the best player, but they also don't want to wait forever and lose valuable years of RFA. Johnson is gonna need some time to bulk up before he can even turn pro, and once he does he'll need a lot of coaching to learn how to play the pro game. He has the benefit of being a late birthday and so an older player, but you're likely still looking at at least two years before he sees an NHL game, and probably five years before he'll be an impact player. I see some shades of Kyle Turris there, although more of a playmaker than goal-scorer; of course the team that drafts him will be hoping for a higher ceiling, but something in the ballpark of Turris would be a nice fallback plan if he doesn't quite pan out. All in all, not my personal favorite player in the draft, but I could get excited if the Canucks pick him.

[Dats hockey]

1 hour ago, Wolfgang Durst said:

Losers in the regular season will turn out to be winners in the draft because they get  - in general - the best prospects. That's obviously not the approach the Canucks have taken over the last couple of years. Instead they tried to finish the season with some wins to get out of the regular season with a good feeling. Sometimes you just have to do whatever it takes to improve your team going forward.

Since 2010 Mcdavid and Mackinnon are the are the only 2 first OA picks to win a playoff series?

 

edit sorry hall has to just recently. Ohh I forgot Nuge, maybe we should try to be more like Edmonton lol

Edited June 17, 2021 by Dats hockey

[Junkyard Dog]

5 minutes ago, Dats hockey said:

Since 2010 Mcdavid and Mackinnon are the are the only 2 first OA picks to win a playoff series?

 

edit sorry hall has to just recently. Ohh I forgot Nuge, maybe we should try to be more like Edmonton lol

Blues, Bruins, Kings, Hawks, Penguins, Caps and Lightning have 2 things in common. They all have a cup(or more) the last decade and won them with top 5 picks on their roster.

 

Lightning: Stamkos, Hedman

Blues: Schenn, Pietrangelo

Caps: OV, Backstrom

3x Penguins: Crosby, Malkin, Fleury, Kessel, Jordan Staal

2x Kings: Doughty, Gaborik

Bruins: Seguin

3x Hawks: Kane, Toews

 

Each team besides the Blues had at least one top 2 pick. The teams that have won multiple cups the last decade have 2 or more top 5 picks(save for the Kings one run without Gaborik). You could argue that Seguin didn't make that much of an impact but the Sedins, two top 3 picks, helped carry us to that Finals. We also had some of our best success with two top 3 picks in the Sedins so from our own experience top 3 picks have served us well in the past.

 

My point is they do help a lot if you can build around them properly. What's different nowadays is that these picks are stepping in right away and making an insane impact then getting paid insane money out of their ELC, or at least some of them. Getting paid 8+ out of an ELC can be pretty handicapping.

 

Overall it's how you build after you draft these players. Even with these players it still can take a while like in the Blues/Caps/Lightning's case. It's hard to win the cup, we should know that more than most teams given our 3 Finals appearances.

[N4ZZY]

2 hours ago, R3aL said:

Top 3 players of the draft at 13, 16, 18...

jheeeez if that’s accurate his final rankings pre draft Pronman Cred through the roooooof eh

The &^@#. Pettersson at 18?? 

 

[Wolfgang Durst]

“He looked good over (in Switzerland),” a scout told The Hockey News in our recent Future Watch issue. “His release is terrific. He loves to shoot the puck and he loves to get to the net. He’s a heavy body. Sort of a one-speed guy but he’s competing and working more than last year, so that’s growth.”

 

“He kind of has that Nazem Kadri edge to him ,” another scout added. “McTavish has the grit you want out of a physical forward and puts a ton of power into his shot. I’d say McTavish is more of a play driver than Kadri, though.”

[HighOnHockey]

7 hours ago, Junkyard Dog said:

Blues, Bruins, Kings, Hawks, Penguins, Caps and Lightning have 2 things in common. They all have a cup(or more) the last decade and won them with top 5 picks on their roster.

