2021 NHL Entry Draft

[Gawdzukes]

 

8 minutes ago, HighOnHockey said:

I've said before,I thought Guenther's U18 was under-rated. He's not flashy, but does all the little things right. As I put it, where his teammates were getting credit for scoring goals off the high cycle, Guenther was the guy parked in front of the net. Where his linemates got the credit for getting in hard on the forecheck to casue a turnover, he was the man back in perfect position to eliminate passing lanes.

 

Guenther's season even on paper may look strange at first glance, but it made perfect sense to me. In the WHL amongst older, bigger, stronger, wiser players on average, his hockey IQ and mature style of play allowed him to thrive, but at the U18s where players are smaller and weaker and not as familiar with playing higher-level defensive systems, but on average more purely skilled, it makes sense that Guenther wouldn't stand out as much.

Yeah, also when you're winning some players are quite content to fly under the radar and do the the little things that help you keep winning. I know when I played I was overjoyed when I didn't have to shine but I knew we were on our way to Gold.

 

I just wanted to say thanks HIGHonHockey, for all your insights. Great work! Also, wanted to plus you but that +420 looking good on ya! 

[86Viking]

17 hours ago, NUCKER67 said:

If the Canucks draft Guenther, they'll still have real issues at C. There's no depth. I hope they draft a C or D with the #9, or trade it for an extra pick and a player to help them now

that is why if at our pick it means we are reaching to draft a C or RHD in say Svechkov or Ceulmans then I think the smart choice would be to move down 2-3 spots and collect an additional pick then see who is still left and possibly move down again to grab another mid round pick. If we moved down twice to say 15-18 overall and get 1 of Svechkov or Ceulmans and gain 2 additional picks for this draft or next I believe that having those extra bullets in the barrel is a wise choice for our team moving forward.

[HighOnHockey]

3 hours ago, Dazzle said:

You did support the Petey pick. I remember going through the thread several times and your name didn't stick out like some people's, like messier's elbow. LOL. Well, to his credit, he realized the error of his ways and recanted what he said after about an hour or so.

 

It's actually surprising that the most negative of the posters of the pick aren't usually found here - HFBoards is a cesspool.

Yeah I dunno how many people would remember, but there was a time when HF was the place for intelligent, reasonable discussion among people who closely follow the draft and prospects. Makes me think of the movie Social Network, in that they followed the Facebook model - make it the cool spot for smart people first, and then the masses followed. There are still some incredibly insightful, informed people over there, but they're drowning in the swamp.

Edited June 28, 2021 by HighOnHockey

[stawns]

8 hours ago, R3aL said:

One of Guenther best qualities is his hockey IQ. The same cannot be said for our last top 10 pick from the WHL. Quite the opposite actually.

[theo5789]

1 minute ago, stawns said:

This is why we shouldn't draft him. He never gets his ultimate prize!

[HKSR]

45 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

43 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

This is why we shouldn't draft him. He never gets his ultimate prize!

Sad that the guy has terminal cancer now

[Sp3nny]

2 hours ago, HighOnHockey said:

I've said before,I thought Guenther's U18 was under-rated. He's not flashy, but does all the little things right. As I put it, where his teammates were getting credit for scoring goals off the high cycle, Guenther was the guy parked in front of the net. Where his linemates got the credit for getting in hard on the forecheck to casue a turnover, he was the man back in perfect position to eliminate passing lanes.

 

Guenther's season even on paper may look strange at first glance, but it made perfect sense to me. In the WHL amongst older, bigger, stronger, wiser players on average, his hockey IQ and mature style of play allowed him to thrive, but at the U18s where players are smaller and weaker and not as familiar with playing higher-level defensive systems, but on average more purely skilled, it makes sense that Guenther wouldn't stand out as much.

Do you (or anyone for that matter) think Guenther is as good as his small WHL sample size this year indicates? I made a post a while back about his shooting % being potentially inflated, and also about some high scoring games he was in (he had three 4-point games, which meant 25% of games played were 4-point, along with a couple 3-point nights). I'm not trying to pick him apart, it's just hard when you are dealing with a small sample size, which isn't their fault, it's just the hand that they and we as amateur scouts, have been dealt this draft.

