Nate Schmidt | #88 | D

[smokes]

On 10/13/2020 at 7:38 PM, Nicklas Bo Hunter said:

maybe petro did not want to play in Vancouver?

 

At least ask the guy right?

[Law of Goalies]

2 hours ago, smokes said:

At least ask the guy right?

And you think he didn't?

[WeneedLumme]

13 hours ago, Law of Goalies said:

And you think he didn't?

A lot of people like to believe that JB is stupid, lazy, incompetent, etc. It's mostly projection.

[86Viking]

Schmidtty wore #2 & 5 in the AHL, anyone know what # he wore in College? Was hoping he would take a single digit number, wonder what # Tryamkin will wear if and hopefully when he returns next spring

[wildcam]

On October 20, 2020 at 2:46 PM, Canuckster86 said:

Schmidtty wore #2 & 5 in the AHL, anyone know what # he wore in College? Was hoping he would take a single digit number, wonder what # Tryamkin will wear if and hopefully when he returns next spring

I can see Tryamkin coming over after KHL season might have to wear maybe 80? Then Benn will not be resigned and Tryamkin will wear #8 ?

[Mackcanuck]

Nate is 3rd in the League in playing against toughest competition as D man!

 

Tough minutes

 

 

Edited November 9, 2020 by Mackcanuck

[PuckYa]

On 10/14/2020 at 10:24 PM, -AJ- said:

Offensively? Better than Myers there is a good case, but I'm not sure better than Edler. What numbers point to that?

@NUCKER67 

 

Numbers:  29 vs 35

In the past over there careers so far Edler has the edge.

Schmidt in the past few years has been at least on par with Edler or arguably better.
Edler going to be 35 yrs old next season & Schmidt 29 yrs old is and will continue to be the much better player moving forward.   

Schmidt was 1B Dman on a legit cup contending team. Playing top minutes against other teams top players. 

Edler was that player but is clearly not that player anymore. Schmidt is in his prime years still & we got him at a bargain price.

Schmidt is a legit 1/2 Dman, Edler is a 4/6 Dman now in his career.
Schmidt > Edler moving forward is much better. 
 

Edited November 9, 2020 by CoolCanucklehead

[aGENT]

6 hours ago, CoolCanucklehead said:

@NUCKER67 

 

Numbers:  29 vs 35

In the past over there careers so far Edler has the edge.

Schmidt in the past few years has been at least on par with Edler or arguably better.
Edler going to be 35 yrs old next season & Schmidt 29 yrs old is and will continue to be the much better player moving forward.   

Schmidt was 1B Dman on a legit cup contending team. Playing top minutes against other teams top players. 

Edler was that player but is clearly not that player anymore. Schmidt is in his prime years still & we got him at a bargain price.

Schmidt is a legit 1/2 Dman, Edler is a 4/6 Dman now in his career.
Schmidt > Edler moving forward is much better. 
 

You had me until the bolded.

 

[Phil_314]

10 hours ago, Mackcanuck said:

Nate is 3rd in the League in playing against toughest competition as D man!

 

Tough minutes

 

 

Begs the question... how far down that list is Tanev?  If he's coming in to replace Chris' matchup minutes and then some I'd like to know how much that "some" is.

[Chicken.]

16 hours ago, Phil_314 said:

Begs the question... how far down that list is Tanev?  If he's coming in to replace Chris' matchup minutes and then some I'd like to know how much that "some" is.

I am a bit surprised that Horvat is not on the list.  Or any other Canuck unless I am blind ?  I guess we roll all the lines more evenly

[Phil_314]

3 hours ago, Chicken. said:

I am a bit surprised that Horvat is not on the list.  Or any other Canuck unless I am blind ?  I guess we roll all the lines more evenly

It's a bit surprising to the fans who haven't delved into advanced stats (can't blame any of you) but Horvat isn't a match-up center really.  He may be good at draws and had those PK goals against St Louis but from what I've read he's far from a ROR or Patrice Bergeron that he was touted to become in his draft, not that he's not a top-6 center and leader but he's not the same caliber of horse (even compared with young guns like Danault or Cirelli) to have that same impact.  Same surprise exists for the fact that Mark Stone isn't on there either so Bo's not alone.  