 

Lightning: Stamkos, Hedman

Blues: Schenn, Pietrangelo

Caps: OV, Backstrom

3x Penguins: Crosby, Malkin, Fleury, Kessel, Jordan Staal

2x Kings: Doughty, Gaborik

Bruins: Seguin

3x Hawks: Kane, Toews

 

Each team besides the Blues had at least one top 2 pick. The teams that have won multiple cups the last decade have 2 or more top 5 picks(save for the Kings one run without Gaborik). You could argue that Seguin didn't make that much of an impact but the Sedins, two top 3 picks, helped carry us to that Finals. We also had some of our best success with two top 3 picks in the Sedins so from our own experience top 3 picks have served us well in the past.

 

My point is they do help a lot if you can build around them properly. What's different nowadays is that these picks are stepping in right away and making an insane impact then getting paid insane money out of their ELC, or at least some of them. Getting paid 8+ out of an ELC can be pretty handicapping.

 

Overall it's how you build after you draft these players. Even with these players it still can take a while like in the Blues/Caps/Lightning's case. It's hard to win the cup, we should know that more than most teams given our 3 Finals appearances.

 

Woah, how are you trying to include Schenn and Gaborik here? I had a good post about this not too long ago, but before I get to the explanation, lets just jump to some examples. You named 7 teams that won Cups, so lets look at 7 teams that didn't (yet?):

 

Arizona had top five picks in 2004 (5th) and 2007 (3rd), plus an 8th, an 8th and a 6th between 2006 and 2009.

 

New York Islanders had five(!) top five picks from 2009 to 2014 (1st, 5th, 5th, 4th, 5th).

 

New Jersey Devils had two first overall picks, in 2017 and 2019, and another coming up in 2021. We'll see where that goes, but let me know when you're planning to bet on them to win the Cup.

 

Florida Panthers had four top five picks from 2010 to 2014 (3rd, 3rd, 2nd, 1st).

 

Edmonton Oilers had six top five picks from 2010 to 2016, including four firsts (!), a third and a fourth. Maybe they will win a Cup yet, but you have to admit that kinda seems like overkill. Or based on your argument, you might even say it is greedy.

 

Buffalo Sabres had three top five picks between 2014 and 2018, including two firsts and a 3rd. Plus five more top ten picks between 2013 and 2020. Fingers crossed for them.

 

Toronto Maple Leafs also had three top five picks from 2012 to 2016 (fifth, fourth, first), plus 8th in 2014. Fingers crossed for them too. I hope every fan base that has to suffer through this gets rewarded, but the truth of the matter is only so many of them can.

 

Lets not even get into the Columbus Blue Jackets from 2000 to 2012.

 

I'm not saying high picks and lottery luck didn't help Chicago or Pittsburgh. Of course they would never have been what they were without Malkin, Crosby, Toews, Kane. But the point is you're looking it it from the wrong perspective. Those teams got very lucky that they won the lottery (which is even harder to get in the top two now) and also very lucky that players like those were available the years they sucked. Plus they still had to build strong teams around them. Every team goes through these cycles of ups and downs. It is literally the stated intention of the reverse-standings draft-order system. But sucking on purpose is what leads to those Islanders or Oilers teams.

 

Then you look at teams like Boston for their Cup in 2011 or Dallas for their Finals appearance in 2020, Nashville's Finals appearance in 2017  or even Winnipeg's run to the conference finals in 2018. All had just gone through a very brief retooling and had at least one top five pick, and then suddenly emerged as contending teams a couple years later, but although they may have added one key piece from the draft, those teams were overwhelmingly led by keen trade and free agent acquisitions, as well as the internal development of shrewd draft picks stockpiled from well before their tank years. Even Chicago, Kane and Toews were the centerpieces, but Skille and Barker had little to do with it. And major credit goes to Keith, Byfuglien and Seabrook, who were drafted well before the tank, and then masterful trade and free agent acquisitions like Patrick Sharp and Marian Hossa.

