BigTramFan Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 (edited) This trade assumes that OTT don't want to be spending too much actual salary and that they are disappointed with the performance of White (23 pts last season). He is young (23 years) and may improve, but OTT would be keen to swap his $4.75m (5 years remaining) contract for a young center on a much better contract moving forward. This trade also assumes that Ferland is not going on LTIR. He says he is healthy and he wants to play. If this is the case, then VAN cannot afford to fit both Virtanen (~3m) and Gaudette (~1.5m) on our roster, and we risk losing someone like Gaudette for virtually nothing since other GMs are unlikely to trade a fair return for Gaudette under current circumstances. Buying out Sutter in the second buyout window is one way to clear enough cap to keep both Gaudette and Virtanen on our roster, but it pushes cap into next season which is problematic as we need all the space we can muster to resign our RFA stars. I propose the following trade... To VAN: Colin White (+ perhaps late round pick) To OTT: Eriksson + Gaudette OTT does this because Gaudette (33 pts last season) has outperformed White and they can sign Gaudette for approx $1.5m x 2 years. OTT have to take on Loui's contract, but over the next 2 seasons they actually save $0.75m in total salary paid, whilst filling two roster spots. And for these savings they get to upgrade to Gaudette and potentially sign him to a more team friendly contract after 2 years. For OTT... 2020/21: White salary = $4m.....compared to AG + LE salary = $2.5m 2021/22: White salary = $4.75m.....compared to AG + LE salary = $5.5m OTT could choose to buy out White themselves, but if they do that they walk away completely from a potential top 6 center. This way they get to hold on to Gaudette. VAN does this because they are probably losing Gaudette anyway, so they may as well make a move that clears more cap space now and next season. They can buy out White this year in the second buyout window as he meets the $4m minimum threshold. White's buyout cap hit is only $1.57m. This "trade and buyout" plan would give VAN over $5m in cap space and will allow us to take advantage of the current situation of good UFAs that are getting desperate to find a team (e.g. Dadanov 2m, Soderberg 1.7m, Ceci 1.3m). If OTT likes White they could even resign him on a new contract and he doesn't even need to pack his bags. Thoughts? Roster at <81m including all buyouts, recapture and overages: Miller Pettersson Boeser Pearson Horvat Dadanov Soderberg Sutter Virtanen Motte Beagle MacEwen (Ferland) Hughes Schmidt Edler Myers Juolevi Ceci (Benn) Holtby, Demko Waived: Baer, Roussel Edited October 14, 2020 by BigTramFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86Viking Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 We need to send a bit of a veteran F to Ottawa to provide some leadership. Pearson could net us a draft pick without retention, Sutter or Roussel would require us to add a sweetener but I would consider it to give us a bit of flexibility Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86Viking Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 Rights to Virtanen and Pearson for rights to Tierney and 2022 3rd round pick. We get a #3C who is 26, gives us the ability to slide Gaudette to RW, maybe in the top 6? Or use him as a sweetener to maybe move a contract out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTramFan Posted October 14, 2020 Author Share Posted October 14, 2020 39 minutes ago, Canuckster86 said: Rights to Virtanen and Pearson for rights to Tierney and 2022 3rd round pick. We get a #3C who is 26, gives us the ability to slide Gaudette to RW, maybe in the top 6? Or use him as a sweetener to maybe move a contract out? I would be trying to ADD scoring to our roster, since we have lost Toffoli now. If we send Pearson + Virt to another team, our scoring takes a huge hit. No thanks 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86Viking Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 5 minutes ago, BigTramFan said: I would be trying to ADD scoring to our roster, since we have lost Toffoli now. If we send Pearson + Virt to another team, our scoring takes a huge hit. No thanks Technically this allows us to ADD scoring. Look at the FA still available and with the flat cap your able to sign players for far less than in a normal year. If we are clearing $ we can go spend it on a 1yr cheap contract on a player. We also have a ton of F still signed, so we should be trying to move some out, it 1 clears cap space but 2 also makes us have some room to improve. Will it likely cost us pieces to move out bad contracts, yes! But JB put us in this spot and if we can sign a decent FA or trade I think we should really consider giving up futures to clear cap room. Now that we have Schmidt, I would try to attach OJ to a deal. He should hold