Why has the conversation about prospects changed?

[IBatch]

53 minutes ago, lmm said:

I think continuously comparing the Canucks and Oilers is a bit of a red herring.

It could be argued that over the past 20 years, there is little to choose between the two.

Both teams have one quality playoff run.

both teams sank to the bottom or near bottom of the league for 3-5 years.

both teams play their high draft picks early, some times with success and sometimes to the detriment of the player.

Both teams have blown up their management structure.

 

The Oilers are a little ahead of the Canucks with players like McD and Drais. they are also behind because they did not settle on solid management until hiring Holland.

Which would you rather, a team with 5 coaches in 5 years, including Kreuger and Quinn or a team with AV, Torts and 3 years of Willie D?

 

I think too much is made of the Oilers playing their picks too early, Draisaitl was sent back to Junior while Virtanen and McCann were not.

Who of Hall, Nuge or Nail would the Canucks have told they would not play after being picked first over all?

 

In the last 20 years both teams have drafted well in about 3 drafts, and been skunked in about 4 drafts, not enough to build a winner either way.

 

Jim has solidified the Canuck drafting, we are about to see if Holland can do the same for the Oilers.

But remember when we all thought Benning would draft Dubois but Columbus got him first, it is only luck that Pettersson and Hughes did not go before we got them.

 

THis past playoff the Canucks had Demko, Guadette and MacEwen not drafted in the first round while the  Oilers had Khaira and Bear

lmm some of this is false news.   The Oilers have been at or near the bottom of the drafting well for about a decade now.   Once you consider ADP (average draft position) and how good their 21 and unders have matched to the rest of the league it’s pretty hilarious.   Can’t bye a player past the second round going back to Eberle etc.   Maybe recently, but they were the worst drafting team overall the past decade and it’s not even really close.   Two yips with their 1 and 4th didn’t help much either.

 

Yes it’s not fair to poke fun at EDM.   Even with the best player(a) in the world they can’t any traction - a complete waste given what PIT managed with Crosby and Malkin.   Maybe they are setting the ship right, if anyone can do it it’s definitely Holland. 

[Kevin Biestra]

1 minute ago, IBatch said:

Two yips with their 1 and 4th didn’t help much either.

 

Made all the worse by the fact that they hit a homer with Taylor Hall and then traded him for peanuts.

[IBatch]

8 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Made all the worse by the fact that they hit a homer with Taylor Hall and then traded him for peanuts.

No doubt.   What a terrible trade for them.   All they kept from the starter trio was RNH.    What a nice group of young players to start with, just a waste.   At least it’s the Oilers, that makes it a lot more palatable ha ha.  Not the only team on their second straight rebuild either, ARI and CAR also had their issues the last decade or so. 

[Kevin Biestra]

1 minute ago, IBatch said:

No doubt.   What a terrible trade for them.   All they kept from the starter trio was RNH.    What a nice group of young players to start with, just a waste.   At least it’s the Oilers, that makes it a lot more palatable ha ha.  Not the only team on their second straight rebuild either, ARI and CAR also had their issues the last decade or so. 

 

Boston seems to survive those wacky trades...  Joe Thornton, Tyler Seguin, etc.  Edmonton...nopers.

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Boston seems to survive those wacky trades...  Joe Thornton, Tyler Seguin, etc.  Edmonton...nopers.

Yes even fairly recently with Hamilton, lost the better players each time but shrugged it off and kept going.   Don’t know how they manage it.   Thornton was the best young C in the game at the time and they have him away for relative chump change albeit decent roster players.   Think he’s the only Hart winner to be traded the same year he won (Art Ross as well pretty sure). 

 

[lmm]

4 hours ago, IBatch said:

lmm some of this is false news.   The Oilers have been at or near the bottom of the drafting well for about a decade now.   Once you consider ADP (average draft position) and how good their 21 and unders have matched to the rest of the league it’s pretty hilarious.   Can’t bye a player past the second round going back to Eberle etc.   Maybe recently, but they were the worst drafting team overall the past decade and it’s not even really close.   Two yips with their 1 and 4th didn’t help much either.

 

Yes it’s not fair to poke fun at EDM.   Even with the best player(a) in the world they can’t any traction - a complete waste given what PIT managed with Crosby and Malkin.   Maybe they are setting the ship right, if anyone can do it it’s definitely Holland. 

