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Rank our top 4 Dmen

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46 minutes ago, Googlie said:

Soon to be supplanted by Rafferty. 

In Utica, Juolevi quarterbacked the PP1 at the beginning, but after his injury absence, Rafferty took over, and man, was he impressive. OJ never won his spot back and was relegated to the 2nd unit. There are some Rafferty hilite clips posted in the Comets thread that are worth viewing.   Almost as dynamic as Hughes.  If he gets into games, I hope Green gives him a look, but I am not holding my breath - look how long it took for him to realize QH was infinitely superior to AE on PP1

I wonder how it factors into the decision making of who plays. OJ drafted 5th overall. Rafferty undrafted. 

What if Rafferty outplays OJ j in camp. 

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35 minutes ago, erkayloomeh said:

I wonder how it factors into the decision making of who plays. OJ drafted 5th overall. Rafferty undrafted. 

What if Rafferty outplays OJ j in camp. 

I'd actually like to see them both in the final 6. Either sheltered minutes together, or else Rafferty with Edler and Juolevi with Schmidt leaving Hughes and Myers as the minute munching pair (or else swap Schmidt/Myers if the Hughes-Schmidt dynamic is too hard to pass up.  Benn can play either side so is the perfect #7

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On October 14, 2020 at 8:35 AM, DarkIndianRises said:

Just curious - why do you have Rathbone ranked so low?

Just because he has not played any pro games..Trust me I think he will move to top 4 D man in 18 months...

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2 minutes ago, wildcam said:

Just because he has not played any pro games..Trust me I think he will move to top 4 D man in 18 months...

I doubt it.  We already have two legit 1st pairing D on the team.  But competition is always good.

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On 10/13/2020 at 10:03 PM, -AJ- said:

I think Edler is probably a hair better than Schmidt in every category right now, but that could change as fast as this upcoming year, with Edler starting to get older at 34 years of age in comparison to Schmidt, who's five years younger. Obviously Myers is #4 even though he makes a lot of mistakes. Hughes is still #1 as well obviously.

Edler was a tale of two seasons last year.  He started off just amazingly, and then tanked badly after Christmas.

 

I don’t think you can call him our 2nd best D anymore.  He just can’t be ridden like a rented mule in all the hard minutes anymore.  Age and speed has caught up with him.  Schmidt has him beat by a long shot.

 

If we don’t end up with a really reliable bottom pairing, I kind of despair about how many games Edler can play before getting hurt and how effective he will be in those games he IS in.

 

He is a warrior that has gotten a lot of unfair criticism here for years, but he just has to have his minutes managed now.  We shouldn’t be asking for him to be more than a high end 3rd pairing guy who can move up in case of injuries.  

 

The OEL trade would have been great in that it would have put Edler right where he should be and can be most effective. I happily play Edler 15 minutes a game and think he can feast on lesser opposition still.  Maybe partnering with Schmidt will help him out as he will have a partner who can transport the puck for him.... much like Hughes helped Tanev have a successful year last year.

 

 

Edited by Provost
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53 minutes ago, Provost said:

Edler was a tale of two seasons last year.  He started off just amazingly, and then tanked badly after Christmas.

 

I don’t think you can call him our 2nd best D anymore.  He just can’t be ridden like a rented mule in all the hard minutes anymore.  Age and speed has caught up with him.  Schmidt has him beat by a long shot.

 

If we don’t end up with a really reliable bottom pairing, I kind of despair about how many games Edler can play before getting hurt and how effective he will be in those games he IS in.

 

He is a warrior that has gotten a lot of unfair criticism here for years, but he just has to have his minutes managed now.  We should be asking for him to be more than a high end 3rd pairing guy who can move up in case of injuries.  

 

The OEL trade would have been great in that it would have put Edler right where he should be and can be most effective. I happily play Edler 15 minutes a game and think he can feast on lesser opposition still.  Maybe partnering with Schmidt will help him out as he will have a partner who can transport the puck for him.... much like Hughes helped Tanev have a successful year last year.

 

 

If Edler and Myers end up our bottom pairing watch out, our defense would out rival the peak Sedin era ones.   I agree that if Edler gets another contract that’s where he’s ideally suited.   OJ has a lot to prove to bump him out, as does Rafferty even with Benn as the bottom guy.   Nothing would make me happier if this happens. 

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19 minutes ago, IBatch said:

If Edler and Myers end up our bottom pairing watch out, our defense would out rival the peak Sedin era ones.   I agree that if Edler gets another contract that’s where he’s ideally suited.   OJ has a lot to prove to bump him out, as does Rafferty even with Benn as the bottom guy.   Nothing would make me happier if this happens. 

Yes, he would make an excellent 3rd pairing guy.  23 minutes a night as a match up and PK guy for him is asking for a lot of trouble.  Those are hard minutes.

