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2021 NHL Entry Draft


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Just now, Marv-the-wet-bandit said:

That will give us 7 players of at least 5.5 million and 8 over 5. Hopefully Hoglander and Rathbone don’t ask for much on their extensions if that’s the case. Imagine OJ becoming a top 4 type Dman, won’t be able to afford him. If Podkolzin is the beast a lot of us hope and think he could become then it makes it a logistical nightmare to keep all of these young players to add Reinhart. I sure hope we just keep the pick

Having young guys coming up (let's say OJ, Bone, Hogs, and Pods for examples) and becoming too expensive to afford, because they are really good, is a sign we are a very good team.  Then we can trade the older guys, or the younger ones, for picks, prospects, or to fill a need elsewhere in the lineup.  

Like having both Quinn and Bone (some would say very similar players) allows us to trade one to fill a need elsewhere.  IMO the more top end young guys we have the better for us to stay good for a prolonged period of time. 

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6 minutes ago, Marv-the-wet-bandit said:

That will give us 7 players of at least 5.5 million and 8 over 5. Hopefully Hoglander and Rathbone don’t ask for much on their extensions if that’s the case. Imagine OJ becoming a top 4 type Dman, won’t be able to afford him. If Podkolzin is the beast a lot of us hope and think he could become then it makes it a logistical nightmare to keep all of these young players to add Reinhart. I sure hope we just keep the pick

Yeah totally agree - I still have a lot of faith in O.J - if he can just shake the fitness issue he looks like a very good all round D. I think all the players you listed there turn out to be 4.5-5.5M players. 

The problem with adding another 5-7M player this season through impatience could really will just be history repeating in trying to short cut things - but how much patience is there in the fan base for a narrow playoff miss or first round exit which we more than likely see without adding a quality player this season ?  

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1 minute ago, Eddie said:

Yeah totally agree - I still have a lot of faith in O.J - if he can just shake the fitness issue he looks like a very good all round D. I think all the players you listed there turn out to be 4.5-5.5M players. 

The problem with adding another 5-7M player this season through impatience could really will just be history repeating in trying to short cut things - but how much patience is there in the fan base for a narrow playoff miss or first round exit which we more than likely see without adding a quality player this season ?  

In fairness it’s not like Reinhart guarantees more then narrowly missing or a first round exit himself. I just think there’s other avenues to take over adding Reinhart

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39 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

I don’t think we will be looking to sign an 8 million dollar d man unless we ship out someone like Schmidt or Myers.

 

Reinhart should be able to be signed at a fairly reasonable price with a hometown discount.

 

The D men we should be targeting are guys like Cernak, Savard, or Parayko. Guys that won’t likely cost a 1st and will be on more reasonable contracts. We already have Hughes and Rathbone as very good puck movers. We need a balance with gritty stay at home guys.

 

 

Parayko would be nice but would likely cost a first I would think. 

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5 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Having young guys coming up (let's say OJ, Bone, Hogs, and Pods for examples) and becoming too expensive to afford, because they are really good, is a sign we are a very good team.  Then we can trade the older guys, or the younger ones, for picks, prospects, or to fill a need elsewhere in the lineup.  

Like having both Quinn and Bone (some would say very similar players) allows us to trade one to fill a need elsewhere.  IMO the more top end young guys we have the better for us to stay good for a prolonged period of time. 

That’s fair. I just think there’s other routes we could take to improve our team that doesn’t cost us our first or as much money as Reinhart. There’s teams that are going to lose solid players in the expansion draft, they’d more then likely take a 2nd or 3rd and wouldn’t cost as much as Reinhart. You could overpay a guy like Danault to be our legit 3rd C for less years and less dollars then Reinhart and keep our first. I’m not going to be crying if we do add Sam from North Van, I just don’t think it’s what’s best for this organization is all. 

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14 minutes ago, Marv-the-wet-bandit said:

That will give us 7 players of at least 5.5 million and 8 over 5. Hopefully Hoglander and Rathbone don’t ask for much on their extensions if that’s the case. Imagine OJ becoming a top 4 type Dman, won’t be able to afford him. If Podkolzin is the beast a lot of us hope and think he could become then it makes it a logistical nightmare to keep all of these young players to add Reinhart. I sure hope we just keep the pick

At 3/4 years that would make the contract more attractive in a trade for another team. Term kills the value of the player. So trade when we need the cash was my thought. 
 

Easier said than done though!

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3 minutes ago, #Canucks said:

At 3/4 years that would make the contract more attractive in a trade for another team. Term kills the value of the player. So trade when we need the cash was my thought. 
 

