[Rumour] Gallagher Extension talks at Impasse

[qwijibo]

12 minutes ago, Canadian said:

Their center depth is weak and have an excess of wingers. I wonder if they'd look at Sutter+ (maybe a Brisebois or a pick) to bring in Gallagher. Cap is roughly the same.

You know nothing about the Habs if you think their  C depth is weak. They just traded away a C who had 72 points last season because they didn’t have a C spot for him and he’s not as good as a winger 

[Coconuts]

12 minutes ago, Canadian said:

Their center depth is weak and have an excess of wingers. I wonder if they'd look at Sutter+ (maybe a Brisebois or a pick) to bring in Gallagher. Cap is roughly the same.

The value isn't there, and they don't even have the cap to take Sutter on right now unless they moved something out on top of Gallagher 

 

They've also got nine picks in the first four rounds next season, and fourteen picks overall, I'm assuming they'd be asking for a prospect we wouldn't want to give   

 

They'll also have a fair amount of cap space next offseason given their expiring contracts 

 

 

[mll]

11 hours ago, Provost said:

The other side of the coin is that if we can free up that sort of cap space, would we be better off gaining assets by taking a decent player off another cap strapped team than using assets to trade for Gallagher and then having to sign him long term?

 

What could we get as a sweetener to take one of Palat, Killorn, Johnson, or Gourde from Tampa as their desperation increases?  They come with less term remaining than Gallagher would probably command as a UFA next offseason.

 

All of those guys have either full of partial trade protection and certainly aren’t planning on waiving it to go to Ottawa.  What motivation do they have to go from a winning team with low taxes to a losing team where they will take home less money... just so another player can get paid their money instead?

Ottawa has the cap space but not the cash for those contracts in any case.  Boston, Columbus, and maybe Buffalo have both the cash and cap space to add a big ticket like that right now.... that is about it, and certainly no indication any of those teams is interested in doing Tampa a favour.

Custance talked to executives around the league to assess each teams' off-season so far.  Their take on Tampa is that they might have to trade guys they wish to keep in Palat, Gourde and/or Killorn and get a return rather than add an asset to off-load Johnson.  

 

 

Edited October 14, 2020 by mll

[Devron]

7 minutes ago, mll said:

Custance talked to executives around the league to assess each teams' off-season so far.  Their take on Tampa is that they might have to trade guys they wish to keep in Palat, Gourde and/or Killorn and get a return rather than add an asset to off-load Johnson.  

 

 

Higher chance of trading Johnson imo as he’s probably already prepared to move on after being placed on waivers. The others have NTC. Could really effect the players and the room once you start asking multiple guys to waive NTC

 

[mll]

Friedman in his 31 thoughts:

 

3. The moment Josh Anderson signed his seven-year, $38.5-million deal, I wondered what that meant for Brendan Gallagher — one year from unrestricted free agency. It’s emotional, and you only have to look as far as St. Louis to realize the challenges that creates. It is believed the extension being discussed between Gallagher and the Canadiens was similar to the one Anderson signed, and that Montreal has made it clear there isn’t any more wriggle room on its offer.

 

I would love to see Marc Bergevin’s phone and text log after news got out that extension talks broke off. Word around the NHL is the Canadiens’ GM said he wouldn’t be trading the aggressive winger. That hasn’t always been true, but Bergevin knows he has to make a run in 2020–21.

 

It would have to be some trade for Les Habitants to be better off without Gallagher, who is the emotional heartbeat of the team. He’s got enormous pride. It’s why he made it, and that pride is stung right now.

[Provost]

58 minutes ago, mll said:

Custance talked to executives around the league to assess each teams' off-season so far.  Their take on Tampa is that they might have to trade guys they wish to keep in Palat, Gourde and/or Killorn and get a return rather than add an asset to off-load Johnson.  

 

 

Except the math only works if he moves 2-3 of them.  What are Cirelli, Sergachev, and Cernak going to cost combined?  $13-16 million probably?  They have a couple million in space right now, and tighter for the next couple years as no money is coming off the books.

