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2021 NHL Entry Draft


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1 hour ago, Alflives said:

Who was the last WHL winger we picked top ten?  

Is your argument against picking Dylan Guenther the fact that Jake Virtanen didn't turn out? Do we even need to get into the conversation of draft expectation (the Bob father has Dylan at 2, while Jake was a reach)? Or the fact that they play completely different styles of games? Or came from different organizations? Or... You know what.. nevermind.

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1 hour ago, hammertime said:

So this seems to come up a lot......

 

Aside from both having elite skill and frail frame. I don't see the comparison.

 

Pete had high end vision and defensive awareness at that age that I just don't see from Johnson. 

 

 

 

 

Me either. I see a lot of Teravainen in Johnson which for me isn't bad thing. If Johnson can learn to play with more pace, I think he can be an excellent player.

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3 minutes ago, shayster007 said:

Is your argument against picking Dylan Guenther the fact that Jake Virtanen didn't turn out? Do we even need to get into the conversation of draft expectation (the Bob father has Dylan at 2, while Jake was a reach)? Or the fact that they play completely different styles of games? Or came from different organizations? Or... You know what.. nevermind.

I do think Jake was a much more divisive pick back in the day.

 

Guenther is looking to be more in the can't miss category where some scouts had Jake ranked much lower and Button even had him in the lower part of the second round.

 

I think the big difference being that Virtanen was a man playin among boys as he developed phyically and relyed too much on that aspect of his game and that doesn't bode well in the NHL. 

 

For Alf's benefit, Guenther is a different type of player. Yes he is similar in being a great skater with excellent acceleration and plays the wing in the WHL but the similarities really stop there. 

Guenther is better rounded as scoouts have him as a great playmaker with excellent vision who is strong in the defensive end.

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9 minutes ago, hammertime said:

If Beniers, Eklund, McTavish are also gone. I could get on team Wally too.

My gut tells me McT will be there at 9 tbh. 

 

Power

Beniers

Eklund

Hughes

Guenther 

Johnson

Edvisson

Clarke 

 

Available: 

Wally, McT 

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3 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

Brock Boeser 2.0?

 

 

There's a quote from his coach in an article from the Athletic saying that he's "the Tom Brady of hockey", referring to the fact that that he didn't let his knee injury bog him down and that absolutely nothing phases him. He really seems to be cut from a different cloth in regards to how he handles himself at such a young age.

 

McDavid was able to make a full recovery after his knee procedure. I'm sure teams will have the full insider regarding his knee. He's definitely a top-15 prospect in his draft. Could be a sleeper at our pick. 

Edited by Herberts Vasiljevs
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@HighOnHockey

 

Hey, here is something that might tickle your fancy

 

What about Braden Schneider (2020-1st 19OA) for our 2021-9th?

 

Schneider was a mid first in a deep draft, the rangers are deep on the RHD, and depending on who is available, maybe they would make that trade?

 

I know they are high on him, but Trouba is not going anywhere soon and Fox, and Lundkvist are penciled in for years to come too.....soooooo

 

Thoughts?

 

 

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1 hour ago, GarthButcher5 said:

I do think Jake was a much more divisive pick back in the day.

 

Guenther is looking to be more in the can't miss category where some scouts had Jake ranked much lower and Button even had him in the lower part of the second round.

 

I think the big difference being that Virtanen was a man playin among boys as he developed phyically and relyed too much on that aspect of his game and that doesn't bode well in the NHL. 

 

For Alf's benefit, Guenther is a different type of player. Yes he is similar in being a great skater with excellent acceleration and plays the wing in the WHL but the similarities really stop there. 

Guenther is better rounded as scoouts have him as a great playmaker with excellent vision who is strong in the defensive end.

Great shot as well. I think McTavish might have the best shot in the top of the draft, but Guenther is right up there. He skates well, is shifty, has a rocket one timer, is strong defensively with his stick and smart. Onces he fills out and starts using his body more he is going to be a hell of a player. Our top 6 with both him and Boeser on the wings would be delicious. Clarke, Eklund, and Guenther (in that order) are my top 3 I would love to see the Canucks draft, but I doubt any of them make it to us. 

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1 hour ago, janisahockeynut said:

@HighOnHockey

 

Hey, here is something that might tickle your fancy

 

What about Braden Schneider (2020-1st 19OA) for our 2021-9th?

 

Schneider was a mid first in a deep draft, the rangers are deep on the RHD, and depending on who is available, maybe they would make that trade?

 

I know they are high on him, but Trouba is not going anywhere soon and Fox, and Lundkvist are penciled in for years to come too.....soooooo

 

Thoughts?

 

 

Yes oh yes but rather we send rathbone with 9OA for schneider and rangers 15OA

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56 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

@HighOnHockey

 

Hey, here is something that might tickle your fancy

 

What about Braden Schneider (2020-1st 19OA) for our 2021-9th?

 

Schneider was a mid first in a deep draft, the rangers are deep on the RHD, and depending on who is available, maybe they would make that trade?

 

I know they are high on him, but Trouba is not going anywhere soon and Fox, and Lundkvist are penciled in for years to come too.....soooooo

 

Thoughts?