Easier said than done though!

Benning doesn’t win many trades or signings either yet he kills at on the draft floor. I agree term is what makes certain players difficult to move but the less term they got the higher the AAV goes as well

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I've posted this in the proposals section too, but thought I'd post it here as well since a lot of people seem to think we'll be in cap hell if we trade for Reinhart.  Here's my potential scenario that covers off the next 3 years (I've got year 4 and 5 too, but there's too many variables there):

 

TRADE #1

To Van:

Sam Reinhart

2021 33rd OA Pick (2nd Round)

 

To BUF:

2021 9th OA Pick (1st Round)

2021 41st OA Pick (2nd Round)

2021 73rd OA Pick (3rd Round)

Jack Rathbone

Antoine Roussel

 

VAN gets their Top 6 winger to play with Bo, and also get to move up in the 2nd round.

BUF gets the 9OA along with a heckuva prospect in Rathbone for Reinhart.  They move down 8 spots in the 2nd round but gain a 3rd round pick and a serviceable vet in Roussel.

 

TRADE #2

To Van:

2021 21st OA Pick (1st Round)

 

To BOS:

Nate Schmidt

Lukas Jasek

 

VAN recovers a 1st round pick, albeit a much later one.

BOS adds a very good defenceman to solidify their Top 4.  They look good on the RHD side, but could definitely use a defenceman like Schmidt on the LHD.  Also they gain a decent prospect in Jasek although signed in Europe for now.

 

UFA Signings and Extensions

-- Sign UFA Erik Haula at $2.5M x 5 years (he signs for this amount particularly due to the term)

-- Sign UFA David Savard at $4.5M x 5 years

-- Petey and Hughes extended on bridge deals at $7M x 3 years (was hoping $6.5M, but it looks more likely to be $7M at this point)

-- Re-sign Reinhart at $5.9M x 5 years (used William Karlsson as a comparable - he signed his deal in 2019-20)

-- Re-sign Hamonic at $2.5M x 3 years

-- Re-sign Edler at $2.25M for 1 year (and less as each year goes by)
 

2021 NHL Draft Picks (first 2 rounds only)

-- Canucks select Fyodor Svechkov 21st overall

-- Canucks select Scott Morrow 33rd overall

 

2021-22 assumptions:
-- Kraken is provided a sweetener in the form of Kole Lind to take Holtby

-- Beagle traded with $1M retained

-- Goodbye Virtanen

 

Assumptions for Future Years:

-- Boeser signs a $7M AAV extension

-- Horvat signs a $6.5M AAV extension

-- Miller signs a $7.5M AAV extension

-- Hogs and Podz get bridge deals at $4.5M AAV when ELCs are done

 

CapWithReinhart.jpg.fac4f20a233d4a76e3545d2c5c6b9bfd.jpg

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4 hours ago, Dats hockey said:

But apparently it’s sign Trotz become cup contender.

 

Almost like coaching and system Matter

They do matter. But you need those other pieces (and likely need them actually in their primes) as well.

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4 hours ago, HighOnHockey said:

 

Woah, how are you trying to include Schenn and Gaborik here? I had a good post about this not too long ago, but before I get to the explanation, lets just jump to some examples. You named 7 teams that won Cups, so lets look at 7 teams that didn't (yet?):

 

Arizona had top five picks in 2004 (5th) and 2007 (3rd), plus an 8th, an 8th and a 6th between 2006 and 2009.

 

New York Islanders had five(!) top five picks from 2009 to 2014 (1st, 5th, 5th, 4th, 5th).

 

New Jersey Devils had two first overall picks, in 2017 and 2019, and another coming up in 2021. We'll see where that goes, but let me know when you're planning to bet on them to win the Cup.

 

Florida Panthers had four top five picks from 2010 to 2014 (3rd, 3rd, 2nd, 1st).

 

Edmonton Oilers had six top five picks from 2010 to 2016, including four firsts (!), a third and a fourth. Maybe they will win a Cup yet, but you have to admit that kinda seems like overkill. Or based on your argument, you might even say it is greedy.

 

Buffalo Sabres had three top five picks between 2014 and 2018, including two firsts and a 3rd. Plus five more top ten picks between 2013 and 2020. Fingers crossed for them.

 

Toronto Maple Leafs also had three top five picks from 2012 to 2016 (fifth, fourth, first), plus 8th in 2014. Fingers crossed for them too. I hope every fan base that has to suffer through this gets rewarded, but the truth of the matter is only so many of them can.

 

Lets not even get into the Columbus Blue Jackets from 2000 to 2012.