 

That was the take from one Western team exec... Why pay anything for Killorn, Palat, Gourde, or Johnson when there are UFA players like Hoffman out there for the same or less cap hit and on a 1 year term?  If Tampa just waived all those guys maybe one is picked up and he still loses 1-2 of his RFAs because he can’t afford them.

They have trade protection so you can’t just trade them to a bottom feeder.  Just think about it from their perspective.  They are on a perennial Cup contender that they gave a discount to stay with and got a NTC as part of the deal.  Then the team asks if they will go to a losing team where they will make less money due to taxes... and their promised money is going to be spent on someone else.  Their answer will pretty much be to go pound sand on most trade scenarios to teams that can afford to take them on.  They can gamble that they won’t get picked up on waivers due to market conditions and keep control of their fate, worst case they end up on a losing team... just like if they agreed to a trade to one of those teams.

Edited October 14, 2020 by Provost

[86Viking]

1 hour ago, Canadian said:

Their center depth is weak and have an excess of wingers. I wonder if they'd look at Sutter+ (maybe a Brisebois or a pick) to bring in Gallagher. Cap is roughly the same.

Danault is unhappy being dropped down to the #3C position, I think they could use a Sutter but they can go sign a depth C for 1m or under. Flat cap = great time to have lots of cap space. these are the salaries most should be making anyway imo.

[qwijibo]

23 minutes ago, Canuckster86 said:

Danault is unhappy being dropped down to the #3C position, I think they could use a Sutter but they can go sign a depth C for 1m or under. Flat cap = great time to have lots of cap space. these are the salaries most should be making anyway imo.

That was during the playoffs. With the addition of Toffoli and Anderson they now have quality wingers for all three top centres.  If you look at minute distribution it’s closer to 3 second lines plus a checking line.  Danault should find himself back in between Gallagher and Tatar this season. That leaves Suzuki with Anderson and Drouin. And Kotkaniemi with Toffoli and Lehtkonen.  They’re really solid down the middle atm. 

[Mackcanuck]

Do we think it is a good idea to give up assets/picks to acquire a player that will be a FA next season.

Hmm, sounds like a Toffoli situation all over again!

[ruilin96]

Just now, Mackcanuck said:

Do we think it is a good idea to give up assets/picks to acquire a player that will be a FA next season.

Hmm, sounds like a Toffoli situation all over again!

I could see the team trade for Gallagher if we are once again the midst of a playoff hunt by next year's deadline. We will likely be trading for rentals this year and next year for playoff push. And when Hoglander/Podkolzin is ready, they take up that spot eventually.

[oldnews]

2 hours ago, qwijibo said:

You know nothing about the Habs if you think their  C depth is weak. They just traded away a C who had 72 points last season because they didn’t have a C spot for him and he’s not as good as a winger 

 

1 hour ago, qwijibo said:

That was during the playoffs. With the addition of Toffoli and Anderson they now have quality wingers for all three top centres.  If you look at minute distribution it’s closer to 3 second lines plus a checking line.  Danault should find himself back in between Gallagher and Tatar this season. That leaves Suzuki with Anderson and Drouin. And Kotkaniemi with Toffoli and Lehtkonen.  They’re really solid down the middle atm. 

I don't agree with your take.  The Habs have the makings to be solid down the middle in the future.

To say they are "atm" is rose goggles wadr.

 

Tatar Danault Gallagher

Drouin Suzuki Toffoli/Anderson

Lehkonen Kotkaniemi Anderson/Toffoli

Byron Poehling Armia

 

Top line is solid enough with Danault, assuming he remains there.

Suzuki is their 2nd best remaining faceoff guy, at 46.3% - 21 years old - workable but more workable if the bottom 6 is solid.

Kotkaniemi lead the Habs in ozone starts last year - and was 42.8% in the faceoff circle. 20 years old.  Workable if he's the only center in your lineup that requires sheltering - they should be able to give him solid enough two way veteran wingers, but tilting the ice for him "atm" could be a real challenge.