 

A bottom pairing of Juolevi-Benn isn’t going to take a lot of minutes and is going to be really sheltered.  That doesn’t help reduce Edler’s minutes.

 

It is hard not to call those guys a downgrade from Stecher and Fantenberg.  Benn could hardly crack the roster last year and now we are slotting him in as the #5 with some people saying our D is upgraded?  That doesn’t make sense.

 

If we could find (And afford) another top 4D, it would entirely change our outlook for next season.

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33 minutes ago, Provost said:

Yes, he would make an excellent 3rd pairing guy.  23 minutes a night as a match up and PK guy for him is asking for a lot of trouble.  Those are hard minutes.

 

A bottom pairing of Juolevi-Benn isn’t going to take a lot of minutes and is going to be really sheltered.  That doesn’t help reduce Edler’s minutes.

 

It is hard not to call those guys a downgrade from Stecher and Fantenberg.  Benn could hardly crack the roster last year and now we are slotting him in as the #5 with some people saying our D is upgraded?  That doesn’t make sense.

 

If we could find (And afford) another top 4D, it would entirely change our outlook for next season.

It will be interesting to see how things go no doubt, Benns job at this point is back-up, he did admirably when called upon when Myers went down,  and we need someone to push Rafferty on the right side.   I’m not that worried about OJ.   He’s right at the age Edler was when he pushed into the lineup, well close anyways and would be surprised if he needs a lot of sheltering.  With the ED looming and Covid, and a lot of contracts shedding now is the perfect time to see what we have in these guys.   Button says Rafferty is NHL ready now ... 

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3 minutes ago, IBatch said:

It will be interesting to see how things go no doubt, Benns job at this point is back-up, he did admirably when called upon when Myers went down,  and we need someone to push Rafferty on the right side.   I’m not that worried about OJ.   He’s right at the age Edler was when he pushed into the lineup, well close anyways and would be surprised if he needs a lot of sheltering.  With the ED looming and Covid, and a lot of contracts shedding now is the perfect time to see what we have in these guys.   Button says Rafferty is NHL ready now ... 

Well you are a lot more optimistic than I am.

Between Juolevi and Rafferty they have a sum total of under 33 minutes of career NHL ice time combined... a very sheltered 33 minutes.

 

They are (currently) replacing Very experienced NHL players in Stecher and Fantenberg.  Heck Stecher has almost beaten their career ice time in a single one of his games.  Even with the best shot suppression numbers on the team and years of experience, Stecher saw really limited minutes This year when our D was healthy.

 

To expect completely untested rookies to be more exposed seems really unlikely to me.

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In all fairness to Rafferty (and I saw a lot of his Utica games) he dominated the AHL in a way that Hughes never dominated the College leagues (although QH did perform well for the US team). Hughes stepped right in to the Canucks line up, and I see no reason why Rafferty can't do the same.  He is older, stronger, and has been playing against men for some time now.   Granted his Quinnipiac stats in his last year there aren't as sexy as Hughes at Michigan (4 + 20 vs 5 + 28), but are still decent.

 

I think he will surprise a lot of fans who haven't seen him in action much

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On 10/14/2020 at 8:06 AM, Kobayashi Maru said:

Top four and top seven at the beginning of the next season:

 

Hughes

Schmidt

Edler

Myers

______________

 

Joulevi

Rafferty  Benn

Benn  Rafferty

 

For me. Otherwise agree completely.

Edited by Vanuckles
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2 hours ago, Provost said:

Well you are a lot more optimistic than I am.

Between Juolevi and Rafferty they have a sum total of under 33 minutes of career NHL ice time combined... a very sheltered 33 minutes.

 

They are (currently) replacing Very experienced NHL players in Stecher and Fantenberg.  Heck Stecher has almost beaten their career ice time in a single one of his games.  Even with the best shot suppression numbers on the team and years of experience, Stecher saw really limited minutes This year when our D was healthy.

 

To expect completely untested rookies to be more exposed seems really unlikely to me.

I see OJ getting his shot.   Trust Buttons views but doubt TG goes with two rookies and Benn will be there for one of the two to push him out.   Injuries will occur too, so it’s almost inevitable both will end up in the lineup paired separately though unless we sign one more guy (close to or league minimum deal like Fanta last season)...the timing is right to try them out and sink or swim.   Rafferty is a wild card, I’m not worried about OJ much (anymore),  think he will do fine.    The only real work to do this year if add a year to Benns deal so he can be exposed and not Myers.   That would be a huge hole for us that we’d have to again try to fill, and doubt anything will be available next year.   Petry and Brodin are already re-upped and CAR is already working in Hamilton. 
We don’t have the cap space,  and need Roussel and Beagle to protect BB and other guys on contract past this season.   Sutter could be bought out but I hate buyouts.   No cap to do anything else major.    With Covid the entire season is up in the air anyways,  if there ever was a time to see what we have now is it.