 

I'm not saying high picks and lottery luck didn't help Chicago or Pittsburgh. Of course they would never have been what they were without Malkin, Crosby, Toews, Kane. But the point is you're looking it it from the wrong perspective. Those teams got very lucky that they won the lottery (which is even harder to get in the top two now) and also very lucky that players like those were available the years they sucked. Plus they still had to build strong teams around them. Every team goes through these cycles of ups and downs. It is literally the stated intention of the reverse-standings draft-order system. But sucking on purpose is what leads to those Islanders or Oilers teams.

 

Then you look at teams like Boston for their Cup in 2011 or Dallas for their Finals appearance in 2020, Nashville's Finals appearance in 2017  or even Winnipeg's run to the conference finals in 2018. All had just gone through a very brief retooling and had at least one top five pick, and then suddenly emerged as contending teams a couple years later, but although they may have added one key piece from the draft, those teams were overwhelmingly led by keen trade and free agent acquisitions, as well as the internal development of shrewd draft picks stockpiled from well before their tank years. Even Chicago, Kane and Toews were the centerpieces, but Skille and Barker had little to do with it. And major credit goes to Keith, Byfuglien and Seabrook, who were drafted well before the tank, and then masterful trade and free agent acquisitions like Patrick Sharp and Marian Hossa.

 

Every few years I like to make a list of the top ten GMs in the league. And generally the first criteria is Cup rings, but even without any Cups, give me Doug Wilson and David Poile every day of the week for the way they were able to keep San Jose and Nashville competitive for a decade and a half with very few major bumps in the road. Jim Nill is also doing great things in Dallas, not going through the traditional tear-it-down mentality, trading for Spezza and Seguin early on, and eventually making the Finals (yes, led by Heiskanen). All three made it to the Finals and lost to powerhouse teams led by Malkin, Crosby, Stamkos, Hedman, but hey, what are you gonna do?

I already acknowledged a lot of what you said initially. You missed this part of what I said.  
 

Overall it's how you build after you draft these players. Even with these players it still can take a while like in the Blues/Caps/Lightning's case. It's hard to win the cup, we should know that more than most teams given our 3 Finals appearances

 

 

I also pointed out that even with top picks it still is difficult and it still takes time. I pointed at the Blues/Caps/Lightning as examples. Even with two top 3 picks in the Sedona we tried and failed. 
 

I was mainly pointing at the fact of the matter. That these cup winners did have top picks, some of which helped a lot more than others, especially with the Hawks/Pens. It’s a significant part of their success. 
 

Never implied we should purposely suck but the fact of the matter in regards to these cup winners. 
 

You can point at the lot of teams that haven’t had success but I already pointed out that they do help if, key word I said was if, you build around them properly. Not to mentioned the fact that I brought up that even with those top picks it can take many years like in the Caps/Lightning/Blues where it took over 10 years after drafting some of these players and building properly. Also it’s still pretty early for some or those teams you mentioned in comparison to cup winners. Even Kings/Hawks/Penguins/Hawks took time with some of their runs. 
 

Nothing really changes the fact of the matter of what I said. Those teams won with those players. You could argue some helped more than others and that these teams had to build around them which I already acknowledged initially but it doesn’t change the fact of the matter. 

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4 hours ago, Dats hockey said:

So I’d like to point out the fact that it take a lot more than a top 5 pick on your team to win a cup plenty of team have down nothing with many top 5 picks.

 

In general you need to draft well through round 1-7. You need a elite talent or 2. Or solid goalie to can rely on. A solid d core 1-5 at least.

 

and look at the team remaining in the playoffs today and how they acquired their leading players

 

tampa being led by

Point 3rd rounder

Kucherov 2nd rounder

hedman 2AO

 

Vegas

Fluery Trade or expansion can’t remember

Stone trade

Petro UFA


 

isle

Pague Trade

Bailey 9th Ao

nelson 30AO

(Trots is the reason this team good)

 

Montreal

Price 5AO

Suzuki trade

toff UFA

perry ufa

stall trade

 

Top 2 picks aren’t everything.

They help but you want a winning culture better than being The devils Edmonton and sabres 

 

Like I said I already acknowledged it’s how you build after acquiring these players. 
 

Quote from my initial post again.
 