Because their 4C is another rookie....

 

They didn't just deal Domi - they also rented Thompson (their #2 and 3 faceoff guys last year) - and they've signed/acquired no one to replace either of them.

Domi may be replaceable from within - but without an actual, experienced veteran defensive center - they will be relying on Poehling, Evans, Weal....?  (even Nick Cousins was dealt).

 

They've built a solid veteran blueline - but pencilling in 3 x 20/21 year old centers as your bottom 9...if that's "solid atm" I would certainly be looking to make it "more solid" - that is a lot to expect of three green centers.

 

 

 

[86Viking]

Virtanen & OJ for Gallagher 2021 3rd round pick?

 

Hopefully Gallagher will sign a home town deal, 4yr 16-18m....4-4.5m per? Take him till he is 33

[ruilin96]

12 minutes ago, Canuckster86 said:

Virtanen & OJ for Gallagher 2021 3rd round pick?

 

Hopefully Gallagher will sign a home town deal, 4yr 16-18m....4-4.5m per? Take him till he is 33

Would've just rather signing TT to his current contract instead of this imo. It will be difficult to trade for Gallagher. Montreal doesn't have their hands tied, and there is definitely other teams interested. If they can't move him, they will just let him play out the rest of his contract and let him walk next year.

[qwijibo]

13 minutes ago, oldnews said:

 

I don't agree with your take.  The Habs have the makings to be solid down the middle in the future.

To say they are "atm" is rose goggles wadr.

 

Tatar Danault Gallagher

Drouin Suzuki Toffoli/Anderson

Lehkonen Kotkaniemi Anderson/Toffoli

Byron Poehling Armia

 

Top line is solid enough with Danault, assuming he remains there.

Suzuki is their 2nd best remaining faceoff guy, at 46.3% - 21 years old - workable but more workable if the bottom 6 is solid.

Kotkaniemi lead the Habs in ozone starts last year - and was 42.8% in the faceoff circle. 20 years old.  Workable if he's the only center in your lineup that requires sheltering - they should be able to give him solid enough two way veteran wingers, but tilting the ice for him "atm" could be a real challenge.

Because their 4C is another rookie....

 

They didn't just deal Domi - they also rented Thompson (their #2 and 3 faceoff guys last year) - and they've signed/acquired no one to replace either of them.

Domi may be replaceable from within - but without an actual, experienced veteran defensive center - they will be relying on Poehling, Evans, Weal....?  (even Nick Cousins was dealt).

 

They've built a solid veteran blueline - but pencilling in 3 x 20/21 year old centers as your bottom 9...if that's "solid atm" I would certainly be looking to make it "more solid" - that is a lot to expect of three green centers.

 

 

 

Have you had a look at Pettersson’s face off percentage? It’s 41.1%.  
 

They’ve clearly seen enough that they like that they were comfortable moving Domi out for a winger.  

[Millerdraft]

Hard pass at giving up the type of asset(s) that Bergevin would require to trade such a fan favourite.  The optics would look terrible if he didn’t get a home run return.  I think he’d be let off easier if he “did everything he could” to sign Gallagher “but at the end of the day $5.75m x 5 years” wasn’t enough to get it done.  He’s essentially a playoff rental at this point (until he’s not when/if he re-signs).

 

I like Gallagher’s game a lot, and he’d be a great fit in our top six, but I’m not sure I’d wanna lock into a five or six year term with him as a 29-year old free agent let alone give up the prime assets Montreal would require to make a deal go through.

[Nicklas Bo Hunter]

offer them a trade around Pearson. Reunite him and tofu again lol. 

[oldnews]

5 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

Have you had a look at Pettersson’s face off percentage? It’s 41.1%.  
 

They’ve clearly seen enough that they like that they were comfortable moving Domi out for a winger.  

Derp.

That's quite the sidestep qwib - "whataboutyou" is not really a reasoned response wadr.