2005 -2013 how do the  Canuks stacck up?

05 Raymond in the 2nd- 500 + games then Bourdon in the 1st-31 games

06 Grabner in the 1st 600+ then Shirkorov in the 6th-8 games

07

08 Hodgson in the 1st 300+ games then \sauve in the 2nd -8 games

09 Connaughton in the 3rd - 300+ games then Schroeder in the 1st 165 games

10 Alex Friesen in the 6th -1 game

11 Corrado in the 6th - 70 + games then Jensen in the 1st 31 games

12 Hutton 300+ games then Gaunce in the first 116 games

`13 Horvat in the 1st -400 + games the Schinky also in the 1st - 15 games

 

hpw is that better?

now I am not here to pump the oily tires, comparing to the Oilers is a pretty low bar

How is what I said untrue?

[IBatch]

11 hours ago, lmm said:

2005 -2013 how do the  Canuks stacck up?

05 Raymond in the 2nd- 500 + games then Bourdon in the 1st-31 games

06 Grabner in the 1st 600+ then Shirkorov in the 6th-8 games

07

08 Hodgson in the 1st 300+ games then \sauve in the 2nd -8 games

09 Connaughton in the 3rd - 300+ games then Schroeder in the 1st 165 games

10 Alex Friesen in the 6th -1 game

11 Corrado in the 6th - 70 + games then Jensen in the 1st 31 games

12 Hutton 300+ games then Gaunce in the first 116 games

`13 Horvat in the 1st -400 + games the Schinky also in the 1st - 15 games

 

hpw is that better?

now I am not here to pump the oily tires, comparing to the Oilers is a pretty low bar

How is what I said untrue?

Ok - you got me during that phase - but 20 years does include 2000-2020.   Over a 20 year period the Oilers and Canucks did have a similar run of bad picks - but the first five years were very good, including one of the best drafts ever by anyone - in Nonis first crack at - and since Horvat we’ve got them by a country mile all things considered equal (ADP).... nobody has had a tougher time at the draft then EDM since their run to the final though ... we were bad mid-Nonis and through the entire MG era...not just because we used our picks (which for sure was the right call),  but like EDM couldn’t buy a pick past the second round.    EDM the last two four year segments since THN started tracking this...  three successive 1st overalls, Hall, RNH and Yakupov, then McDavid, Draisatl and Puljajarvi, and Nurse and Bouchard.  Four firsts, a third and a fourth, a 7th and a 10th - doesn’t really  compare to 2 fifths and a 7th and a 10th. 
 

So sorry I just don’t see them as a good comparable - but yes we both sucked for long periods.   Their rebuild for one has been going on or went on until McDavid was in his second year.   A very long time.  And maybe they are ahead of us now - but they certainly should be too.

 

   And for sure it was lack of secondary support with picks outside of the first round that hindered it, among other roster failures - like more D outside of Nurse picked and 7 and Bouchard at 10 (but I’m sure he will help). 
 

But your absolutely correct - after 2004 (one of our best ever - Edler, Schneider, Hansen and Brow), the Canucks were a wasteland for almost a decade.     Probably the worst in the league.  

 

 

Edited November 11, 2020 by IBatch

[iceman64]

On 11/9/2020 at 5:06 AM, IBatch said:

Well said.   All of that and want to add that it’s not like JB has made it particularly difficult for prospects to make the team over the last 5-6 years....Megna, Chaput, Del Zotto, Gagne etc etc.    Now it’s LE, Sutter etc. Motte and AG made the forward group as fringe players ... and the skies the limit for the remaining folks, especially two slots so far still remaining open on the defense.   Do want to say it’s not easy to break in and actually make it - AND to the OP, it’s not like JB didn’t add during the early years, he did...just none of those guys stuck.  Vey, Bear, Goldobin, Granlund...WD’s Megna and Chaput ha ha.    Just because we think all the remaining high end guys are better then Shinkaruk etc doesn’t mean they are, or will do any better then those guys listed above who lasted a couple of seasons...you just never know. 

I do however think both OJ and Rafferty have excellent chances coming their way, and both have the chops to make it work.  

I disagree with saying our prospects are anywhere near the same as shink, Goldy etc..