Overall it's how you build after you draft these players. Even with these players it still can take a while like in the Blues/Caps/Lightning's case. It's hard to win the cup, we should know that more than most teams given our 3 Finals appearances

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4 minutes ago, HKSR said:

I've posted this in the proposals section too, but thought I'd post it here as well since a lot of people seem to think we'll be in cap hell if we trade for Reinhart.  Here's my potential scenario that covers off the next 3 years (I've got year 4 and 5 too, but there's too many variables there):

 

TRADE #1

To Van:

Sam Reinhart

2021 33rd OA Pick (2nd Round)

 

To BUF:

2021 9th OA Pick (1st Round)

2021 41st OA Pick (2nd Round)

2021 73rd OA Pick (3rd Round)

Jack Rathbone

Antoine Roussel

 

VAN gets their Top 6 winger to play with Bo, and also get to move up in the 2nd round.

BUF gets the 9OA along with a heckuva prospect in Rathbone for Reinhart.  They move down 8 spots in the 2nd round but gain a 3rd round pick and a serviceable vet in Roussel.

 

TRADE #2

To Van:

2021 21st OA Pick (1st Round)

 

To BOS:

Nate Schmidt

Lukas Jasek

 

VAN recovers a 1st round pick, albeit a much later one.

BOS adds a very good defenceman to solidify their Top 4.  They look good on the RHD side, but could definitely use a defenceman like Schmidt on the LHD.  Also they gain a decent prospect in Jasek although signed in Europe for now.

 

UFA Signings and Extensions

-- Sign UFA Erik Haula at $2.5M x 5 years (he signs for this amount particularly due to the term)

-- Sign UFA David Savard at $4.5M x 5 years

-- Petey and Hughes extended on bridge deals at $7M x 3 years (was hoping $6.5M, but it looks more likely to be $7M at this point)

-- Re-sign Reinhart at $5.9M x 5 years (used William Karlsson as a comparable - he signed his deal in 2019-20)

-- Re-sign Hamonic at $2.5M x 3 years

-- Re-sign Edler at $2.25M for 1 year (and less as each year goes by)
 

2021 NHL Draft Picks (first 2 rounds only)

-- Canucks select Fyodor Svechkov 21st overall

-- Canucks select Scott Morrow 33rd overall

 

2021-22 assumptions:
-- Kraken is provided a sweetener in the form of Kole Lind to take Holtby

-- Beagle traded with $1M retained

-- Goodbye Virtanen

 

Assumptions for Future Years:

-- Boeser signs a $7M AAV extension

-- Horvat signs a $6.5M AAV extension

-- Miller signs a $7.5M AAV extension

-- Hogs and Podz get bridge deals at $4.5M AAV when ELCs are done

 

CapWithReinhart.jpg.fac4f20a233d4a76e3545d2c5c6b9bfd.jpg

There’s way too many assumptions in this. Free agents generally always get overpaid so in total you’re more then likely off in money for sure but also potentially term. There’s no way Boston makes that trade. There’s definitely no guarantee the Kraken take Holtby with Lind as a sweetener especially when they have the option of just take Lind and there’s going to be better goalies available to them. I can only assume (and hope) that very little of this post happens. I think you might be right on the Petey and Hughes deals but that’s about it 

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4 hours ago, Dats hockey said:

Also in those team listed to win cups you exclude players on those teams that weren’t drafted top5 that were KEY contributors

 

lightening Point Kucherov palat vasi killorn

chicago Keith seabrook sharp hossa

bruins Bergeron Thomas chara Marchand krecji

pitts letang guentzal kunitz Murray Shultz

King Quick carter Toff peason voynov muzzin 

Blues I honestly can’t remember many but tarasanko oreilly

Caps Carlson orlov kuznetsov Holtby 

 

and that’s off the top of the head

 

From my initial post. 
 

Overall it's how you build after you draft these players. Even with these players it still can take a while like in the Blues/Caps/Lightning's case. It's hard to win the cup, we should know that more than most teams given our 3 Finals appearances

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3 minutes ago, Marv-the-wet-bandit said:

There’s way too many assumptions in this. Free agents generally always get overpaid so in total you’re more then likely off in money for sure but also potentially term. There’s no way Boston makes that trade. There’s definitely no guarantee the Kraken take Holtby with Lind as a sweetener especially when they have the option of just take Lind and there’s going to be better goalies available to them. I can only assume (and hope) that very little of this post happens. I think you might be right on the Petey and Hughes deals but that’s about it 

So how much do you actually think someone like Haula and Savard would get?  Those are the only UFAs.

 

Why is there no way Boston makes the trade?

 

Why do you feel the Kraken wouldn't take Holtby if Lind is provided for free?

 

You basically shot down everything but have nothing to justify it lol.

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Just now, HKSR said:

So how much do you actually think someone like Haula and Savard would get?  Those are the only UFAs.

 

Why is there no way Boston makes the trade?

 

Why do you feel the Kraken wouldn't take Holtby if Lind is provided for free?