[Alienhuggyflow]

On 10/17/2020 at 11:08 AM, kilgore said:

Thanks for the link.  I'm not going to go on about Stecher in Schimdt's thread, only to add that I think that narrative only indicates that management misjudged both Stecher and Toffoli.  Because it happened to both of them. Both felt "spurned".  I never got the impression Troy had any kind of attitude problem. So if two of them felt that way, then it's probably on the GM. Why not match Detroit right then? Does JB really think he can get a better, more loyal, #6 defenseman for 1.7? Baffling.

Joulevi has a far higher ceiling then Stech IMO, I think Rafferty and Woo can replace his minutes as well. If Joulevi makes the team and if no further moves are made then Benn or Rafferty would be replacing Stech. I don't see Stech as a big loss especially since it's time to see what we have in our rookies. I won't be surprised if Benn ends up as #7 or 8th or even waivers since Benning and Green have shown a willingness to make room in the past.

For me I see a guy like Stech as someone who struggles at any role with tough mins.

[aGENT]

On 10/17/2020 at 11:08 AM, kilgore said:

Thanks for the link.  I'm not going to go on about Stecher in Schimdt's thread, only to add that I think that narrative only indicates that management misjudged both Stecher and Toffoli.  Because it happened to both of them. Both felt "spurned".  I never got the impression Troy had any kind of attitude problem. So if two of them felt that way, then it's probably on the GM. Why not match Detroit right then? Does JB really think he can get a better, more loyal, #6 defenseman for 1.7? Baffling.

I think it's as simple as that Benning asked them to wait/be patient as they sorted things out. Evidently they were looking at moves to clear cap for Toffoli and were waiting on Vegas to sign AP/move Schmidt before committing to those other avenues.

 

Now understandably, those players (and their agents) were concerned about waiting too long given the special circumstances around this offseason, and their potential of being left without a chair when the music stops (see: Granlund, Hoffman Hamonic etc). So they decided to take the offers in front of them.

 

Not really baffling at all.

[JM_]

18 minutes ago, aGENT said:

I think it's as simple as that Benning asked them to wait/be patient as they sorted things out. Evidently they were looking at moves to clear cap for Toffoli and were waiting on Vegas to sign AP/move Schmidt before committing to those other avenues.

 

Now understandably, those players (and their agents) were concerned about waiting too long given the special circumstances around this offseason, and their potential of being left without a chair when the music stops (see: Granlund, Hoffman Hamonic etc). So they decided to take the offers in front of them.

 

Not really baffling at all.

I do think if Stecher had waited a day or two maybe he gets the same deal here as Detroit. But it is what it is. Benning made the decision to not pay to move Loui + covid cap. Its not hard to see why things shook out how they did.

 

The only surprise to me was getting Schmidt in the 1st place. I suspect every other team was asking for assets to take him and Benning was the only guy offering anything. Its been a month since the trade and nothing else has happened in the NHL, this was a hell of a move for such a weird year. 

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[alt kilgore]

15 hours ago, Alienhuggyflow said:

Joulevi has a far higher ceiling then Stech IMO, I think Rafferty and Woo can replace his minutes as well. If Joulevi makes the team and if no further moves are made then Benn or Rafferty would be replacing Stech. I don't see Stech as a big loss especially since it's time to see what we have in our rookies. I won't be surprised if Benn ends up as #7 or 8th or even waivers since Benning and Green have shown a willingness to make room in the past.

For me I see a guy like Stech as someone who struggles at any role with tough mins.

 

5 hours ago, aGENT said:

I think it's as simple as that Benning asked them to wait/be patient as they sorted things out. Evidently they were looking at moves to clear cap for Toffoli and were waiting on Vegas to sign AP/move Schmidt before committing to those other avenues.

 

Now understandably, those players (and their agents) were concerned about waiting too long given the special circumstances around this offseason, and their potential of being left without a chair when the music stops (see: Granlund, Hoffman Hamonic etc). So they decided to take the offers in front of them.

 

Not really baffling at all.

 

I may be the minority here, but IMO Stecher was underrated for what he brings, especially at that price. 

I could see that with just the eye test, But lets look at his 2019/2020 stat highlights, looking at our defence:

https://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/teams/vancouver-canucks-defensemen-2019-20-nhl-stats.html

 

Third place tie with Edler, 5, goals overall......without PP time.

+10  Only Quinn Hughes had a better +/- @ 13

Related to that....tied with Quinn for 1st with 5 goals at even strength.

4th highest in even strength points ahead of Myers.

Second behind Quinn for shot percentage

 

Add to that a local kid, who loved playing for the Canucks. Gave his all every shift aka Burrows.