 

Reason I ask is I haven't been overly impressed with him in my viewings, and I'm thinking it must be me by this point as many have nothing but stellar things to say.

[Gawdzukes]

27 minutes ago, Sp3nny said:

Do you (or anyone for that matter) think Guenther is as good as his small WHL sample size this year indicates? I made a post a while back about his shooting % being potentially inflated, and also about some high scoring games he was in (he had three 4-point games, which meant 25% of games played were 4-point, along with a couple 3-point nights). I'm not trying to pick him apart, it's just hard when you are dealing with a small sample size, which isn't their fault, it's just the hand that they and we as amateur scouts, have been dealt this draft.

 

Reason I ask is I haven't been overly impressed with him in my viewings, and I'm thinking it must be me by this point as many have nothing but stellar things to say.

He was the number 1 bantam pick in 2018. Stats for a second year player of this stature often lead to a big jump in ppg so I'm thinking this could be legit. Hard to tell with a small sample size but that many multiple point games is noteworthy in itself.

[Guest]

Guys, we aren’t drafting for needs, especially not with the 1st and 2nd round picks.  
 

If you watch that video that I posted on the last page, Weisbrod states it explicitly.

[Wolfgang Durst]

One of Guenther best qualities is his hockey IQ. The same cannot be said for our last top 10 pick from the WHL. Quite the opposite actually.

1 hour ago, stawns said:

R3aL is right with his comment 

"One of Guenther best qualities is his hockey IQ. The same cannot be said for our last top 10 pick from the WHL. Quite the opposite actually. "

 

He (Guenther) said in his TSN interview that he believes his hockey IQ is his greatest asset and that is spot on.

 

I think you as a Canucks fan have watched tons of Canucks games and even with only a very limited hockey unterstanding you should have noticed that Jake Virtanen has a very low hockey IQ.

 

I recommend, that you watch some Trevor Zegras game footage then you will instantly see what Hockey IQ is and then you will also realize that Virtanen's hockey IQ is very low.

 

[Wolfgang Durst]

8 minutes ago, VancouverHabitant said:

Guys, we aren’t drafting for needs, especially not with the 1st and 2nd round picks.  
 

If you watch that video that I posted on the last page, Weisbrod states it explicitly.

Guenther could very well be BPA at 9.

Let's assume that Power, Eklund, Beniers, Mc Tavish, Johnson, Clarke, Edvinsson, Hughes are gone and Guenther is still on the board. In this case which is certainly very likely is Guenther the BPA - the clear BPA - .

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Wolfgang Durst said:

One of Guenther best qualities is his hockey IQ. The same cannot be said for our last top 10 pick from the WHL. Quite the opposite actually.

R3aL is right with his comment 

"One of Guenther best qualities is his hockey IQ. The same cannot be said for our last top 10 pick from the WHL. Quite the opposite actually. "

 

He (Guenther) said in his TSN interview that he believes his hockey IQ is his greatest asset and that is spot on.

 

I think you as a Canucks fan have watched tons of Canucks games and even with only a very limited hockey unterstanding you should have noticed that Jake Virtanen has a very low hockey IQ.

 

I recommend, that you watch some Trevor Zegras game footage then you will instantly see what Hockey IQ is and then you will also realize that Virtanen's hockey IQ is very low.

 

If we are talking about limitations, then I would say that Jake’s drive to improve is on the low side as well.  
 

However Jake has scored 20 goals in this league and I think can hit 30 if he gets traded to the right team... everyone is talking

about him as if he never made it to the NHL. 

[MeanSeanBean]

1 minute ago, Wolfgang Durst said:

Guenther could very well be BPA at 9.

Let's assume that Power, Eklund, Beniers, Mc Tavish, Johnson, Clarke, Edvinsson, Hughes are gone and Guenther is still on the board. In this case which is certainly very likely is Guenther the BPA - the clear BPA - .

I will be estatic if we some how walk away with Guenther at 9. I personally think he's BPA at 4. I think the fact that he is a winger in a draft with a ton of D's and some solid C's at the top is the only reason he will slip, if he does.