 

Every few years I like to make a list of the top ten GMs in the league. And generally the first criteria is Cup rings, but even without any Cups, give me Doug Wilson and David Poile every day of the week for the way they were able to keep San Jose and Nashville competitive for a decade and a half with very few major bumps in the road. Jim Nill is also doing great things in Dallas, not going through the traditional tear-it-down mentality, trading for Spezza and Seguin early on, and eventually making the Finals (yes, led by Heiskanen). All three made it to the Finals and lost to powerhouse teams led by Malkin, Crosby, Stamkos, Hedman, but hey, what are you gonna do?

Edited June 17, 2021 by HighOnHockey

[HighOnHockey]

Whoops.

Edited June 17, 2021 by HighOnHockey

[Dats hockey]

8 hours ago, Junkyard Dog said:

Blues, Bruins, Kings, Hawks, Penguins, Caps and Lightning have 2 things in common. They all have a cup(or more) the last decade and won them with top 5 picks on their roster.

 

Lightning: Stamkos, Hedman

Blues: Schenn, Pietrangelo

Caps: OV, Backstrom

3x Penguins: Crosby, Malkin, Fleury, Kessel, Jordan Staal

2x Kings: Doughty, Gaborik

Bruins: Seguin

3x Hawks: Kane, Toews

 

Each team besides the Blues had at least one top 2 pick. The teams that have won multiple cups the last decade have 2 or more top 5 picks(save for the Kings one run without Gaborik). You could argue that Seguin didn't make that much of an impact but the Sedins, two top 3 picks, helped carry us to that Finals. We also had some of our best success with two top 3 picks in the Sedins so from our own experience top 3 picks have served us well in the past.

 

My point is they do help a lot if you can build around them properly. What's different nowadays is that these picks are stepping in right away and making an insane impact then getting paid insane money out of their ELC, or at least some of them. Getting paid 8+ out of an ELC can be pretty handicapping.

 

Overall it's how you build after you draft these players. Even with these players it still can take a while like in the Blues/Caps/Lightning's case. It's hard to win the cup, we should know that more than most teams given our 3 Finals appearances.

So I’d like to point out the fact that it take a lot more than a top 5 pick on your team to win a cup plenty of team have down nothing with many top 5 picks.

 

In general you need to draft well through round 1-7. You need a elite talent or 2. Or solid goalie to can rely on. A solid d core 1-5 at least.

 

and look at the team remaining in the playoffs today and how they acquired their leading players

 

tampa being led by

Point 3rd rounder

Kucherov 2nd rounder

hedman 2AO

 

Vegas

Fluery Trade or expansion can’t remember

Stone trade

Petro UFA

 

isle

Pague Trade

Bailey 9th Ao

nelson 30AO

(Trots is the reason this team good)

 

Montreal

Price 5AO

Suzuki trade

toff UFA

perry ufa

stall trade

 

Top 2 picks aren’t everything.

They help but you want a winning culture better than being The devils Edmonton and sabres 

 

[Dats hockey]

8 hours ago, Junkyard Dog said:

Blues, Bruins, Kings, Hawks, Penguins, Caps and Lightning have 2 things in common. They all have a cup(or more) the last decade and won them with top 5 picks on their roster.

 

Lightning: Stamkos, Hedman

Blues: Schenn, Pietrangelo

Caps: OV, Backstrom

3x Penguins: Crosby, Malkin, Fleury, Kessel, Jordan Staal

2x Kings: Doughty, Gaborik

Bruins: Seguin

3x Hawks: Kane, Toews

 

Each team besides the Blues had at least one top 2 pick. The teams that have won multiple cups the last decade have 2 or more top 5 picks(save for the Kings one run without Gaborik). You could argue that Seguin didn't make that much of an impact but the Sedins, two top 3 picks, helped carry us to that Finals. We also had some of our best success with two top 3 picks in the Sedins so from our own experience top 3 picks have served us well in the past.