 

You basically shot down everything but have nothing to justify it lol.

Savard and Haula are going to have a big market, lots of teams don’t have cap space to

go after big fish and like I said free agents tend to get overpaid especially centres that provide good depth and RHD. Why would Boston accept that trade? They don’t have much cap space to bring Schmidt in, Schmidt’s value is at a low point right now. If they wanted him they could have had him for a 3rd and 7th last year when his value was higher and Jasek doesn’t move the needle on a deal like that. If he can’t crack Van he’s not going to crack Bos. Why add Holtby when there’s going to be better goalies left unprotected and he comes with more cap then he’s worth? For Lind? A guy that’s going to be available to them anyway? It doesn’t make any sense. I didn’t think I needed to

justify every reason because it’s just common sense. I can’t imagine many posters on this board will agree with you. You will get a couple, because when there’s a big group of people some are bound to be crazy or just assume it’ll work but there’s zero chance most of that happens. And look at the logistics you’ve thrown out to make a Reinhart trade happen. I’m not trying to clown the post but it just doesn’t add up. You can try all these things in NHL 21 but look at the logistical nightmare you’ve created to try and fit Reinhart on the team

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15 minutes ago, HKSR said:

So how much do you actually think someone like Haula and Savard would get?  Those are the only UFAs.

 

Why is there no way Boston makes the trade?

 

Why do you feel the Kraken wouldn't take Holtby if Lind is provided for free?

 

You basically shot down everything but have nothing to justify it lol.

I would say Haula gets $2.25 over 3 or 4, Savard ... $4.5 over 4. Kraken won't take Holtby and won't pay for him in order to take a player they can get for free in a matter of days or months.

 

Disclaimer: I typed this before I looked at your numbers ... haha we're dead on in money but I would never sign sign a five year deal with those guys. that would be absolutely brutal.

 

Interesting trade, value is a little off though considering we traded a third and he had a down year, and Boston has an internal cap, plus a plethora of RD on hand.

 

Good work though.

 

 

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18 minutes ago, Marv-the-wet-bandit said:

Savard and Haula are going to have a big market, lots of teams don’t have cap space to

go after big fish and like I said free agents tend to get overpaid especially centres that provide good depth and RHD. Why would Boston accept that trade? They don’t have much cap space to bring Schmidt in, Schmidt’s value is at a low point right now. If they wanted him they could have had him for a 3rd and 7th last year when his value was higher and Jasek doesn’t move the needle on a deal like that. If he can’t crack Van he’s not going to crack Bos. Why add Holtby when there’s going to be better goalies left unprotected and he comes with more cap then he’s worth? For Lind? A guy that’s going to be available to them anyway? It doesn’t make any sense. I didn’t think I needed to

justify every reason because it’s just common sense. I can’t imagine many posters on this board will agree with you. You will get a couple, because when there’s a big group of people some are bound to be crazy or just assume it’ll work but there’s zero chance most of that happens. And look at the logistics you’ve thrown out to make a Reinhart trade happen. I’m not trying to clown the post but it just doesn’t add up. You can try all these things in NHL 21 but look at the logistical nightmare you’ve created to try and fit Reinhart on the team

You lost all credibility on your hockey knowledge right there.  The Bruins actually have 11 forwards and 7 defencemen under contract for next season already and have nearly $27M in cap space to spend (Rask, Krejci and Hall make up $18M of that).  They have plenty of money to spend since Krejci and Hall are likely not returning.

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12 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

I would say Haula gets $2.25 over 3 or 4, Savard ... $4.5 over 4. Kraken won't take Holtby and won't pay for him in order to take a player they can get for free in a matter of days or months.

 

Disclaimer: I typed this before I looked at your numbers ... haha we're dead on in money but I would never sign sign a five year deal with those guys. that would be absolutely brutal.

 

Interesting trade, value is a little off though considering we traded a third and he had a down year, and Boston has an internal cap, plus a plethora of RD on hand.

 

Good work though.

 

 

Haha awesome.  Bang on with the UFA dollars. I just felt that UFAs typically want security in their deals, hence the longer terms that are usually handed out.

 

As you mentioned, Boston has plenty of RHD and need LHD (which is Schmidt).

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1 minute ago, HKSR said:

You lost all credibility on your hockey knowledge right there.  The Bruins actually have 11 forwards and 7 defencemen under contract for next season already and have nearly $27M in cap space to spend (Rask, Krejci and Hall make up $18M of that).  They have plenty of money to spend since Krejci and Hall are likely not returning.

Hall is definitely returning to boston. 

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