Dats hockey Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 5 minutes ago, vinny_in_vancouver said: Gotta love the crazy comparables during draft time! Button just released his second mock draft (https://www.tsn.ca/jets-bolster-blueline-oilers-add-skill-up-front-in-button-s-second-mock-draft-1.1656063), and he has the following - I stopped at 20: Buffalo selects Hedman Seattle selects Horvat Anaheim selects TJ Oshie New Jersey selects Klingberg Columbus selects Seth Jones Detroit selects Ryan Miller San Jose selects Aho LA selects Morgan Reilly Vancouver selects Petey Ottawa selects Ryan O'Reilly Chicago selects DeBrincat Calgary selects Couture Philly selects Marchand(!) Dallas selects Landeskog Rangers select Brock Nelson St. Louis selects McDonagh Jets select Seabrook Oilers select Rantanen Bruins select Datsyuk Coyotes select JT Miller He has Lysell going 26AO id trade for that pick knowing it would be him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfgang Durst Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 according to an analysis of drafting for each franchise since 2005 Canucks have been very successful in drafting NHL'ers: Best and worst in each category: Total picks - Chicago (105) most, Pittsburgh (72) fewest NHLers drafted - Boston/Columbus (51) most, Vancouver (29) fewest Hit % - Boston (65%) best, Chicago/Vancouver (39%) worst Games played - Los Angeles (13,246) most, Vancouver (4,519) fewest Points - Edmonton (5,294) most, Vancouver (1,749) fewest Points per game - Colorado (0.59) most, New Jersey (0.31) fewest Games played per pick - Los Angeles (147) most, Vancouver (61) fewest Points per pick - Boston (61) most, Vancouver/New Jersey (24) fewest 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nergish Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 Which draft-eligible prospect would you rather have than Sam Reinhart? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marv-the-wet-bandit Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 25 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said: I'm circling back again to the possibility of Benning trading the #9. The latest rumour has Reinhart coming to VAN, at his request and also BUF saying they plan to get another Top 10 pick at the draft. BUf basically needs a re-do, building around Dahlin, Mittelstadt and Cozens, etc. They'll try to trade Reinhart, Eichel and possibly Ristolainen, for lots of picks. If they get proper management and coaching, they could be a force one day. But that's a ways off. The #9 pick won't help Bennong, who is tryin to save his job and turn the Canucks into a playoff team. This is why I believe he'll trade the #9 for immediate help in the Top 6. 2021/22 Miller - Pettersson - Boeser Pearson - Horvat - Reinhart Hoglander - UFA - Podkolzin It would sure look better on paper anyway He might make that move but it would be bad for the organization. We don’t need another contract like Reinharts. We need a player they will help us in the coming years on an ELC. The cap is projected to be stagnant for the next couple years. That’ll be a very disappointing move if he makes it. And I like Reinhart and what he brings but it’s a cap league, please don’t do it JB! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildwood12 Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 (edited) 37 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said: I'm circling back again to the possibility of Benning trading the #9. The latest rumour has Reinhart coming to VAN, at his request and also BUF saying they plan to get another Top 10 pick at the draft. BUf basically needs a re-do, building around Dahlin, Mittelstadt and Cozens, etc. They'll try to trade Reinhart, Eichel and possibly Ristolainen, for lots of picks. If they get proper management and coaching, they could be a force one day. But that's a ways off. The #9 pick won't help Bennong, who is tryin to save his job and turn the Canucks into a playoff team. This is why I believe he'll trade the #9 for immediate help in the Top 6. 2021/22 Miller - Pettersson - Boeser Pearson - Horvat - Reinhart Hoglander - UFA - Podkolzin It would sure look better on paper anyway If Benning does that. Then he would be a bone head for giving up assets for Toffoli. Edited June 17, 2021 by wildwood12 Spelling 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucker 67 Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 11 minutes ago, Marv-the-wet-bandit said: He might make that move but it would be bad for the organization. We don’t need another contract like Reinharts. We need a player they will help us in the coming years on an ELC. The cap is projected to be stagnant for the next couple years. That’ll be a very disappointing move if he makes it. And I like Reinhart and what he brings but it’s a cap league, please don’t do it JB! I'm torn - on one hand I'd like the Canucks to be better, to be a playoff team, but I also know they have no C depth, past Focht. That's pretty bad and they do need to refill that cupboard. Does Benning think he'll find a couple of gems in later rounds? 16 minutes ago, nergish said: Which draft-eligible prospect would you rather have than Sam Reinhart? Power Clarke Beniers Eklund McTavish That's about it for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildwood12 Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 If Reinhardt really wants to come to Vancouver. Sign him when he is a UFA. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, wildwood12 said: If Reinhardt really wants to come to Vancouver. Sign him when he is a UFA. It’s unlikely he makes it to free agency. The Sabres will trade him this offseason and the team acquiring will make sure to sign him. You want him you get him this summer or not at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marv-the-wet-bandit Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 12 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said: I'm torn - on one hand I'd like the Canucks to be better, to be a playoff team, but I also know they have no C depth, past Focht. That's pretty bad and they do need to refill that cupboard. Does Benning think he'll find a couple of gems in later rounds? Power Clarke Beniers Eklund McTavish That's about it for me I’d like the Canucks to be better too, just not for a year or 2 but for the long haul. I don’t think adding that contract puts us where we need to be. I think they should just stay the course. Make their picks and with the high end talent we have he can turn this team into a Stanley cup Contender in time. I don’t think Reinhart does that for us. I want to see a Stanley cup I don’t care to just make the playoffs and be done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 Button did his second mock draft on TSN. Again we’re projected to take Kent Johnson, so it’s pretty obvious we’re not taking Johnson… Also nice to see the Canucks have three players in his NHL comparables. Finally we have players that other teams compare their prospects to. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawdzukes Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 12 hours ago, Wolfgang Durst said: Losers in the regular season will turn out to be winners in the draft because they get - in general - the best prospects. That's obviously not the approach the Canucks have taken over the last couple of years. Instead they tried to finish the season with some wins to get out of the regular season with a good feeling. Sometimes you just have to do whatever it takes to improve your team going forward. what a loser mentality 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucker 67 Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 4 minutes ago, Marv-the-wet-bandit said: just not for a year or 2 but for the long haul. I also wonder though - does hoarding draft picks really help an organization? Look at EDM, BUF and OTT. Reinhart is only 25, by no means old. What the Canucks would get is a Top 6 forward who led his team tin goals and points. Guaranteed production, as opposed to a maybe down the road a prospect will work out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawdzukes Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 2 hours ago, HighOnHockey said: Woah, how are you trying to include Schenn and Gaborik here? I had a good post about this not too long ago, but before I get to the explanation, lets just jump to some examples. You named 7 teams that won Cups, so lets look at 7 teams that didn't (yet?): Arizona had top five picks in 2004 (5th) and 2007 (3rd), plus an 8th, an 8th and a 6th between 2006 and 2009. New York Islanders had five(!) top five picks from 2009 to 2014 (1st, 5th, 5th, 4th, 5th). New Jersey Devils had two first overall picks, in 2017 and 2019, and another coming up in 2021. We'll see where that goes, but let me know when you're planning to bet on them to win the Cup. Florida Panthers had four top five picks from 2010 to 2014 (3rd, 3rd, 2nd, 1st). Edmonton Oilers had six top five picks from 2010 to 2016, including four firsts (!), a third and a fourth. Maybe they will win a Cup yet, but you have to admit that kinda seems like overkill. Or based on your argument, you might even say it is greedy. Buffalo Sabres had three top five picks between 2014 and 2018, including two firsts and a 3rd. Plus five more top ten picks between 2013 and 2020. Fingers crossed for them. Toronto Maple Leafs also had three top five picks from 2012 to 2016 (fifth, fourth, first), plus 8th in 2014. Fingers crossed for them too. I hope every fan base that has to suffer through this gets rewarded, but the truth of the matter is only so many of them can. Lets not even get into the Columbus Blue Jackets from 2000 to 2012. I'm not saying high picks and lottery luck didn't help Chicago or Pittsburgh. Of course they would never have been what they were without Malkin, Crosby, Toews, Kane. But the point is you're looking it it from the wrong perspective. Those teams got very lucky that they won the lottery (which is even harder to get in the top two now) and also very lucky that players like those were available the years they sucked. Plus they still had to build strong teams around them. Every team goes through these cycles of ups and downs. It is literally the stated intention of the reverse-standings draft-order system. But sucking on purpose is what leads to those Islanders or Oilers teams. Then you look at teams like Boston for their Cup in 2011 or Dallas for their Finals appearance in 2020, Nashville's Finals appearance in 2017 or even Winnipeg's run to the conference finals in 2018. All had just gone through a very brief retooling and had at least one top five pick, and then suddenly emerged as contending teams a couple years later, but although they may have added one key piece from the draft, those teams were overwhelmingly led by keen trade and free agent acquisitions, as well as the internal development of shrewd draft picks stockpiled from well before their tank years. Even Chicago, Kane and Toews were the centerpieces, but Skille and Barker had little to do with it. And major credit goes to Keith, Byfuglien and Seabrook, who were drafted well before the tank, and then masterful trade and free agent acquisitions like Patrick Sharp and Marian Hossa. Every few years I like to make a list of the top ten GMs in the league. And generally the first criteria is Cup rings, but even without any Cups, give me Doug Wilson and David Poile every day of the week for the way they were able to keep San Jose and Nashville competitive for a decade and a half with very few major bumps in the road. Jim Nill is also doing great things in Dallas, not going through the traditional tear-it-down mentality, trading for Spezza and Seguin early on, and eventually making the Finals (yes, led by Heiskanen). All three made it to the Finals and lost to powerhouse teams led by Malkin, Crosby, Stamkos, Hedman, but hey, what are you gonna do? Thank you HoH, we'll said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plaguez Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 In my expert opinion Yeah, no clue what will happen until it happens. No idea who other teams will pick, no clue who will be left and zero clue as to what trades, signings, buyouts will happen which may or may not force the GM to use the pick or trade it. What I am sure of is whomever we pick will be criticized by some, praised by others. Also if the pick is traded there will be a lot of debate if it is the right move and even more so if the pick becomes a star. Not super worried as I don't think this team, as constructed has a hope of winning the cup. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 13 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said: I also wonder though - does hoarding draft picks really help an organization? Look at EDM, BUF and OTT. Reinhart is only 25, by no means old. What the Canucks would get is a Top 6 forward who led his team tin goals and points. Guaranteed production, as opposed to a maybe down the road a prospect will work out. No it really doesn’t. As much as people roast Benning for trading away picks he knows better than anyone that sometimes a draft pick has more value as a trade piece. It’s why this year like every year he’ll evaluate the player available at 9 and compare it to the value of a potential trade target. Toronto and Edmonton did a good job collecting good young prospects problem is they always hold onto them too long. If they were to trade them earlier while the hype was still fresh they could have filled big holes in their roster. However you hold onto them too long and suddenly the hype doesn’t meet reality. Thats why it’s a careful balancing act between using picks, trading picks, and trading prospects before their value diminishes. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marv-the-wet-bandit Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 21 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said: I also wonder though - does hoarding draft picks really help an organization? Look at EDM, BUF and OTT. Reinhart is only 25, by no means old. What the Canucks would get is a Top 6 forward who led his team tin goals and points. Guaranteed production, as opposed to a maybe down the road a prospect will work out. I’m not saying he’s old. And I think he’s a good player. My issue is we need guys to come in on their entry level deals to help our team. Adding another contract like Reinhart means we won’t have any depth. The cap looks to be stagnant for the next couple years. I agree he’s a good player but this is a cap league. That’s my issue with a Reinhart trade, not the player but where it puts us 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marv-the-wet-bandit Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 4 minutes ago, DeNiro said: No it really doesn’t. As much as people roast Benning for trading away picks he knows better than anyone that sometimes a draft pick has more value as a trade piece. It’s why this year like every year he’ll evaluate the player available at 9 and compare it to the value of a potential trade target. Toronto and Edmonton did a good job collecting good young prospects problem is they always hold onto them too long. If they were to trade them earlier while the hype was still fresh they could have filled big holes in their roster. However you hold onto them too long and suddenly the hype doesn’t meet reality. Thats why it’s a careful balancing act between using picks, trading picks, and trading prospects before their value diminishes. I agree with most of this. But if we trade for Reinhart after adding Miller then we lose out on 2 ELCs that should help the team and add over 10 million to our cap. I love Miller and am happy with the trade but I worry about our cap outlook when the cap is going to be stagnant for the next couple years. We are re signing Hughes and Petey this year but Bo and JT and Podz and Hogz and Rathbone all need to be re signed and other then Pod the rest need to be done in the following 2 off seasons. Then maybe Gadjovich or Lind or OJ take a step forward in the nhl and they get paid more then what we’d think right now. We need to be cap conscious. I’ll take a player at 9 even if he needs a year or 2 of development with the chance he’ll come in even in a few years and help us at a million dollars over risking what Reinhart does for us 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanSeanBean Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 1 hour ago, vinny_in_vancouver said: Gotta love the crazy comparables during draft time! Button just released his second mock draft (https://www.tsn.ca/jets-bolster-blueline-oilers-add-skill-up-front-in-button-s-second-mock-draft-1.1656063), and he has the following - I stopped at 20: Buffalo selects Hedman Seattle selects Horvat Anaheim selects TJ Oshie New Jersey selects Klingberg Columbus selects Seth Jones Detroit selects Ryan Miller San Jose selects Aho LA selects Morgan Reilly Vancouver selects Petey Ottawa selects Ryan O'Reilly Chicago selects DeBrincat Calgary selects Couture Philly selects Marchand(!) Dallas selects Landeskog Rangers select Brock Nelson St. Louis selects McDonagh Jets select Seabrook Oilers select Rantanen Bruins select Datsyuk Coyotes select JT Miller Holy man Craig is not high on Lysell at all. I don't want him at 9, but I still think he's a top 12 or so talent. Craig has him at the end of the first round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucker 67 Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 14 minutes ago, shayster007 said: Holy man Craig is not high oh yes he is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 1 hour ago, NUCKER67 said: I'm circling back again to the possibility of Benning trading the #9. The latest rumour has Reinhart coming to VAN, at his request and also BUF saying they plan to get another Top 10 pick at the draft. BUf basically needs a re-do, building around Dahlin, Mittelstadt and Cozens, etc. They'll try to trade Reinhart, Eichel and possibly Ristolainen, for lots of picks. If they get proper management and coaching, they could be a force one day. But that's a ways off. The #9 pick won't help Bennong, who is tryin to save his job and turn the Canucks into a playoff team. This is why I believe he'll trade the #9 for immediate help in the Top 6. 2021/22 Miller - Pettersson - Boeser Pearson - Horvat - Reinhart Hoglander - UFA - Podkolzin It would sure look better on paper anyway Maybe, but he showed with Podz, that he was willing to wait... However, if he feels there's only a 50/50 chance his pick makes it in a couple of years, yes I can easily see him trade the pick as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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