[HighOnHockey]

35 minutes ago, Sp3nny said:

Do you (or anyone for that matter) think Guenther is as good as his small WHL sample size this year indicates? I made a post a while back about his shooting % being potentially inflated, and also about some high scoring games he was in (he had three 4-point games, which meant 25% of games played were 4-point, along with a couple 3-point nights). I'm not trying to pick him apart, it's just hard when you are dealing with a small sample size, which isn't their fault, it's just the hand that they and we as amateur scouts, have been dealt this draft.

 

Reason I ask is I haven't been overly impressed with him in my viewings, and I'm thinking it must be me by this point as many have nothing but stellar things to say.

Not as good as the WHL sample indicates, no. Two points per game in any CHL league for a 17 year old makes for a first overall pick generally. Edmonton was a powerhouse this year, which worked perfectly for Guenther, who is at his best as a complimentary offensive player.

 

He's not one of my favorite players in the draft - think I have him ranked 8 or 9, but he's just about as safe a pick as there is in the draft. And given how risk-averse NHL teams tend to be, I expect he'll go a little earlier than I have him ranked. Not the most exciting player in the class, but I see him as turning out something along the lines  of players like Nino Niederreiter, Kyle Palmieri, T.J. Oshie, Alex Killorn, with Max Pacioretty as a kind of ceiling. But I believe the closest comparison will be Palmieri.

[Sp3nny]

3 minutes ago, HighOnHockey said:

Not as good as the WHL sample indicates, no. Two points per game in any CHL league for a 17 year old makes for a first overall pick generally. Edmonton was a powerhouse this year, which worked perfectly for Guenther, who is at his best as a complimentary offensive player.

 

He's not one of my favorite players in the draft - think I have him ranked 8 or 9, but he's just about as safe a pick as there is in the draft. And given how risk-averse NHL teams tend to be, I expect he'll go a little earlier than I have him ranked. Not the most exciting player in the class, but I see him as turning out something along the lines  of players like Nino Niederreiter, Kyle Palmieri, T.J. Oshie, Alex Killorn, with Max Pacioretty as a kind of ceiling. But I believe the closest comparison will be Palmieri.

I was looking through the statistics on WHL seasons to find comparable, but their aren't a lot of guys in the last 20 years to carry a 2 PPG in the WHL, which is what startled me, as this would be very impressive. But when I watch him, I don't come away thinking he is ultra lethal, as he doesn't seem to have any standout quality (speed, shot etc) that puts him head and shoulders above the competition. He has a nice toolbox though of speed, size, shot.

 

Your summary is almost exactly my takeaway from him as well. I see him as a great complimentary piece with a nice skillet, but I don't see the high end creativity and play-driving that I put a lot of value into. I think this is why I haven't enjoyed him as much as others have. He should still be a nice addition for any team that gets him.

[Sp3nny]

32 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

He was the number 1 bantam pick in 2018. Stats for a second year player of this stature often lead to a big jump in ppg so I'm thinking this could be legit. Hard to tell with a small sample size but that many multiple point games is noteworthy in itself.

For sure the multi point games are impressive, but it always leads me to question "was the opposing goalie having a bad night? Was the team having breakdowns defensively?" The games were 7-1, 7-1, and 6-1 if I remember correctly, so it doesn't seem like much of a fight. Edmonton's top line also seems quite dominant, so was it Guenther being the driver, or riding shotgun? In the last 20 years, few players have managed a 2 PPG over a season, and most of them were 18+. So while very impressive, I have a hard time believing this was sustainable. And that's why I am asking the questions about him, to see if I'm looking at it wrong or missing something.

 

Remember, Virtanen was also a #1 bantam pick in 2011. I'm not comparing the two, as Virtanen never came close to 2 PPG, just adding context.

[Gawdzukes]

20 minutes ago, Sp3nny said:

For sure the multi point games are impressive, but it always leads me to question "was the opposing goalie having a bad night? Was the team having breakdowns defensively?" The games were 7-1, 7-1, and 6-1 if I remember correctly, so it doesn't seem like much of a fight. Edmonton's top line also seems quite dominant, so was it Guenther being the driver, or riding shotgun? In the last 20 years, few players have managed a 2 PPG over a season, and most of them were 18+. So while very impressive, I have a hard time believing this was sustainable. And that's why I am asking the questions about him, to see if I'm looking at it wrong or missing something.