Sorry, but 1.7 for Stecher for what he brought, was a no brainer.  Even if JBs head was so far buried in the Marky sand that he figured he couldn't be bothered to concern himself with the peons yet, no team can get by with only 5 active defensemen. You gotta pay something to fill out your defence. No matter what price he may have penned Marky for, how does anyone flinch at $1.7 for such a quality 5/6th like Stecher? There was talk in here that the price was going to be 3 or 3.5.  Why would he have to wait any longer? Baffling indeed.

Edited November 11, 2020 by kilgore

[aGENT]

10 minutes ago, kilgore said:

 

 

I may be the minority here, but IMO Stecher was underrated for what he brings, especially at that price. 

I could see that with just the eye test, But lets look at his 2019/2020 stat highlights, looking at our defence:

https://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/teams/vancouver-canucks-defensemen-2019-20-nhl-stats.html

 

Third place tie with Edler, 5, goals overall......without PP time.

+10  Only Quinn Hughes had a better +/- @ 13

Related to that....tied with Quinn for 1st with 5 goals at even strength.

4th highest in even strength points ahead of Myers.

Second behind Quinn for shot percentage

 

Add to that a local kid, who loved playing for the Canucks. Gave his all every shift aka Burrows.

Sorry, but 1.7 for Stecher for what he brought, was a no brainer.  Even if JBs head was so far buried in the Marky sand that he figured he couldn't be bothered to concern himself with the peons yet, no team can get by with only 5 active defensemen. You gotta pay something to fill out your defence. No matter what price he may have penned Marky for, how does anyone flinch at $1.7 for such a quality 5/6th like Stecher? There was talk in here that the price was going to be 3 or 3.5.  Why would he have to wait any longer? Baffling indeed.

That's not what I said. Nor did I say Stecher wasn't a quality D man.

[Fred65]

1 hour ago, kilgore said:

 

 

I may be the minority here, but IMO Stecher was underrated for what he brings, especially at that price. 

I could see that with just the eye test, But lets look at his 2019/2020 stat highlights, looking at our defence:

https://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/teams/vancouver-canucks-defensemen-2019-20-nhl-stats.html

 

Third place tie with Edler, 5, goals overall......without PP time.

+10  Only Quinn Hughes had a better +/- @ 13

Related to that....tied with Quinn for 1st with 5 goals at even strength.

4th highest in even strength points ahead of Myers.

Second behind Quinn for shot percentage

 

Add to that a local kid, who loved playing for the Canucks. Gave his all every shift aka Burrows.

Sorry, but 1.7 for Stecher for what he brought, was a no brainer.  Even if JBs head was so far buried in the Marky sand that he figured he couldn't be bothered to concern himself with the peons yet, no team can get by with only 5 active defensemen. You gotta pay something to fill out your defence. No matter what price he may have penned Marky for, how does anyone flinch at $1.7 for such a quality 5/6th like Stecher? There was talk in here that the price was going to be 3 or 3.5.  Why would he have to wait any longer? Baffling indeed.

No one questions Stechers pluck but to be honest he was muscled off the puck along the boards way too often. You look at SC champs and they have mostly big D, not all big but significant number

[alt kilgore]

19 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

No one questions Stechers pluck but to be honest he was muscled off the puck along the boards way too often. You look at SC champs and they have mostly big D, not all big but significant number

Yes. that is true. Size. It was the one department he definitely wasn't the head of. 

Which is why he will never be a staple top four.  Which is why Meyers, and Edler can can have worse stats in areas but still be valued more.

But you have to take into account more than size.  Which yes, effects his ability to win battles for the puck, or effective hitting.  And no defense should have too many smallish D. Stecher is no Hughes, but no one is complaining about Hughes' size.  He also will lose battles if its a pure 50/50 and they get to the puck at the same time, if he is outmatched in size.  But you forgive him of that because of his upside.

 

A mix on D with a smaller, quicker, player, who can get to the puck faster than the big oafs bearing down, and clear it, move the puck up, is also not a bad arrow in the quiver to use. Many times the hustle of Stecher negated any impending puck battle. And he was one of the better players in finding a forward to pass it up to, as opposed to simply clearing it over the blue line.  Whereas someone like Edler would many times just try and hold the puck against the boards, and subsequently lose it half the time to the other side. But maybe that was it.  Management thought with Quinn, we couldn't afford to carry more smallish D, less physicality.