 Leaving D out of it because you stated OJ and Raff, but at forward Hogs is twice the player that shink is/was, Hogs has too much drive and skill not to make it..

 I don't know why the OP didn't mention Podz BUT that kid will rock it and better than anyone we've had lately waiting in the wings, he's the only one I'm super stoked about... Quick, tough, and skilled and proves it night after night, even if he doesn't make the scoresheet he makes his presence known and if he played more over across the pond, and we all know why he doesn't but that kid has nothing but drive to make it and has a good defensive game too. Podz wants the puck and does whatever it takes to get it. 

 He's like a slightly lesser Bure, Pavel had that drive and you can't develop that, it's all in character.. 

 Players might get better at it but you can tell Podz hates to lose and still is nowhere near his ceiling.. 

 

 Podz is our closest to making it and if JV played anything near Podz, we'd all be a lot happier.. 

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, iceman64 said:

I disagree with saying our prospects are anywhere near the same as shink, Goldy etc..

 Leaving D out of it because you stated OJ and Raff, but at forward Hogs is twice the player that shink is/was, Hogs has too much drive and skill not to make it..

 I don't know why the OP didn't mention Podz BUT that kid will rock it and better than anyone we've had lately waiting in the wings, he's the only one I'm super stoked about... Quick, tough, and skilled and proves it night after night, even if he doesn't make the scoresheet he makes his presence known and if he played more over across the pond, and we all know why he doesn't but that kid has nothing but drive to make it and has a good defensive game too. Podz wants the puck and does whatever it takes to get it. 

 He's like a slightly lesser Bure, Pavel had that drive and you can't develop that, it's all in character.. 

 Players might get better at it but you can tell Podz hates to lose and still is nowhere near his ceiling.. 

 

 Podz is our closest to making it and if JV played anything near Podz, we'd all be a lot happier.. 

You’ve missed my point entirely.   One is with prospects you just never know - some rank high and don’t amount to anything (Goldobin, Bear, Vey), and will add that some end up way better then expected.   My post was about how JB kept the bar low enough for prospects to break in if they could (Megna, Chaput, Del-Zotto, Gagne etc etc ) and only a few did - Vey, Bear, Goldobin (and where are they now), it’s not that easy to break into the NHL even if you are highly touted.   And the higher touted you are the more chance’s  you get.   Motte had to scratch and claw for everything he got, same with Hansen and Burrows.   If they were first round picks they would of had the JV treatment and excelled earlier maybe.   Hogs (30), Podz (10), OJ (84), Woo (83) and Rafferty (top four D right now according to Button), will all get their chances - but nothing is certain.

 

I wasn’t denigrating our pool one bit.  Was only pointing out that early JB set the bar pretty low .... it’s higher now with the exception of the two vacant spots on our D, I expect he’s willing and ready to let OJ and maybe Rafferty take the reigns and run with it. 

[iceman64]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

You’ve missed my point entirely.   One is with prospects you just never know - some rank high and don’t amount to anything (Goldobin, Bear, Vey), and will add that some end up way better then expected.   My post was about how JB kept the bar low enough for prospects to break in if they could (Megna, Chaput, Del-Zotto, Gagne etc etc ) and only a few did - Vey, Bear, Goldobin (and where are they now), it’s not that easy to break into the NHL even if you are highly touted.   And the higher touted you are the more chance’s  you get.   Motte had to scratch and claw for everything he got, same with Hansen and Burrows.   If they were first round picks they would of had the JV treatment and excelled earlier maybe.   Hogs (30), Podz (10), OJ (84), Woo (83) and Rafferty (top four D right now according to Button), will all get their chances - but nothing is certain.

 

I wasn’t denigrating our pool one bit.  Was only pointing out that early JB set the bar pretty low .... it’s higher now with the exception of the two vacant spots on our D, I expect he’s willing and ready to let OJ and maybe Rafferty take the reigns and run with it. 

Well on D, he doesn't have much of a choice since we can't afford anyone unless someone offers something but it is time we let our younger D prospects have a shot anyway to see where their at.. 

 We've never even had a farm like this ever, didn't matter who was GM, they usually followed the pressure of win it all now and screw the farm. That worked well didn't it?  Not so much..

 Anyway, since 74, it's been painful to watch with the odd exceptions 94.. 2011.. 