 

And, btw - Pettersson won 59 faceoffs this year, and lost 82.

 

In other words - 5 other centers took more draws than him.

 

And critically - he was a WINGER - to JT Miller - who won 59.2% of his faceoffs.

 

Seriously - attempting to 'whatabout' this - in relation to the Canucks....?  Who had....

 

Miller 59.2%

Horvat 57.3%

Beagle 59.1%

Sutter 48.9% (while playing with shoulder injury...)

 

What an awful comparable/take.

 

Beagle 77% dzone starts

Sutter 68.1% dzone starts

Horvat 56% dzone starts

 

Seriously - I'm not sure you could possibly have whiffed more thoroughly on the point.

[mll]

4 hours ago, Provost said:

Except the math only works if he moves 2-3 of them.  What are Cirelli, Sergachev, and Cernak going to cost combined?  $13-16 million probably?  They have a couple million in space right now, and tighter for the next couple years as no money is coming off the books.

 

That was the take from one Western team exec... Why pay anything for Killorn, Palat, Gourde, or Johnson when there are UFA players like Hoffman out there for the same or less cap hit and on a 1 year term?  If Tampa just waived all those guys maybe one is picked up and he still loses 1-2 of his RFAs because he can’t afford them.

They have trade protection so you can’t just trade them to a bottom feeder.  Just think about it from their perspective.  They are on a perennial Cup contender that they gave a discount to stay with and got a NTC as part of the deal.  Then the team asks if they will go to a losing team where they will make less money due to taxes... and their promised money is going to be spent on someone else.  Their answer will pretty much be to go pound sand on most trade scenarios to teams that can afford to take them on.  They can gamble that they won’t get picked up on waivers due to market conditions and keep control of their fate, worst case they end up on a losing team... just like if they agreed to a trade to one of those teams.

 

Hoffman is apparently asking between 5.5M and 6.5M on a short term deal.  His defensive game is questionable.   Feels like Tampa have better players although on longer deals.  NTC is obviously an issue but would think that waiving Johnson made them realise that they could be next.  Hornqvist didn't want to leave Pittsburgh but he figured why play on a team that doesn't want him anymore.

I suspect that Brisebois is working with their representatives on potential trade destinations they'll waive for.  The return might not be great but I don't buy your scenario that no teams will take them without a sweetener.

 

Edited October 14, 2020 by mll

[Pavel the Bure]

So Montreal Canadiens so far this offseason

Signed Toffoli for 4 years AAV 4.25 mln

Signed Josh Anderson to a massive 7 years 38.5 mln, AAV 5.5 mln (Gambling contract IMO)

and finally Extend G Allen (who they accrued recently from Blues) to another AAV 2.875 mln (new deal starting in 2021-22 season).

 

The best pat of all those signings, they are not worries about Gallagher contract after all 

 

https://www.habseyesontheprize.com/2020/10/14/21514579/why-im-not-worried-about-brendan-gallagher-contract-negotiations-talks-break-marc-bergevin-opinion

[86Viking]

1 hour ago, Pavel the Bure said:

So Montreal Canadiens so far this offseason

Signed Toffoli for 4 years AAV 4.25 mln

Signed Josh Anderson to a massive 7 years 38.5 mln, AAV 5.5 mln (Gambling contract IMO)

and finally Extend G Allen (who they accrued recently from Blues) to another AAV 2.875 mln (new deal starting in 2021-22 season).

 

The best pat of all those signings, they are not worries about Gallagher contract after all 

 

https://www.habseyesontheprize.com/2020/10/14/21514579/why-im-not-worried-about-brendan-gallagher-contract-negotiations-talks-break-marc-bergevin-opinion

Don'r forget Edmundson and his 3.5m contract x 4 years. The Allen extension isn't a gamble its to expose a G to Seattle and give more time for Primeau worst case. They have price making STUPID $ he better play a majority of the games otherwise Markstrom at almost half the amount is better use of cap space if you want a decent back up haha!