Dixon Ward Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 (edited) Correct me if I'm wrong. Dubinsky will not play next year and LTIR won't count against us. He is owed $5.85 this year only. Roussel is only owed 4.4 over the next 2 years and his cap hit is only 3 per year. We would spend a bit more this year but have 3 mil cap hit extra for 2 years? This should work? Edited October 13, 2020 by Dixon Ward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwijibo Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 Vancouver is $2m from the cap ceiling and still need to sign Virtanen and Guadette. They need to move out cap, not take on extra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Ward Posted October 13, 2020 Author Share Posted October 13, 2020 Just now, qwijibo said: Vancouver is $2m from the cap ceiling and still need to sign Virtanen and Guadette. They need to move out cap, not take on extra I am saying that the LTIR doesn't count against us. Toronto was way over the cap for years with Horton and somebody else. With Roussel gone we should have 3 mil open up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwijibo Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 10 minutes ago, Dixon Ward said: I am saying that the LTIR doesn't count against us. Toronto was way over the cap for years with Horton and somebody else. With Roussel gone we should have 3 mil open up. I misread. I’m not aware of his injury status, but LTIR doesn’t create cap space. It creates more issues than it solves. Vancouver would be better off adding a sweetener to move a bad contract if at all possible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Dixon Ward said: I am saying that the LTIR doesn't count against us. Toronto was way over the cap for years with Horton and somebody else. With Roussel gone we should have 3 mil open up. Columbus don't need bottom-6 players. They are looking to add top-6 goal scorers. They have grit but need finishers higher in the lineup. With their LTIR contracts Toronto was not able to build an active roster up to the cap. They must be more than relieved to be finally out of LTIR. LTIR contracts count against the cap and there is a mechanism to get some relief but the regular roster (+ the penalties like Luongo/Spooner) still has to be under 81.5M. It's not additional new free cap space. It also limits roster construction because bonuses have to be covered in recalls. It also guarantees that there's a bonus overage. Edited October 13, 2020 by mll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Ward Posted October 13, 2020 Author Share Posted October 13, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, mll said: Columbus don't need bottom-6 players. They are looking to add top-6 goal scorers. They have grit but need finishers higher in the lineup. With their LTIR contracts Toronto was not able to build an active roster up to the cap. They must be more than relieved to be finally out of LTIR. LTIR contracts count against the cap and there is a mechanism to get some relief but the regular roster (+ the penalties like Luongo/Spooner) still has to be under 81.5M. It's not additional new free cap space. It also limits roster construction because bonuses have to be covered in recalls. It also guarantees that there's a bonus overage. Toronto was 13 million over the cap last year and most of that was Horton and Clarkson at 10+ million. I defer to your knowledge but I don't follow? Edited October 13, 2020 by Dixon Ward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 6 hours ago, Dixon Ward said: Toronto was 13 million over the cap last year and most of that was Horton and Clarkson at 10+ million. I defer to your knowledge but I don't follow? The portion that exceeds the salary cap of 81.5M is only LTIR cap. Say Ferland can't play. His contract still counts against the cap. LTIR allows to exceed the cap up to the amount necessary for the roster to remain cap compliant. If Ferland goes on LTIR, the Canucks salary cap will fluctuate based on the daily cap relief needed up to a maximum of 85M. If they need 2M the new daily cap will be 83.5M. If they only need 500K the new daily cap is 82M. It can at most be 85M as max cap of 81.5M + Ferland 3.5M = 85M. The regular roster (including Luongo, Spooner etc) will still be at most 81.5M because it's only the portion of Ferland's cap hit that will exceed 81.5M. When not in LTIR, teams bank cap space each day they are under the salary cap. That banked cap space can be used to recall players in case of injuries, add players at the TDL etc. Say a team starts 300K under the salary cap, on day 3 they can recall a 900K cap hit for 1 day. 1 day at 900K = 3 days at 300K. At the end of the season the sum of all the daily cap hits will be below or equal to 81.5M. Any difference can be used to pay the performance bonuses of the season, and only the excess will be carried over and count against the following season's cap. In LTIR it's not possible to bank cap space as the relief for the day is based on the need of the day. The daily cap hit is never below the cap but right at it. It guarantees that all performance bonuses will carry over into the following season as there's no cap space built up to offset them against. With Ferland on LTIR the Canucks were not able to bank cap space and the 1.7M performance bonus of Hughes/Pettersson carried over in full to this coming season's cap. They will still be on their