 

Edit:  Shot suppression is one thing, but our D with the exception of Myers and QHs couldn’t skate it out or into the other zone if their life’s depended on it last year and especially against Vegas ... Fanta 30/9 was particularly bad at this.   Edler was 20/18. Ugh.   Having some smooth skating highly skilled passing guys would help change the look.   And lower the shots by skating it out of the zone cleanly which is a form of shot suppression in itself.   
 

Buttons felt Rafferty could play in the league last season - and that will be a second pairing guy.   Imagine if he did and excelled at it, after Seattle picked him....not a great look.  

Edited by IBatch

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4 hours ago, Provost said:

Edler was a tale of two seasons last year.  He started off just amazingly, and then tanked badly after Christmas.

 

I don’t think you can call him our 2nd best D anymore.  He just can’t be ridden like a rented mule in all the hard minutes anymore.  Age and speed has caught up with him.  Schmidt has him beat by a long shot.

 

If we don’t end up with a really reliable bottom pairing, I kind of despair about how many games Edler can play before getting hurt and how effective he will be in those games he IS in.

 

He is a warrior that has gotten a lot of unfair criticism here for years, but he just has to have his minutes managed now.  We shouldn’t be asking for him to be more than a high end 3rd pairing guy who can move up in case of injuries.  

 

The OEL trade would have been great in that it would have put Edler right where he should be and can be most effective. I happily play Edler 15 minutes a game and think he can feast on lesser opposition still.  Maybe partnering with Schmidt will help him out as he will have a partner who can transport the puck for him.... much like Hughes helped Tanev have a successful year last year.

 

 

He "dipped" around Christmas because Hughes started taking over his minutes. Hughes would take over most NHL defensemen's minutes. I'd happily put Edler with Schmidt in a shutdown role next season. They fit each other very well on paper. And I think that's what Green will do.

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55 minutes ago, Vanuckles said:

He "dipped" around Christmas because Hughes started taking over his minutes. Hughes would take over most NHL defensemen's minutes. I'd happily put Edler with Schmidt in a shutdown role next season. They fit each other very well on paper. And I think that's what Green will do.

Objectively not true... it wasn’t reduced minutes at all, and has nothing to do with any point production.

 

It was all his metrics went in the tank.  

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1 hour ago, Provost said:

Objectively not true... it wasn’t reduced minutes at all, and has nothing to do with any point production.

 

It was all his metrics went in the tank.  

Where did you find their time on ice totals on a per game basis? And where did you find how much PP time they each got on a per game basis? Because I can't find that anywhere. If memory serves correctly I remember Edler playing on the PP until just before Christmas or around that time and then Hughes took it over full time. I'd be interested in the mins on a per game basis that you found and are referring to. I try to use natural stat trick whenever I need to, and I can pull the game by game ice time and PP time per player but it takes a while, and there's no way anybody did that so I could stand to look at a report, which I assume you used.

Edited by Vanuckles

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15 minutes ago, Vanuckles said:

Where did you find their time on ice totals on a per game basis? And where did you find how much PP time they each got on a per game basis? Because I can't find that anywhere. If memory serves correctly I remember Edler playing on the PP until just before Christmas or around that time and then Hughes took it over full time. I'd be interested in the mins on a per game basis that you found and are referring to. I try to use natural stat trick whenever I need to, and I can pull the game by game ice time and PP time per player but it takes a while, and there's no way anybody did that so I could stand to look at a report, which I assume you used.

Smarmy post entirely ignoring my point.

 

His decline wasn’t due to reduced minutes... it was that all his metrics got worse.  A lot worse.  It had nothing to do with losing his spot on the PP as it wasn’t his offence declining that was the issue.


PS. hockey reference gives you splits where you can compare month by month.

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On 10/13/2020 at 10:03 PM, -AJ- said:

I think Edler is probably a hair better than Schmidt in every category right now, but that could change as fast as this upcoming year, with Edler starting to get older at 34 years of age in comparison to Schmidt, who's five years younger. Obviously Myers is #4 even though he makes a lot of mistakes. Hughes is still #1 as well obviously.

Edler is probably 4th. I'd take Hughes, Schmidt and Meyers over Edler.

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On 10/13/2020 at 10:11 PM, King Heffy said:

Edler brings a lot more physicality and shot blocking.  I like both guys, but Edler is a little bit ahead for me still thanks to his outstanding playoff performance.  Playoff Edler is a much better player than regular season Edler.

Schmidt was the best defender for Vegas aside from Theodore. They beat our team and we couldn't even enter their zone the last 3 games of the series. Replace him with Edler and I think Canucks would win that series because Edler is way too slow moving the puck or passing. 

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