 

 

Ugh. I am not a fan of Braden Schneider. Arguably the best defensive defenseman of the 2020 class, and he has some solid skills, but he falls to pieces on the breakout under pressure. And in the NHL the breakout is always under heavy pressure. I expect he'll end up an NHL player in some capacity. Old school hockey people and his coaches will love him. He'll clear his crease, block shots, make good reads and keep things simple; he'll certainly be a PK specialist. But the analytics people are gonna hate him. I suspect the overall perception of him will depend on his role. If he were to end up, like a Cody Ceci or Rasmus Ristolainen, on a weak team where he's relied upon to play big minutes and be the be the go-to guy against opponents' top lines, he's going to get eaten alive. If, on the other hand, he's well-insulated on a good team and slotted in the middle of the lineup, he'll be ok. But he's just not my type of player. And especially losing value on a 19th overall pick (I had him mid 30s) for 9th overall just a year later. You could say he's increased his value with the offensive numbers he had this year, but to me it's no surprise; I've always said he's pretty good in the offensive zone, it's just getting the puck out of his own zone he has trouble with.

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2 hours ago, GarthButcher5 said:

I do think Jake was a much more divisive pick back in the day.

 

Guenther is looking to be more in the can't miss category where some scouts had Jake ranked much lower and Button even had him in the lower part of the second round.

 

I think the big difference being that Virtanen was a man playin among boys as he developed phyically and relyed too much on that aspect of his game and that doesn't bode well in the NHL. 

 

For Alf's benefit, Guenther is a different type of player. Yes he is similar in being a great skater with excellent acceleration and plays the wing in the WHL but the similarities really stop there. 

Guenther is better rounded as scoouts have him as a great playmaker with excellent vision who is strong in the defensive end.

The one thing I think is under-rated with Guenther is his hockey sense. Plays such a pro-style game. Nobody in the draft can execute a chip and chase like Guenther. He took some heat for being less than stellar at U18s, but I thought he was better than given credit for. He's certainly not the flashiest player in the draft, and he doesn't have McTavish's playmaking ability, but he was the guy behind the scenes making things happen. His teammates are cycling the puck high in the zone, he's the guy battling in front of the net. His linemates get in hard on the forecheck to create a turnover, he's the guy back in perfect position taking away two passing options. And yeah, very solid defensively. His playmaking is pretty good, but I don't expect him to be a play-driver in the NHL. Offensively his two biggest strengths are a. his one-on-ones, where he can deke, shoot through guys, or use his speed and strength to lean in and skate around them, and b. setting up on the left halfwall on the powerplay, where his vision and passing are pretty good, but his shot is the main course.

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36 minutes ago, HighOnHockey said:

Ugh. I am not a fan of Braden Schneider. Arguably the best defensive defenseman of the 2020 class, and he has some solid skills, but he falls to pieces on the breakout under pressure. And in the NHL the breakout is always under heavy pressure. I expect he'll end up an NHL player in some capacity. Old school hockey people and his coaches will love him. He'll clear his crease, block shots, make good reads and keep things simple; he'll certainly be a PK specialist. But the analytics people are gonna hate him. I suspect the overall perception of him will depend on his role. If he were to end up, like a Cody Ceci or Rasmus Ristolainen, on a weak team where he's relied upon to play big minutes and be the be the go-to guy against opponents' top lines, he's going to get eaten alive. If, on the other hand, he's well-insulated on a good team and slotted in the middle of the lineup, he'll be ok. But he's just not my type of player. And especially losing value on a 19th overall pick (I had him mid 30s) for 9th overall just a year later. You could say he's increased his value with the offensive numbers he had this year, but to me it's no surprise; I've always said he's pretty good in the offensive zone, it's just getting the puck out of his own zone he has trouble with.

I read his scouting report

 

I have a different opinion of him than you, and for my 2 cents worth, I am wondering if he is not exactly what Hughes needs to be more effective. Basically, the report echo's you pluses, but also stated that he plays a solid 200 ft game, and although not an elite offensive dman, could play on the 2nd PP sometime down the road. My question is this..........

 

Could you see a 

 

Hughes       Schneider

Rathbone    Woo 

 

Top 4 down the road?

 

I mean, a 6'2" 210 lb 19 year old best defensive defenseman is exactly what Hughes needs......long term

 

I would also say that a 19 OA in 2020 is much closer to a 9th in 2021, than in normal years, wouldn't you say.....

 

I am not trying to prove you wrong, more so having a learning conversation......

 

cheers

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1 hour ago, janisahockeynut said:

I read his scouting report

 

I have a different opinion of him than you, and for my 2 cents worth, I am wondering if he is not exactly what Hughes needs to be more effective. Basically, the report echo's you pluses, but also stated that he plays a solid 200 ft game, and although not an elite offensive dman, could play on the 2nd PP sometime down the road. My question is this..........

 

Could you see a 

 

Hughes       Schneider

Rathbone    Woo 

 

Top 4 down the road?

