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2021 NHL Entry Draft


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1 hour ago, janisahockeynut said:

You know, I know I should let it go

 

But I just can not understand why those last few wins were so important.

 

4 friggin points

 

How much did it really help their development?

I played a lot of hockey in my life and I have yet to learn how to learn how to play to lose. The competitive nature just takes over.

This is even harder for the top pros in the world. I doubt the coaches know how to coach to lose either. Especially considering Green was without a contract. 

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27 minutes ago, shayster007 said:

Gotta let it go Jan. Those wins weren't for the fans, the coaches, management, nothing. Those last few wins were for the team, and they earned him. I would have been embarrassed to be a Canuck if they mailed it in for a draft pick. The kids want to win, we can only respect that and support them. We are going to get a hell of a player at 9.

Especially in a year where the draft is going to be extremely unpredictable. Hard to get a proper read on most of them. 

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2 hours ago, J-Dizzle said:

what’s the deal with Raty… guy seems to be ranked all over the place depending who you’re looking at?

I'm still pretty high on this guy - He could be a hell of a player if he pulls it all together. Skill, size, speed, all round game - He was an early pick for #1 for a reason. 

The kids just had a very average second year - didn't make a impact once playing against men in Finland and his game kinda stalled - especially offensively. Kinda looked a bit like Podkolzin in his D+1 in some ways. Then there was the strange affair of why he didn't get re-invited to World Jnrs by Finland - was it just politics or much more likely they didn't like the player - huge alarm bell. 

If Salo really likes the player and they can get to the bottom of the issues and believe the upside is really there - i wouldn't hate the pick. But i think at this time there is a lot less risk in McTavish, Sillinger, Johnson, Lucius etc.  

Could be this years Chychrun - lots of teams regret not taking that risk. 

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3 hours ago, NUCKER67 said:

I won't claim to be an expert or know all about Johnson, I just have my own opinions. My first impression of Johnson is: super skilled, high risk/high reward, will take time to develop properly

 

Do the Canucks want to develop their #9 overall player for the next 2-3 years, like Jake and Olli? (and even then, will Green trust him enough?)

 

Or do they want a McTavish or Sillinger, to add to their group when they compete for playoffs in a couple of years?

 

 

I do think that McT and Sillinger will be our best bets to contribute in what is hopefully the upcoming start of our cup contention window. 

While i'm pretty high on Johnson, i think him, and a few of the D ( Luke Hughes inc) could be looking at 2-3 years before they make a team. I think even Owen Power really should take another year before playing in the NHL - #1 pick or not... you gotta remember how little some of these guys have played in the last year.  That probably is gonna be a factor for us and Benning when they are looking at prospects. 

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43 minutes ago, GarthButcher5 said:

I played a lot of hockey in my life and I have yet to learn how to learn how to play to lose. The competitive nature just takes over.

This is even harder for the top pros in the world. I doubt the coaches know how to coach to lose either. Especially considering Green was without a contract. 

Losing is for losers. And we don’t want losers

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2 hours ago, HKSR said:

 

I don't see Lucius as the kinda play driver the Canucks need.  The Canucks have guys that can shoot the puck in Petey, Boeser, Miller, Bo and even Hogz to a certain extent.  The Canucks need someone that can drive the play and be creative with the puck to get it to these guys. 

I'm not so sure. Have to admit I haven't seen him very much, but I thought I saw glimpses of what could be a legitimate play-creator. There were definitely times that he looked like he was floating a bit waiting for the puck to come to him, but there were other times, especially at the U17s, where it looked like the offense was running through him. You tend to see the label "playmaker" associated with players who rack up assists, but what I thought I saw at U17s was a guy who creates plays from start to finish - give-and-go setups where the whole thing would run through him, except it would finish with him too. I've made the comparison to Zibanejad as a guy who is at his best when he's driving the puck up the middle, kicking it out to his wingers and driving the net. But Lucius doesn't have that power element driving the net. Maybe Brayden Point would be a better comparable - a guy who can make plays and finish through the middle of the ice, perhaps a specialist in the bumper position on the powerplay.