 

Remember, Virtanen was also a #1 bantam pick in 2011. I'm not comparing the two, as Virtanen never came close to 2 PPG, just adding context.

Makes sense, I think they played the same 2 or 3 teams every game as well. Now I'm hoping he goes early.  

[Alflives]

25 minutes ago, Sp3nny said:

For sure the multi point games are impressive, but it always leads me to question "was the opposing goalie having a bad night? Was the team having breakdowns defensively?" The games were 7-1, 7-1, and 6-1 if I remember correctly, so it doesn't seem like much of a fight. Edmonton's top line also seems quite dominant, so was it Guenther being the driver, or riding shotgun? In the last 20 years, few players have managed a 2 PPG over a season, and most of them were 18+. So while very impressive, I have a hard time believing this was sustainable. And that's why I am asking the questions about him, to see if I'm looking at it wrong or missing something.

 

Remember, Virtanen was also a #1 bantam pick in 2011. I'm not comparing the two, as Virtanen never came close to 2 PPG, just adding context.

Exactly.  Level of competition means a lot.  And in the best on best of his peers (U18’s) Geunther was very average.  I hope he’s taken before we pick, because imo we should stay clear of this guy.  

[HighOnHockey]

I've been complaining about not enough available footage on Eklund for someone who is/ought to be in serious contention for first overall. Managed to find two Sweden games from the 2019 fall 5 nations U18s. As one of the youngest and smallest players on the team, he was playing on the third line. One of the things you just love to see from a player is that you always recognize them on the ice. You don't need to be watching for him, as soon as he gets the puck on his stick and starts moving around you're like "oh, there's Eklund." I mentioned recently he needs to add more power to his skating, but not by all that much. Give him three strides and he's going, it's just that first step or two could use more oomph. And reminiscent of a Stranges, Drysdale or Amirov from last year's draft, he accelerates beautifully in any direction. I mean, of course nobody will ever be Antonio Stranges, but man Eklund is a treat to watch move around the ice in his own right.

 

His hockey IQ is off the charts, but it's not just how well he thinks the game, but how quickly he thinks the game - most prospects have major issues making the jump from junior to pro mostly because of the increase in pace, but you can see why Eklund made such a seamless transition. It's like the game slows down for him when he has the puck on his stick, and he can do multiple things in a single instant - reading the play and reacting with both his hands and feet simultaneously before most players would know what is happening.

 

He's also very intelligent, committed and responsible in his own zone. Sure the size will be a bit of a problem in the NHL but the number of times he's lifted sticks to prevent scoring chances around his own net in this one game I watched so far today, lets just say it's abnormal.

[Marv-the-wet-bandit]

3 minutes ago, HighOnHockey said:

I've been complaining about not enough available footage on Eklund for someone who is/ought to be in serious contention for first overall. Managed to find two Sweden games from the 2019 fall 5 nations U18s. As one of the youngest and smallest players on the team, he was playing on the third line. One of the things you just love to see from a player is that you always recognize them on the ice. You don't need to be watching for him, as soon as he gets the puck on his stick and starts moving around you're like "oh, there's Eklund." I mentioned recently he needs to add more power to his skating, but not by all that much. Give him three strides and he's going, it's just that first step or two could use more oomph. And reminiscent of a Stranges, Drysdale or Amirov from last year's draft, he accelerates beautifully in any direction. I mean, of course nobody will ever be Antonio Stranges, but man Eklund is a treat to watch move around the ice in his own right.

 

His hockey IQ is off the charts, but it's not just how well he thinks the game, but how quickly he thinks the game - most prospects have major issues making the jump from junior to pro mostly because of the increase in pace, but you can see why Eklund made such a seamless transition. It's like the game slows down for him when he has the puck on his stick, and he can do multiple things in a single instant - reading the play and reacting with both his hands and feet simultaneously before most players would know what is happening.

 

He's also very intelligent, committed and responsible in his own zone. Sure the size will be a bit of a problem in the NHL but the number of times he's lifted sticks to prevent scoring chances around his own net in this one game I watched so far today, lets just say it's abnormal.

He doesn’t have the weight Nick Suzuki does but plays a similar game defensively with the way he breaks up plays and his active stick. I’m a massive fan of Eklund I just don’t see him being available to us which is really unfortunate.