 However with Covid and that fn cap that screwed us royally already since day one of it, finally we're turning the corner..  could we ever say that before? Uh uh, not like this... 

[IBatch]

6 minutes ago, iceman64 said:

Well on D, he doesn't have much of a choice since we can't afford anyone unless someone offers something but it is time we let our younger D prospects have a shot anyway to see where their at.. 

 We've never even had a farm like this ever, didn't matter who was GM, they usually followed the pressure of win it all now and screw the farm. That worked well didn't it?  Not so much..

 Anyway, since 74, it's been painful to watch with the odd exceptions 94.. 2011.. 

 However with Covid and that fn cap that screwed us royally already since day one of it, finally we're turning the corner..  could we ever say that before? Uh uh, not like this... 

Well Milford created a comparable farm but he’s usually overlooked.   Agree with the rest although I’m not too sure we wouldn’t have left spot(s) open for the D anyways with the ED looming and a few fringe guys ready for a look before that.  Covid for sure screwed us.  And Luongo.   Difference between keeping TT and probably Tanev too (with two years of cap increases).   That said at least everyone else is in the same boat (except for Luongo).   Highly doubt we’d win a cup this year anyways (last year of EP and QHs on their elcs), but if things were different we sure could have made things better.   
 

Im not completely sold on this team yet. But am sold that JB is a good GM and has done much better the anticipated given the gigantic turd sandwich he had to eat at the start.   We missed four playoffs in a row.   Nowadays that’s a low normal.   Wish it wasn’t but it is what it is.   Best thing that could possibly happen to the product and the league is contraction but that’s never going to happen.   Every year each team starts at zero.   And has a soon to be 1/32 chance at a cup.   94 and 2011 might end up as becoming the luckiest things I’ve ever had the chance to see with this club.   Hope not. 

[iceman64]

On 11/26/2020 at 3:27 PM, IBatch said:

Well Milford created a comparable farm but he’s usually overlooked.   Agree with the rest although I’m not too sure we wouldn’t have left spot(s) open for the D anyways with the ED looming and a few fringe guys ready for a look before that.  Covid for sure screwed us.  And Luongo.   Difference between keeping TT and probably Tanev too (with two years of cap increases).   That said at least everyone else is in the same boat (except for Luongo).   Highly doubt we’d win a cup this year anyways (last year of EP and QHs on their elcs), but if things were different we sure could have made things better.   
 

Im not completely sold on this team yet. But am sold that JB is a good GM and has done much better the anticipated given the gigantic turd sandwich he had to eat at the start.   We missed four playoffs in a row.   Nowadays that’s a low normal.   Wish it wasn’t but it is what it is.   Best thing that could possibly happen to the product and the league is contraction but that’s never going to happen.   Every year each team starts at zero.   And has a soon to be 1/32 chance at a cup.   94 and 2011 might end up as becoming the luckiest things I’ve ever had the chance to see with this club.   Hope not. 

I gave the laugh because it's seldom that I hear about the turd sandwich team JB took over..  I'd say it was much worse than that, I wouldn't have taken the job here if I was a GM.. no fn way... 

[IBatch]

6 hours ago, iceman64 said:

I gave the laugh because it's seldom that I hear about the turd sandwich team JB took over..  I'd say it was much worse than that, I wouldn't have taken the job here if I was a GM.. no fn way... 

He’s lucky to still be a GM, and for sure it was a risky move.   Not unlike the risk WD took coaching that turd sandwhich team and look where that got him - well one little chance in LA but not exactly a great way to start your NHL career and likely done for good now.  
 

TG looks like he’s going to get some legs with his career...but then when he started things weren’t much better other then BB joining the fold then when WD was here.    Luckily for him, each year the teams roster has modestly/greatly improved - and so has our record go figure.   WD had a great moustache, but it wasn’t enough, and neither was Megna ha ha ha ha ha.  Or Chaput.  Or Gagne or Del Zotto. 
 

I was wary when we first hired Travis Green.   Knew enough about him growing up - but wasn’t sure if he was just another WD type as in rebuild fodder.   Turns out he’s actually pretty good.  Always gets the players going, and all the research on him supports that he truly belongs in the NHL.   Maybe he skipped the line a little not starting as an assistant coach at this level - but there’s a valid reason for it - hardest working coach in the AHL.   Once I read some stuff on that - and how forward thinking/cerebral he was, became much more comfortable with him becoming our head coach.   
 