 

My point is they do help a lot if you can build around them properly. What's different nowadays is that these picks are stepping in right away and making an insane impact then getting paid insane money out of their ELC, or at least some of them. Getting paid 8+ out of an ELC can be pretty handicapping.

 

Overall it's how you build after you draft these players. Even with these players it still can take a while like in the Blues/Caps/Lightning's case. It's hard to win the cup, we should know that more than most teams given our 3 Finals appearances.

Also in those team listed to win cups you exclude players on those teams that weren’t drafted top5 that were KEY contributors

 

lightening Point Kucherov palat vasi killorn

chicago Keith seabrook sharp hossa

bruins Bergeron Thomas chara Marchand krecji

pitts letang guentzal kunitz Murray Shultz

King Quick carter Toff peason voynov muzzin 

Blues I honestly can’t remember many but tarasanko oreilly

Caps Carlson orlov kuznetsov Holtby 

 

and that’s off the top of the head

 

[aGENT]

IMO what you need are the key players.

 

The goalie, the one shot scorer, a solid 1, 2 and 3 C, a first pair scoring D, a first pair all around/defensive D and solid support/depth around them.

 

Where they were drafted or whether you traded for them or signed them matters not.

 

Stir in a large dollop of luck and good health and you have a 'contender'.

 

Now, that's not too say it's not easier to find those guys with top 5 picks or that it's not cheaper than signing them as UFA's etc but it's HIGHLY oversimplified to just say "draft high = win cup".

[Vinny in Vancouver]

Gotta love the crazy comparables during draft time! Button just released his second mock draft (https://www.tsn.ca/jets-bolster-blueline-oilers-add-skill-up-front-in-button-s-second-mock-draft-1.1656063), and he has the following - I stopped at 20:

1. Buffalo selects Hedman
2. Seattle selects Horvat
3. Anaheim selects TJ Oshie
4. New Jersey selects Klingberg
5. Columbus selects Seth Jones
6. Detroit selects Ryan Miller
7. San Jose selects Aho
8. LA selects Morgan Reilly
9. Vancouver selects Petey
10. Ottawa selects Ryan O'Reilly
11. Chicago selects DeBrincat
12. Calgary selects Couture
13. Philly selects Marchand(!)
14. Dallas selects Landeskog
15. Rangers select Brock Nelson
16. St. Louis selects McDonagh
17. Jets select Seabrook
18. Oilers select Rantanen
19. Bruins select Datsyuk
20. Coyotes select JT Miller

[Nucker 67]

I'm circling back again to the possibility of Benning trading the #9.

 

The latest rumour has Reinhart coming to VAN, at his request and also BUF saying they plan to get another Top 10 pick at the draft. BUf basically needs a re-do, building around Dahlin, Mittelstadt and Cozens, etc. They'll try to trade Reinhart, Eichel and possibly Ristolainen, for lots of picks. If they get proper management and coaching, they could be a force one day. But that's a ways off. 

 

The #9 pick won't help Bennong, who is tryin to save his job and turn the Canucks into a playoff team. This is why I believe he'll trade the #9 for immediate help in the Top 6.

 

2021/22

 

Miller - Pettersson - Boeser

Pearson - Horvat - Reinhart

Hoglander - UFA - Podkolzin

 

It would sure look better on paper anyway

[Dats hockey]

2 minutes ago, aGENT said:

IMO what you need are the key players.

 

The goalie, the one shot scorer, a solid 1, 2 and 3 C, a first pair scoring D, a first pair all around/defensive D and solid support/depth around them.

 

Where they were drafted or whether you traded for them or signed them matters not.

 

Stir in a large dollop of luck and good health and you have a 'contender'.

 

Now, that's not too say it's not easier to find those guys with top 5 picks or that it's not cheaper than signing them as UFA's etc but it's HIGHLY oversimplified to just say "draft high = win cup".

But apparently it’s sign Trotz become cup contender.

 

Almost like coaching and system Matter