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22 minutes ago, HighOnHockey said:

I'm not so sure. Have to admit I haven't seen him very much, but I thought I saw glimpses of what could be a legitimate play-creator. There were definitely times that he looked like he was floating a bit waiting for the puck to come to him, but there were other times, especially at the U17s, where it looked like the offense was running through him. You tend to see the label "playmaker" associated with players who rack up assists, but what I thought I saw at U17s was a guy who creates plays from start to finish - give-and-go setups where the whole thing would run through him, except it would finish with him too. I've made the comparison to Zibanejad as a guy who is at his best when he's driving the puck up the middle, kicking it out to his wingers and driving the net. But Lucius doesn't have that power element driving the net. Maybe Brayden Point would be a better comparable - a guy who can make plays and finish through the middle of the ice, perhaps a specialist in the bumper position on the powerplay.

The problem is he has a shoot first mentality. 

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3 hours ago, GarthButcher5 said:

I played a lot of hockey in my life and I have yet to learn how to learn how to play to lose. The competitive nature just takes over.

This is even harder for the top pros in the world. I doubt the coaches know how to coach to lose either. Especially considering Green was without a contract. 

I have played a little hockey too, and totally get you, in so far as players and coaches play in the now

 

The GM's have to look at the future,  and put the team they want out on the ice......they are in control of that, or at least partially

 

But as you and others say, it  is a mute point....it was a random thought

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by janisahockeynut
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5 hours ago, higgyfan said:

High school league.  Worrisome indeed...easy to dominate for a bigger dude. 

 

Good bloodlines though.  Dad Mike had a great career for sure!

Incorrect. USHL is the fourth best junior league in North American, just behind the three CHL leagues, and it has been gaining major ground over the past few years, as more and more kids choose it over CHL in order to maintain NCAA eligibility. It is likely right on the verge of surpassing the Q as the third best North American junior league, as is evidenced by the amount of young talent choosing USHL over QMJHL lately - Jacob Guevin, Guillaume Richard, Evan Nause, initially.

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4 hours ago, Dats hockey said:

Losing is for losers. And we don’t want losers

Losers in the regular season will turn out to be winners in the draft because they get  - in general - the best prospects. That's obviously not the approach the Canucks have taken over the last couple of years. Instead they tried to finish the season with some wins to get out of the regular season with a good feeling. Sometimes you just have to do whatever it takes to improve your team going forward.

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6 hours ago, Bertuzzipunch said:

Check out ponmans 2017 final mock

 


His top 10:
1. Hischier
2. Patrick
3. Tippet 
4. Tolvanen
5. Kostin
6. Vilardi
7. Liljegrin
8. Necas
9. Glass
10. Yamamoto

Notable:
13. Makar
16. Heiskanen
18. Pettersson

Top 3 players of the draft at 13, 16, 18...


jheeeez if that’s accurate his final rankings pre draft Pronman Cred through the roooooof eh

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10 hours ago, Eddie said:

Johnson works hard on the ice for sure - maybe sometimes too hard ?  He is really active on D, leads transition and moves a lot on Offence. He is far from a Goldy type player who can't contribute at both ends of the ice. 

I think the big question will be can he grow and learn to be part of a system the same way that Hoglander has - that will make or break his deployment with Green.  I think if the scouts think that might be the case he will be gone top 5 no prob tho as that would put him into EP level potential.

I really like K.J as a prospect and would be very happy if we picked him. 

Edvinsson scares me the most of any of the top 10 if i'm honest.  Maybe that is just Jake recency bias or maybe I just watched the 3 games he was horrible in. I have heard he has been more consistent and made fewer mistakes in recent games.  I don't see the Edler comparisons - I still think O.J is a really good Edler comp and despite a few struggles this season still looks better ( and fitter ) than Edler did at a similar age.  I think a better comparison for Edvinsson is Tyler Myers - his staking and defending reminds me a lot of Myers and if you get peak Myers he will be a very good pick - if you get brain fart Myers, then look out... 