Now (by outside Vancouver media sources), he’s viewed as having just as much potential as EP, BB and QHs has.   THN has been commenting on that the last couple of years including TG rookie coach season, his sophomore and his third.  Our ascension will clearly determine his as well - but if for some unforeseen event he does get fired soon (not going to happen), he won’t have to wait long to get another job on another team.    It grates me a little when some folks get overly critical of him.  Probably my favourite thing about him (other then getting a very good effort from his team every game),  is that he doesn’t use the “Keenan blender” or the blender after each loss or during the games ... and that he knows and speaks about how this is a young team and that confidence has a lot to do with our down cycles during a season.   Loved how he spoke during the Vegas series too.   That we weren’t here just to gain experience - but to win.   That’s the exact correct thing to say.   Even though - yes we were there to do exactly that (gain experience).   Maybe if Trotz was available I’d be on board with a coaching change.   Other then that I’m stoked we have him, just like I’m stoked we have EP.   Nice to have a brand new coach, that can grow and win with our brand new core. 

Edited November 28, 2020 by IBatch

[Alienhuggyflow]

On 10/13/2020 at 12:07 PM, CallAfterLife said:

About 5 years ago the conversations on these boards went as follows: The Canucks need scoring so Hunter Shinkaruk should be called up. The Canucks need a puck moving defenceman so Jordan Subban should be called up. The Canucks need a physicality so Alex Grenier should be called up. 

 

The Canucks literally have better versions of Shunkaruk, Subban and Grenier in their system right now. 

 

Hoglander is a better version of Shinkaruk. Hoglander may be shorter but his fitness level is incredible and he isn't afraid to play a gritty game and battle for pucks. His hands are arguably better than Shinkaruk's as well. Kole Lind isn't as flashy as Hoglander in terms of his puck skills but he's even feistier. That's not to say he doesn't have good puck skills though. Lind basically plays the way we all want Virtanen to play. Lind isn't as fast as Virtanen but he works to forecheck and hit. Lind also has better hockey IQ and can make plays with his teammates. Plus Lind has some major character and determination. He had a disappointing first season in Utica and put in the work in the off season to make himself a better player. Grenier was a big guy that never quite figured out how to use his size to dominate opponents. Lind may be a bit smaller but he isn't afraid to punch above his weight. 

 

The Canucks now have Rafferty and Juolevi. Subban was an elite power play QB but could never figure out how to defend and transition the puck up ice. Rafferty and Juolevi are both able to do this. Rafferty prefers to skate the puck up ice himself. Juolevi prefers to hang on to the puck and wait for a good pass to open up. These we're skills that Subban never quite managed. 

 

People are forgetting that just two years ago Juolevi was his team's best defenceman in the Liiga playoffs. He's struggled with injuries that have taken away from his mobility but hopefully now that he's healthy he can develop into a top 4 defenceman. I can easily see Juolevi developing into a Jonas Bordin type of defenceman. He may not always be a factor on the score sheet but he'll do a bunch of little things to ensure that his teammates do score. 

 

Hoglander, Lind, Rafferty and Juolevi are great prospect but now that the Canucks are winning there's no confidence in them. 

 

When the Canucks were losing the mentality around prospects was completely different. Fans just wanted them to be played for the sake of playing them in order to see something new. Now that the Canucks are winning and have a better set of prospects that have been properly developed suddenly they aren't good enough. Ridiculous. 

Our prospect pool was tops in 2018 pretty much unanimously now it hovers between 5-9. Considering all the kids that have graduated, that's pretty impressive. We've been spoiled lately but we still have 3 or 4 blue-chippers and elite talent everywhere but centre.

[IBatch]

On 11/29/2020 at 2:25 AM, Alienhuggyflow said:

Our prospect pool was tops in 2018 pretty much unanimously now it hovers between 5-9. Considering all the kids that have graduated, that's pretty impressive. We've been spoiled lately but we still have 3 or 4 blue-chippers and elite talent everywhere but centre.

I’m expecting a much lower ranking this year.  Like in the 9-14 range.    The highest ranked player we have is Podz at around 10.   Hogs is next up at around 30.   Doesn’t matter much as we’ve already created a new core and aside from a couple solid top four D and a top six winger we don’t need much more - nor can we afford much more under the cap constraints.   Once Podz, Hogs and one or two of OJ, Rafferty, Rathbone and Lind our pool will be nothing special again.   Not a big deal.   
 