ELCs this season. LTIR is also problematic in case of recalls or mid-season additions like possibly Podkolzin. In LTIR the bonus also has to be covered. So not only do they have to be under the cap by the full cap hit (as there's no banked cap space) but they also have to be under by the performance bonus that are still achievable. A Juolevi recall from the AHL is not 863K but 1.9M because of the performance bonus and they have to be under the cap by that full amount to be able to bring him back up. Same issue for adding Podkolzin once his season is over. Ferland expects to play next season. If he's healthy the team will be able to avoid all the complications of LTIR. Toronto tried to move the Horton contract but it was not insured so they found no takers. They had no choice but to use LTIR. They had kept money aside to sign Marner and it was unclear when he would finally sign. Horton was a ~5M cap hit and they had kept about 4M of cap space (numbers might not be fully accurate). With Marner unsigned they would have only got 1M in cap relief on the Horton contract. LTIR only gives relief for the amount necessary to be cap compliant. 4M would have been covered by the cap space they had kept and they needed only 1M to be cap compliant. By adding Clarkson it gave them more flexibility to wait on the Marner signing and have access to the ~4M they had kept as cap space. Their regular roster was still under 81.5M. Having players on LTIR created all sorts of recall issues though and they had little roster flexibility. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJockitch Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 Is that correct @mll? I am not sure about the banking cap space. I don’t think you can do that. Your lineup can not exceed the normal cap hit in any regular season game. You can’t go $1M under the cap for half the season and exceed it by $1M for the rest of the season as far as I am aware. In the playoffs there is no cap. The LTIR sounds about right. Basically you have to be cap compliant on day 1 when you move player to LTIR then the cap becomes available with restrictions. Usually this means papering someone down or signing someone after camp. Like you highlighted, can cause issues with rookie bonuses and recalls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 (edited) 56 minutes ago, DrJockitch said: Is that correct @mll? I am not sure about the banking cap space. I don’t think you can do that. Your lineup can not exceed the normal cap hit in any regular season game. You can’t go $1M under the cap for half the season and exceed it by $1M for the rest of the season as far as I am aware. In the playoffs there is no cap. The LTIR sounds about right. Basically you have to be cap compliant on day 1 when you move player to LTIR then the cap becomes available with restrictions. Usually this means papering someone down or signing someone after camp. Like you highlighted, can cause issues with rookie bonuses and recalls. Cap space is calculated daily but you can use up what you have banked. It's visible on CapFriendly. This is today on the Canucks' page. They have about 2M in cap space. If the roster stays as is and there is no further signing, demotion or any other movement - they will be able to add up to 6.244M in contracts at the deadline. It's because of banked cap space. CURRENT CAP SPACE : $1,998,122 DEADLINE CAP SPACE : $6,244,131 TODAYS CAP HIT : $79,501,878 You can't borrow prospective cap space but you can use what you have banked. At the end of the season the sum of all the daily cap hits cannot exceed 81.5M. You can also see it here on the daily cap tracker - this is Montreal's where you can see them exceeding the 81.5M cap in January. They had no player on LTIR this past season. https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/canadiens/cap-tracker Edited October 13, 2020 by mll 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazurus Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 Both have MNTC's 6 hours ago, mll said: Cap space is calculated daily but you can use up what you have banked. It's visible on CapFriendly. This is today on the Canucks' page. They have about 2M in cap space. If the roster stays as is and there is no further signing, demotion or any other movement - they will be able to add up to 6.244M in contracts at the deadline. It's because of banked cap space. CURRENT CAP SPACE : $1,998,122 DEADLINE CAP SPACE : $6,244,131 TODAYS CAP HIT : $79,501,878 You can't borrow prospective cap space but you can use what you have banked. At the end of the season the sum of all the daily cap hits cannot exceed 81.5M. You can also see it here on the daily cap tracker - this is Montreal's where you can see them exceeding the 81.5M cap in January. They had no player on LTIR this past season. https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/canadiens/cap-tracker They won't have any cap space left, they don't have enough to sign Virtanen and Gaudette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AV. Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 Cute idea but we have an internal cap for this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTramFan Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 15 hours ago, Alain Vigneault said: Cute idea but we have an internal cap for this season. $85m? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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