 

Good stuff. Good to see you and Marv (and others) actually watch some games and not just reciting platitudes. I'd seen Johnson previously at WJACs, but the first time I watched him this year was a Saturday game in January, and there was this one particularly play that stood out so much. He was trying to maintain or regain possession of a loose puck entering the offensive zone, and somehow the puck ended up in the air, and Johnson batted it up two or three times to try to get it away from opponents' sticks. After the game I noticed some folks on a different forum were criticizing him for that play in particular (among others) as an example of why much of what he does will never work in the NHL, and he would get his head taken off trying to do that in the pros. But to me it was more an example of a. exceptional hand-eye, and b. how badly this kid wants to make things happen out there and also how creative that he'll try anything.

 

He takes a lot of criticism (perhaps justified) for trying to do too much with the puck and being too flashy, but it's just him wanting to make plays and make a difference. And he's far from a pure skill primadonna - kid defends hard and doesn't easily give up on a play. And I'm not sold on any concerns with his hockey IQ, because most of what he does actually works at the NCAA level. If he was trying all this stuff and constantly getting burned for it, that would be a problem, but that's not the case. For sure he's going to have to reel it in and learn to pick his spots when he moves up levels, but he'll cross that bridge when he gets there.

 

There is risk involved with this prospect for sure. But I think the biggest downside is time. Of course teams' first concern is to get the best player, but they also don't want to wait forever and lose valuable years of RFA. Johnson is gonna need some time to bulk up before he can even turn pro, and once he does he'll need a lot of coaching to learn how to play the pro game. He has the benefit of being a late birthday and so an older player, but you're likely still looking at at least two years before he sees an NHL game, and probably five years before he'll be an impact player. I see some shades of Kyle Turris there, although more of a playmaker than goal-scorer; of course the team that drafts him will be hoping for a higher ceiling, but something in the ballpark of Turris would be a nice fallback plan if he doesn't quite pan out. All in all, not my personal favorite player in the draft, but I could get excited if the Canucks pick him.

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1 hour ago, Wolfgang Durst said:

Losers in the regular season will turn out to be winners in the draft because they get  - in general - the best prospects. That's obviously not the approach the Canucks have taken over the last couple of years. Instead they tried to finish the season with some wins to get out of the regular season with a good feeling. Sometimes you just have to do whatever it takes to improve your team going forward.

Since 2010 Mcdavid and Mackinnon are the are the only 2 first OA picks to win a playoff series?

 

edit sorry hall has to just recently. Ohh I forgot Nuge, maybe we should try to be more like Edmonton lol

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5 minutes ago, Dats hockey said:

Since 2010 Mcdavid and Mackinnon are the are the only 2 first OA picks to win a playoff series?

 

edit sorry hall has to just recently. Ohh I forgot Nuge, maybe we should try to be more like Edmonton lol

Blues, Bruins, Kings, Hawks, Penguins, Caps and Lightning have 2 things in common. They all have a cup(or more) the last decade and won them with top 5 picks on their roster.

 

Lightning: Stamkos, Hedman

Blues: Schenn, Pietrangelo

Caps: OV, Backstrom

3x Penguins: Crosby, Malkin, Fleury, Kessel, Jordan Staal

2x Kings: Doughty, Gaborik

Bruins: Seguin

3x Hawks: Kane, Toews

 

Each team besides the Blues had at least one top 2 pick. The teams that have won multiple cups the last decade have 2 or more top 5 picks(save for the Kings one run without Gaborik). You could argue that Seguin didn't make that much of an impact but the Sedins, two top 3 picks, helped carry us to that Finals. We also had some of our best success with two top 3 picks in the Sedins so from our own experience top 3 picks have served us well in the past.

 

My point is they do help a lot if you can build around them properly. What's different nowadays is that these picks are stepping in right away and making an insane impact then getting paid insane money out of their ELC, or at least some of them. Getting paid 8+ out of an ELC can be pretty handicapping.

 

Overall it's how you build after you draft these players. Even with these players it still can take a while like in the Blues/Caps/Lightning's case. It's hard to win the cup, we should know that more than most teams given our 3 Finals appearances.

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2 hours ago, R3aL said:

Top 3 players of the draft at 13, 16, 18...


jheeeez if that’s accurate his final rankings pre draft Pronman Cred through the roooooof eh

The &^@#. Pettersson at 18?? 

 

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