Edit:  And nobody had our pool as “tops” - top three yes.  But the highest I remember was 2-3... that said in hindsight we probably should have been ranked tops. 

Edited November 30, 2020 by IBatch

[Devron]

Cause we don’t suck. We aren’t a bottom feeder anymore. Fans were grasping at straws cause everything sucked 5 years ago. Now there’s a mix of fans that are for win now and still want some growth before we are a win now team. Should be nothing to complain about 

[xereau]

This is how the NHL's championship teams have built their franchises since the cap came into effect:

 

1. A young core is identified, and paid accordingly.

 

2. Secondary assets will be cycled through the team ad nauseum to compliment this core, until real chemistry is developed.

 

3. The most valuable of these secondary assets can themselves replace a core piece, but what's more likely is that they are traded for:

 

a. a blue chipper, and

b. (usually) a draft pick

 

4. This process will reveal more prospects which will in turn be fluffed by the core to inflate their value, and flipped accordingly.

 

This process will end when this current core dissolves in a decade or so, when we drop back to the bottom of the barrel.

 

I won't go through endless examples from the various teams who've won since 2006, but if you do you'll see that this is the process by which franchises have extend their windows in the cap era. (eg. Chicago - think of players like Saad, Strome, Shaw. All good/decent players, but they're not what they were when they were lined up with Kane or Toews. Sometimes you trade a star too, Panarin for example, but this is the price you have to pay in the cap era).

Don't be surprised when guys like Hoglander and Podz have good or even great seasons here, and then get shipped out when they're due for a raise.

Edited December 1, 2020 by xereau

[CaptKirk888]

On 11/9/2020 at 5:06 AM, IBatch said:

Well said.   All of that and want to add that it’s not like JB has made it particularly difficult for prospects to make the team over the last 5-6 years....Megna, Chaput, Del Zotto, Gagne etc etc.    Now it’s LE, Sutter etc. Motte and AG made the forward group as fringe players ... and the skies the limit for the remaining folks, especially two slots so far still remaining open on the defense.   Do want to say it’s not easy to break in and actually make it - AND to the OP, it’s not like JB didn’t add during the early years, he did...just none of those guys stuck.  Vey, Bear, Goldobin, Granlund...WD’s Megna and Chaput ha ha.    Just because we think all the remaining high end guys are better then Shinkaruk etc doesn’t mean they are, or will do any better then those guys listed above who lasted a couple of seasons...you just never know. 

I do however think both OJ and Rafferty have excellent chances coming their way, and both have the chops to make it work.  

This reminds me of the sad sacks we had in the late 80s and late 90s, both transitional periods in the team's history. It happens every cycle, placeholders for a few seasons while we rebuild through the draft and free agency. 

[IBatch]

10 hours ago, CaptKirk888 said:

This reminds me of the sad sacks we had in the late 80s and late 90s, both transitional periods in the team's history. It happens every cycle, placeholders for a few seasons while we rebuild through the draft and free agency. 

Unfortunately I got to more games then ever in the mid- late 90’s, even early 2000’s.  Got to see such winners like Ciccone ha ha.    The goalies graveyard was unbelievable, it’s understandable why once Cloutier came and he was mostly better then all the rest the team just stuck with him.   Chanting for Back-Up Bob was fun.. I guess.   Potvin sucked, kind of expected more given what he accomplished in Toronto (think TO ended up with Cujo which bounced Felix)... there weren’t many players you could really get behind other then Gelinas, Babych, and Murzyn out of nostalgia... eventually they were all gone.   Sanderson ... well we had a few decent players that had a short stint with us .. Burke.   It was downright dreadful.    Peca and Walker were two guys I’d have loved see us keep ... imagine our WCE era would have had more teeth for sure.  

[IBatch]

15 hours ago, xereau said:

This is how the NHL's championship teams have built their franchises since the cap came into effect:

 

1. A young core is identified, and paid accordingly.

 

2. Secondary assets will be cycled through the team ad nauseum to compliment this core, until real chemistry is developed.