 

I just think Stecher overcame the size factor. Like many other smaller players such as another local kid, Ronning. He shone in enough other areas he didn't have to check all the boxes to be an effective part of the team.  And my point also is the money/cap value.  1.7?  IMO that is stiffing him. But he'd rather be stiffed in Detroit than Vancouver, for a team that watched his play and values what he can bring.

 

And no, losing Stecher is not the end of the world for the Canucks. We'll be fine.  He was and never will be a top four.  Although he looked good in the playoffs when Green moved him up with Edler.  I guess it was just the last straw with Benning for me at the time.  Yes we can go out (or in) and replace Toffoli, Stecher, Leivo, not to mention Tanev and Marky, but why the headache?  If JB could walk and chew gum at the same time, and we matched other teams offers, we'd have our top six done with Tofu, along with Schmidt who replaces Tanev, we'd have our 5th D position, plus an offensive upgrade on Loui/Rousell/Beagle/Sutter  in Leivo who can move up and down the line, depending.  Adding up the three players salaries....4.25 + 1.7 + .875 =  $6.825 million. A bargain for all three.  I don't care how much the excuse makers whine, the buck has to stop at Bennings desk. Including the reason why we had to ditch players we didn't want to......the asinine cap-killing signings of "foundational" veterans on the decline in past years when we should have been acquiring picks and developing from within, so that when we did luck out in the draft eventually, we'd be able to keep the players we wanted to, and have cap space to add to the team. 

[HomeBrew]

Spoiler

1 hour ago, kilgore said:

Yes. that is true. Size. It was the one department he definitely wasn't the head of. 

Which is why he will never be a staple top four.  Which is why Meyers, and Edler can can have worse stats in areas but still be valued more.

But you have to take into account more than size.  Which yes, effects his ability to win battles for the puck, or effective hitting.  And no defense should have too many smallish D. Stecher is no Hughes, but no one is complaining about Hughes' size.  He also will lose battles if its a pure 50/50 and they get to the puck at the same time, if he is outmatched in size.  But you forgive him of that because of his upside.

 

A mix on D with a smaller, quicker, player, who can get to the puck faster than the big oafs bearing down, and clear it, move the puck up, is also not a bad arrow in the quiver to use. Many times the hustle of Stecher negated any impending puck battle. And he was one of the better players in finding a forward to pass it up to, as opposed to simply clearing it over the blue line.  Whereas someone like Edler would many times just try and hold the puck against the boards, and subsequently lose it half the time to the other side. But maybe that was it.  Management thought with Quinn, we couldn't afford to carry more smallish D, less physicality.

 

I just think Stecher overcame the size factor. Like many other smaller players such as another local kid, Ronning. He shone in enough other areas he didn't have to check all the boxes to be an effective part of the team.  And my point also is the money/cap value.  1.7?  IMO that is stiffing him. But he'd rather be stiffed in Detroit than Vancouver, for a team that watched his play and values what he can bring.

 

And no, losing Stecher is not the end of the world for the Canucks. We'll be fine.  He was and never will be a top four.  Although he looked good in the playoffs when Green moved him up with Edler.  I guess it was just the last straw with Benning for me at the time.  Yes we can go out (or in) and replace Toffoli, Stecher, Leivo, not to mention Tanev and Marky, but why the headache?  If JB could walk and chew gum at the same time, and we matched other teams offers, we'd have our top six done with Tofu, along with Schmidt who replaces Tanev, we'd have our 5th D position, plus an offensive upgrade on Loui/Rousell/Beagle/Sutter  in Leivo who can move up and down the line, depending.  Adding up the three players salaries....4.25 + 1.7 + .875 =  $6.825 million. A bargain for all three.  I don't care how much the excuse makers whine, the buck has to stop at Bennings desk. Including the reason why we had to ditch players we didn't want to......the asinine cap-killing signings of "foundational" veterans on the decline in past years when we should have been acquiring picks and developing from within, so that when we did luck out in the draft eventually, we'd be able to keep the players we wanted to, and have cap space to add to the team. 

 

It sounds like you are focusing too much on last season, and not enough on what is coming down the road. We let players walk because of the term they wanted and what we have coming in from our young developing players - essentially making room for better players with cheaper contracts. Nate "Meatball" Schmidt is a huge piece moving forward. There is also a good chance that Rafferty will be an upgrade over Stecher. In a year or two, Podz will likely make the jump and fill in what we wanted from TT. We'll be better off. You'll see. I think GM JB is done handing out long contracts to players that aren't core to the team. 

Edited November 12, 2020 by HomeBrew