 

I mean, a 6'2" 210 lb 19 year old best defensive defenseman is exactly what Hughes needs......long term

 

I would also say that a 19 OA in 2020 is much closer to a 9th in 2021, than in normal years, wouldn't you say.....

 

I am not trying to prove you wrong, more so having a learning conversation......

 

cheers

Haha this place is so much different than HF. "Why are people so polite? Why are they so understanding?" - Terence McKenna. Please, prove me wrong, I promise my feelings won't get hurt.

 

Anyway, I agreed he's a decent offensive defenseman. Solid skating and puck skills, and I actually think there are some things to really like from him on the offensive blueline, certainly at least at the junior level. Doubt he'll actually be a regular option on an NHL powerplay since most teams only have two spots for D now (one on each unit), but I don't disagree with the sentiment, the offensive zone is not an area of weakness for him. I've even seen him make some excellent breakout passes in junior. My sole concern is how he handles pressure on the breakout. It's one area of the game where you see some of the most glaring discrepancy between junior and the NHL, is the forecheck. Players are so fast, so smart, systems are executed so well. In junior you just don't see anything like the kind of pressure defensemen face at the NHL level. So yeah, most of the time Schneider was able to make breakout plays without issue, and good ones. He makes a hard, accurate first pass. But the occasional times he faced heavy pressure, he was never able to execute with pace and precision.

 

In the NHL, that occasional heavy pressure is the norm. Schneider's skill and hockey sense are just fine, but I don't believe he is able to read, react, and execute at a quick enough pace. And so he's going to spend a lot of time in his own zone. If there wasn't so much to like about the rest of his game (especially defending in his own zone), then it would be easy to just say he's going to bust. But Schneider is a little more complicated than that. Like I said, I think he'll be a decent NHL player, and a hell of a PKer, and he might even put up some points, but analytics folks are gonna rake him over the coals.

 

On the point about pairing him with Hughes so they can cover eachothers' weaknesses, that is one school of thought. But I was just saying to someone else earlier, I don't think it is the best option for Hughes. Hughes' corsi is actually pretty strongly positive. He doesn't spend a lot of time in his own zone, but when he does, he's in trouble  It's nice to think in theory that one player can defend for the both of them, and the other can make breakout plays for the both of them, but I'd be worried that opponents would gameplan to target Hughes' side of the ice, and if his shutdown defense partner has trouble making breakout plays, it's not always as easy as just get it over to Hughes, and they could end up spending a lot of time in their own zone, which would just make matters worse for Hughes. My opinion is that it would be better to find a partner for Hughes who can defend reasonably well in his own zone, but also can keep up with Hughes up and down the ice to support the puck, someone who can skate and defend through the neutral zone to prevent zone entries in the first place, and someone who can make zone exits themselves, so that Hughes has to spend as little time in his own zone as possible.

 

And no, I have no idea who might be available to fit that description. And no, I didn't think of that idea on my own - it's exactly what Colorado did so brilliantly in adding Devon Toews to support Makar and Girard.

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12 hours ago, flickyoursedin said:

Yeah that was bad asset management. Should have signed Toffoli and tried to trade Pearson for futures to make room. Management has done a great job drafting lately but that doesn’t mean you should be giving away good prospects and picks for 17 games of a guy. Cycle in our top prospects while trading out the vets for more picks and prospects. Or couple these guys together for somebody with term or a sign and trade guy. 

Meh. Madden wasn't clearly in the Canucks plans.

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12 hours ago, Bertuzzipunch said:

Yes oh yes but rather we send rathbone with 9OA for schneider and rangers 15OA

if it takes pick #9 to get Schneider, there is no chance in hell Rathbone gets 15th overal...I love the Canucks prospects too but this is very laughable to think that is the kind of value OTHER teams have regarding Rathbone in his small sample size. 

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1 hour ago, Canuckster86 said:

if it takes pick #9 to get Schneider, there is no chance in hell Rathbone gets 15th overal...I love the Canucks prospects too but this is very laughable to think that is the kind of value OTHER teams have regarding Rathbone in his small sample size. 

I do get what you mean about small sample size with Rathbone, but it is really not. They have alot of film on his play at Harvard, pretty much like they have alot of film on Schneider in his time as a amateur, and they have extra game film and stats of Rathbone during his time on the Canucks and Utica, if anything it's Schneider that is in question

 

Personally, all these guys that want us to include Rathbone in trades are just plain silly, as he has shown above average ability when playing in the NHL, a much more rounded Dman than Hughes, IMO.....very much a Doug Lidster type, to me, and one, you just don't give away.

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18 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

I do get what you mean about small sample size with Rathbone, but it is really not. They have alot of film on his play at Harvard, pretty much like they have alot of film on Schneider in his time as a amateur, and they have extra game film and stats of Rathbone during his time on the Canucks and Utica, if anything it's Schneider that is in question

 

Personally, all these guys that want us to include Rathbone in trades are just plain silly, as he has shown above average ability when playing in the NHL, a much more rounded Dman than Hughes, IMO.....very much a Doug Lidster type, to me, and one, you just don't give away.

Whos giving away? Us receiving schneider and the rangers first rounder seems like good value  

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