 

3. The most valuable of these secondary assets can themselves replace a core piece, but what's more likely is that they are traded for:

 

a. a blue chipper, and

b. (usually) a draft pick

 

4. This process will reveal more prospects which will in turn be fluffed by the core to inflate their value, and flipped accordingly.

 

This process will end when this current core dissolves in a decade or so, when we drop back to the bottom of the barrel.

 

I won't go through endless examples from the various teams who've won since 2006, but if you do you'll see that this is the process by which franchises have extend their windows in the cap era. (eg. Chicago - think of players like Saad, Strome, Shaw. All good/decent players, but they're not what they were when they were lined up with Kane or Toews. Sometimes you trade a star too, Panarin for example, but this is the price you have to pay in the cap era).

Don't be surprised when guys like Hoglander and Podz have good or even great seasons here, and then get shipped out when they're due for a raise.

Yep.   A team can only afford so many star players, and almost all the value occurs in getting them in decent deals.  TO won’t ever win given the type of money they doled out - but I guess you can never say never in the cap era either.  
 

CHI had Toews, Kane, Hossa, Sharp, Keith, Seabrook and Crawford.   7 guys. They also had Byfuglien (pre-stardom), Panarin (for sure a star but some at the time it was a product of Kane’s explosion...boy were they ever wrong he’s legitimately one of the best) and a pile of guys who came and they couldn’t afford to keep.   Tampa Bay is now currently going through the same process.    
 

We have Miller (he’s our Hossa), BB (Sharp), Horvat (Toews?), EP (??), QHs (Keith) and Demko (Crawford)...room for one more, maybe two depending on cap structure and that’s it for sure.   The rest will either have to earn a core spot which would allow us to make a trade, or end up getting recycled to help us plug holes and acquire rentals etc during our windows peak. 
 

Like to add two things.   The cap has created an internal level playing field (well with the exception of four teams, no surprise 3 of the final four were them last year ...)  It helps and it doesn’t help.   Gives hope for anyone who makes the playoffs (be honest - did anyone really think we’d play 17 games this year?  I did not.  Had doubts we’d get by MIN)....but it also makes it near impossible to win a cup these days.    Which goes to the other thing.   This might not be popular but I’m all for contraction.   There’s a reason the top guys used to mostly score 100 points and it’s not just better goaltending.   Imagine if all the fourth lines were gone and we went back to 5-6 team divisions.   The quality of players would go way up and teams wouldn’t have to go through such dreadful down cycles.

 

I still love NHL hockey, it’s incredible.  But don’t like that half the teams never see playoff action, and that parity doesn’t allow for dynasty’s or serious rivalries anymore.   The Hate factor had gone way way down.  Hard to create a lot of hate when you don’t have two great teams going hammer and tong against each other the way it used to be.   COL-DET.... MTL-Boston,  EDM-CAL don’t really even exist anymore.  Even PHI-PIT has cooled way off.  
 

On one hand it gives 16 teams hope each year .... on the other hand averaging 3 cups a century is bull-crap in the biggest pile of bull-crap a model can create.   
 

On to the second thing.   I believe the league is on to something with the way they did the playoffs this year, allowing a preliminary round and possibly even how they did the other seeding.   MTL was the last team in - and knocked out PIT...sure PIT fans aren’t happy about it but it made for a good story.    Playoff revenue fuels the coffers and the NHL engine each year ... why not keep this format?  
 

Nobody wants to wait 6-10 years between cycles to see playoff hockey. That’s what happens these days to a lot of teams.   We missed only four, thankfully from some excellent drafting , and look at how many complaints we’ve had on the way.... Take the top six teams from each conference and give them an automatic by.   Then take the next four teams and let them battle it out for the other two spots.  Not quite the same ...  But it sure would make things more exciting, especially with parity.   Maybe even extend it to the next 8 teams meaning only two teams per conference don’t make it.   Just spit balling but do think the league needs to consider this for a variety of reasons.   Fans don’t deserve a decade without playoff hockey ever.   And the league would make a lot more revenue. 
 

Edit:  Go back to 80 or even 78 games to allow for this “round robin” or fifth round or whatever you want to call it...one series of five games.  
 

Edit:  It would also be great experience for rebuilding teams ... guys like Hall and even our very own Horvat wouldn’t have to wait so freaking long to get in the game. 

Edited December 1, 2020 by IBatch