some value for a lower tier team, can't dump LE or anything but might get out from Roussel or Sutter/Sven/Benn combo without having to give Hog or Pod or a 1st Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTramFan Posted October 14, 2020 Author Share Posted October 14, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Canuckster86 said: Technically this allows us to ADD scoring. Look at the FA still available and with the flat cap your able to sign players for far less than in a normal year. If we are clearing $ we can go spend it on a 1yr cheap contract on a player. We also have a ton of F still signed, so we should be trying to move some out, it 1 clears cap space but 2 also makes us have some room to improve. Will it likely cost us pieces to move out bad contracts, yes! But JB put us in this spot and if we can sign a decent FA or trade I think we should really consider giving up futures to clear cap room. Now that we have Schmidt, I would try to attach OJ to a deal. He should hold some value for a lower tier team, can't dump LE or anything but might get out from Roussel or Sutter/Sven/Benn combo without having to give Hog or Pod or a 1st We send out Pearson (45 pts) and Virtanen (36 pts). And bring in Tierney (37 pts.) at 3C when we already have Sutter and Gaudette? Tierney has arbitration like Virtanen and I expect their cap hits to be similar. So we will only end up with about $2.75m in cap space by clearing out Pearson in the deal, and we need to find a 45 pt player for $2.75m just to fill the gap Pearson leaves. There will be no ADDing to scoring if that's the plan. Just doesn't make sense to me... Edited October 14, 2020 by BigTramFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86Viking Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 3 minutes ago, BigTramFan said: We send out Pearson (45 pts) and Virtanen (36 pts). And bring in Tierney (37 pts.) at 3C when we already have Sutter and Gaudette? Tierney has arbitration like Virtanen and I expect their cap hits to be similar. So we will only end up with about $2.75m in cap space by clearing out Pearson in the deal, and we need to find a 45 pt player for $2.75m just to fill the gap Pearson leaves. There will be no ADDing to scoring if that's the plan. Just doesn't make sense to me... Sutter has 1 yr left, he at worst is gone next off season...so finding a replacement long term aint a bad thing...you do have to look at the future when making deals for a team. The biggest thing is Virtanen is gonna get 2.5m or so, yet our coach uses him like a fringe 3rd liner. Yes, clearing cap space is key...it also comes at a cost this off season in a cap world! Pearson had a decent year, he is 1yr from being a UFA and i can't see us giving him term on his next deal if the Canucks are as high on Pod and Hog as they seem to be. As for Gaudette, just because we have Tierney doesn't mean Gaudette can't switch over the RW...it is far easier for a C to make the move to wing then to try and have a wing go to C. Also, 1 injury happens and you have a C on your roster. C depth is key and I hope Gaud can improve his game at that position but he has other skills that can make him a useful NHL player on the wing if need be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTramFan Posted October 14, 2020 Author Share Posted October 14, 2020 Just now, Canuckster86 said: Sutter has 1 yr left, he at worst is gone next off season...so finding a replacement long term aint a bad thing...you do have to look at the future when making deals for a team. The biggest thing is Virtanen is gonna get 2.5m or so, yet our coach uses him like a fringe 3rd liner. Yes, clearing cap space is key...it also comes at a cost this off season in a cap world! Pearson had a decent year, he is 1yr from being a UFA and i can't see us giving him term on his next deal if the Canucks are as high on Pod and Hog as they seem to be. As for Gaudette, just because we have Tierney doesn't mean Gaudette can't switch over the RW...it is far easier for a C to make the move to wing then to try and have a wing go to C. Also, 1 injury happens and you have a C on your roster. C depth is key and I hope Gaud can improve his game at that position but he has other skills that can make him a useful NHL player on the wing if need be. My proposal and your counter proposal are completely different approaches. I know which one I prefer for this season and the future. The roster for my proposal which also clears $5m in additional cap space for 2021/22 season: Miller Pettersson Boeser Pearson Horvat Dadanov Soderberg Sutter Virtanen Motte Beagle MacEwen (Ferland) Hughes Schmidt Edler Myers Juolevi Ceci (Benn) Holtby, Demko The possible roster from your counter proposal: Miller Pettersson Boeser Dadanov Horvat Gaudette Roussel Tierney Sutter Motte Beagle MacEwen (Ferland) Hughes Schmidt Edler Myers Juolevi Benn (Rafferty) Holtby, Demko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86Viking Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 If you think Gaudette is all that is needed to dump LE the deal would have been done days, weeks, months ago. basically, agree to disagree...cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_314 Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 My main issues are that you assume that Ferland is ready to play but you stick him on the bench when he'd cost $3.5 million in cap, and you treat waiving Roussel like it's a magic wand where his contract simply goes away. If we send him to the minors there's only $500k in savings, and waiving Sven only saves $1.2 million. I get that Sven's done in Vancouver but if Ferland's healthy he's playing and so is Roussel (there's no benefit to waiving him). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTramFan Posted October 14, 2020 Author Share Posted October 14, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Phil_314 said: My main issues are that you assume that Ferland is ready to play but you stick him on the bench when he'd cost $3.5 million in cap, and you treat waiving Roussel like it's a magic wand where his contract simply goes away. If we send him to the minors there's only $500k in savings, and waiving Sven only saves $1.2 million. I get that Sven's done in Vancouver but if Ferland's healthy he's playing and so is Roussel (there's no benefit to waiving him). Thanks for the feedback. The more I think about this proposal, the more I can't see why OTT would refuse, they net the better player and they eliminate an onerous long term contract. I didn't put too much thought into the make up of the lines (below is a rethink of how I would likely do the forwards for that roster, which is more an armchair coach job, not for the armchair GM). But if we tried to bolster scoring and size by signing 2 UFA forwards (my examples were Dadanov + Soderberg) then we have 15 forwards. To make the roster fit under the cap we would need to waive 2 of them. My choices would be Baer and Roussel. Waiving these guys would save us $1.075m apiece in cap hit (not sure why you say Roussel only saves $500k cap if waived). A rethink on my F lines would be: Miller Pettersson Boeser Pearson Horvat Dadanov Ferland Soderberg Virtanen Motte Beagle MacEwen (Sutter) Edited October 14, 2020 by BigTramFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_314 Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 (edited) 56 minutes ago, BigTramFan said: Thanks for the feedback. The more I think about this proposal, the more I can't see why OTT would refuse, they net the better player and they eliminate an onerous long term contract. I didn't put too much thought into the make up of the lines (below is a rethink of how I would likely do the forwards for that roster, which is more an armchair coach job, not for the armchair GM). But if we tried to bolster scoring and size by signing 2 UFA forwards (my examples were Dadanov + Soderberg) then we have 15 forwards. To make the roster fit under the cap we would need to waive 2 of them. My choices would be Baer and Roussel. Waiving these guys would save us $1.075m apiece in cap hit (not sure why you say Roussel only saves $500k cap if waived). A rethink on my F lines would be: Miller Pettersson Boeser Pearson Horvat Dadanov Ferland Soderberg Virtanen Motte Beagle MacEwen (Sutter) https://www.capfriendly.com/players/antoine-roussel There's a table in the link above, really useful resource. If he gets waived and clears, his salary in the minors is still $2.5 million. Edited October 14, 2020 by Phil_314 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kloubek Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 Didn't realize Soderberg was a UFA. He would be a great fit if we could lose one of sutter/beags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTramFan Posted October 14, 2020 Author Share Posted October 14, 2020 28 minutes ago, Phil_314 said: https://www.capfriendly.com/players/antoine-roussel There's a table in the link above, really useful resource. If he gets waived and clears, his salary in the minors is still $2.5 million. Oh you were talking about salary? I was talking about cap hit. Both Baer and Roussel will reduce our cap hit by $1.075m if they are waived. I don't really care about salary! (the ownership at OTT does though, which is why they should do the deal in the OP with us) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTramFan Posted October 14, 2020 Author Share Posted October 14, 2020 19 minutes ago, kloubek said: Didn't realize Soderberg was a UFA. He would be a great fit if we could lose one of sutter/beags. Yeah agreed. I also thought if the deal was done with OTT, then we lose Gaudette as our center depth. Soderberg, Beagle and Sutter provides excellent depth for the bottom 6 center positions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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